Cyclocross - Mini V...Recommended

After enduring the stock avid 4s and switching to BR550s (mild improvement) I still had poor braking and extreme fork juddering (outright hazardous in the wet). Had given up and was about to sell my JTS. Instead, I took the plunge and got tektro mini vees installed. In a word: AWESOME! Powerful, good modulation, no squeaking (yet) and no freakin juddery fork syndrome at all. No need for travel agents, same clearance as the canti's I had. Run, do not walk, to your LBS and make the switch! :D
Thanks to Elmar and others on this forum for encouraging the move :)

Congrats on the brakes. I was considering Campy Veloce mini-v's on one of my rides. A quick question, Do you have a carbon or steel fork?

Tim

Carbon...Easton EA70 thingy

Carbon...Easton EA70 thingy

Seems like of most of the riders who complain of brake shudder have carbon forks. You never hear about it with steel forks. I believe it's the flex factor of carbon.

Tim

Heh heh, I knew it was a loaded question ;) Not entirely true though, a quick search for "shudder" shows there's a instances of steel/al forks doing the shimmy. Either way, worked for me, and mini vs are cheaper than forks...

Heh heh, I knew it was a loaded question ;) Not entirely true though, a quick search for "shudder" shows there's a instances of steel/al forks doing the shimmy. Either way, worked for me, and mini vs are cheaper than forks...

No, not really. You don't hear about it with high quality CF forks.

Tim

another very satisfied mini-v customer. I am using them on a Scattante cross frame/carbon fork with Cane Creek levers and Velocity aerohead rims with stock brake pads. Awesome brakes. Smooth, easy to adjust, no shudder and tons of power.

Sorry about digging up an old thread...

...but, for those of you using mini-v's, it seems Tektro offers 2 versions: 80mm and 85mm arms. Is one preferable to the other?

pictures, anyone?

pictures, anyone?

here ya go.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1394/1374392031_a533c42af9.jpg
they are cheap, too. less than $10/each dealer cost

Err? Ummm? Mini V's work with road levers?

Cool!

I too was surprised to hear tales of road lever awesomeness sans travel agents. But such tales exist, in this very forum. Including a gentleman named Elmar in Germany who says that everyone on his team is running them. Other posters have tried them. The Specialized Tricross line for '08 is spec'd with mini-v's.

A quick forum search of the term "mini-v" will reveal several threads.

Campy makes a couple versions, Mirage (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Mirage-Mini-V-Brake-set-front-rear-85mm_W0QQitemZ290152425289QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) and Veloce (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Veloce-mini-V-Brake-front-rear-NEW_W0QQitemZ290125247136QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem). Tektro is also in this business, making mini-v's in 2 sizes. 80mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-Cyclocross-Alloy-Mini-V-Brake-2-Pairs-Black_W0QQitemZ170148893164QQihZ007QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and 85mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-F-R-Set-Silver_W0QQitemZ220149041913QQihZ012QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). The Tektro's are inexpensive enough to test the whole Ergo lever-mini v-no adapter thing for myself...

So, back to my original reason for dusting off this old thread... which size works best?

I too was surprised to hear tales of road lever awesomeness sans travel agents. But such tales exist, in this very forum. Including a gentleman named Elmar in Germany who says that everyone on his team is running them. Other posters have tried them. The Specialized Tricross line for '08 is spec'd with mini-v's.

A quick forum search of the term "mini-v" will reveal several threads.

Campy makes a couple versions, Mirage (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Mirage-Mini-V-Brake-set-front-rear-85mm_W0QQitemZ290152425289QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) and Veloce (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Veloce-mini-V-Brake-front-rear-NEW_W0QQitemZ290125247136QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem). Tektro is also in this business, making mini-v's in 2 sizes. 80mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-Cyclocross-Alloy-Mini-V-Brake-2-Pairs-Black_W0QQitemZ170148893164QQihZ007QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and 85mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-F-R-Set-Silver_W0QQitemZ220149041913QQihZ012QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). The Tektro's are inexpensive enough to test the whole Ergo lever-mini v-no adapter thing for myself...

So, back to my original reason for dusting off this old thread... which size works best?

Campy seems to be using the 85mm size. I would try that first.

Tim

I too was surprised to hear tales of road lever awesomeness sans travel agents. But such tales exist, in this very forum. Including a gentleman named Elmar in Germany who says that everyone on his team is running them. Other posters have tried them. The Specialized Tricross line for '08 is spec'd with mini-v's.

A quick forum search of the term "mini-v" will reveal several threads.

Campy makes a couple versions, Mirage (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Mirage-Mini-V-Brake-set-front-rear-85mm_W0QQitemZ290152425289QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) and Veloce (http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Veloce-mini-V-Brake-front-rear-NEW_W0QQitemZ290125247136QQihZ019QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem). Tektro is also in this business, making mini-v's in 2 sizes. 80mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-Cyclocross-Alloy-Mini-V-Brake-2-Pairs-Black_W0QQitemZ170148893164QQihZ007QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and 85mm (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-F-R-Set-Silver_W0QQitemZ220149041913QQihZ012QQcategoryZ42331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). The Tektro's are inexpensive enough to test the whole Ergo lever-mini v-no adapter thing for myself...

So, back to my original reason for dusting off this old thread... which size works best?

the Ebay listing for the 80mm states that you have to use the adapter............
I don't see the reference in the 85mm listing.
not sure if that is the smoking gun, but I would like to hear the setup /effectiveness of a 85 mm set to road levers.

Hello, I am currently using the Tektro RX5, which have the 85mm brake arm length, and am running them with my Shimano Dura ace Sti levers(9spd). When I have them dialed in, they have about 2-3 mm of clearance between the rim and the brake pads. I am using the noodles with the built in adjustable barrel so that I can adjust the brakes during a race. At the Suckerbrook cross race last weekend, which was totally dry, the brakes worked really great, and I did not have the hand fatigue I usually do with Empellas or Shimano BR550's. I noticed that once in a while if I was really rocking the bike, I could hear the rim scraping against the pads. This morning, I was riding in some really wet, grassy conditions, and the braking was near perfect, but as can be imagined, crap gets caught between the rim and the brakes and the wheel was not spinning freely after an hour of working out. Also, I noticed significant wear on my SwissStop pads. This week I will get the wheels completely trued so that there is no excessive rubbing. I have this set up both on the pit bike and race bike. I love how streamlined the bike looks without the cable hanger. I will post some pictures of the set up tonight on my blog...

http://japanesecyclocross.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the help guys. I bought a set of the RX-5s (85mm), and I should have them set up by the end of the week, with Veloce 9sp Ergo's actuating the brakes. I'll report back, just so other people know. Maybe later, since it's so inexpensive, I'll get a pair of the 80mm levers and compare the performance. I'm scientific like that.

Edit: anyone got a source for those adjustable noodles? Just in case.

I bought mine from a place called http://www.biketoolsetc.com/

www.Aebike.com has this also.

Good luck! I wonder if they will ever come out with a Mini Travel agent for Mini V-brakes which can be mounted near the handlebar to prevent mud clogging so that you can have a ton of clearance.

Thanks for the links.

Travel agents are just pulleys that change the cable pull, so it would be fairly simple to machine/manufacture a lever mounted version, I would think.

Get thee to a patent office quick, yash.

On many of the sites I have been to, I have read that a travel agent is not necessary, but I feel like if Problem Solvers came up with one that was supersleek, light and pulled the correct amount of cable, V-brakes as well as Mini V-brakes would become more of an alternative to expensive Cantis. You could have a pretty nice brakeset for less than $40!

i had the 80 mm tektros. Lever pull was horrible. Way squishy and long. Ended up going back to cantis

I am considering some for my Trek 520. It has 287-V's with avid single digit 5's. It is still a bit squishy and the pads need to be pretty close to the rim. I am wondering if the mini V's which require less mechanical advantage than the average V might help.

Hold on a cotton pickin'.

Are Mini-V's legal for racing? Not that I race, or even own a CX bike. Just wondering.

Hold on a cotton pickin'.

Are Mini-V's legal for racing? Not that I race, or even own a CX bike. Just wondering.

I believe they are. I picked up a used pro frame that had mini-Vs.

I thinking of making the jump from cantilever to mini-v's, but I confused about the 85mm length preference, and to make it worse, Tektro has just updated the RX5 to 90mm (see their website).

If a standard v-brake of apx. 100mm requires a travel agent to effectively lengthen the cable pull, and 85mm min-v's still require the brake pad adjustment to be very close to the rim and the braking force of the 85mm is not quite progressive enough, why wouldn't the 80mm mini-v's work better? The only negative of the 80mm over the 85mm would be reduced braking power due to the reduction in the brake arm and maybe less clearance for a larger diameter tire.

Has anyone tried both and come to a conclusion?

I just set up some RX-5s (oem from ebay so probably the old type) with Cane Creek's Drop V levers on my Rob Roy. Way, way better stopping power than the CC SCX-5 cantis on my crosscheck, and no squealing so far.

+ 1 for the Mini-Vs
I've had the 85mm version on my Poprad for about 2 months now and they have been great--much better than my Avid 4s in both wet and dry conditions. I have run Ergolevers without a travel agent without problems. I have an older Poprad with a 1" steerer and had quite a bit of fork judder with the Avid cantis and my steel fork (yes, it happens with steel, too). I had to toe-in the Avids so far to eliminate it that I lost a fair amount of braking power.
I concur with the statement made earlier: Don't walk, run (or ride fast) to you LBS and pick up a pair. For the price you can try them out and if you're not 100% thrilled, you can send them to me so I can put them on another bike.

85mm are best .

I'm trying to outfit my Giant TCX1 with the Tektro RX5's. The bike will be running SRAM Rival '08 when these go on.

If I buy these (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-F-R-Set-Black_W0QQitemZ370119859121QQihZ024QQcategoryZ42331QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262#Shipping Payment) - the RX5 with 85mm arms - is tire size an issue? I run Kenda Small Block Eights, 700x35 and would like to keep them.

I need absolutely no mud clearance.

Thanks!

I'm trying to outfit my Giant TCX1 with the Tektro RX5's. The bike will be running SRAM Rival '08 when these go on.

If I buy these (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-F-R-Set-Black_W0QQitemZ370119859121QQihZ024QQcategoryZ42331QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262#Shipping Payment) - the RX5 with 85mm arms - is tire size an issue? I run Kenda Small Block Eights, 700x35 and would like to keep them.

I need absolutely no mud clearance.

Thanks!

35mm SB8's should be a non issue. Here is a picture (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YQni6Sqs8D0Z3WvUR97RrA) of RX5's clearing a 44mm Mutanoraptor with ease. The cable is about the same height (maybe a tiny bit lower) than I typically run the straddle carrier for normal cantis.

35mm SB8's should be a non issue. Here is a picture (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YQni6Sqs8D0Z3WvUR97RrA) of RX5's clearing a 44mm Mutanoraptor with ease. The cable is about the same height (maybe a tiny bit lower) than I typically run the straddle carrier for normal cantis.

Nice. Good to hear. Thanks.

I read all the recommendations of Tektro Mini-V brakes and bought some for my Cross Check build. My positive experiences with V-brakes in the MTB world motiviated me to give them a try. Maybe I'm not the sharpest mechanic but I hated them - the modulation was terrible and they were difficult to setup. I threw them out and installed Tektro canti brakes (CR720) and have been very happy.

i have the 85's front and rear using tektro drop levers designed to work with v brakes. Without dedicated levers or travel agents there is no way you have enough room between the rim and pads to race any east coast cross race. with ultegra levers there was no way possible to run these, unless you feel lever pulled to the bars to apply slight pressure is acceptable.
the tektro levers have the WORST ergonomics i have ever seen. i would buy the cane creeks again if i were to stay with v brakes. They have very narrow sharp knife-edged hoods that blow my mind at how atrocious they feel. the brakes stop great i will say, and much less to snag a heel or leg on them as opposed to canti's. I have a tremendous amount of fork shudder no matter what trick i try on the fronts. toe in, toe out, swiss stops, stock pads, sanded rim, etc. steel fork btw.

I read all the recommendations of Tektro Mini-V brakes and bought some for my Cross Check build. My positive experiences with V-brakes in the MTB world motiviated me to give them a try. Maybe I'm not the sharpest mechanic but I hated them - the modulation was terrible and they were difficult to setup. I threw them out and installed Tektro canti brakes (CR720) and have been very happy.If you want to use direct pull brakes with short-pull levers, you should a travel agent. Why? http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html#levers

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/heatherandsteve/fall2008/IMG_2461.jpg

If you want to use direct pull brakes with short-pull levers, you should a travel agent. Why? http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html#levers



Drop-bar Workarounds
If you want to use Ergo or STI brifters with direct-pull cantis, there are two workarounds available:
You can use a pulley-device, such as the QBP Travel Agent. These are a bit of a hassle to set up, but do work.
If you have a bike with skinny tires and no fenders, there are "shorty" direct-pull cantis that are more-or-less compatible with drop bar levers.
Neither of these systems is ideal, and neither is really any better than traditional center-pull cantilevers.

I think the key statement by Sheldon is
Neither of these systems is ideal, and neither is really any better than traditional center-pull cantilevers.

What he's saying is they aren't any better than a good set of cantis. So, IMO, invest the time and effort into learing how to set up cantilever brakes. Good luck on whatever you choose.

What he's saying is they aren't any better than a good set of cantis. So, IMO, invest the time and effort into learing how to set up cantilever brakes. Good luck on whatever you choose.With all due respect I disagree with Sheldon and AFAIK he never used a sub-500g all-carbon fork. I had all kinds of brake squeal, both I and my LBS tried all kind of tweaking, which helped a bit but never solved it. I skeptically tried the mini-V with travel agent, et voila. Perfect modulation, no squeal, no hassles. I now run the mini-V in front and canti in back.

The whole "set up the cantis correctly" is nothing more than No True Scotsman. Check the audio on the next Superprestige telecast, you discover that even pros with pro mechanics have serious issues with canti brake squeal.

If you are not having squeal issues with your cantis (like me when I had a stout steel fork), by all means use them.

With all due respect I disagree with Sheldon and AFAIK he never used a sub-500g all-carbon fork. I had all kinds of brake squeal, both I and my LBS tried all kind of tweaking, which helped a bit but never solved it. I skeptically tried the mini-V with travel agent, et voila. Perfect modulation, no squeal, no hassles. I now run the mini-V in front and canti in back.

The whole "set up the cantis correctly" is nothing more than No True Scotsman. Check the audio on the next Superprestige telecast, you discover that even pros with pro mechanics have serious issues with canti brake squeal.

If you are not having squeal issues with your cantis (like me when I had a stout steel fork), by all means use them.

Why not front and rear?

I bought Tektro mini-v brakes for my Fuji Cross that came with Avid Shorty 4s. The front brake I just slapped on the thing, adjusted the cable and instant improvement. There is more travel to the brake lever which took a little adjustment on my part, but it does not bottom out against the bar or lack braking power compared to the canti.

On the rear, however, I could not get the mini-v adjusted....there was always to much pull in the cable. My 2-second thought is that the extra cable compared to the front is giving too much stretch or something. I've bought a travel agent for the back and will install it during the Christmas break.

Why not front and rear?They sell the mini-Vs individually and I don't have squeal in the rear.

Another vote for horrible: I installed a pair of Tektro mini Vs (not sure on the length) on my Surly forked Gunnar in an attempt to fix some brake judder with the Avid Shorty 4s. Even with a micrometer of clearance between the pad and rim, the lever pull was still huge. Braking power was OK, but not worth the setup hassles. I ended up replacing them with some Tektro Oryx cantis, which have done much better.

Another vote for horrible: I installed a pair of Tektro mini Vs (not sure on the length) on my Surly forked Gunnar in an attempt to fix some brake judder with the Avid Shorty 4s. Even with a micrometer of clearance between the pad and rim, the lever pull was still huge.I guess you didn't bother reading the instructions that came with the brakes, which clearly state that you're supposed to use long-pull levers. Nor bothered to read this thread.

I guess you didn't bother reading the instructions that came with the brakes, which clearly state that you're supposed to use long-pull levers. Nor bothered to read this thread.

Doesn't Tektro make a set of long pull levers for drop bars? That would rule out Ergo/STI's being used. But, I prefer barcons.

Doesn't Tektro make a set of long pull levers for drop bars? That would rule out Ergo/STI's being used. But, I prefer barcons.RL520, also rebadged by Cane Creek and called "Drop V". For cross I run 1x10, so next year I'll probably use a long-pull lever instead of travel agent.

Travel agent, though, works excellently. Less friction than a noodle. Just a bit kludgey-looking, is all.

Specialized now specs mini-vs on the Tricross with "road" levers. How horrible could it be? Would a company of Specialized's stature open themselves up to lawsuits simply to eliminate brake squeal? I think not.

I intend to try this setup someday soon. For those who complain about lever pull, I wonder how their levers are typically set up. I've noticed that, anymore, most bike shops set up bikes so that the brakes grab and lock within the first fractions of the lever's possible travel. I set mine up so that the brakes lock with the levers just shy of touching the bars. That way I get more modulation, and more stopping power as I can close my fist around the levers, rather than hanging on with my fingertips to levers that won't close down any further.

intend to try this setup someday soon. For those who complain about lever pull, I wonder how their levers are typically set up. I've noticed that, anymore, most bike shops set up bikes so that the brakes grab and lock within the first fractions of the lever's possible travel. I set mine up so that the brakes lock with the levers just shy of touching the bars. That way I get more modulation, and more stopping power as I can close my fist around the levers, rather than hanging on with my fingertips to levers that won't close down any further.I don't think you are fully grokking the issue, and I'm not sure I (or you) understand what you mean by "modulation".

If you are using short pull levers with V brakes, you need to set the pads very close to the rims, because the levers just don't pull enough cable. In other words, you get very little modulation of the brakes.

For off-road use, where mud, sand, and out-of-true wheels are everyday problems, most folks want the pads to start farther away from the rim.