People,

this guy is not mincing words. Is he a hypocrit himself? No idea, although I doubt less the sprinters for doping for the Tour since they really only need to ride extremely hard for the last 1/2 hour of any stage.

Either way - interesting.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3

Tony Rominger - what a tosser. The Sargeant Schultz of cycling. 'I know nothing'

^^^^


Thanks for the link.

And remember, this mess.....its all cyclingsnews' fault...:rolleyes:

Good for Boonen, now I hope he's not cheating. They ought to let Boonen beat the tar out of Vino. I'd watch that

Gotta love the sprinters. Next year the tour should be all flat sprint stages. Screw the climbers.:D

People,

this guy is not mincing words. Is he a hypocrit himself? No idea, although I doubt less the sprinters for doping for the Tour since they really only need to ride extremely hard for the last 1/2 hour of any stage.

Either way - interesting.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3
Ever heard of the 100m dash? Lasts ~10 seconds. Lots of dope.
Ever heard of Eric Zabel? Competitor of Boonen? Yeah, he doped.

Look at who's been getting caught, and you'll notice something they have in common - their age. Just about all the guys who've been busted are 32+. What does that say about the sport? To me it says that unless you find some edge, you're almost guaranteed to be washed up within 10 years. That's a really hard thing for a lot of guys to take. The only thing they've known success at in life, and before their kids become teen-agers, they're finished.

What's the solution? Well I think golf might have the answer. I think they should start a Senior UCI tour, and open it to riders who are 35 and older. You're extending these guys' careers, and eliminating one of the pressures they face to cheat.

Look at who's been getting caught, and you'll notice something they have in common - their age. Just about all the guys who've been busted are 32+. What does that say about the sport? To me it says that unless you find some edge, you're almost guaranteed to be washed up within 10 years. That's a really hard thing for a lot of guys to take. The only thing they've known success at in life, and before their kids become teen-agers, they're finished.

What's the solution? Well I think golf might have the answer. I think they should start a Senior UCI tour, and open it to riders who are 35 and older. You're extending these guys' careers, and eliminating one of the pressures they face to cheat.Great idea!

^^^^


Thanks for the link.

And remember, this mess.....its all cyclingsnews' fault...:rolleyes:

versus, wada, dick pound and bobke too share the blame while we rationalize and minimalize for the dope cheats :rolleyes:.

ed rader

Dick Pound is as much a disgrace to cycling as any of the dope cheats.

Gotta love the sprinters. Next year the tour should be all flat sprint stages. Screw the climbers.:D

Ya, the sprinters probably dont take HCG or pro-hormones. You know the stuff that they dont test for.
I really dont think any of them are innocent. Maybe Im wrong. Id like to think so but probably not.
Does it really matter though. Tell me you guys wouldnt rather have seen the tour with everyone still in it. I know I would have.

Ya, the sprinters probably dont take HCG or pro-hormones. You know the stuff that they dont test for.
I really dont think any of them are innocent. Maybe Im wrong. Id like to think so but probably not.
Does it really matter though. Tell me you guys wouldnt rather have seen the tour with everyone still in it. I know I would have.

I don't know which way is better. Catching some of the big guns or just letting them all have at it. I'm sure that sprinters are up to their own tricks. Ask Zabel about it.

I like Boonen, but don't like this "holier than thou" attitude.

I like Boonen, but don't like this "holier than thou" attitude.

No, its high time the other riders started getting pissed. The code of silence is largely what pushed it to this point.

If enough riders get mad enough, THEY will call for stronger anti-doping measures. Fear of losing their livelihood when some other goon on their team cheats and gets the whole squad sacked, or sponsorship pulled, is the best way to clean up the peloton IMO.

Peer pressure from within could go a lot further than the UCI can on its own.

No, its high time the other riders started getting pissed. The code of silence is largely what pushed it to this point.

If enough riders get mad enough, THEY will call for stronger anti-doping measures. Fear of losing their livelihood when some other goon on their team cheats and gets the whole squad sacked, or sponsorship pulled, is the best way to clean up the peloton IMO.

Peer pressure from within could go a lot further than the UCI can on its own.
You mean like the cofidis riders yesterday morning before the stage start.... and then find out that one of them tested positive?

As long as a majority of riders aren't clean - and I'm 100% sure they aren't - I find it all very sanctimonious.

I like Boonen, but don't like this "holier than thou" attitude.

To be honest Silver Bullet, I don't like your attitude. People who want to speak out against drugs must be encouraged to do so. The more a cyclist criticizes drugs the more he or she increases the pressure on him or herself and those around them not to dope.

It's the people like Bettini, whining about being tested all the time, you should attack.

Boonen is not holier than thou, he's saying what needs to be said. Ditto anyone else willing to end the code of silence around doping. People like you make it harder for people to speak out.

We'll ill agree that making a show for the press can be hollow, but I still hope they get serious enough to push internally for better policies.

The UCI Vs. the riders paradigm will kill the sport if everyone cant get on the same page (not just in word, but attitude), and fast.

To be honest Silver Bullet, I don't like your attitude. People who want to speak out against drugs must be encouraged to do so. The more a cyclist criticizes drugs the more he or she increases the pressure on him or herself and those around them not to dope.

It's the people like Bettini, whining about being tested all the time, you should attack.

Boonen is not holier than thou, he's saying what needs to be said. Ditto anyone else willing to end the code of silence around doping. People like you make it harder for people to speak out.

Fair enough. Call me cynical but practically every rider that has been caught has spoken out (strongly) against doping before they were caught.

I'll give Boonen the benefit of the doubt.

Fair enough. Call me cynical but practically every rider that has been caught has spoken out (strongly) against doping before they were caught.

I'll give Boonen the benefit of the doubt.


I'm actually calling you more than cynical, I'm often faced with people like you who want to deprive riders of the voice to speak out against dopers and doping, and it has to stop. People like me have to shout louder than people like you - and keep shouting, lest we return to the bad old days when riders kept their heads down and anyone who spoke out was ostracised. It can't happen anymore.

I'm actually calling you more than cynical, I'm often faced with people like you who want to deprive riders of the voice to speak out against dopers and doping, and it has to stop. People like me have to shout louder than people like you - and keep shouting, lest we return to the bad old days when riders kept their heads down and anyone who spoke out was ostracised. It can't happen anymore.
People like me? You know what I'm like based on two posts. That's impressive.

I don't believe that riders condemning other riders of doping is going to resolve the doping issue. I don't think Rasmussen, Vino, Moreni, Landis, Sinkewitz care much about what Boonen thinks of them.

I'm all for people like Zabel who admit to what they've done and show regret. I think that does a whole lot more for cycling than Boonen or, much much worse, Millar condemning others.

With regards to shouting louder, my experience is that when people disagree, shouting louder isn't going to bring them to an agreement.

I'm actually calling you more than cynical, I'm often faced with people like you who want to deprive riders of the voice to speak out against dopers and doping, and it has to stop. People like me have to shout louder than people like you - and keep shouting, lest we return to the bad old days when riders kept their heads down and anyone who spoke out was ostracised. It can't happen anymore.


Good point. Enough with the omerta !!

Its happening with pro-cyclist, and fans should do the same. Speak up for clean cycling. Being a supporter of pro-cycling is not about minimizing the doping problem and trying to prevent others from discussing it. Au contraire !

I love it.

Good point. Enough with the omerta !!

Its happening with pro-cyclist, and fans should do the same. Speak up for clean cycling. Being a supporter of pro-cycling is not about minimizing the doping problem and trying to prevent others from discussing it. Au contraire !
Pardon me but there is nothing "breaking the omerta" about this. Boonen doesn't break the silence by condemning riders who have been caught. He would be when he admits to taking doping himself or talks about one of his team mates doping (before getting caught). He has never done that. Which is exactly why I find the "let's condemn riders who are caught, but keep quiet about the rest" such a sanctimonious attitude.

Those are strong words coming out of Boonen's mouth, good for him. However he better be clean. I hope that all the clean riders(if any) start to criticize those who cheat so this sport can get cleaned up.

Remember when Dope was something you smoked between classes?
Ah those were the days:)

To be honest Silver Bullet, I don't like your attitude. People who want to speak out against drugs must be encouraged to do so. The more a cyclist criticizes drugs the more he or she increases the pressure on him or herself and those around them not to dope.

It's the people like Bettini, whining about being tested all the time, you should attack.

Boonen is not holier than thou, he's saying what needs to be said. Ditto anyone else willing to end the code of silence around doping. People like you make it harder for people to speak out.

Boonen may be saying what needs to be said but my guess is he's saying it because someone suggested he do it. Listen to the commentators this morning. Guilty until proven innocent ... and so on and so on. I guarantee you this is nothing new. And how said are Phill and Paul. Paraphrasing, they basically said Contador, Evans, and Leipheimer must be clean because they looked so sad and tired. I think Leipheimer is playing this tour very smart. Just doing well enough to keep in the top 5 but not well enough to bring suspicion on himself. Face it the smart guys now will do nothing fantastic even if they can less it will bring suspicion and given guilty until proven innocent perhaps thats not so dumn. Either way I am worried about the quality of the entertainment now which is the secret to the success of cycling. How many people go out and buy road bikes for the first time during our just after the Tour? Well I hope I'm wrong and the rest of the tour will be spectacular. But I wont hold my breathe.

Look at who's been getting caught, and you'll notice something they have in common - their age. Just about all the guys who've been busted are 32+. What does that say about the sport? To me it says that unless you find some edge, you're almost guaranteed to be washed up within 10 years. That's a really hard thing for a lot of guys to take. The only thing they've known success at in life, and before their kids become teen-agers, they're finished.

What's the solution? Well I think golf might have the answer. I think they should start a Senior UCI tour, and open it to riders who are 35 and older. You're extending these guys' careers, and eliminating one of the pressures they face to cheat.

Wow! You might just have something there. Has that ever been suggested or discussed seriously? I makes sense

Remember when Dope was something you smoked between classes?
Ah those were the days:)

classes? what are those? :D

Good for Boonen, now I hope he's not cheating. They ought to let Boonen beat the tar out of Vino. I'd watch that

Up Next on Vs.: Ultimate Cyclist Cagefighting on TapOut!

Remember when Dope was something you smoked between classes?
Ah those were the days:)

That's why North American mountain bikers took a second seat to the Euro MTB'ers in the 90's. The Euros brought EPO and the American/Canadians were doing oneies (sp?) of BC's finest before (and after) the race. We had more fun than the Euros, which is all that matters in the long run.

The reason that you have to shout over others . . . many in cycling hate when they see a cyclist go off like this. Why? The fear that they will test positive at some point. If so, then their overall effect is MUCH worse than shutting the hell up.
I think we all would want clean guys to speak up, but even 1 guy speaking up only to turn out a doper offsets 20 clean guys protesting.

That's why North American mountain bikers took a second seat to the Euro MTB'ers in the 90's. The Euros brought EPO and the American/Canadians were doing oneies (sp?) of BC's finest before (and after) the race. We had more fun than the Euros, which is all that matters in the long run.

I think Cadel Evans was a fine mountain biker in the late '90s, kinda came outta nowhere too....

Tony Rominger - what a tosser. The Sargeant Schultz of cycling. 'I know nothing'

http://www.thesoapboxroadshow.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_18024/schultz.jpg

I trust Boonen. He was kind of relegated to a second tier sprinter the last couple of years. All of a sudden McEwen and Zabel are within his reach. Sprinters, the musclemen of the peleton, would see greater benefits from steroids than the GC contenders (although the GC benefits more from EPO/blood doping). I think the emphasis on testing has caused a number of riders that used to cheat to ride clean. Isn't that the point of these programs? I think cycling should be congratulated for catching the cheaters. It means their protocols are working. Have you ever seen an American football player or a WWF wrestler put into a police car because they got caught doping? In the long run, all of this hubris will benefit cycling.

NFL players get suspended. Sean Merriman did last year, and he is a superstar of the sport. MLB same thing (now, sadly many years too late). I tire of the uncalled for bashing of US sports whenever a cyclist test positive. Why do it? Cycling has a drug problem. Period. Calling out other sports does nothing to change that. Turn the hate towards these people that are killing cycling.

WWE simply does not care about steriods, in fact by most accounts they encourage it. WWE is not a sport, so that is sort of silly to list it here anyway.

Breaking Omerta?! Silencing the riders?!

I am right with Silver Bullet. Boonen and Millar are saying NOTHING! "I hate dopers, they are bad for my sport, it discredits what I do, blah, blah, blah, Where are the cameras?"

Truly speaking out would be putting something out there that helps the fight against doping. Riders like Boonen and Millar are saying the same thing that fans and "some" commentators have been saying for years.

Boonen should have said something earlier if Steegmans and he truly did see Vino "training in black." That would have been helpful.

Millar could do a lot more as well. Instead of "fessing up" (after the fact), why does he not tell: a-how he got his drugs, b- who was helping him (doctors, other riders, directors, PROMOTERS), c-what we (the fans) could look for, i.e. the changes that he showed when he doped, as opposed to us playing parlor games (well he rode well yesterday, but poorly today, must be dope!).

Until they actually say something that helps the fight against dope, their indignation rings hollow.

NFL players get suspended. Sean Merriman did last year, and he is a superstar of the sport. MLB same thing (now, sadly many years too late). I tire of the uncalled for bashing of US sports whenever a cyclist test positive. Why do it? Cycling has a drug problem. Period. Calling out other sports does nothing to change that. Turn the hate towards these people that are killing cycling.

WWE simply does not care about steriods, in fact by most accounts they encourage it. WWE is not a sport, so that is sort of silly to list it here anyway.

Oh yeah, the NFL is totally innocent of steroids. In the 70's someone 6'4" and 230lbs would be a defensive/offensive lineman. Now they could barely be a DB. Now you have to be 300lbs+ to be a lineman. The eyebrow ridges, the huge chins, the roid rage at your local nightclub...oh no...none of them are using steroids. The NFL's policy in dealing with performance enhancers is a joke compared to what cycling is trying to do (look at the penalties for being caught). That's why we should be supporting the UCI's efforts, rather than condemning it for catching cheats. Although it would be nice if the UCI/Tour used reputable labs (funny the Tour isn't using LNDD this year...hmmm).

I am NOT saying the NFL or US sports are clean. My point is that every time a cyclist gets busted all riders get all bent and toss bombs at NFL and MLB. Why? Does it make cycling cleaner? No. Again, cycling has a problem with PED's that is simply unmatched in any sport. I think fans and riders would be better saying 'we are the worst', 'we have the most serious issue of all sports'. It is like anything, admitting it is the first step. I am not defending the NFL or any other sport. I just tire of this being the response to cycling's HUGE problem.

There is a huge PED problem in many sports and more importantly, in society. I agree with you there. Kids and college students, musicians, stars and more are risking their life to get bigger.

To be clear - I think PEDs have hurt MLB big time. I think NFL players user. I think some pro golfers use. This is not a cycling only issue. I just do not think attacking other sports helps you.

But to debate . . . I am quite sure (no proof of course) that less NFL players use than cyclists percentage wise. I know this will get me killed here, but PED's will do more for a rider than a football or baseball player. No sport in the world tests strength, endurance, and recovery like cycling. This is what PEDs do.

I am quite sure (no proof of course) that less NFL players use than cyclists percentage wise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/reallyoldpunk/nile7.jpg

It's not just a river in Egypt!

People like me? You know what I'm like based on two posts. That's impressive.

Actually I've been annoyed by your posts for quite awhile.

Rasmussen didn't miss a doping test. He failed to inform UCI of his whereabouts (for just a few days it seems), so they wouldn't have been able to test him in case they wanted to

This piece of misinformation was the main offender in recent days. Along with the old standby "well they're all doing it" when you were in a corner.



Back to Boonen, this is far from his first comment on drugs. It's not even his first comment during the Tour. He has been fair and consistent. It riders such as Bettini, and the rider's representatives Moser and Bugno complaining about testing that infuriate me. Bettini said he'd quit, if DNA testing was introduced. I wish he would. As for Moser, saying all drugs should be legal, his comments say a lot about his personal values. When I raced it was to be the best I could be - and to win races if I was good enough. Even if drugs were legal I wouldn't have taken them. Moser obviously thinks winning on drugs is fine.

Actually I've been annoyed by your posts for quite awhile.



This piece of misinformation was the main offender in recent days. Along with the old standby "well they're all doing it" when you were in a corner.



Back to Boonen, this is far from his first comment on drugs. It's not even his first comment during the Tour. He has been fair and consistent. It riders such as Bettini, and the rider's representatives Moser and Bugno complaining about testing that infuriate me. Bettini said he'd quit, if DNA testing was introduced. I wish he would. As for Moser, saying all drugs should be legal, his comments say a lot about his personal values. When I raced it was to be the best I could be - and to win races if I was good enough. Even if drugs were legal I wouldn't have taken them. Moser obviously thinks winning on drugs is fine.



Bettini is one of the problems with cycling. I wish the little gnome would quit and go do what someone with his intellect can do: bag my groceries.

I like Boonen, but don't like this "holier than thou" attitude.

Boonen's saying exactly what a clean professional rider should be saying. If your being cheated and your livelyhood is threatened, you have every right to be pissed.

It's amazing the riders that have lost races to people who are doping and don't get pissed (i.e. Pierero's first reaction last year.)

It's great to see someone speak out. Now the question that unfortunately arises is whether Boonen is saying this because its what someone who doesn't dope should say.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/reallyoldpunk/nile7.jpg

It's not just a river in Egypt!

Fine, you win. Because the NFL has some level of cheating with PEDs, that means nothing at all is wrong with cycling. Tell Landis and all the cheats to just attack the NFL and everything will be fine.

Again, how does this help cycling?

Look at it this way. If you or I as cyclist were logged onto a NFL fan site, and they were bashing cycling for doping, I would be all over that just like you would.
As it stands, this is a cycling site. Cycling is having its superbowl ruined right now by drugs. I think we are better off saying that this sucks and it hurts all of us who ride. Being defensive will not help.

I am sure we actually have very similar views on PEDs in many sports. I just think that lobbing attacks at the NFL, especially with very few here that really know the ins and outs of the NFL testing, is just a waste.

Again, how does this help cycling?

It doesn't, that's the point. Sports Illustrated runs an editorial decrying PED's in cycling while turning a blind eye to what goes on in the NFL and MLB (the sports they make the most money off of). You can't have it both ways. The average NFL'er gets tested once per year, the average cyclist 30 plus times (a lot of them in the off season). You tell me who is really serious about getting rid of PED's in their sport.

But then again, at least they will take a stand on dog fighting.

I think Cadel Evans was a fine mountain biker in the late '90s, kinda came outta nowhere too....

Evans was only 17 when he hit the big time on a world stage in MTB. Up until fairly recently he had the highest VO2 max ever tested by the AIS - in any sport

I am NOT saying the NFL or US sports are clean. My point is that every time a cyclist gets busted all riders get all bent and toss bombs at NFL and MLB. Why? Does it make cycling cleaner? No. Again, cycling has a problem with PED's that is simply unmatched in any sport. I think fans and riders would be better saying 'we are the worst', 'we have the most serious issue of all sports'. It is like anything, admitting it is the first step. I am not defending the NFL or any other sport. I just tire of this being the response to cycling's HUGE problem.

There is a huge PED problem in many sports and more importantly, in society. I agree with you there. Kids and college students, musicians, stars and more are risking their life to get bigger.

To be clear - I think PEDs have hurt MLB big time. I think NFL players user. I think some pro golfers use. This is not a cycling only issue. I just do not think attacking other sports helps you.

But to debate . . . I am quite sure (no proof of course) that less NFL players use than cyclists percentage wise. I know this will get me killed here, but PED's will do more for a rider than a football or baseball player. No sport in the world tests strength, endurance, and recovery like cycling. This is what PEDs do.

If other sports followed the same test criteria that professional cycling did the fields, courts and rinks would all be empty, FACT!

Gotta love the sprinters. Next year the tour should be all flat sprint stages. Screw the climbers.:D


After THIS year that'd almost be fun!!:D

If other sports followed the same test criteria that professional cycling did the fields, courts and rinks would all be empty, FACT!

So true my friend!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/reallyoldpunk/600_tennis.jpg

Hmmm....brow ridge...huge chin...enlarged cartiledge on the nose ...abnormal musculature....yeah

And don't forget music...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/reallyoldpunk/sid.jpg

Damn cheaters! (Sex Pistols, Hendrix, the Doors, AC/DC, Nirvana....okay...EVERYONE out of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame)

Actually I've been annoyed by your posts for quite awhile.

This piece of misinformation was the main offender in recent days. Along with the old standby "well they're all doing it" when you were in a corner.

Back to Boonen, this is far from his first comment on drugs. It's not even his first comment during the Tour. He has been fair and consistent. It riders such as Bettini, and the rider's representatives Moser and Bugno complaining about testing that infuriate me. Bettini said he'd quit, if DNA testing was introduced. I wish he would. As for Moser, saying all drugs should be legal, his comments say a lot about his personal values. When I raced it was to be the best I could be - and to win races if I was good enough. Even if drugs were legal I wouldn't have taken them. Moser obviously thinks winning on drugs is fine.
I understand it now. When you say "people like you" you mean "people who disagree with me and therefore annoy me". Got it, mate.

Misinformation? At the time I posted that, that was what was reported in reputable media. Show me a reputable source that reported differently at that time, and I'll happily admit it was a piece of misinformation.

And I've never used "well, they're all doing it" when I'm in a corner. I believe that all TdF riders have been involved in doping at some stage in their career. I'm not happy about it and I wish there was a way to clean the sport. I just don't see it that Boonen (or others) condemning others is helping.

I never claimed this was the first time Boonen spoke about doping. I agree with you that Bettini's attitude is worse. But like Yossarian said above, where was Boonen crying outrage when he saw Vino "ride in black"? It's just so easy to condemn a rider that's been caught but stay quiet on all the other things these riders see.