Advocacy & Safety - spoke reflectors, use them or lose them

Hi all,
I got curious. I checked and couldn't find a poll for this one. What is your opinion of spoke reflectors. I see the point of trying to increase aerodynamics by taking them off. But I also want to see what everyone uses for safety.

Russ B

I wouldn't keep them on a racing bike, I suppose, but I ride at night, and because they move, and move fast, they are quite helpful (especially if you don't have side-facing lights, which I don't).

Anyone who removes them for aerodynamic purposes...I'm not sure I buy that so much. :rolleyes:

I don't think I've had spoke reflectors since I was 10. I always use lights at night, though, front and back, and have panniers with very reflective surfaces. I look like a Christmas tree out there, and I'm pretty sure everyone can see me, even drunk people. But no spoke reflectors.

I've always removed them, personally -- but only on my road bikes. I don't feel I really need to be seen sideways that much. If it was really an issue, I would get tires that have a reflective strip. Now that's effective!

I took all the reflectors off my bike. The front one breaking off started it.

I don't ride at night though.

have them on all my bikes. I add them to wheelsets. There's two on the front wheel of my daily workhorse, one standard, one prysmatic that reflects on the diagonal.

I ride at night, and encounter traffic scenarios on a nightly basis where side visibility is an asset to safety.

removing them for 'aerodynamics?' hmm......

Upgraded my wheels. New one's didn't have 'em. I didn't give it a thought.

I keep them and use reflective tape all over the place, along with the reflective sidewalls of my tires, the reflective stripes on my fenders, reflective clothing, etc.

I don't care about aerodynamics or weight, nor do I ride off-road.

I keep one bike for night riding that has them and lots of other stuff. As I find other spoke reflectors I will use them on that bike.

I doubt you would actually be ticketed for it, but riding a bike without front, back, and side reflectors is technically illegal in most states. Lights are required in a lot of places, too.

I say keep them, unless you ride really rough roads or off-road. They do break and fall off. Maybe take them off and use reflective tape on the fork and chainstays? There's no movement there, though. The roundy-roundy is what makes wheel reflectors effective. Makes it obvious that it's a bike, even if the reflectors are the only thing visible.

i dont use em.

I did get a ticket for not having "reflectors" on my bike one day though. It got thrown out after i demonstrated that my bike (a handbuilt) did not come with reflectors. Nor did my handbuilt wheels.

^ use that to your advantage if you ever get ticketed for no reflectors. :)

I did get a ticket for not having "reflectors" on my bike one day though. It got thrown out after i demonstrated that my bike (a handbuilt) did not come with reflectors. Nor did my handbuilt wheels.
I'm pretty sure you can get the complete set for under 5 bucks. I'm also pretty sure ignorance and laziness wouldn't pass under most circumstances.

I'm pretty sure you can get the complete set for under 5 bucks. I'm also pretty sure ignorance and laziness wouldn't pass under most circumstances.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: read the post again carefully. The ticket was thrown out by a JUDGE after it was determined that the bicycle was not equipped with reflectors from the day of manufacture. By law, bicycles must be equipped with reflectors from the factory. A handbuilt bicycle is exempt of such manufacturing laws, as it is classified as a 'home built". (hand built bikes are exempt if the maker builds less than 100 units a year)

Furthermore, i CHOOSE to not have reflectors on my bike.

Law here requires that you have it all the time, wether your bike was built by a company, by an individual or whoever. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't care if it's from a JUDGE, I CHOOSE to tell you what I think about it and I can read fine, THANKS.

You should have got a "comply or pay" ticket here, not a full blown normal ticket. (which is ridiculous for that)

So, what cool spoke reflectors do you guys/gals use, if you use them at all? I may have to do some surfing to see what I can find. :)
Steven

Law here requires that you have it all the time, wether your bike was built by a company, by an individual or whoever. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't care if it's from a JUDGE, I CHOOSE to tell you what I think about it and I can read fine, THANKS.

You should have got a "comply or pay" ticket here, not a full blown normal ticket. (which is ridiculous for that)


notice i dont live where you do. :D

They break off riding trails and become litter. I take them off and and use the reflective ankle bands when I ride at night. MO law states that a moving reflector must be seen from the front, rear and sides, but it can be on any part of the bicycle or bicyclist.

Hmm. My bikes have reflectors on the spokes, from when I bought them. I never really thought about them one way or the other. I have added reflective tape to the forks and seatstays, and wear a jacket with reflective striping, and I have lights.

I don't imagine that they weigh very much, and I figure the more reflectors the better. The only time I notice or care about them is when I'm locking up and they happen to be in the way.

I've been riding in the dark for years, but I hate spoke reflectors and won't use them. They make the wheels spin funny, and they contribute relatively little to your visibility unless you don't do things you should to be visible anyway.

I wear bright reflective clothing and have good reflective tape where it makes sense. I run HID in front and a NR universal in the rear in bad light conditions though I'll probably upgrade that to Dinotte. Reports I get indicate that I'm very visible from far away.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: read the post again carefully. The ticket was thrown out by a JUDGE after it was determined that the bicycle was not equipped with reflectors from the day of manufacture. By law, bicycles must be equipped with reflectors from the factory. A handbuilt bicycle is exempt of such manufacturing laws, as it is classified as a 'home built". (hand built bikes are exempt if the maker builds less than 100 units a year)

Furthermore, i CHOOSE to not have reflectors on my bike.You couldn't choose that in this state. You're required to have reflectors, period.

I generally keep them and add more reflectors / tape. IMO, front and rear vis are generally more important than side vis, I like anything that moves, so I keep or add reflectors / tape to pedals, cranks and the inside of my rims.

I don't like them, so I don't use them. I replaced all my plastic reflectors with tape.http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2136/withlightwe8.jpgStealth Reflectors (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=297284)

You couldn't choose that in this state. You're required to have reflectors, period.

and pray tell WHY would in gods name would i want to live in the USA? :p

FYI, i probably should ahve mentioned i have 3M reflective tape on my forks, back triangle and a tons of it on my helmet and old messenegr bag.

Reflective sidewalls FTW.

I have side facing lights,

But I wonder just how useful any side facing illumination is on a bike. I rely on making sure a car is not going to T-bone me by not putting myself into a situation where it can do so, which means making sure the car sees me before I cross in front of it, or else assuming it does not see me and riding accordingly.

Side encounters with cars are very quick and very brief and I would never rely on side facing lights or reflectors to show cars at the last minute that I am about to cross in front of them.

You couldn't choose that in this state. You're required to have reflectors, period.

Ontario HTA 62 (17) - Reflective tape - a bike must have white reflective tape on the front forks and red reflective tape on the rear forks. The tape must be at least 2.5 cm wide and 25 cm long. The fine is $105.


I choose not to put this much reflective tape on my bike, and it wouldn't fit even if I chose to. Hence I choose to violate this rule. No police officer has chosen to enforce, or even make himself aware of, this obscure ordinance. And if they did, I would choose to go to court and contest my citation. In which case the judge may choose to either uphold or toss my ticket.

Such are the choices we make. :)


Back on topic, I chucked hard plastic reflectors in favor of lights and tape. My objective remains to avoid getting hit by a car or truck, not dinged with an (unlikely) citation

My main concern when riding at night is being seen by cars approaching me from behind. The only thing that will help in that situation is a good light.

I think I have reflectors on one bike but I've never given it much thought - compared with Lights - i'd say reflectors are essentially pointless.

And I'm not sure of the laws here in Australia...

Are most users here from the USA? or is the "State"-centric talk just that Americans are typically oblivious to the rest of the world?

in toronto, where do you buy the orange and white reflective tape? Do they come in excessively large rolls or strips? My LBS only has small strips, but I'd prefer something very adhesive that can withstand all weather conditions.

How many people really go fast enough for the "aerodynamics" of spoke reflectors to make a difference?

My main concern when riding at night is being seen by cars approaching me from behind. The only thing that will help in that situation is a good light.
good reflectors properly aimed are as good or better than a rear light, they shine with the brightness of the headlights hitting them, amber is brighter than red

well, it's not that you're going really fast that makes reflectors come off... it's the age of the reflector, speed and road conditions.

My rear spoke reflector came undone once on a bike trail, probably from some rough terrain I hit earlier combined with how old it was. I hear a "clang!" wonder what it is... then the rear spoke reflector flies off and starts making a lot of noise, nearly broke a few spokes on my rear because of it.

good reflectors properly aimed are as good or better than a rear light, they shine with the brightness of the headlights hitting them, amber is brighter than red

...provided the overtaking car has working, properly aimed lights that are near the eye level of the driver.

No thanks. I can't trust them to do anything right. Lights for me, reflective stuff as a supplement.

I don't like the looks of them and ever had them become loose and start flopping about while riding. I fear that action could take out a couple spokes.

Both my current (pre-owned, but not gently used) bikes came without spoke reflectors.
I have added a reflective spoke card to each wheel of my commuter -white reflective tape on both sides of a circle of plastic (I think it was a cool whip lid). It seems to work well enough for reflectors, but I am considering some sort of amber lights for the sides of my bike: perhaps bar end lights for my flat bars.
My road bike is used only in nice weather, no fenders, and during daylight - so no real need for them.

Are most users here from the USA? or is the "State"-centric talk just that Americans are typically oblivious to the rest of the world?

What? There's a "rest of the world"?

:D

Yes, I believe most of the users of this forum are from the USA.

Most of my commute is in the dark, so I try to put the odds in my favor.

Reflective tape, spoke relectors, and lights.

Are most users here from the USA? or is the "State"-centric talk just that Americans are typically oblivious to the rest of the world?
Yes, and yes.

Even when Americans aren't in the majority, we are still completely oblivious to the rest of the world.

in toronto, where do you buy the orange and white reflective tape? Do they come in excessively large rolls or strips? My LBS only has small strips, but I'd prefer something very adhesive that can withstand all weather conditions.


if you have a Canadian Tire nearby, go to the vehicle paint/autobody section, an go to the Pinstriping and decal shelf. There will be a package of red/white/red DOT approved reflective tape. This is the stuff truckers use. HIGHLY adhesive, plan your tape positioning carefully.

or buy from here if you cannot find it locally:

http://www.colebrothers.com/dotsafetytape2/

this is the tape (REFLEXITE):

http://www.reflexiteamericas.com/pix/conspo/dot_trailer.jpg

then the rear spoke reflector flies off and starts making a lot of noise, nearly broke a few spokes on my rear because of it.

Then get a proper reflector that's designed to break easily under such conditions. Any good spoke reflector will be made from a very brittle plastic, which will break instantly if it rotates out of position.

Reflectors are much better than lights to make a bike visible to a car. Lights are good for "off-axis" situations and to warn other cyclists whose own lights are too weak to make reflectors effective.

Spoke reflectors are ridiculously cheap - equivalent to about US$3 here.

My racing bike came with no reflectors, is always ridden with no reflectors and will one day die with no reflectors.

I have a clearly visible front light and a clearly visible rear light. More than sufficient to alert other road users to my presence.

If you obey traffic laws, there is no situation in which spoke reflectors are necessary to achieve visibility to other road users at night.

EDIT: To those who say that aerodynamic arguments against spoke reflectors are bogus: if something as large as a reflector REALLY had no effect on wheel aerodynamics, do you think manufacturers would bother replacing something as small as old-fashioned round spokes with bladed spokes? Really?

I have a clearly visible front light and a clearly visible rear light. More than sufficient to alert other road users to my presence.

If you obey traffic laws, there is no situation in which spoke reflectors are necessary to achieve visibility to other road users at night.


I truly hope you don't believe what you just wrote.

There are a number of situations where reflectors to the sides are very important, no matter how well you follow the traffic laws. You see, reflectors are there to alert other people to your presence and location, as well as your direction and rate of travel to some extent. That allows other road users to plan their driving accordingly. If they're unaware of you, they will plan their next few seconds of driving based on a mental picture that doesn't include you. If they notice you and your bike too late, it could lead to accidents, or at the very least dangerous behaviour (sudden decelerations, swerving, et c), even if you yourself may come out of it unscathed.

Making sure you're visible to others makes the roads safer for all road users, not just yourself. Bike-mounted lights are quite weak, even the more powerful ones, and visibility to the sides is even worse. Reflectors have that nice property of reflecting light back at almost the same intensity as the light source itself. A typical car headlamp is a 55 W bulb. Two makes 110 W, and even the more powerful bike lights rarely exceed 20 W, so that's a 5:1 ratio right there - minimum.

EDIT: To those who say that aerodynamic arguments against spoke reflectors are bogus: if something as large as a reflector REALLY had no effect on wheel aerodynamics, do you think manufacturers would bother replacing something as small as old-fashioned round spokes with bladed spokes? Really?

Just for the record, I'm an engineer and deal with fluid mechanics calculations often.

I believe that many of the "aerodynamic" products do a better job of lowering cyclists' savings than times.

Yes, a spoke reflector does cause drag, as it moves from a velocity of zero to close to twice the velocity of the bike and back to zero. Over and over.

If you are a world-class cyclist, you need every tiny advantage you can get. If you are a commuter, it doesn't amount to much. Cyclists, the largest contributor to drag is YOU. :D

And...since I'm a commuter, I need every tiny advantage I can get. I feel spoke reflectors, reflective sidewalls and reflective tape fit the bill.

Just my 2c.

I have side facing lights,

But I wonder just how useful any side facing illumination is on a bike. I rely on making sure a car is not going to T-bone me by not putting myself into a situation where it can do so, which means making sure the car sees me before I cross in front of it, or else assuming it does not see me and riding accordingly.

Side encounters with cars are very quick and very brief and I would never rely on side facing lights or reflectors to show cars at the last minute that I am about to cross in front of them.

I agree with you assessment of side encounters, however IF (and that is a mighty big IF) the driver is thinking ahead it will remind him that if he turns in the same direction as you are traveling to look for a cyclist ahead. At least that is my thought process!
FWIW I don't like the wheel reflectors because they rattle, get broken, etc. I have replaced them with prismatic reflective tape strips and/or reflective side walls. My Raleigh Superbe did not come with wheel reflectors, so the reflective sidewalls are a plus on that bike. I am more concerned with getting clipped from the rear, or right hooked and I don't think wheel reflectors will help in those situation.

Aaron:)

Yours rattle and break? Get proper ones then! Mine are quiet and stay in place (provided I've mounted them properly - failed to once and it split in half 20 seconds into the ride, no other effects).

I don't know about the US, but here in Sweden, almost all bike-car collisions are 90-degree hits. Car driving down the street, bike coming from the side. Spoke reflectors help a lot here. Getting hit from behind is so rare as to be negligible.

I did get some better ones, but for my Bianchi. They're apparently designed to lessen spoke tension caused by the reflectors.
Keep in mind, these spoke reflectors that broke off, were there from a 19yr old bike. :-)
I didn't put any new spoke reflectors on my 19yr old bike because I don't ride it at any other times than daylight, so I think its purpose is moot.

Yes, absolutely. I don't have any lights or reflectors on my real road bike. It is never used when it's not daylight outside.

Nobody here has had any loose reflectors? If they become loose they tangle across on the forks and you go flying FAST!!!! :( removing them and replacing with tape is "accident prevention" while keeping the reflective advantage some prefer. plus it lightens up your wheels. and you know the old saying "an ounce off the wheels is worth two off the frame"

As far as legality issues reflective tape is a legal (and safer) substitute.

As far as legality issues reflective tape is a legal (and safer) substitute.
Depending on the local laws where you live, it may not be a legal substitute. Check your state/provencial/local traffic laws as they pertain to bikes.

Nobody here has had any loose reflectors? If they become loose they tangle across on the forks and you go flying FAST!!!! :( removing them and replacing with tape is "accident prevention" while keeping the reflective advantage some prefer.

Properly designed spoke reflectors will be brittle enough to shatter without doing any damage to the spokes or even cause any discernable deceleration. I know, because it happened to me a few weeks ago. I only noticed it because one of the pieces hit me on the chin. You certainly don't go flying!!!

Reflective tape is not a good substitute as it won't move with the wheel (and therefore make you appear less like a bike to other road users) and it could very well be illegal, even if it should happen to be a good reflector (I have a roll of very good amber reflective tape, but I've yet to find a suitable location).

My road bike has aero wheels with decreative/reflective decals, and wheel reflectors will just ruin the bike's looks, plus the road bike will be used mostly during the daylight hours, so installing wheel reflectors would be fairly useless excercise. My winter commuter on the other hand, which will be used during darkness or foul weather, has enough lights, and reflectors on that would make any "Fred" proud.