I just checked this site (http://www.izipusa.com/) for the Izip bikes and there are some rather clean looking designs. I love the bikes with the concealed batteries in the tubes. The bike looks stock and unless you know of the bike brand or the design/features you'd walk by it thinking it is a normal bike to help keep the thieves away.

The concealed batteries models are 44lbs with li-ion batteries while the rest are around 60lbs. Personally I wished the bikes would be ~30-35lbs and with a lighter battery. Like a smaller battery. I know the runtime will be shorter but personally I'm not one to ride with the motor most of the times. I'll only use the motor on a hill after I've naturally gotten tired from hill climbing then turn it on or when at night and I'm tired and need to leave a hostile situation quickly.

Nice bikes.

EDIT:
Sorry if this site was mentioned before but I'm not going to wade through all the comments before.

I just checked this site (http://www.izipusa.com/) for the Izip bikes and there are some rather clean looking designs. I love the bikes with the concealed batteries in the tubes. The bike looks stock and unless you know of the bike brand or the design/features you'd walk by it thinking it is a normal bike to help keep the thieves away.

The concealed batteries models are 44lbs with li-ion batteries while the rest are around 60lbs. Personally I wished the bikes would be ~30-35lbs and with a lighter battery. Like a smaller battery. I know the runtime will be shorter but personally I'm not one to ride with the motor most of the times. I'll only use the motor on a hill after I've naturally gotten tired from hill climbing then turn it on or when at night and I'm tired and need to leave a hostile situation quickly.

Nice bikes.

EDIT:
Sorry if this site was mentioned before but I'm not going to wade through all the comments before. Using 250 watt motors and a small 300 watt hour lithium pack would fit your needs remaining light weight. Using ONLY motor power will put a strain on the system.

I keep hearing about 5 pound powerful motors. Where can I find one?

I haven't read this thread entirely, but I plan on it. However, the title caught my eye due to my searching for solar powered products including a bicycle. With CIGS arrays and Li batteries, I'm puzzled why this technology isn't widely available for a bicycle.

I keep hearing about 5 pound powerful motors. Where can I find one?Other than a high price servo motor you can make a lightweight motor from a small auto alternator.
http://www.alternatorconversions.com/

I haven't read this thread entirely, but I plan on it. However, the title caught my eye due to my searching for solar powered products including a bicycle. With CIGS arrays and Li batteries, I'm puzzled why this technology isn't widely available for a bicycle.

Solar panels are a steadily improving technology, one that i've considered integrating into my next version as a sort of experiment. The idea though is to use a smaller fold out panel to recharge when the system isn't in use. Powering the bike during use requires a large array.

http://www.news.com/Silicon-vs.-CIGS-With-solar-energy,-the-issue-is-material/2100-1008_3-6121488.html
This is a pretty good article on CIGS.

With the amount of power needed to operate an e-bike, and the relatively small size of the bike, you need quite a bit of panel. By the time you've got enough surface area to capture the needed energy, your ride looks like this: http://66.216.110.131/pim-gallery/Pages/52.html

As for lithium, some of the most advanced battery chemistries in the world can be adapted to an e-bike. Its just a matter of swallowing the cost.

Edit: Gosh darn it Abneycat beat me!


Solar panels are expensive, they don't give much power and make for a clumsy bike. Considering that money could be used to get a few fold more battery capacity, there's not much sense buying solar panels. Still, a few years ago some dude toured around France on a recumbent with solar panels and a hub motor from Velectris. They can still hook you up if you want, but as I recall not long ago the owner said something on forums about having sold only one so far... It's kinda like the way cinder block holder technology never quite seemed to take off as far as bikes are concerned, the market for these things is really quite limited.

As for lithium batteries not being widely available for bicycles, I'm not sure where you get that idea since there's plenty available. If you mean that chemistries other then lithium are also used on assist bikes, I'll point out that the amount of battery storage needed makes these lithium batteries cost about as much as a decent bike.


Oh, Randy I think I found a speech by someone who's related to you! Check it out here (http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/audio/Gangster%20Computer%20God%20Worldwide%20Secret%20Containment%20Policy.mp3)!

Also, mudkips.

Oh, Randy I think I found a speech by someone who's related to you! Check it out here (http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/audio/Gangster%20Computer%20God%20Worldwide%20Secret%20Containment%20Policy.mp3)!

Also, mudkips.

Whatever that was, it hurt my face. Smiling, of course.

I don't think it's technology that's behind but application development. For one thing - most folks don't have any idea what will actually work best for them. Each situation is different and just look at regular bikes to see that for every person, there's a different preference or style.

My normal needs are 10 miles range and good comfort with little cargo but I need to bring it indoor so lightweight is a premium. Someone else might need 25 miles range and haul a backpack or other gear - but can park outside so weight is not as much concern. But, what about when I need 20 miles and haul some paint or lumber from the hardware store? My normal rig ain't gonna cut it so there's another machine I may need to assemble and tailor for particular application.

All these things make for a very complicated puzzle that can only be solved through hands-on testing and development. Electric battery power isn't like gasoline - you can't have nearly unlimited range and power. It's always a balance for the job that must be studied, chosen, applied and tailored to best suit each individual situation.

Lotsa good hardware out there but little of it applied to eBikes until now. Solar panels would be best suited to parking installations or simple battery maintenance for trickle charging SLA chemistry during stop/go commutes. Bulk charging would simply require too many sq ft to be practical at this time IMO.

Solar panels would be best suited to parking installations or simple battery maintenance for trickle charging SLA chemistry during stop/go commutes. Bulk charging would simply require too many sq ft to be practical at this time IMO.

I agree. Solar is power that should be utilized as much as possible. I'm just beginning my research on solar, but a 50w CIGS array should easily be usable on a bicycle with current technology.

Abneycat -

I'll be looking forward to your experimentation with solar... I'll be doing likewise within 6 months or so. :)

I agree. Solar is power that should be utilized as much as possible. I'm just beginning my research on solar, but a 50w CIGS array should easily be usable on a bicycle with current technology.

Abneycat -

I'll be looking forward to your experimentation with solar... I'll be doing likewise within 6 months or so. :)
It can be done on both boats and ebikes with Eboats on a trailer, but unless you are homeless its eaiser to leave the pannels at home on the roof where they belong and zoom off with lithium.

And don't forget wind power too!

Actually, I recall geebee mentioning he designed the fairing on his trike to take advantage of side winds.

And don't forget wind power too!Yes sailing and windmills have been around for 100s if not 1000s of years.

It can be done on both boats and ebikes with Eboats on a trailer, but unless you are homeless its eaiser to leave the pannels at home on the roof where they belong and zoom off with lithium.

Currently, you're right. However, most of us want to get AWAY from the constant annoyance of recharging batteries manually. At least, I do. A storage cell should have a means of recharging itself automatically, e.g. as a indirect function of human, solar, wind, etc. work. We'll see where the technology goes...

BTW, Beautiful images... I need a vacation ... ;)

Well, as far as solar is concerned, what i've considered is a system to go in tandem with the Xtracycle i'll be ordering. Creating a removable mount for the panel on the snapdeck, the array would have a center panel which would attach to the snapdeck, along with 2 wings that fold on top with an alloy casing for protection while riding. There would be a car adapter attachment for recharging your phone, mp3 player, gps, whatever you might need. It could also charge a battery reserve which would then be used for lighting when the sun went down. Naturally, I simply want this for the tours that I go on.

However, it would be possible to adapt the same system for use as a battery maintenance device. You could slowly trickle charge the battery, which would be very beneficial for SLA usage. It could have potential if you were building some sort of oddball electric touring rig with a battery you used exclusively for going up hills and turned off at other times, but I can't see myself doing it. When I go extreme distances, the hub comes off. Funny that, building an e-bike to help out around Calgary, but then packing 70lbs of junk up a mountain to go to Banff without the e-bike? For now, i'll just attribute it to laziness :p

There are distinct weaknesses to doing this though: it would be pretty silly for urban use. Solar panels are shiny and expensive, thieves love to nick them. Trust me. And teens love to break them. Leaving your bike around charging unless it was on your property or a secure location would just be an *invitation*

Panels are also pricey. You would have to do a whole lot of charging to make it economically viable. There are better reasons to go solar, like *needing* remote charging, or having a simple desire to go "off the grid". Be aware though that the process involved in making these panels isn't exactly "green", and in order to make the solar panel worth the environmentally smug weight some people put on it, you have to really be dedicated to using the panel. Buying a big hunk of plastic and chemicals to charge your ipod once in a while when you're near the grid isn't as environmentally friendly as people think. Particularily if you already live in a locale where the grid *is* solar, hydro or wind.

Solar panels are shiny and expensive, thieves love to nick them. Trust me. And teens love to break them. Leaving your bike around charging unless it was on your property or a secure location would just be an *invitation*



Generally, I agree with your sentiments. Personally, I'd be using foldable CIGS arrays...

Currently, you're right. However, most of us want to get AWAY from the constant annoyance of recharging batteries manually. At least, I do. A storage cell should have a means of recharging itself automatically, e.g. as a indirect function of human, solar, wind, etc. work. We'll see where the technology goes...

BTW, Beautiful images... I need a vacation ... ;) This system cost me $2000. 25 years ago and has supplied 1000s of ebike and eboat miles as well as all of my families hot water and about 75% of my home power needs for the last 25 years.Only the rain has cleaned them and so everything works and looks like new other than a little dust. Good for at least another 25 years of service.All my Atlantis Submarine batteries were free and if I ever need another set I can just pick them up 10 miles away. Avacados trees and 100 coconut trees are back up for fuel if I ever need it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgABU3S90jY

Currently, you're right. However, most of us want to get AWAY from the constant annoyance of recharging batteries manually. At least, I do. A storage cell should have a means of recharging itself automatically, e.g. as a indirect function of human, solar, wind, etc. work. We'll see where the technology goes...

BTW, Beautiful images... I need a vacation ... ;)Plug in charging to go from 10 miles to 100 miles is quite simple. It all depends on how much you would like to spend for batteries.On days without much sun a small solar pannel on your bike wont help much and would be a hinderence.Here are some more views of my neighborhood ebiking up a close by hill.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5305949999301107762

Plug in charging to go from 10 miles to 100 miles is quite simple. It all depends on how much you would like to spend for batteries.On days without much sun a small solar pannel on your bike wont help much and would be a hinderence.Here are some more views of my neighborhood ebiking up a close by hill.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5305949999301107762

Randy,

Adding CIGS arrays would NOT be much of liability as the weight of these arrays is VERY low. ;) Bulk is still a problem, but creative adaptation to the bike could minimize the problem. Anyhow, I looked at PART (*) of your video. I agree that compacted dirt trails make sense for an e-bike. An interesting comparison would be adapting an e-bike (motor, gearing) for rocky terrain versus compacted dirt trails. Personally, I would avoid using any power assist over rocky terrain until convinced otherwise of its safety.

(*) I'll try to finish it later tonight.

Randy,

Adding CIGS arrays would NOT be much of liability as the weight of these arrays is VERY low. ;) Bulk is still a problem, but creative adaptation to the bike could minimize the problem. Anyhow, I looked at PART (*) of your video. I agree that compacted dirt trails make sense for an e-bike. An interesting comparison would be adapting an e-bike (motor, gearing) for rocky terrain versus compacted dirt trails. Personally, I would avoid using any power assist over rocky terrain until convinced otherwise of its safety.

(*) I'll try to finish it later tonight. First of all it is not SAFE to ride any bike on rocks. lol ...Adding 12 lbs of total added battery/motor weight to any mountain bike will not make much of any difference espicaly if it adds over 75 ft lbs of torque to the wheel to power it. As long as you keep the ebike light within reason and have plenty of torque a ebike CAN hop logs and bulders much better than any human powered mountain bike.Watch some Full size trials bikes do it someday.At a nearby breakwater made of 4-8 ft bolders I have done the whole harbor breakwater on my ebike a couple of times without touching my feet down. It really takes a plan of attack and reliable smooth throttle power to do it.Larger tires would also help but riding rocks can ruin any bike or body with a single mistake..Enjoy the vid.The road has more rocks and ruts than you may think.On a motorcycle I have eaten it on these pinapple roads and mountain trails too many times already and tiny bicycle tires are not as forgiving espically when this red clay gets wet at all.This is why I go semi slow most of the time.My racing days are over.Too many broken bones is the lesson.On this clip you can see poping the wheel up is not a problem at any speed up to 20 mph.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9047051210592104411
A far cry from what you can do with any mountain bike with any hub motor.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1522254563008289790
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-804894310992755993

http://www.solarnavigator.net/electric_cycles.htm
http://cyclesantamonica.blogspot.com...ainforest.html (http://cyclesantamonica.blogspot.com/2006/08/ebike-rainforest.html)
By the way the four 12 volt Evercel MB-40 batteries are rated at 33 Ah.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/p.../message/14732 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/14732)

SUN CYCLES
Randy Draper, a longtime Napili, Maui resident and tour boat captain, has been experimenting with and inventing ways to harness solar energy for years. In the 1980’s Draper outfitted his house with solar panels and a small windmill; he hasn’t paid an electric utility bill since. Realizing the potential of the sun’s energy, Draper continued experimenting, at one point crossing the ten miles of ocean between Maui and Lanai on a catamaran powered only by solar energy. It is only fitting that his most recent achievement was climbing the 37 miles to the top of 10,000 foot Mt. Haleakala, which means “house of the Sun,” on a solar powered bike. Haleakala boasts the steepest road in the world based on vertical climb over distance. Draper chose the annual “Cycle to the Sun” race to test his bike. After starting at the rear of the “human powered” pack, he reached the top of Haleakala in little over three hours, at an average speed of 12 miles per hour. Draper, whose vision is millions of clean, efficient, and affordable solar bikes being used as transportation worldwide, is in the process of pitching his technology to prospective manufacturers and investors.

http://www.hightechmaui.com/htmnews/.../HTM_Spr04.pdf (http://www.hightechmaui.com/htmnews/archives/HTM_Spr04.pdf)


If this is not a worlds record then tell me who has done better in a ev elevation climb.Who has even made a 6800 ft climb in a EV or on a electric bike? Possibably 2 worlds records here that are documented by a race staff and published. I also have Video documentation of these rides using a single set of batteries and a single charge that was done at my home from SOLAR Power only.. WITHOUT the use of lithium batteries.
Attached Thumbnailshttp://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=59257&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1195717978 (http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=59257&d=1195717978) http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=59258&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1195718983 (http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=59258&d=1195718983)



http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=562