Yesterday morning I rolled out of bed very early with a decision to make. Two rides were available with early morning starts - around 8:00 AM. One was 40 miles with lots of hills. The other was 75 miles, but flat. Knowing I need to get ready for a fairly flat 100, I decided on the 75 mile ride. When I arrived in the parking area for the start I found about a dozen riders. There were a couple riders I knew were about my speed on the flats, but I knew there were several that are much faster. The ride was described as 17 to 19 MPH, and I knew I could ride that. Within the first 5 miles it became evident that 20 to 21 MPH was the norm. I kept going anyway. Our first stop was at a little store at 25 miles. I felt OK, but we had not yet hit the mid 90 degree heat headed our way. I kept going. at 35 miles a couple of riders fell off. At 41 miles I started falling back, but could still see the group. We stopped at 49miles for a fairly long rest and to refill water containers. The heat had moved in. At 53 miles one rider fell back. At 61 miles two riders fell back and I joined them. The four of us gathered and rode together for the remainder of the ride. One of the four helped design the ride and then told us he had made a mistake and the ride would end at 88 miles, not 75. At about 79 miles my body had enough of the earlier pace and the now 94 degree heat. I kept going, but finally asked for a stop at 82 miles. We took a couple of minutes, then I said I could go, but had to slow. Everyone else did the same. We finished at about 15 MPH. Cramps started in my left leg a couple miles from the finish. The last 1/4 miles I pedaled with my right leg only. I was miserable. I could barely lift my bike onto the rack when finished. Now the question. Should you try to go beyond what you think are your riding limits, or should you recognize early it is more than you can do and leave the group?

What are you ride goals? To find and test your ability at your limits, or to get in your training at your target pace?

Given your answer, how well did that group ride work out for you?

There's your answer.

A good way you improve your performance is to ride with other riders who are stronger than us. Yout get pushed to levels higher than what we're able to push ourselves to. However, it is something you have to be prepared to do. They hurt, they're no fun and they leave you spent but they do you tons of good for what you're after.

I think you did wonderful. Just view it as a training ride which will greatly help in preparation for your longer ride. Yeah, it might have helped if it was a little shorter but you handled it well. They will be other rides where the cramps set in and you are not enjoying it so some of this is just learning how to cope mentally.

Do a short recovery ride today and by next weekend you'll be impressed with how your performance level is improving.

Should you try to go beyond what you think are your riding limits, or should you recognize early it is more than you can do and leave the group?

Been there, done that; in fact I had nearly the same experience on a fast, hilly, and hot ride about a month ago. I bailed before things got quite that bad. Biking is something I do for fun. Misery and heat stroke are not fun. I will sometimes join a faster ride to push myself but if I feel I'm in over my head I drop out. But sometimes I pleasantly surprise myself.

Also, 90+ degree heat is not the time to test your limits unless you're a TdF wannabe. Put another way: you can test your speed, you can test your hill climbing, you can test your distance/endurance, and you can test your weather tolerance -- but not all on the same ride, at least not at our age! It's not a matter of whether or not you "go beyond" but how far beyond you go.

However, it probably depends on the individual and how competitive or driven they are. The "Type A's" out there would probably be in the "go beyond regardless" group. As would the majority of young Turks on the road forum. "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" and all that.

They're welcome to it.

I think you are being a little hard on yourself. How can you make a good decision when the 75 mile ride is extended by over 10%. I would evaluate your decision based on your condition at 75 miles and dismiss the last 13 as an error by the people who designed the route.
BTW, I would be very pleased with the results you posted, I think its impressive. Additionally, you learned that you need more training to do 100 miles at over 20 MPH average, but you probably knew that.
I'm riding with two groups. The one with the longer routes (about 40-60 miles) has a large number of cyclists that split into many groups at the start. If you can find such a club it's really an advantage because when you start fading, you just fall back to a slower group and enjoy the ride at a friendlier pace.

Listen to your body . . . and ride accordingly.

Speed is over rated, or so I have been told. 15 mph is fine.

A good way you improve your performance is to ride with other riders who are stronger than us. Yout get pushed to levels higher than what we're able to push ourselves to. However, it is something you have to be prepared to do. They hurt, they're no fun and they leave you spent but they do you tons of good for what you're after.

I think you did wonderful. Just view it as a training ride which will greatly help in preparation for your longer ride. Yeah, it might have helped if it was a little shorter but you handled it well. They will be other rides where the cramps set in and you are not enjoying it so some of this is just learning how to cope mentally.

Do a short recovery ride today and by next weekend you'll be impressed with how your performance level is improving.

+1

Even if you get dropped riding with faster riders is the best way to increase your strength and performance. When I am with a group going >25mph, I'm a complete wheel sucker, frequently last wheel. I don't care, I push as hard as I can for as long as I can then I drop off and just finish at my own pace. The interesting thing is that after you drop off after going that fast you find that going 21-22mph feels pretty easy. You do this enough and soon the 18/19mph you would do solo becomes 22/23mph and once you get up to those ranges you can hang with most groups.

Fast rides like long rides a important training, keep it up and what was once hard becomes easy

Listen to your body . . . and ride accordingly.

I have read this a lot on various forums, often on this one. I think I'll have to respectfully disagree. Often when I am riding, this old bod says pack it in, because my legs hurt or I am over extending or some such thing.....but when I check my heart rate, I find I am not doing much work at all. A few more miles and things begin to perk up, my muscles begin to enjoy the exercise, my heart and lungs are humming along, and now my body is singing a different tune, about how good it feels to be out riding. If I had "Listened to my body" to begin with, I would have missed a good ride as well as some valuable exercise. I think my body lies to me a lot because it is lazy, but like a petulant child who has to be dragged to something new and then has a good time after all, the old bod often responds--because I didn't listen to it.

If I had "Listened to my body" to begin with, I would have missed a good ride as well as some valuable exercise. I think my body lies to me a lot because it is lazy, but like a petulant child who has to be dragged to something new and then has a good time after all, the old bod often responds--because I didn't listen to it.

This is so true! Verified it today, in fact. Rode a fairly flat century on Sat. (little over 2,000 ft) then today was riding up in the mountains with a lot of climbing (5,000 ft. total). The fast climbers took off, and my legs were hurting and I was thinking about turning back. "Shouldn't have ridden so fast on the century yesterday" I said to myself.

But then, a few miles later (maybe 7 or 8 miles into the climb (5 and 6%) I started feeling a LOT better. After a short descent I hammered up the next climb, then just kept my legs turning in a relatively easy gear (34 x 25). Eventually I caught up with the fast climbers, and then on a 3.5 mile section (6-7%) I actually pulled away! My legs were feeling great!

So yeah, listen to your body, but don't always do what its telling you to do!

Rick / OCRR

if you ride with idiots you will finish the trip ,feeling like the biggest idiot of the lot...(in a bag)
a spin like that will do your moral no good, find a groop,, that will start and finish together
..forget about average speed groops,(macho groops) enjoy your cycling ,dont let others decide how you should ride ,,enjoy my friend keep safe

From what youve said,I dont think I would have continued with that group. They were going faster than promised and longer too, whilst facing 90 temps.. Assuming youre over 50 and working your way up to a century it sounds like you were pushing your luck.

From what youve said,I dont think I would have continued with that group. They were going faster than promised and longer too, whilst facing 90 temps.. Assuming youre over 50 and working your way up to a century it sounds like you were pushing your luck.

Yes, I am over 50 (58) and not at the best riding weight (6'2" and 237#) which made me think later that I was pushing too far. Cramps and fatigue were the only problems, but I wondered if I was going overboard. The "no pain - no gain" theory is usually true, but how much. I wanted to hear from some others in my age group as to how to decide when enough is too much.

Got some very good answeres. Thanks

Originally Posted by zonatandem -- Listen to your body . . . and ride accordingly.

I have read this a lot on various forums, often on this one. I think I'll have to respectfully disagree. Often when I am riding, this old bod says pack it in, because my legs hurt or I am over extending or some such thing.....but when I check my heart rate, I find I am not doing much work at all. A few more miles and things begin to perk up, my muscles begin to enjoy the exercise, my heart and lungs are humming along, and now my body is singing a different tune, about how good it feels to be out riding.

tlc,
I'll agree with both you and ZonaTandem. At the beginning of a ride I often get a second wind and am glad I didn't "pack-it-in". But on a long, 90+ degree ride, with stronger riders the recommendation to listen to your body is sage advice. Especially for the 50+ crowd.

Personally I would never attempt such a ride, unless there were many opportunities for shady stops with lots of water. I wilt in high temp + high humidity.

The "no pain - no gain" theory is usually true, but how much. I wanted to hear from some others in my age group as to how to decide when enough is too much.


Some thoughts on this topic from Joe Friel in his book Cycling Past 50:

"The purpose of training is to slightly overload the body's systems to produce a training effect. Going beyond what you need for this adaptive process is called overreaching. We can compare it with wasting money. When buying a new car, you wouldn't think of offering the salesperson $100 more than the asking price, yet when it comes to training, riders frequently do the equivalent of that....The most important aspect of staying out of your doctor's office is moderation. If you regularly push your physical limits your risk of injury skyrockets."

I do like to kick it and test my limits--but I've had enough over-use injuries that I'm finally getting it into my thick head that balance is the name of the game.

Grasshopper, read your own sig. The answer lies within.

Some thoughts on this topic from Joe Friel in his book Cycling Past 50:

"The purpose of training is to slightly overload the body's systems to produce a training effect. Going beyond what you need for this adaptive process is called overreaching. We can compare it with wasting money. When buying a new car, you wouldn't think of offering the salesperson $100 more than the asking price, yet when it comes to training, riders frequently do the equivalent of that....The most important aspect of staying out of your doctor's office is moderation. If you regularly push your physical limits your risk of injury skyrockets."

I do like to kick it and test my limits--but I've had enough over-use injuries that I'm finally getting it into my thick head that balance is the name of the game.

Very good stuff. My right knee knows of what you say.......but how do you know your limit unless you've eased past it a bit??? Maybe that's my dilemma.....what I need to do is not worry about what my limit might be and just stay under it. You'd think I'd get all this figured out as mature as I am......

Grasshopper, read your own sig. The answer lies within.

Until now I have not hurt this bad after a ride. Coming in by pedaling with one leg was a bit tough. I do believe I will change my signature. It may take a few days to find something else.

... Cramps started in my left leg a couple miles from the finish. The last 1/4 miles I pedaled with my right leg only. I was miserable. I could barely lift my bike onto the rack when finished. Now the question. Should you try to go beyond what you think are your riding limits, or should you recognize early it is more than you can do and leave the group?

Really, only you're gonna be able to answer that question. All of it has to do with your expectations of both yourself and what you want the day/ride to be. The balance of pushing beyond a personal limit and staying within the 'expected' is really your decision.
Personally I;ve been on a number of rides 'listed' as 60 and finish as 90+. I know one guy who does that as a matter of course. He doesn't like to ride 'alone' (or with just 1 or 2 others) so he lists the ride as 60 and then announces a longer ride (often 100+) at the start. I;ve learned to 'prepare for the 'death march' when I go on one he posts. Other ride leaders are right on the money.
I have no qualms in breakin off from a ride, and have done it often enough. It took removing any attempt of measure of 'esteem' to do that. Riding at 20 mph doesn;t make you any better or worse than someone who rides at 15. If it was a real' race' then the measure would have been 'performance'. Otherwise the measure stick is what you put to it.
Things I expect or do for any ride...
I always 'plan' the ride to be some 10-15% greater than it really is. So I prepare for a 60 miler as if it was a 75. When you hit the end you;re pleasantly surprised it was so 'short'.
Expected averages - I always expect a ride average to mean that the flat section pace to be 25%+ higher than the average (or greater for real climbing rides). SO a 16 avergae means a lot of riding at 20-21 mph.
That's because most rides I do have varied terrain with some uphill sections.
Even on flat terrain, if you rode 18 mph for what seemed 'most' of the ride. The average would magically come around 16 - 16.5? Its crazy magic, but its almost irrefuttable.
Not every ride needs to be ridden with your tongue draggin on the front wheel and not every ride should be flower pickin (unless thats the only thing that matters).
you decide

Until now I have not hurt this bad after a ride. Coming in by pedaling with one leg was a bit tough. I do believe I will change my signature. It may take a few days to find something else.

You could always use:

“Sometimes the pain of quitting can be worse than the pain of going on.”

Yes, I am over 50 (58) and not at the best riding weight (6'2" and 237#) which made me think later that I was pushing too far. Cramps and fatigue were the only problems, but I wondered if I was going overboard. The "no pain - no gain" theory is usually true, but how much. I wanted to hear from some others in my age group as to how to decide when enough is too much.

Got some very good answers. Thanks

I am strong believer in HR monitoring in training, if you ride enough you should know when it is too much. I watch my heart rate very closely, when I am pushing I can sustain 90% MHR for 30-45min, 92% MHR for 15-20min and 94% MHR for about 5min. So yesterday when I was riding with the fast group and looked at my HR it was 94%, I knew the group had another 2 miles at this pace and there was no way I could hang on so I dropped off the back. I also look at how fast I am recovering, if my HR doesn't drop to below 85% while in a recovery situation then I am in trouble and better start slowing way down. For multiple day riding I look at my overall performance, is my speed decreasing and my HR increasing on day 5 or 6, if so time to take a rest.

I think the same would be true if doing interval training, if you are reaching high HR faster or recovering slower then you are pushing too much.

BikeArkansas,
I want to say that I admire your spirit.

Just be a little concerned about your heart and also the fact that you might be slower in recovering from such a workout than when you (we) were twenty. A long recovery type might actually set you back. It might be better to dial it back a notch and gradually creep up on such a performance with some more moderate rides. Sounds like with some more training based on a schedule that this ride could become easy for you.

I never worry about "saving face" on a ride, which is something you might want to consider as a possible reason you stayed with the fast group as long as you did. The issue of knowing your riding goals is an important one too. If my goals include specific time and distance challenges, then there are times I will push myself and end up having a day like yours. But to paraphrase a quote, "A bad day on the bike is better than a good day at work." My only real concern about your description of your ride resides in wondering if you did put your health at risk. Hence, a heart rate monitor is also a very useful tool to ensure that you can push yourself within safe limits. For example, I'll ride in the red zone, but not for long periods of time.

Sounds like the perfect day to me. Anything that doesn't do permanent damage just makes you stronger.

When I used to play golf every day, Saturdays were my range days. I would pound golf balls for hours until my hands and forearms were so stiff and cramped I couldn't even straighten out my fingers. Fortunately they were stuck in a perfect position to slide a can of beer into. My point is: find the positive side and go with it.

Sounds like bad planning on the part of the ride leader. He couldn't estimate the pace and somehow miscalculated the length by 13 miles. :eek:

While I agree with others that sometimes your body fools you and that if you break through that limit, things can get better, you also have to listen to it. Obviously, the way you ended it took all the fun out of that ride.

But I don't think you can be blamed. It sounds like if the announced pace had been maintained for the announced distance that you would have been fine.

Ultimately, it should be fun and you have to know your own real limits.