www.cyclingfans.com is suggesting that their might be national teams in the TdF next year. The guys running the British track effort were hoping to set up a British team, so they might get their chance early :)

What do you think? I think it might damage the pro teams. If we are relying on the pro teams to pay for their own doping controls a la T-Mobile, that might not be good. Looks like ASO is trying to stick it to the UCI and their ProTour. Still, politics aside, I think I would welcome a return to National teams. Perhaps with the proviso that Charlie Wegelius will not be picked for the Brits.

I think that would be pretty cool too, and I agree that it might really hurt the pro teams. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

They mentioned this on Versus as well.

First of all, this might be required due to the lack of sponsored Pro Tour teams next year!! I have counted the following teams with sponsorships either ending or in question:

- T-Moble (to be announced today)
- Credit Agricole
- Astana (will not be invited back, unless under new management and new athletes)
- Cofidis
- Gerolsteiner
- Discovery
- Rabobank (at this point, still in, but who knows once time passes what their marketing group concludes)


So that is 7 teams that may need replacing next year not only for the Tour, but for the Pro Tour itself.

The big problem is that if a National Team takes part, they may be at significant disadvantages since most likely, the best riders from each country will be riding for a Sponsored Team.

As I have stated in other posts, this is going to be the most frantic and chaotic off-season in cycling in a long, long time. Everything is up in the air.

www.cyclingfans.com is suggesting that their might be national teams in the TdF next year. The guys running the British track effort were hoping to set up a British team, so they might get their chance early :)

What do you think? I think it might damage the pro teams. If we are relying on the pro teams to pay for their own doping controls a la T-Mobile, that might not be good. Looks like ASO is trying to stick it to the UCI and their ProTour. Still, politics aside, I think I would welcome a return to National teams. Perhaps with the proviso that Charlie Wegelius will not be picked for the Brits.



My post above was based on the idea that there would still be Pro Teams competing. Are you suggesting that the TdF is a National Team only race. Now that would drum up interest in the sport here in America.

It used to be like that, way back in the day..

Like I said before.. there is too much $$ to be made... the teams will have sponsors.....

It used to be like that and then they had some problems. It would be odd that this years problems bring that system back. If I recall they stopped the National Team idea because of doping and a death. What an ironic bookend.

Things that fuel nationalistic pride are more often bad than good I think. Pro cycling is a pretty good example of international unity at work and I hope it stays that way. It helps us focus on individuals more than countries.

Things that fuel nationalistic pride are more often bad than good I think. Pro cycling is a pretty good example of international unity at work and I hope it stays that way. It helps us focus on individuals more than countries.



Hmmm....I did not think Cycling was the glue that held the international community together. I think you are reading way too much into this. Nationalism and foreign affairs are not affected by the Tour.

Hmmm....I did not think Cycling was the glue that held the international community together. I think you are reading way too much into this. Nationalism and foreign affairs are not affected by the Tour.

Well, there's an argument that can be made for Bartali in '48 (or Coppi in 49?).
I think the idea is to have full on national teams. Of course, those national teams were sponsored too. Appropriately, the British track team is supported by Persil, a major detergent make...

I doubt it will go to national teams. But if it does, it would probably be teams like "The USA Cycling Team presented by the US Postal Service."

I hope not, only because Spain would murder everyone.

I've heard the Khazak team has started 'preparing' already

I hope not, only because Spain would murder everyone.

And the American team would almost certainly be the oldest. You cyclists get off my lawn!

wouldn't the problem with that be that alot of riders for example soler would be excluded. You can only have so many teams in the race, yet there are many diverse countries of origin in the race now.

Yes, honestly that would be the problem. You want only 9 guys each from Spain, Italy and France? Can you come up with 8 other Swiss riders for Cancellara? You get the picture...

I hope not, only because Spain would murder everyone.

And the French team would come in LAST. So, there will be no national teams.


There are plenty of sponsors out there and plenty of teams like Slipstream that would love to step up and compete.

And the French team would come in LAST. So, there will be no national teams.


Just when you think you've heard it all.

wouldn't the problem with that be that alot of riders for example soler would be excluded. You can only have so many teams in the race, yet there are many diverse countries of origin in the race now.

Soler is not the issue. Columbia likely would get a team, since they could field a quality team, especially a climbers team.

The issue is that most riders in the Pro Circuit are Spanish, Italian, French, Belgian and Dutch. You would be excluding a ton of top talent, i.e. - the 10th best Italian, Spanish, French, Belgian and Dutch riders and below would not be able to race, but the 9th best rider from Sweden might (and he might only race on a non-Pro European continental team, if that).

It is the equivalent of the Baseball All-Star rule that every team must have a representative. So great Red Sox and Yankee players get left off the team, but some no-name from Kansas City gets on the All-Star ballot.

It used to be that there was a French national team, and then a bunch of French regional teams too. It is the Tour de France after all. I'm pretty sure that the Swiss could rustle up a more than creditable team. The Austrian could too.

if there's going to be any grand tour type event based on national teams, it better be held somewhere near the equator in the middle of the winter, and there still needs to be corporate sponsors. as a taxpayer, i don't like footing the bill for athletics, be they stadiums, olympic teams, or what have you. overall, i think it's a rubbish idea.

I hope not, only because Spain would murder everyone.

SO true! Just think; you'd have Freire, Contador, Valverde, Sastre, Zubeldia, Flecha, Astarloza (both) and Pereiro. They would own just about every race apart from Flanders-Roubaix and Flecha keeps getting closer to those two.

wouldn't the problem with that be that alot of riders for example soler would be excluded. You can only have so many teams in the race, yet there are many diverse countries of origin in the race now.

Ironically, Columbia is the last national team I can remember being invited to the Tour. Back in the early '80s they got an invite - as an amateur team. I think it was the year after they came to the Coors Classic and absolutely devastated the field. Maybe '84 or 83? Perhaps a year or two earlier......

Must be the drugs in the candy.

SO true! Just think; you'd have Freire, Contador, Valverde, Sastre, Zubeldia, Flecha, Astarloza (both) and Pereiro. They would own just about every race apart from Flanders-Roubaix and Flecha keeps getting closer to those two.

Gimme a break. Aren't we forgetting Australia? Freire vs McEwen; Michael Rogers vs any of them; O'Grady for Roubaix, Cadel for the Tour, the list goes on. The Aussies would clean up.

national teams doesn't do it for me unless you reorganise the rest of the sport to be in national teams but i cant see that happening and whats the chance of team managers having more of a clue as to what riders are doing when the teams are put together for 3 weeks a year, how does a rider peak for a tour if hes riding in a trade team the rest of the year i would guess he'd be under more pressure to win outside the tour more.

Gimme a break. Aren't we forgetting Australia? Freire vs McEwen; Michael Rogers vs any of them; O'Grady for Roubaix, Cadel for the Tour, the list goes on. The Aussies would clean up.

Italy would be pretty strong too and if they let the Schleck brothers ride for Belgium they'be be awfully strong. The dutch would be very good (as they were back in the national team days) and I pity the team that has to go up against the good 'ol USA in a TTT - Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Julich and Hincapie, that's a TT murderer's row

That being said, I think this is all just fantasy league. I don't see it actually happening.

www.cyclingfans.com is suggesting that their might be national teams in the TdF next year. The guys running the British track effort were hoping to set up a British team, so they might get their chance early :)
Looks like ASO is trying to stick it to the UCI and their ProTour. Still, politics aside, I think I would welcome a return to National teams. Perhaps with the proviso that Charlie Wegelius will not be picked for the Brits.
I think Dave Brailsford has said he would use Rod Ellngworths U23 squad as a basis for a British team (although I'd have thought they were all too young).

But Wiggins has already said he won't be riding the tour next year as he concentrates on the Olympics and looking at the other Brits Cav, Thomas, Cummings, Mananing and Clancy are all from the track pro gramme and will be thinking about the endurance squad at the Olympics. If CW is excluded for past crimes, that leaves Dave Millar. :)
Still that aside, personally I'd love national teams (esp if it sticks it to the UCI) :)

I like the idea of country only teams. If anyone thinks that all 21 sponsored teams in the Tour are equally competitive, you are mistaken.

You would have some powerful teams like Spain, France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, the US, Netherlands... and some real underdogs like England, Australia, Kazakistan, Russia, Colombia. They could even have pre-qualifying races like the World Cup does now so that smaller cycling countries could duke it out for a team spot.

One negative would be that the Tour would become more political like the Olympics and more prone to terrorism. And if the US is leading the tour in the Pyranees and france or Spain is 2nd... imagine what would happen.

Still something has to change and it's time for completely new traditions.

national teams would not work in pro cycling. the most obvious reason why is that the whole idea behind having teams is to support a leader. who does the leader of the spanish team become? contador, sastre, valverde, pereiro, etc.? how can they afford to pay all these top riders? national taxes? how can smaller countries have success or even field an entire team?
now you could maybe argue for no teams, all riders are on their own...but then you get the problem of support issues, is there a support car for every rider instead of each team? or is support handled by the race officials? if so is their favoritism from the support workers, especially if they are bribed to do so? also when they didn't have teams way back in the day the riders that could "buy" support (basically clandestine teams) were at a huge advantage, hence one reason why official teams were formed.
trying to stop doping by changing the whole format of the modern pro peloton is not the answer. lets face it, human beings are cheaters, they will do whatever they can to gain an advantage over others. the only way to stop doping is to have better controls for every single rider at every start that have instantaneous results, sort of like a breathalyzer, and dire consequences for cheats such as lifetime bans, huge fines and prison time. to think that everyone in the pro peloton will just "see the light" and never cheat again is pure naivety. sure there will always be cheaters finding new ways to cheat that are not tested for and that always gets into the grey area of where does sports medicine end and doping begin?

national teams would not work in pro cycling. the most obvious reason why is that the whole idea behind having teams is to support a leader. who does the leader of the spanish team become? contador, sastre, valverde, pereiro, etc.? how can they afford to pay all these top riders? national taxes? how can smaller countries have success or even field an entire team?
now you could maybe argue for no teams, all riders are on their own...but then you get the problem of support issues, is there a support car for every rider instead of each team? or is support handled by the race officials? if so is their favoritism from the support workers, especially if they are bribed to do so? also when they didn't have teams way back in the day the riders that could "buy" support (basically clandestine teams) were at a huge advantage, hence one reason why official teams were formed.
trying to stop doping by changing the whole format of the modern pro peloton is not the answer. lets face it, human beings are cheaters, they will do whatever they can to gain an advantage over others. the only way to stop doping is to have better controls for every single rider at every start that have instantaneous results, sort of like a breathalyzer, and dire consequences for cheats such as lifetime bans, huge fines and prison time. to think that everyone in the pro peloton will just "see the light" and never cheat again is pure naivety. sure there will always be cheaters finding new ways to cheat that are not tested for and that always gets into the grey area of where does sports medicine end and doping begin?

What about the World Championships?

What about the World Championships?


Apples + oranges.

the world championships are a one time event each year that are unique in pro cycling. the team selection for the different countries is always a hotly contested and debated subject with many disagreements and hurt feelings all around. in the end most teams don't really work together during the road race and it becomes every man for themselves by the end of the race. look at last years results if you don't believe that. there was no italian train for paolo...the 2nd closest italian was di luca in 34th and he probably gave up when he saw he couldn't win. and look at 5th and 6th place mcewen and o'grady (both aussies)...do you think either one was there to pull for the other. not. both wanted to win.
maybe the national team format would kind of work for single day events but its in stage races that cohesive teams with designated leaders become so much more important and crucial for victory.

Australia has a great chance then! Ogrady as the workhorse, Robbie for the green, Evans ftw! :)

I think we'd only have 3 guys total though :lol:

Australia has a great chance then! Ogrady as the workhorse, Robbie for the green, Evans ftw! :)

I think we'd only have 3 guys total though :lol:

You've not heard the name Michael Rogers then? :)

Australia has a great chance then! Ogrady as the workhorse, Robbie for the green, Evans ftw! :)

I think we'd only have 3 guys total though :lol:

Sadly (I'm a fan) I think McEwen has seen his last green jersey...