A local man was ran down in the street like a dog. (http://cycledog.blogspot.com/2007/07/cyclists-are-no-better-than-dogs.html)
THAT is journalism at its best. Obviously, it is one of the most forthright and insightful editorial comments of our time. If more writers thought that clearly, this country would be a lot better off. ;)
Cronen was the experienced cyclist who was struck and killed earlier this month on the Second Street Bridge, going from downtown Louisville to Indiana. One of my offices is at the corner of where that bridges is. My office overlooks the site of the murder.
His death came just two days before he was to have met with the mayor’s office to discuss special signage that would have alerted motorists that bicycles are on the roadway.
The day he was killed riding across the bridge, many people asked why a cyclist was even riding on it in the first place. The fact is that it is the only way to travel between Kentucky and Indiana within forty miles for a cyclist. Also, bicycles are considered vehicles by law. They are allowed on any road unless otherwise posted, and they are not allowed up on sidewalks.
This awful event took place just before rush hour. It resulted in the primary bridge from downtown Louisville directly into Indiana being shut down. That bridge comes down directly into the heart of downtown. As a result, traffic was at a stand still. Drivers downtown just mentally overheated and became bigger maniacs than usual. Without regard to the fact that a man had been killed in the street like a dog, they demonstrated a total disregard for others. All they had to do was turn on there radios and head for the interstate, only a few blocks away. How hard should that be for a motorist, (which I am one at times)? I found myself walking home through the crazed streets, dodging traffic as vehicles ran stop lights. That day, I was walking instead of riding my bike. I have been recovering from eye surgery, and have not been biking for a few weeks now. Downtown was a made house. It was like something out the movie, "Escape from New York".
Besides that, I had a similar experience a little over a year ago. While returning to work, a crazed woman ran me down in the street. She broke my arm in multiple places. When I got up and gathered myself self together, she stepped out of her car and said, "what are you doing in the street"? OMG! People that stupid or crazy should NOT be allowed out in public unchained!
I can still feel the pins and plates in arm on certain days. I'm lucky to be alive.
Here is the article describing the rally downtown today to call for felony charges to be filed against the driver. (http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/071707whasmjdLocalCyclists.84256946.html)
Here is the video describing the rally downtown today to call for felony charges to be filed against the driver. It may take a moment to buffer up, but it does work. (http://www.whas11.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=159455&catId=49)
Another article mentions the lack of a serious attitude. (http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/071607whasjdlocalbike.8081ff8c.html)
This is the article in the paper the day following the murderous rampage. (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070704/NEWS01/707041217/1008/NEWS01)
This is a high level view of where it happened. The shot was taken while the bridge was shut down.
http://www.whas11.com/images/slideshow/CyclistKilled/images/002.jpg
Here are several picks of what the mangled bike looked liked after the murderer ran over it.
All of the photos are available at this link. (http://www.whas11.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=4325&nextimage=0)
His obituary : (http://www.legacy.com/louisville/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonID=90193108)
By law, dogs are to be restrained in public. If one is loose in the street, and resultantly killed, not much is done about it. Hence, the inspiration for subject line...
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I have a question. Was the rider on the side walk or on the road???
He better have been on the sidewalk, because that road is too narrow for a car and bike. If that road to be ridden bike must take the whole lane.
pirate golf
Sounds like an old fashioned accident to me. I love when things get blown out of proportion to make 'cagers' look like enemies in some made up war.
Bikepacker67
Sounds like an old fashioned accident to me. I love when things get blown out of proportion to make 'cagers' look like enemies in some made up war.
How much road riding do you do?
dapittbull69
I have a question. Was the rider on the side walk or on the road???
He better have been on the sidewalk, because that road is too narrow for a car and bike. If that road to be ridden bike must take the whole lane.
It is ILLEGAL to ride a bike on sidewalks. Bicyclist have just as much right to the road as cars. If i'm on a road like that I ride in the middle of the lane until I am at a place where I feel comfortable to let the cars pass me.
Blue Jays
Did the driver know the cyclist at all? Were they fighting about something?
Bushman
Sounds like an old fashioned accident to me. I love when things get blown out of proportion to make 'cagers' look like enemies in some made up war.
what part of "ITS ILLEGAL TO RIDE A BICYCLE ON THE SIDEWALK" do you not understand?
cat4ever
What do you want the backpackers to do about it?
notzofast
ILLEGAL does not make it something cops want to enforce.
Let's get familiar with the term.
Law Maker - Stupid riders that kill themselves on their bikes causing stupid laws to be made 'For our protection (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/L.htm#).'
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/L.htm
That lane is too darn narrow for a bike and a car. Thus riding in the middle is an option. However, in my book the road is too long to ride in the middle, cars behind you get pissed off. (not every driver knows your stupid law, nor cares about YOUR STUPID LAW).
What I would do there is ride the sidewalk. If not, I'd walk with my bike on the sidewalk. What can they do, write me a ticket? LOL. Whatever, I can live with ticket if it saves my life. Because risking your life in order not to get a stupid piece of paper, is what???
Come on now. It's the word that starts with an S.
evblazer
What is the speedlimit on that road? I know it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk but that road/bridge looks really unfriendly to ride on.
SweetLou
Murder?
Ky Venom
I have a question. Was the rider on the side walk or on the road???
He better have been on the sidewalk, because that road is too narrow for a car and bike. If that road to be ridden bike must take the whole lane.
He was in the road, as he should have been. He was riding. That is not to be done on the sidewalk.
The thread explains the details.
Here is the answer to your question, as others have implied likewise.
Did the driver know the cyclist at all? Were they fighting about something?
No. Just a wreckless driver.
Tom Stormcrowe
Frankly, I'd ride that sidewalk as well! I'm familiar with that bridge and I could care less if it's illegal to ride that sidewalk......right of way and take the lane doesn't equate with a Suicide pact to my mind!:eek:
Ky Venom
What do you want the backpackers to do about it?
GREAT QUESTION! NOT ONE ASKED THAT.
Many are cyclist. Supposedly, all enjoy the outdoors. I would think they would be more supportive.
I would ask they post their concern, so that it can be shown to the mayor. It would effort our national image. He cares about that.
Ky Venom
ILLEGAL does not make it something cops want to enforce.
Let's get familiar with the term.
Law Maker - Stupid riders that kill themselves on their bikes causing stupid laws to be made 'For our protection (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/L.htm#).'
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/L.htm
That lane is too darn narrow for a bike and a car. Thus riding in the middle is an option. However, in my book the road is too long to ride in the middle, cars behind you get pissed off. (not every driver knows your stupid law, nor cares about YOUR STUPID LAW).
What I would do there is ride the sidewalk. If not, I'd walk with my bike on the sidewalk. What can they do, write me a ticket? LOL. Whatever, I can live with ticket if it saves my life. Because risking your life in order not to get a stupid piece of paper, is what???
Come on now. It's the word that starts with an S.
I'm going to start carrying my hiking poles with me while walking. Hope I don't have any accidents with you on the sidewalk.
Term - legally defensible .
Ky Venom
Murder?
Of course.
The man was ran down in the street like a dog. (http://cycledog.blogspot.com/2007/07/cyclists-are-no-better-than-dogs.html)
Ky Venom
Frankly, I'd ride that sidewalk as well! I'm familiar with that bridge and I could care less if it's illegal to ride that sidewalk......right of way and take the lane doesn't equate with a Suicide pact to my mind!:eek:
:rolleyes:
Thanks for making things more dangerous for everyone. Thanks for adding to the WRONG attitude that cyclist can be intimidated out of the way.
notzofast
Listen, Kv Venoom. Man.
For a bike and car to travel safely one the same road, two things must happen.
A) Biker must know what to do.
B) Motorist must know what to do.
How many motorists are not aware that bicycles are just like cars and follow the same traffic laws??
How many motorists see an arse hole on the road instead of a precious life on the bike??
When you answer these questions my little friend, you will begin to understand, that making all drivers aware and think the same way you think is impossible.
notzofast
:rolleyes:
Thanks for making things more dangerous for everyone. Thanks for adding to the WRONG attitude that cyclist can be intimidated out of the way.
Great!!! Way to go little buddy. Your attitude is "my way or the hiway and I'm willing to die for my way."
If it don't kill you it make you stronger. If it does kill you then who cares.
In other words you don't think your life is precious. I for once do think that my life is precious and I act accordingly when I'm out there.
Ky Venom
Listen, Kv Venoom. Man.
When you answer these questions my little friend, you will begin to understand, that making all drivers aware and think the same way you think is impossible.
Well, my little friend, I do not roll over as easily.
Years ago, some people took issue with concepts like "back of the bus!", and similar. Fact was, they did NOT have a legal right, at the time, to an alternative. They went out an had equal rights declared. They were not being endangered with the legal practices of the times. They were "just" being degraded.
MY points are FAR more significant, obvious, and clear, compared to those from 40 years ago . Cyclist already have a declared right to the road, amongst other traffic. Those rights are being infringed. The is about far more than dignity, it is about life itself.
I have the character to fight for what is right, even when others do not.
Blue Jays
We don't know the dynamics of the accident. What were the weather conditions at the time? Was it a foggy and dismal day with the rider in a gray outfit and a dark helmet? Blinkies in use? Vehicle laws should be enforced, and if we run around calling people "murderers" due to an unfortunate accident, it makes us look a bit unstable. The driver probably feels horrible and will see the image of that horrible event in his/her mind everyday for the rest of his/her life.
cat4ever
Ask me how much I care about the average backpacker, since I don't "backpack".
Blue Jays
Ky Venom, if a truck hits you at speed, you're still dead. Even dead right.
Cyclists must adapt to changing conditions to whatever is safest at the moment. I opt not to use MUPs or similar pathways, in the example of that bridge, I likely would have been riding on the walkway because it seems the safest and appears plenty wide for moderately rapid pedaling.
Ky Venom
Great!!! Way to go little buddy. Your attitude is "my way or the hiway and I'm willing to die for my way."
Yeah, and I'm the "little" here buddy. Right.
It is called the LEGAL way.
Oh, and yes, I have put my life on the line... MANY times for this nation. The least I can do is stand up for myself.
If it does kill you then who cares.
1) Unlike you, I am doing something with Advocacy groups to change that.
2) Louisville does have cameras down town. So, that should help in prosecution.
3) I have enough money and contact that I should get some attention.
In other words you don't think your life is precious. I for once do think that my life is precious and I act accordingly when I'm out there.
I think life is precious, until a person cross a legal boundary. Then, all bets are off. My life and that of others is important to me that I have defended with my violence, and in court. I SHALL continue.
Sua Sponte ! (http://www.christianitytoday.com/moi/2002/006/dec/24.24.html)
Ky Venom (http://profiles.yahoo.com/kyvenom)
Tom Stormcrowe
:rolleyes:
Thanks for making things more dangerous for everyone. Thanks for adding to the WRONG attitude that cyclist can be intimidated out of the way.
Not intimidated, just exercising sober judgment. I'm 47 years old, and have learned that sometimes judgment trumps ROW. I'd ride it slowly and safely, and assert my rights in a safer location. I have no problems riding in traffic and do long distance bike touring. I just reserve my fighting for situations where my risk of death is a bit less......intense! I'm going to guess you're somewhere between 17 and 25? I may be wrong of course, but that's my guess. When you're young and still feel bulletproof, you're willing to accept more risk than after you find out you ain't! I heal up slower and am less inclined to take risks I judge to be unreasonable.
Blue Jays
"No. Just a wreckless driver."If it was a wreckless driver, the accident would have never happened by definition! It's the reckless ones that cause me concern. :)
Ky Venom
Ky Venom, if a truck hits you at speed, you're still dead. Even dead right.
Cyclists must adapt to changing conditions to whatever is safest at the moment. I opt not to use MUPs or similar pathways, in the example of that bridge, I likely would have been riding on the walkway because it seems the safest and appears plenty wide for moderately rapid pedaling.
See above post.
I'll keep my eyes open. I'm going to start carrying my hiking poles with me while walking. Hope I don't have any accidents with you on the sidewalk.
Ky Venom
Ask me how much I care about the average backpacker, since I don't "backpack".
Hey, I know that is how most people feel.
Now, I think the way we change that atittude for motorist toward bikes is through enforcement of exsisting laws.
Tom Stormcrowe
See above post.
I'll keep my eyes open. I'm going to start carrying my hiking poles with me while walking. Hope I don't have any accidents with you on the sidewalk.
Cool, and I'll bookmark this post to show intent in court!;)
Ky Venom
If it was a wreckless driver, the accident would have never happened by definition! It's the reckless ones that cause me concern. :)
DUH... Exactly... MURDER.
notzofast
Ok Kv Venom. I don't know where you from, but where I'm from we value own's life. Just because your mother never taught you to value your own life, does not mean I have to suffer to your ignorance. Putting your own life at risk to prove a point, be RIGHT, or IMPRESS people, is dumb in my book. If it is not dumb in your book, if your book is dumb, please don't advocate that macho ready to die crap to me.
It sounds like you trying to impress the ladies?
I'm not a lady. No need for you to impress me. No point in fact. Your values stink.
Tom Stormcrowe
DUH... Exactly... MURDER.
Wreckless= No Accident
Reckless= what you are trying to say.;)
Ky Venom
Cool, and I'll bookmark this post to show intent in court!;)
Please do. Remember, I will be the one that will be crowded, encroached upon, and traveling in a legal means.
Best of luck. You'll need it.
See ya soon.
Ky Venom
Wreckless= No Accident
Reckless= what you are trying to say.;)
Awe.... Thanks! We have so little of that in our society. We could all benefit from behavior such as that.
notzofast
Please do. Remember, I will be the one that will be crowded, encroached upon, and traveling in a legal means.
Best of luck. You'll need it.
See ya soon.
What he wanted to say was:
Please do. Remember, I am better than you and more popular. If you think you're better than me and more popular best of luck with your ignorant believes. I'm better. I'm more popular. You're not!!!! HAHAHAHA
Yes, Kv. You're better than me. Man, cyclist, sucka, whatever.
Blue Order
Not intimidated, just exercising sober judgment. I'm 47 years old, and have learned that sometimes judgment trumps ROW. I'd ride it slowly and safely, and assert my rights in a safer location. I have no problems riding in traffic and do long distance bike touring. I just reserve my fighting for situations where my risk of death is a bit less......intense! I'm going to guess you're somewhere between 17 and 25? I may be wrong of course, but that's my guess. When you're young and still feel bulletproof, you're willing to accept more risk than after you find out you ain't! I heal up slower and am less inclined to take risks I judge to be unreasonable.That looks like a very long bridge to cross, with lanes too narrow to safely share. The traffic planning for the bridge bridge clearly didn't take cyclists into account, much less accommodate them. No cyclist is going to be able to cross that bridge without holding up much faster traffic, and I think we all know what happens when we do that. The traffic design of that bridge is just not conducive to cycles coexisting safely and harmoniously with other bridge traffic. The obvious practical solution is to mark out bike lanes on the sidewalk.
Blue Jays
Ky Venom, if you're walking across the 5700-foot Second Street Bridge carrying hiking poles and I approached behind you on a bicycle, I would simply say, ""Good Morning! Excuse me while I scoot past. Have a nice day." That would be it and we would both continue our travels.
Tom Stormcrowe
Awe.... Thanks! We have so little of that in our society. We could all benefit from behavior such as that.
You are quite welcome young man!:D;)
Conveyor Belt
There's a time and a place for everything. That bridge is no place to start a demonstration of cyclist rights to the road. If you want to do it, fine, but don't begrudge those who can see an accident like that coming a mile away.
I ride with cars. Around here, there are no bike lanes and fewer sidewalks. I ride on one sidewalk(about 1/4 mile), only because the road has zero shoulder, is a very narrow 4 lane road, and cars travel recklessly on it. It's an accident looking for a place to happen. I know it, I can see it, so I avoid it.
I'm all for cyclist rights to the road, but I'm NOT willing to die for them, and am sorrowful when anyone does. Sometimes we just have to be the bigger people on the road and let the cars have their fill. We have a better view on the backstreets, anyhow. I bet the view from the edge of the bridge was much better than the roadbed anyhow.
Flame on...
Ky Venom
We don't know the dynamics of the accident. What were the weather conditions at the time? Was it a foggy and dismal day with the rider in a gray outfit and a dark helmet? Blinkies in use? Vehicle laws should be enforced, and if we run around calling people "murderers" due to an unfortunate accident, it makes us look a bit unstable. The driver probably feels horrible and will see the image of that horrible event in his/her mind everyday for the rest of his/her life.
Look at the pics. That is what is looked like at the time of the incident.
I know the usual speed for motorist in that 35 mph are is about 55 to 60. I know he had reflectors on. I don't having a "blinky" is required. I know traveling a safe speed at a safe distance is required.
I can only hope something happens in their life horrible enough to change the driver.
Ky Venom
What he wanted to say was:
Please do. Remember, I am better than you and more popular. If you think you're better than me and more popular best of luck with your ignorant believes. I'm better. I'm more popular. You're not!!!! HAHAHAHA
Yes, Kv. You're better than me. Man, cyclist, sucka, whatever.
I DO apologize if that is impression I gave. I HATE that concept.
I only meant to imply that I get attention, or call attention for specific reasons.
Blue Jays
Blue Order, here are facts about the George Rogers Clark Memorial / Second Street Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Rogers_Clark_Memorial_Bridge) that was opened in 1929. Total length of the span is approximately 5700 feet.
notzofast
I can only hope something happens in their life horrible enough to change the
driver.
Now you see you wishing something bad to someone. That's so low. You're hating, instead of loving. Should you live past your years of biking the wrong way you will die an old poor man who never learned a thing. How sad.
Blue Order
I know the usual speed for motorist in that 35 mph are is about 55 to 60. I know he had reflectors on. Even if all the cars are observing the speed limit, that's a high rate of speed to expect a cyclist to keep up. For comparison, the peloton in the 2007 Tour de France was traveling at 30-34 mph on the flat routes. To expect that of the average cyclist for the length of that bridge is ludicrous... And that assumes that the cars are observing the speed limit, which they clearly aren't.
The bridge needs to be re-thought to accommodate cyclists, and the cheapest way to do that is to mark out cycle lanes on the sidewalk.
Ky Venom
Not intimidated, just exercising sober judgment. I'm 47 years old, and have learned that sometimes judgment trumps ROW. I'd ride it slowly and safely, and assert my rights in a safer location. I have no problems riding in traffic and do long distance bike touring. I just reserve my fighting for situations where my risk of death is a bit less......intense! I'm going to guess you're somewhere between 17 and 25? I may be wrong of course, but that's my guess. When you're young and still feel bulletproof, you're willing to accept more risk than after you find out you ain't! I heal up slower and am less inclined to take risks I judge to be unreasonable.
Nope. Wrong guy. I have the scars to prove I am not bulletproof. I "about" your age. Like most, I have mellowed out a LOT in years.
I understand very well your points. I am simply unwilling to "put up" with the situation any longer. That is why I have joined a local advocacy group.
Ky Venom
Now you see you wishing something bad to someone. That's so low. You're hating, instead of loving. Should you live past your years of biking the wrong way you will die an old poor man who never learned a thing. How sad.
Ummm... sound like you are wishing that on me... and I follow the law.
I'll tell you what is low. Someone running a person down in the street like an animal. That is low. Nothing being done about it is even worse.
Sounds like I may be one of the few biking the right way. No wonder so many motorist hate people on bikes and look down on them.
Yeah, sound like you did not learn anything about civil rights.
rando
Frankly, I'd ride that sidewalk as well! I'm familiar with that bridge and I could care less if it's illegal to ride that sidewalk......right of way and take the lane doesn't equate with a Suicide pact to my mind!:eek:
Me, too, Tom. I crossed that bridge a lot when I lived in Kentucky. I feel sorry for the victim and angry at the guy who hit him. not every road is a good road to ride a bike on.
Tom Stormcrowe
Nope. Wrong guy. I have the scars to prove I am not bulletproof. I "about" your age. Like most, I have mellowed out a LOT in years.
I understand very well your points. I am simply unwilling to "put up" with the situation any longer. That is why I have joined a local advocacy group.
In the case of the Second Street Bridge, since it is the only nonmotorized access bridge available, why not advocate, in this case, specific access to the sidewalk with signage and striping for a bike lane, since realistically, the lanes are too narrow and the total span too long for safe passage with bikes and cars mixing. This is one of the few instances where a bike lane really makes sense, or shared bike/pedestrian use. How many people actually walk across the bridge anyway?
Blue Jays
Bicyclists and motorcyclists alike face tougher odds because there aren't the passive safety devices that are available to car and truck drivers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is anything other than an unfortunate and tragic accident. Since this likely would have been a minor fenderbender if another car was involved, we don't need to crucify the driver.