Professional Cycling For the Fans - Will it be ironic if LA shows up to the tour now that his team is going to win?

Ironies aside, I guess LA is on a plane right now for France to make the time trial.
http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/07/28/0728tourlance.html
I can only imagine the "goodies" he's bringing for the boys...

I get your point here, but what are we thinking, that Lance used some magic-EPO-from-the-future that NO amount of rigorous scientific testing can detect even on the slightest tiniest level? I mean, we can map the human genome but can't find ANY illegal substances in his regularly-tested and re-tested blood? Maybe he's just that good? Stranger things have happened, am I right?
Yes, that, or something like it, is what we are thinking.

Remember, Ullrich also always "tested clean". He only got busted because of the puerto thing.
And remember Rumsas and the carload of growth hormones his wife was driving? He always tested clean too.
Tyler only got busted because they finally came up with a test for his doping method of choice.
And Floyd also seems to have made some kind of mistake in terms of getting the testosterone ratios off. Maybe he fell asleep with the patch on and left it on too long. Anyway, until then, he also always tested clean.
I think Vino was assuming he wouldn't win the stage and so wouldn't get tested. Regardless, until this year, he also always tested clean.
And note that Ras never tested positive either.

All these guys get away with it, why not Lance?

There is always autologous blood doping, which is impossible to detect.
There are all of the products for which there are masking agents.
There is Lance's association with Dr. Ferrari (Vino's doctor).

Guilt by association. nice. How many of us would be in jail if THAT was the law.

Guilt by association. nice. How many of us would be in jail if THAT was the law.
That's not the law because the standard for putting someone in jail is "beyond any reasonable doubt". The legal system is stacked against the chance of wrongly convicting someone ("better to free 100 guilty men than imprison one innocent man").

That is not a reasonable standard to use when you're trying to determine how many people are actually guilty.

Then, once you use a reasonable standard to estimate how many cyclists in the peloton are doping (see post #52), then consider the ramifications, the only logical conclusion is that almost all of them, if not all of them, must be doping.

Do you really think Levi was clean today? Cadel? :rolleyes:

Yes, that, or something like it, is what we are thinking.

Remember, Ullrich also always "tested clean". He only got busted because of the puerto thing.
And remember Rumsas and the carload of growth hormones his wife was driving? He always tested clean too.
Tyler only got busted because they finally came up with a test for his doping method of choice.
And Floyd also seems to have made some kind of mistake in terms of getting the testosterone ratios off. Maybe he fell asleep with the patch on and left it on too long. Anyway, until then, he also always tested clean.
I think Vino was assuming he wouldn't win the stage and so wouldn't get tested. Regardless, until this year, he also always tested clean.
And note that Ras never tested positive either.

All these guys get away with it, why not Lance?

There is always autologous blood doping, which is impossible to detect.
There are all of the products for which there are masking agents.
There is Lance's association with Dr. Ferrari (Vino's doctor).

+ 1. Not to mention that almost all of his closest competitors over is seven years are now convicted dopers. Almost all the guys that have finished on the podium next to Lance over his amazing 7 year run are dopers. How can even the biggest Lance fan not suspect that he was doping?

This thread is:
http://www.low-iq.ch/images/Home_low.gif

Where is the Irony in all this?

I love the logic. All of the guys Lance beat have been caught doping. Lance passed all of his tests. Adding this evidence together: Lance was doping.

So, if I understand the "logic", if Lance had failed test after test, he would be a doper. Because he passed thousands of tests during his career, and did not fail even one, he is a doper.

Is this sort of "logic" a reflection on American schools, or does it reflect a genetic problem afflicting the brains of America's young folks?

I love the logic. All of the guys Lance beat have been caught doping. Lance passed all of his tests. Adding this evidence together: Lance was doping.

So, if I understand the "logic", if Lance had failed test after test, he would be a doper. Because he passed thousands of tests during his career, and did not fail even one, he is a doper.

Is this sort of "logic" a reflection on American schools, or does it reflect a genetic problem afflicting the brains of America's young folks?
Many of the guys that Lance beat, like Ullrich, Basso, Beloki, and Rumsas (who failed a drug test, but only a year after Lance beat him), who have been caught doping (well Beloki was in Puerto but has been "cleared") also passed all of their tests.

And the ones that Lance beat who finally didn't pass one test, passed countless tests before that. Guys like Tyler (Blood doping), Floyd (testosterone), Heras (EPO), Pantani (60% hematocrit), etc.

Can you get your head around that, or not?

The ability to pass a test, or even thousands of tests, says nothing about whether a rider is a doper. It certainly says nothing about whether he is using undetectable methods like autologous blood doping, growth hormones (like the ones found in Rumsas' wife's car) or even EPO and homologous blood doping before they were detectable.

Not to mention that EPO has been found in Lance's blood when it was tested years later once a test for it became available.

Not to mention his association with Ferrari.

Not to mention his association with Ferrari.
Or how he went after Simeoni for no other reason than to carry out a vendetta against him for speaking out against doping in the sport.

He was in the car today.

If you people would have gone on RAGBRAI you would have known he said he was leaving (LOL). Lance is becoming an "untouchable" but the French have not figured that out yet.

Good Lord has this thread given me a headache. I am not a huge fan of Lance the human being, but I did enjoy watching him ride the TdF. Perhaps it was a bit of nationalistic pride dating back to when I watched LeMond win back in the day.

All of the Sherolck Holmeses in here just boggle my mind. I am as tired of all of the doping nonsense as everyone else in here. What does a rider have to do to be clean in all of your eyes...not finish the tour?, ride it at a pace where even you can keep up with him? Now do I have suspicions of Lance being a doper? Yes I do. My suspicions, however are just that, and do not give me any grounds for putting up a decent argument for or against his doping. Until I see documented PROOF that he was doping, I will continue to harbour the belief (perhaps naively so) that he was riding clean. At this stage of things, he has alot more to lose than just his yellow jerseys should he be found out, all of his credibility would be shot, making him a fraud and putting a serious hurt on his foundation....too much to lose IMHO.

In the grand scheme of things, I have bigger things in my life about which to worry. In cycling I am still trying to figure out how to make myself even a little bit faster so kids on BMX bikes don't drop me:D.

I realise that we all have our own opinions, but this browbeating and squabbling makes alot of you sound like snivelling whiners, with no CONCRETE evidence to back up your positions. I would surely hope that if I were ever to get myself into trouble, that none of you would be sitting on the jury.

Vive Le Tour....I still love it

Cheers,

Brian

Lance is on book tour :D


"Lance was a role model for me. I read his book in the hospital when I was recovering," said Contador about the seven-time winner and part owner of the Discovery squad, who was in Paris to congratulate this year's winner.

There is no way in the frkn world Armstrong comes within a 1000 miles of France. The man is not an idiot.

bump...hehehe:p:p