Training & Nutrition - To Run or Not to Run???

I get the chance to ride around 3 times a week, typically 20 mile rides at a good pace. Lots of hills. I am wanting to do a little more by maybe doing two additional days of running(around 4miles per run) Is this going to help me get better on the bike or not. Thanks in advance.

Don't think so. People who bike fast are not necessarily fast runners or vice versa, because you're working different muscle groups. But I know that I can get my heart rate up a lot easier when I'm running, which can be good as far as building endurance goes. I would personally suggest it, just because it can make for a shorter but just as intense workout as cycling.

What are you goals? If it's to become a faster cyclist, concentrate on more riding. If it's to get greater overall fitness, run per your schedule. Running is a great way to maintain cadio fitness when you can't ride, like over the winter, but it doesn't replace training time on the bike

Here is the thing. I am not trying to replace running with bike riding. I am wondering if running 2 times a week plus my regular 3 times a week on the bike will improve my cycling. I have a track within a couple of hundred yards of my front door. It is easier to get a good cardio workout running fairly hard for 30-45 min than gearing up and going out on a ride. It makes sense that my lungs would benefit, therefore helping my cycling. Any other opinions?

I've tried it, didn't make me faster.

In my case, my suspicion is that it depleted glycogen stores, and whatever muscles used in common that I was slower on ride days. And didn't stay at it long enough to see if there was a cycling performance benefit if I skipped the runs for a week. If you want to get faster on the bike, ride easy on recovery days. Planning to mix it in a lot more this year as cross training in the off season, when weather's bad and days are short, and see what it does for me next year.

I also supplement riding with running. I can't get out for as many long rides as I'd like during the week, but find that I can get a 30-45 minute run in 3 or 4 times per week. I find that my endurance is much improved - don't know that it does much for speed, but overall I feel in better shape.

DannoXYZ or any other training authorities have any other thoughts. Thanks.

well, running will most definetly increase your endurance and overall fitness level. this in turn will help make you a better rider. faster, stronger....who knows, but i speak from experience when i say it will help. later.

Here is the thing. I am not trying to replace running with bike riding. I am wondering if running 2 times a week plus my regular 3 times a week on the bike will improve my cycling. I have a track within a couple of hundred yards of my front door. It is easier to get a good cardio workout running fairly hard for 30-45 min than gearing up and going out on a ride. It makes sense that my lungs would benefit, therefore helping my cycling. Any other opinions?

If you run in addition to your cycling, that helps your cardio and endurance. The running will improve your cycling some but not as much as cycling those two extra days instead. That's why I asked about your goals.

If you are a beginner cyclists, almost any cardio exercise will cause improvements. As you get fitter and your cardio system improves, the marginal gains will diminish. If your three regelar rides are at 85% or so of your maximum and are an hour or so in duration, running is adding only a little bit to your cardio fitness level. Also at that level, improvements to cycling speed and endurance occur mostly through cycling specific activities. Running uses mostly hamstrings while cycling relies on your quads as far as your upper legs. A similar situation applies to your lower legs. If you want maximum improvement with cycling, do cycling. If you want to just cycle three days and want variety or get a good cardio workout without spending as much time, run those two days.

I can qoute lots of studies if you like but I'm just doing a quick summary.

I started running on a short trip because the bike was at home. So two days in a row of running. It was short about 2.5 miles each day around 6 am. The soreness was in the quads. Hamstrings felt fine. Also lower back ached but did not last long, just a day or two.

Definitely run, if not for anything else do it for the personal challenge.

Definitely run, if not for anything else do it for the personal challenge.

Just remember to stretch. Several years of biking as my only aerobic exercise apparently left me with insanely tight hamstrings and calves. Adding running to that caused major achilles problems. 2 months of stretching and PT exercises later, I'm hoping to start running again (much slower, ~15 min every other day rather than 30, and w/ a lot more stretching) in August.

^^^^ yes!! you should be stretching after running and cycling. later.

training authority here...:rolleyes:

I have noticed a greater impact on my cardio system after running for the last several months (like StanSeven said). It is just easier to get a 30-45 min run/cardio workout in than a worthwhile session of the same length on the bike (getting set, dressed, etc.--hell it takes me 15-30 min to get warmed up!). My goals are not to increase my speed, but I feel as though I have a greater capacity to do more work and that, imo, is positive. Go ahead and run!

Oh, btw, 4 miles on the track SUCKS! Go run "someplace" in the world and back, it feels better mentally and you can't stop 'till you are home. When I ran the 32 on the track in HS, it was tedious and boring. I couldn't imagine a 64! Try it and you'll see...

I ride my bike at least 25 miles 4 times a week and run at least 10 miles 4 times a week, I try to have 2 non-consequitive days off for recovery. I find that running and cycling compliment each other, both work different muscle groups. Running is great cardio, having good cardio is great for cycling. For my running I try and keep at least 2 sessions in my lower 2 HR zone, 1 session in upper 2 HR zone and one session in zone 3.

Runner's World(r) Complete Book of Running by Amby Burfoot.

I do not agree with other people's opinion on this one. If it did not work for some people then you are doing something wrong. There is a method to develop VO2 max by running or by any other sport.

Working out other muscle groups will make the ones that are strong much stronger. I have done some bodybuilding and here is a quick example; when someone hit s plateau making the legs bigger one of the things many do is to concentrate on the upper body and viceversa.

I mix running with riding my bike and have noticed an improvement. I did jump from running to cycling which is the other way around from what has been expressed here. As long as VO2 max is improving then it does not matter the workout. Just keep an eye on overtraining and a way to do that is by checking your recovery rate.

For example; get your resting pulse before working out and at the end of the workout, do this daily. Then keep track how much time does it take your heart to achieve a resting pulse. If the recovery time takes longer then you are over-training etc etc.

IMO all been said above.

Is this going to help me get better on the bike or not. Thanks in advance.No.

If you don't know enough about training that you have ask a question like this, it is doubtful that you would know enough about mixing two forms of exercise to favor or benefit just your bicycling skill.

It is possible that running will help your fitness for cycling, but just as likely that it won't. Get help, go search the Net of "cross training faq, how to do it?""

For the past 15 years or so, I've been primarily a cyclist. But over the past year, I've added running (primarily so I can do duathlons and triathlons).

Starting with a pretty well-trained aerobic fitness base, I did not notice any significant improvements on the bike from running.

However, I did learn (the hard way) that running is much harder on your body than cycling. It's not very hard to ride the bike every day, but with running you have to be very careful with both volume and intensity...especially for the first year or so.

I suspect that it was due to my aerobic fitness that I was able to push my body beyond where it was ready, and so I gave myself a stress fracture of the fibula last fall...which kept me off the bike for nearly a month! :(

On the other hand, when done carefully, running is great. You'll definitely feel more complete as an athlete, and you can easily incorporate run training whenever you travel by packing just a pair of shorts and shoes.

Well, I might be the only guy here who is primarily a runner so I'll give you my thoughts. Running is the harder of the two activities by far. I don't know if there is a more cardio intensive activity than running, and even though I do most of my training as a runner, I am still a very competitive cyclist and I can keep up with the "big dogs" in my area. Cross training is never a bad idea unless you think you will hurt yourself. Also, running really improved my sprinting abilities on the bike. Incorporating running into your training will probably yield great results after a few months and if not, then you can stop.

I am a cross-country/track guy turned cyclist. I just got back from an eight mile run, so we will see how it works. It was an amazing cardio workout. I know that it would be better to cycle five days a week than cycle three and run two, but I was hoping cycling three and running two would be better than just riding three. Any other advice of whether this is true physiologically or not is welcome to chime in.

radioFree & recneps: Your not alone in the running department. I'm also primarily a runner, trail runner to be exact. I cycle also, this gives different muscles a workout. I'm in agreement with you that in my opinion there isn't anything more cardio intensive than running (provided you push yourself). I think that being a dual or tri sport athlete is better than just doing one sport, although it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Running must have something going for it if every sport requires running as part of training, you can't say that about any other sport.

I've had Vo2 MAX & LT tests done on myself both for cycling and running, and judging from my results and how I felt after these tests I can say that at least for me running is more intensive.

Another important benefit of running is it helps create bone strength and density, cycling does not.

I took up running almost a year ago after having spent way too much time convincing myself it bordered on cruel and unusual punishment. After a very steep learning curve, I've grown to adore it and find it vastly more fulfilling than riding.

Running has many benefits over cycling if you're looking at it strictly from a workout perspective. I find it is a much better use of time if that is an issue. In my experience, it has been much better for improving my endurance than cycling, it is alot more of an intense workout and since taking it up I've dropped weight I didn't even realise I had.

I guess the downside is - especially when starting out - it can be quite hard on your body. And you will need to take it easy for a while and build up slowly - it's frustrating but necessary if you want to avoid serious injury. These problems are magnified if you're overweight.

One thing about running is not all running is the same. There is sprint, XC, marathon..... I think I've done all the various forms of running over the years and I can definately tell you that trail running is the most intensive form of running I've ever come across, I don't mean running down a dirt road or rail-to-trails either, I mean running single track through the woods. Not only do you have to run, but you also have to be very carefull of foot placement as you're running, plus there is no such thing as a gentle slope, one second you are running on the level, the next second you are running up a 75% uphill creek bed filled with boulders. the next second you are running down a 75% rocky path - this goes on and on forever. There is no pace that you can set and get complacent, impossible to say you are running a 7:00 mile, the most you can hope for is a decent average time.

No one has mentioned it yet, but running will help keep your bone density up if you're not already doing leg workouts in the gym.

don't know if it will make you faster though. . .

Another important benefit of running is it helps create bone strength and density, cycling does not.

Throughout, or just in the load-bearing parts? That's a dumb question, your whole body bears the load from running. Do your arms get hung out to dry or do they get a bone-density benefit from like overflow of the rest of the skeleton?

A word of advice though to those who plan to start serious running: go to a running specialty store to get fitted for shoes; the wrong shoes can mean alot of pain down the line, and not just in your feet. Asics ds trainer is my shoe of choice but your shoe may vary depending on your needs, like if you are a trail runner like qwerty.

radiofree: I hear ya on the correctly fitted shoes! Probably the single most important thing a runner can do is get fitted for the right shoes. Problem is even if the shoes are correctly fitted and feel great in the store things have a habit of changing after a bunch of miles. Lots of times problems don't show up until after about a hundred miles on the shoes (I do 70 trail miles a week). The shoes that don't work out I retire to be used as my daily walkers or street runners, once I finally find a pair of shoes that really work I buy 4 or 5 pair of them. Right now I use Montrail HardRock's and own 5 pair.

Also, socks are just as important as the shoes!!

Hardy: Good question about what bones are strenghtened!! Maybe someone out there knows the answer to this?? If I had to guess it's just whatever bones you're using and pounding, kinda like muscles.

For the past 15 years or so, I've been primarily a cyclist. But over the past year, I've added running (primarily so I can do duathlons and triathlons).

Starting with a pretty well-trained aerobic fitness base, I did not notice any significant improvements on the bike from running.

However, I did learn (the hard way) that running is much harder on your body than cycling. It's not very hard to ride the bike every day, but with running you have to be very careful with both volume and intensity...especially for the first year or so.

I suspect that it was due to my aerobic fitness that I was able to push my body beyond where it was ready, and so I gave myself a stress fracture of the fibula last fall...which kept me off the bike for nearly a month! :(

On the other hand, when done carefully, running is great. You'll definitely feel more complete as an athlete, and you can easily incorporate run training whenever you travel by packing just a pair of shorts and shoes.

correct. if you do too much, too soon, or go too fast too soon, you can get hurt. running is hard on the body. your heart may be ready, but make sure the rest of you is. if you are smart about it and do some research on how to start, running can greatly increase your cycling ability. later.

correct. if you do too much, too soon, or go too fast too soon, you can get hurt. running is hard on the body. your heart may be ready, but make sure the rest of you is. if you are smart about it and do some research on how to start, running can greatly increase your cycling ability. later.

On that last point, I think I'll have to disagree.

While running has many benefits, it's generally acknowledged that it won't make you a better cyclist. If there were any proven performance benefits, the pros would be incorporating running into their training. AFAIK, none of them do (likewise, no cycling coaching authorities that I'm aware of recommend running).

^^^^ you are correct. my point was to state it will help your "endurance" level, which in my opinion should help your cycling. either way, i can only speak from my experience and for me the facts show that my off season running and some limited in season running have made me a better cyclist. later.

On that last point, I think I'll have to disagree.

While running has many benefits, it's generally acknowledged that it won't make you a better cyclist. If there were any proven performance benefits, the pros would be incorporating running into their training. AFAIK, none of them do (likewise, no cycling coaching authorities that I'm aware of recommend running).

There's a lot of stuff that helps a lot of people that don't give pros any marginal edge. My dad gets improvement when his remote battery is dead and he has to get off the sofa to change channels that wouldn't do much for me.

There's a lot of stuff that helps a lot of people that don't give pros any marginal edge. My dad gets improvement when his remote battery is dead and he has to get off the sofa to change channels that wouldn't do much for me.

Hardy, this has been my exact question. I cycle three times a week fairly hard. I am wanting to know if running two times on top of my cycling will improve my cycling. Bringing a pro into the equation is pointless. Lets say I run four times a week and cycle once versus only cycling once a week. There is no doubt that the running four times would greatly benefit my cycling. I am hoping on the same to will be true of cycling three and running two times a week.

Running two times per week while cycling three time per week, might benefit your cycling...if you're starting from a weak/untrained aerobic base.

But, if you're already fairly fit, and want to be a better cyclist, and don't care about the other benefits of running, then your time would be better spent on the bike.

Running and cycling are so completely different, I don't think that one helps the other at all except for the aerobic base. I can go out and ride 200 miles on a whim but I feel like I'm going to die, gasping for breath, after a 5k run!

Doesn't it depend on what your objective is?

If your objective is all around fitness, cycling and running would probably be the best.

If you don't care about general fitness but just want to be the best cyclist and nothing else other than a (pro) cyclist, probably just cycling exclusively would be best - this also means no weights or anything else - just cycling. For some reason I just can't imagine pro cyclists doing anything but cycling and nothing else.

Being a dual or tri sport athlete not only gives a more overall fitness level but it also helps eliminate boredom which is the major reason most people give up on their fitness programs after a while.

There is no doubt that the running four times would greatly benefit my cycling. I am hoping on the same to will be true of cycling three and running two times a week.I'm not sure I get the gist of your question. As I mentioned, running is unlikely to help your cycling. Obviously you must have forgotten or never studied the basic principles of exercise physiology.

Simply because you apply stress (exercise) to the cardiovascular system (by running) doesn't mean, and assuming your CV system improves, you've improved your cycling ability. It means that you've improved your cardiovascular system which happened to be the weakest component of your cycling.

To really understand cross training, you have to consider all the elements of multiple activities for the training routine to be cross-complementary. What you are doing isn't cross training, it's just "plain training" in two different activities that happen to share aerobic components in their execution.

As I have mentioned, get help, the information is available to those who are interested - and can read.......

Richard Cranium: I may be a new member here and I will willingly admit that I don't know everything there is to know about this stuff, but I see no reason for your smart-ass answers to someone asking a legitimate question. Implying that someone can't read and your other answer (copied & pasted below) are really just showing that you think you are smarter than everyone - which I highly doubt - we are all here to learn and share info.

"If you don't know enough about training that you have ask a question like this, it is doubtful that you would know enough about mixing two forms of exercise to favor or benefit just your bicycling skill."


"The only dumb question is the question not asked". You can respond if you would like to but I will not respond to any of your cocky, condescending & holier-than-thou replies. I'm outta here!

^^^^ i wouldnt let him get to you. i mean he really is just a "dick head!" :)

my goal is overall fitness. combining running with cycling has put me in the best shape of my life. i can knock out 160 miles with a 21 mph pace and run a hilly half marathon at 8:20 per mile pace.

its true, if you strictly want to be the best cyclist you can be then you should ride and ride only.

that is all. later.

Here a few tips when shopping for shoes:

- Buy shoes in the afternoon when your feet are at their largest as your feet expand as well when running.

- Use similar socks as for going running.

- Be honest to the salesperson on how much you weight to find an ideal shoe.

- Also it is recommended to have a two or three shoes to rotate them daily or weekly to prevent stress at any specific point.

I'm not sure I get the gist of your question. As I mentioned, running is unlikely to help your cycling. Obviously you must have forgotten or never studied the basic principles of exercise physiology.

Simply because you apply stress (exercise) to the cardiovascular system (by running) doesn't mean, and assuming your CV system improves, you've improved your cycling ability. It means that you've improved your cardiovascular system which happened to be the weakest component of your cycling.

To really understand cross training, you have to consider all the elements of multiple activities for the training routine to be cross-complementary. What you are doing isn't cross training, it's just "plain training" in two different activities that happen to share aerobic components in their execution.

As I have mentioned, get help, the information is available to those who are interested - and can read.......

Yaaaaaaaawwwwn. Odds are with a Biochemistry major and 8 years of post high school studying sciences, I know more science than you. Not that anyone cares or should, but I thought I'd insert that seeing as how superior and smart you think you are. Although I will bet I know more about the whole subject of physiology than you, I know little when it comes to how it correlates with cycling and fitness. That is why I asked came here to ask. To get such a profound answer as yours was great. You say running and cycling are two different activities, brilliant. Then, you say there are places to get an answer to your question if I can read. Wow, keep them coming. Later

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, so here's what I see: I'm 52, when I was around 40 I was diagnosed as having very high cholesterol levels, high enough to warrant an emergency call to me from my doctor. I was overweight at around 185lbs. I started mtn biking, this helped a little. My cholesterol levels dropped to a high level but not artery clogging levels and my weight dropped a bit. After a couple years of mtn biking I started to combine biking with distance walking at a very fast pace, my cholesterol levels and my weight dropped more, this progressed into trail running. I'm currently trail running 10 miles a day every day and enjoying it and combining this with mtn biking whenever I get sapre time (usually at least 4 nights a week). My cholesterol levels are perfect without taking any meds and I'm at a very healthy 138lbs. I'm amazed at how much of a difference these combined sports have made. Instead of having a stringy runners body, I am totally in shape and look better at 52 than I did at 30, plus I feel like a million dollars.

What I'm trying to say here is that if you want to be a pro cyclist maybe just cycling would be what you should do 24/7, but if your goal is general fitness (and I'm assuming that's what the majority of us here are after) than combining both sports is a great way to go.

I have found that running has greatly improved both my endurance and speed on the bike. The secret is in the type of running that you do. Doing HIIT cardio will improve your explosive power, endurance, and recovery. Running hills (or a steep treadmill) will strengthen both your glutes and hamstrings. Most people are fairly quadricep dominant and getting the hamstrings to develop proportionally can be a chore. The hamstrings are made up of mostly fast-twitch muscle fiber, which require greater repetition under load to develop. That leg curl machine at the gym simply won't do it. We cyclists overlook these two muscle groups as potential means of power and instead focus on the quads and calves, which isn't even half the equation.

Run.