ignominious
08-06-07, 12:37 PM
I take mine off every time. I get tired of them working themselves loose and making a noise. I've never noticed an increase in danger to myself by not having them when riding at night.
View Full Version : spoke reflectors, use them or lose them
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littlewaywelt
08-06-07, 01:39 PM
I don't get the arguments against. As unlikely as a t-bone is, it's still possible and spoke reflectors do increase lateral visibility from many angles. Anything that increases visibility, even incrementally is worth it. Add up all those small things and all of a sudden you're a rolling Christmas tree that makes a driver say "what was that?" and pay attention.
joejack951
08-06-07, 02:04 PM
I don't know about the US, but here in Sweden, almost all bike-car collisions are 90-degree hits. Car driving down the street, bike coming from the side. Spoke reflectors help a lot here. Getting hit from behind is so rare as to be negligible.
Why again am I riding across the path of a moving vehicle without verifying right of way first? Seem like spoke reflectors might help someone out who's made a bad a mistake but left enough time for the potential collider to avoid a collision. But it would seem to me though that at the distance away that spoke reflectors might come into play when a cyclist has pulled out in front of traffic in such a way as to cause a hazard is a distance at which a car's headlights would easily illuminate the entire cyclist's body. Spoke reflectors or not, you are counting on the reaction time of the driver to save your butt.
Why again am I riding across the path of a moving vehicle without verifying right of way first? Seem like spoke reflectors might help someone out who's made a bad a mistake but left enough time for the potential collider to avoid a collision. But it would seem to me though that at the distance away that spoke reflectors might come into play when a cyclist has pulled out in front of traffic in such a way as to cause a hazard is a distance at which a car's headlights would easily illuminate the entire cyclist's body. Spoke reflectors or not, you are counting on the reaction time of the driver to save your butt.
FixdGearHead
08-06-07, 02:07 PM
Interesting article "Why reflectors don't work (http://sheldonbrown.com/reflectors.html)"
littlewaywelt
08-06-07, 03:04 PM
Interesting article "Why reflectors don't work (http://sheldonbrown.com/reflectors.html)"
Yes, quite interesting, but it's worth noting, the article provides no reason why you wouldn't employ reflectors. Even if they only worked 1% of the time, 1% is more than none, and they are certainly much more effective than 1% of the time. The article also fails to point out sufficiently, that the more reflectors you have one your bike the more visibile you are from different angles.
Yes, quite interesting, but it's worth noting, the article provides no reason why you wouldn't employ reflectors. Even if they only worked 1% of the time, 1% is more than none, and they are certainly much more effective than 1% of the time. The article also fails to point out sufficiently, that the more reflectors you have one your bike the more visibile you are from different angles.
FixdGearHead
08-06-07, 03:27 PM
Yes, quite interesting, but it's worth noting, the article provides no reason why you wouldn't employ reflectors. Even if they only worked 1% of the time, 1% is more than none, and they are certainly much more effective than 1% of the time. The article also fails to point out sufficiently, that the more reflectors you have one your bike the more visibile you are from different angles.
Certainly.
Essentially, it's stating that reflectors on your wheels alone is not sufficient...advising that people set up their bike like a Xmas tree.
Certainly.
Essentially, it's stating that reflectors on your wheels alone is not sufficient...advising that people set up their bike like a Xmas tree.
Raiyn
08-07-07, 03:57 PM
I don't know about the US, but here in Sweden, almost all bike-car collisions are 90-degree hits. Car driving down the street, bike coming from the side. Spoke reflectors help a lot here. Getting hit from behind is so rare as to be negligible.
That's a load of hooey. By the time spoke reflectors are in the beam of a car headlight the bike's already directly ahead of the car and the car may already be too close to stop (or far enough away to where it's not a threat). Car headlights provide much more warning to the rider than the spoke reflectors do to the driver. Getting hit from the side, particularly at night with the car's lights on, is almost always the cyclist's fault.
Depending on the local laws where you live, it may not be a legal substitute. Check your state/provencial/local traffic laws as they pertain to bikes.
I've checked quite a few states and there's no law that I've found stating that the reflective material had to be a plastic reflector or even CPSC spec, so long as the material used meets the visibility requirements (sometimes the measurement of the area of reflective material is listed as a minimum standard) set forth by the state / province. (Occasionally they require red stuff to the rear, and I usually suggest it as a matter of course)
More often than not they're more concerned with lights being of the proper color and visibility than reflectors.
Reflective tape is not a good substitute as it won't move with the wheel (and therefore make you appear less like a bike to other road users)Bull*******
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2136/withlightwe8.jpg (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=297284)
When applied to the rim as shown (the pic is a link) the reflective tape is MORE USEFUL than a CPSC reflector because it actually registers at the angle a car is more likely to approach a legally riding cyclist - from behind at an angle. I assure you it does move with the wheel and it does work much better than the plastic crap sold with bikes
and it could very well be illegal,Fear mongering much? :lol: I've yet to come across any laws against using reflective tape as a supplement to a light system to make you more visible, quite the contrary in fact.
even if it should happen to be a good reflector (I have a roll of very good amber reflective tape, but I've yet to find a suitable location).
How about on your bike?
I don't get the arguments against. As unlikely as a t-bone is, it's still possible and spoke reflectors do increase lateral visibility from many angles. Not as much as tape does. The problem with CPSC reflectors is that they're either flat or of the "three angle" variety which means that if the light isn't directly on the facet of the reflector it's not going to reflect back strongly to the source or the driver's eyes. Reflective tape gets around this due to it's nature. It's more likely to be picked up at angles where the plastics would simply be missed. This is particularly true on a round frame tube, but can be shown on a flat surface
Anything that increases visibility, even incrementally is worth it. I agree to a point. Plastic reflectors have a few drawbacks that the tape just doesn't.
Plastic reflectors break. If you break the tape, chances are you've got bigger issues
Plastic reflectors are either flat or "3 angle" Tape can mold itself to round tubes making the approach angle more or less irrelevant
Plastic doesn't have the visability to weight ratio that a good tape does
Add up all those small things and all of a sudden you're a rolling Christmas tree that makes a driver say "what was that?" and pay attention.
Little things can go a long way.
That's a load of hooey. By the time spoke reflectors are in the beam of a car headlight the bike's already directly ahead of the car and the car may already be too close to stop (or far enough away to where it's not a threat). Car headlights provide much more warning to the rider than the spoke reflectors do to the driver. Getting hit from the side, particularly at night with the car's lights on, is almost always the cyclist's fault.
Depending on the local laws where you live, it may not be a legal substitute. Check your state/provencial/local traffic laws as they pertain to bikes.
I've checked quite a few states and there's no law that I've found stating that the reflective material had to be a plastic reflector or even CPSC spec, so long as the material used meets the visibility requirements (sometimes the measurement of the area of reflective material is listed as a minimum standard) set forth by the state / province. (Occasionally they require red stuff to the rear, and I usually suggest it as a matter of course)
More often than not they're more concerned with lights being of the proper color and visibility than reflectors.
Reflective tape is not a good substitute as it won't move with the wheel (and therefore make you appear less like a bike to other road users)Bull*******
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2136/withlightwe8.jpg (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=297284)
When applied to the rim as shown (the pic is a link) the reflective tape is MORE USEFUL than a CPSC reflector because it actually registers at the angle a car is more likely to approach a legally riding cyclist - from behind at an angle. I assure you it does move with the wheel and it does work much better than the plastic crap sold with bikes
and it could very well be illegal,Fear mongering much? :lol: I've yet to come across any laws against using reflective tape as a supplement to a light system to make you more visible, quite the contrary in fact.
even if it should happen to be a good reflector (I have a roll of very good amber reflective tape, but I've yet to find a suitable location).
How about on your bike?
I don't get the arguments against. As unlikely as a t-bone is, it's still possible and spoke reflectors do increase lateral visibility from many angles. Not as much as tape does. The problem with CPSC reflectors is that they're either flat or of the "three angle" variety which means that if the light isn't directly on the facet of the reflector it's not going to reflect back strongly to the source or the driver's eyes. Reflective tape gets around this due to it's nature. It's more likely to be picked up at angles where the plastics would simply be missed. This is particularly true on a round frame tube, but can be shown on a flat surface
Anything that increases visibility, even incrementally is worth it. I agree to a point. Plastic reflectors have a few drawbacks that the tape just doesn't.
Plastic reflectors break. If you break the tape, chances are you've got bigger issues
Plastic reflectors are either flat or "3 angle" Tape can mold itself to round tubes making the approach angle more or less irrelevant
Plastic doesn't have the visability to weight ratio that a good tape does
Add up all those small things and all of a sudden you're a rolling Christmas tree that makes a driver say "what was that?" and pay attention.
Little things can go a long way.
littlewaywelt
08-08-07, 09:05 AM
+1
That's exactly why my bike (including rims) is covered in tape. I do believe it's more effective than reflectors, but the reflectors can't hurt. Solve or address a problem from as many directions as possible: reflectors, lights, tape, clothing.
Even if a driver wasn't able to avoid a collision and only saw spoke reflectors as you cross in front of him, his knocking just 5mph off the collision speed could substantially reduce the impact force delivered to your body.
That's exactly why my bike (including rims) is covered in tape. I do believe it's more effective than reflectors, but the reflectors can't hurt. Solve or address a problem from as many directions as possible: reflectors, lights, tape, clothing.
Even if a driver wasn't able to avoid a collision and only saw spoke reflectors as you cross in front of him, his knocking just 5mph off the collision speed could substantially reduce the impact force delivered to your body.
soze
08-08-07, 05:20 PM
My wheels didn't come with any, but I've removed them from previous wheelsets after seeing a guy endo because his front reflector twisted and jammed in his fork. I use single-spoke clip on thingies that won't kill me on the front, and a reflective spoke card in the rear (the clip on thingies kept smacking my chainstays), in addition to my lights.
Six jours
08-08-07, 05:35 PM
Good lord. Now you folks are at each other's throats over reflectors, for chrisakes.
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
eubi
08-09-07, 12:42 PM
Good lord. Now you folks are at each other's throats over reflectors, for chrisakes.
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
Hahaha. You're new here, huh?
Well, some people that say the spoke reflectors are worthless. OK, but in my town that's about all the lighting some of the guys riding at night have.
Guys like Forrester are looking for perfection, or the item isn't worth using. That's unrealistic. If that's the case none of us should be riding bikes...or driving cars...:D
I find the movement of a spoke reflector at night attracts my attention well before I would spot the bike with no reflectors. The cycloid curve the reflectors follow is very distinctive and identifies the reflectors as being on a bicycle.
At least to me...
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
Hahaha. You're new here, huh?
Well, some people that say the spoke reflectors are worthless. OK, but in my town that's about all the lighting some of the guys riding at night have.
Guys like Forrester are looking for perfection, or the item isn't worth using. That's unrealistic. If that's the case none of us should be riding bikes...or driving cars...:D
I find the movement of a spoke reflector at night attracts my attention well before I would spot the bike with no reflectors. The cycloid curve the reflectors follow is very distinctive and identifies the reflectors as being on a bicycle.
At least to me...
SDRider
08-09-07, 01:34 PM
None of my bikes have reflectors. During the winter months though when I'm commuting after dark I wear reflective clothing and I have bright lights front and rear to increase visibility.
Actually, none of the wheels I have came with reflectors anyway. One one set the decals are reflective though so I guess that counts.
Actually, none of the wheels I have came with reflectors anyway. One one set the decals are reflective though so I guess that counts.
ericthered
08-17-07, 10:30 AM
I inherited on my commuter a set of spoke reflectors that are just thin tubes that snap around 4 spokes on each wheel and are made of refelctive material. They are a couple of mm thick so they do not add vey much air resistence compared to the clip on badge reflectors. I could not find an example or picture on the web nor ever seen any others. I guess it is not much different then wrapping a spoke in reflective tape.
Eric
Eric
tallard
08-17-07, 11:41 AM
I bought a set of Tireflys for 7$ off Ebay last month but have not installed them yet (duh!) But they do seem to answer all the challenges posed by those large plastic reflectors.
For those who haven't seen them yet, they're valve cap replacements with battery operated neon lights activated by motion. they come in both valve types and in many colours, and they're barely twice as big as the original valve cap. They offer little wind resistance, can be seen from all angles, offer two clear circles of light.
I am under the impression that these gadgets are pretty new to the market, so they may not have good built -in durability yet, but I bet think with time, they could be great.
For those who haven't seen them yet, they're valve cap replacements with battery operated neon lights activated by motion. they come in both valve types and in many colours, and they're barely twice as big as the original valve cap. They offer little wind resistance, can be seen from all angles, offer two clear circles of light.
I am under the impression that these gadgets are pretty new to the market, so they may not have good built -in durability yet, but I bet think with time, they could be great.
tiztim
08-23-07, 07:09 PM
I keep them and use reflective tape all over the place, along with the reflective sidewalls of my tires, the reflective stripes on my fenders, reflective clothing, etc.
I don't care about aerodynamics or weight, nor do I ride off-road.
Seems to me you're protected in the unlikely situation a vehicle approaches you perpendicular to your line of travel. This is why I don't use spoke reflectors and similar. To my view a bright red light visible to drivers of overtaking traffic is most effective in preserving life and limb. Effective too but secondarily so is a light visible to oncoming traffic. Riding legally and predictably with consideration and understanding of drivers' expectations is a safe practice. Many of our cycling fatalities involve wrong-way and/or unlit riding. Cyclists and drivers all have the obligation and responsibility to ride legally and alertly.
I don't care about aerodynamics or weight, nor do I ride off-road.
Seems to me you're protected in the unlikely situation a vehicle approaches you perpendicular to your line of travel. This is why I don't use spoke reflectors and similar. To my view a bright red light visible to drivers of overtaking traffic is most effective in preserving life and limb. Effective too but secondarily so is a light visible to oncoming traffic. Riding legally and predictably with consideration and understanding of drivers' expectations is a safe practice. Many of our cycling fatalities involve wrong-way and/or unlit riding. Cyclists and drivers all have the obligation and responsibility to ride legally and alertly.
cadillacmike68
08-23-07, 09:15 PM
I had the bikc shop remove all the reflectors when i bought it (29 years ago) . I don't ride at night though and i keep me bike clean and shiny!
Bekologist
08-24-07, 12:05 AM
I come across situations EVERY night I ride where spoke reflectors and side reflectivity enhances my safety as a bicyclist.
divergence
08-24-07, 11:17 AM
Good lord. Now you folks are at each other's throats over reflectors, for chrisakes.
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
Those little washers that fit on valve stems. We've never fought about those things yet.
Is there anything the A&S holes won't fight about?
Those little washers that fit on valve stems. We've never fought about those things yet.
I-Like-To-Bike
08-24-07, 11:25 AM
Those little washers that fit on valve stems. We've never fought about those things yet.
That's because John Forester hasn't issued an Encyclical of VC doctrine on the subject, providing the Truth for his Apostles to train the "incompetent."
That's because John Forester hasn't issued an Encyclical of VC doctrine on the subject, providing the Truth for his Apostles to train the "incompetent."
KonradNYC
08-24-07, 11:46 AM
I use Lightweights.
http://www.lightweights.org/
They are little pieces of reflective tape that wrap around your spokes. They are better than plastic spoke reflectors for a few reasons:
- Because the tape is wrapped around the spoke, they are visible from any angle, unlike plastic reflectors which are only visible from the side.
- They create a complete circle of reflected light when the wheel is in motion (this is good because its more recognizable as a wheel, and cannot be blocked by panniers).
- Unlike plastic reflectors, they cannot fall off and jam your wheel and break your spokes.
- They weigh less.
- They are more discrete, giving the wheel a similar appearance as a wheel without reflectors.
Check out the video:
http://www.lightweights.org/images/lightweights.swf
http://www.lightweights.org/
They are little pieces of reflective tape that wrap around your spokes. They are better than plastic spoke reflectors for a few reasons:
- Because the tape is wrapped around the spoke, they are visible from any angle, unlike plastic reflectors which are only visible from the side.
- They create a complete circle of reflected light when the wheel is in motion (this is good because its more recognizable as a wheel, and cannot be blocked by panniers).
- Unlike plastic reflectors, they cannot fall off and jam your wheel and break your spokes.
- They weigh less.
- They are more discrete, giving the wheel a similar appearance as a wheel without reflectors.
Check out the video:
http://www.lightweights.org/images/lightweights.swf
ghettocruiser
08-24-07, 12:24 PM
I am under the impression that these gadgets are pretty new to the market, so they may not have good built -in durability yet, but I bet think with time, they could be great.
Their biggest problem is their waterproofness, or their complete lack of it.
Their biggest problem is their waterproofness, or their complete lack of it.
tallard
08-24-07, 12:35 PM
Their biggest problem is their waterproofness, or their complete lack of it.
oh thanks, I was wondering when someone would get back to me on these :)
I'll heed your warning about the waterproof part and paint them with clear nailpolish when I finally install them (I'm away from my own bike for a while :( )
may I ask which brand and model you've used? Did you like them other than water dammage?
oh thanks, I was wondering when someone would get back to me on these :)
I'll heed your warning about the waterproof part and paint them with clear nailpolish when I finally install them (I'm away from my own bike for a while :( )
may I ask which brand and model you've used? Did you like them other than water dammage?
ghettocruiser
08-24-07, 12:59 PM
may I ask which brand and model you've used? Did you like them other than water dammage?
Pretty sure they were the actual "tire fly" brand. They were a bit distracting on the front wheel. They really show up. Since they got full of water the batteries have been dead, and I haven't used them all summer. Fall is coming though, maybe I'll replace the batteries and throw them back on.
Pretty sure they were the actual "tire fly" brand. They were a bit distracting on the front wheel. They really show up. Since they got full of water the batteries have been dead, and I haven't used them all summer. Fall is coming though, maybe I'll replace the batteries and throw them back on.
cadillacmike68
08-29-07, 08:04 PM
1. I don't ride at night
2. I don't ride in the rain
That said I can't remember if my bike came with spoke reflectors or not, but I did have the bike store remove every reflector from the bike befire i took delivery of it in '78. I left the front and rear main reflectors on my wife's bike but if there were spoke reflectors on her bike they've been gone for 20 years as well. I think I'll remove here rear reflector soon because her new seat has this huge reflector built into it.
I've ridden bikes with spoke reflectors - they really unbalance the wheel.
2. I don't ride in the rain
That said I can't remember if my bike came with spoke reflectors or not, but I did have the bike store remove every reflector from the bike befire i took delivery of it in '78. I left the front and rear main reflectors on my wife's bike but if there were spoke reflectors on her bike they've been gone for 20 years as well. I think I'll remove here rear reflector soon because her new seat has this huge reflector built into it.
I've ridden bikes with spoke reflectors - they really unbalance the wheel.
edzo
08-30-07, 06:12 AM
reflective tape squares on helmet, crank, seatstay, front fork
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