Road Cycling - 2004 dura ace cranks.

i noticed today while watching the TdF that the cranks on lance's bike looked odd. turns out they're the new dura-ace!

after doing some reading about them i can't believe it. the right crank arm and spindle are all one piece, like some old-school BMX cranks, and the left crank arm uses pinch bolts to clamp down on the spindle. WTF?!!
source 1 (http://www.bikezone.com/article/0,5073,4041,00.html?category_id=501)
source 2 (http://www.bikezone.com/article/0,5073,3901,00.html?category_id=501)
source 3 (http://bike.shimano.com/whatsnew/item.asp?hwid=31)
source 4 (http://www.velonews.com/tech/gadgets/articles/4489.0.html)

i don't know about this stuff...i mean...it might look cool, but i would think that having the right crank arm and the spindle being one piece and press-fit is a mistake. it might provide better power transfer, but what happens in the long-term when temperature and weather conditions cause the metal the wear down? especially since the spindle is chromoly and the crank arm is aluminum. i would think the aluminum would wear faster, since it's softer and then you're stuck not only buying a new crank arm, but probably also a whole new crank. and pinch bolts on a road bike? more threads = more chance of something stripping out IMO. and pinch bolts flex the metal as they pinch together, causing weak points, which COULD break.

i dunno...lance is riding it all, and i saw what he did on it today, and everyone is giving it rave reviews...but i have to assume that lance would have done just as well with '03 DA on there...plus he's getting paid to use the stuff he uses. and the reviewers are only given a short time to test the stuff out. i just worry about durability...

The crank design is trickle-sideways from the 2003 XTR crank which itself is a borrowed idea from the old Bullseye cranks. A long time ago, Cannondale/CODA also borrowed the same concept I believe. I've heard some criticism that the interfaces (on the Bullseyes) were very unforgiving of loose tolerances as the splines wear.

it also kinda throws the whole "105 is fully compatible with dura ace" thing out the window...which kinda sucks.

i don't see what was so wrong with square taper spindles...

Let's see, if we follow the evolution of Shimano, we go from ball and cup BB's, perfectly functional, user serviceable, and low cost parts replacement for the end user.

Then we move to BB "units", user serviceability not practical, High cost replacement, lower inventory costs for shimano(don't have to stock different cups and balls and lockrings, etc).

Now we see that if you have to replace the BB with this new design, you have to replace the crank also. No user serviceablity.

All this is about reducing inventory costs for Shimano because they will have to stock fewer different parts and about generating higher per unit $$ sales for Shimano. The consumer is screwed.

Write your congressman. Better yet, boycott Shimano, and buy Campagnolo. Shimano started this crap. Target them.

Originally posted by don d.
Better yet, boycott Shimano, and buy Campagnolo. Shimano started this crap. Target them.

You don't have to limit yourself in such a manner. I'm running FSA cranks and think they're on par with Shimano and Campy in terms of quality and far superior in terms of appearance.

I do agree that if Shimano continues down this road with the rest of their components, I'll probably start looking at Campy... actually I already have. It would be really nice if another manufacturer came up with a competitive drivetrain lineup. I know there are/were some in the recent past (last 10 years) who tried to enter into the derailleur market to compete with Shimano and Campy road groups (the MTB market isn't much better) but they all seem to have died off.

not borrowd from Bullseye, stolen!
Fricken cheap a$$ Shimano didn't licensce from Bullseye. They just waited until the patent ran out to intro the Bullseye bottombracket. It's like, " That is a great idea. But don't reward the "little guy" and license it out just wait it out for 10 years and shut him completely out giving no credit to the inventor.".

Well having said that, I love the new XTR :)~

Check out the completely user serviceable rear derailleur at www.tisobike.com .

I remember when you could completely disassemble and reassemble a Campagnolo frt and rear derailleur and every other part in a Campagnolo group and every single small part, bushing, spring, etc... was available for replacement. Shimano started out the same way. Of course this was inventory hell for Shimano, but user serviceable heaven for the end user.

As attitudes changed in society from fixable to disposable("spending is better than mending"-anyone remember where that came from?), Shimano led the way down that slippery slope in the bike industry and Campagnolo followed to some extent to remain marketable. Fortunately, much of the Campagnolo stuff is still serviceable.

Originally posted by don d.
Check out the completely user serviceable rear derailleur at www.tisobike.com .


Very cool... although I'd probably opt for the silver pulleys and mounting bolt instead of bling-bling gold but to each their own. On that note, I remember when people would immediately replace their stock Shimano derailleur pulleys with superior ones by Charmichael or Bullseye. Are there still aftermarket pulleys available? A few people seem to make alternative rear derailleurs but I've yet to see an alternative front derailleur. As far as high-end shift lever sets go, I've really only seen the Modolo ones (I'm not sure Mavic's Mektronic counts).

Originally posted by don d.
Check out the completely user serviceable rear derailleur at www.tisobike.com .

OH MAN!!! i totally need that derailluer!! they need to start making complete parts groups or at least shifters and cranksets using ISIS STAT!!! i would totally buy from them if i was to set up a new road bike!!

edited to add that i too run FSA cranks and i love them. they totally look better than the regular black 105 cranks. and i checked out SRAM parts before i set up my current bike and the quality just wasn't good enough for me, and i also didn't like the "composite" (err, plastic) rear derailleur costing WAAAAY too much. and i couldn't find ESP road shifters anywhere. i'd like to build up a road bike without using shimano OR campy parts one day....whatever happened to suntour?

Originally posted by don d.
Let's see, if we follow the evolution of Shimano, we go from ball and cup BB's, perfectly functional, user serviceable, and low cost parts replacement for the end user.

true but life cycle cost was high due to regular maintenacne required


Then we move to BB "units", user serviceability not practical, High cost replacement, lower inventory costs for shimano(don't have to stock different cups and balls and lockrings, etc).

Not sure what you mean by different bearings and cups.
True certain cups received different aftertreatments to improve life but this is stil the case with cartridge bearing units. The only advantage of cartridge bearing BB's is the ease of replacement. They're not lighter but the life cycle cowst is lower.
I've only ever had to replace a cartridge unit once in 6yrs onmy read bike and once in 4 on my MTB. They last longer (if you don't jet wsh your bike) and purchasing a replacement is easy as pie


Now we see that if you have to replace the BB with this new design, you have to replace the crank also. No user serviceablity.

actually when you buy the crank the BB is included. Also the bearing are replaceable and very easily done too. The BB shaft cannot wear so the only parts will be to be serviced are the bearings which are angular contact sealed units. They break, you remove them and replace. Easy.


All this is about reducing inventory costs for Shimano because they will have to stock fewer different parts and about generating higher per unit $$ sales for Shimano. The consumer is screwed.

Write your congressman. Better yet, boycott Shimano, and buy Campagnolo. Shimano started this crap. Target them.

oh no not another anit Shimano poster fuelled by ignorance.

Go down to your LBS and ask them if you can have a look at the new XTR crank. You'll see that for the consumer it is a revelation. Only bearings that need to be replaced perhaps every two yrs. I think thats an advantage for any consumer

Also Lowering inventory stock is the goal of all manufacturing company's. Bettr complain to your congressman that Toyota is integrating their engines and gearbox as well, the stereo system.

Originally posted by TimB
true but life cycle cost was high due to regular maintenacne required



Not sure what you mean by different bearings and cups.
True certain cups received different aftertreatments to improve life but this is stil the case with cartridge bearing units. The only advantage of cartridge bearing BB's is the ease of replacement. They're not lighter but the life cycle cowst is lower.
I've only ever had to replace a cartridge unit once in 6yrs onmy read bike and once in 4 on my MTB. They last longer (if you don't jet wsh your bike) and purchasing a replacement is easy as pie



actually when you buy the crank the BB is included. Also the bearing are replaceable and very easily done too. The BB shaft cannot wear so the only parts will be to be serviced are the bearings which are angular contact sealed units. They break, you remove them and replace. Easy.



oh no not another anit Shimano poster fuelled by ignorance.

Go down to your LBS and ask them if you can have a look at the new XTR crank. You'll see that for the consumer it is a revelation. Only bearings that need to be replaced perhaps every two yrs. I think thats an advantage for any consumer

Also Lowering inventory stock is the goal of all manufacturing company's. Bettr complain to your congressman that Toyota is integrating their engines and gearbox as well, the stereo system.

Good point.

I have to admit I'm anti - Shimano partly because of the lack of user serviceability but also because of the effect thay have had on LBS. I used to be able to go into my LBS and ask for a derailluer and have a chouce of Sun tour, Huret, Campag etc. Now it's Shimano, and if you are lucky maybe Campag. They have really swamped the market. (Their competitors obviously weren't competitive enough)

But then again, I remember when all of this was fields :)

As principally a touring/commuter cyclist now, I like to know that I can adjust rather than replace, service rather than replace, and find that when replacement is necessary, my choice is not limited by designed in compatibility issues.

are there any reviews of that tiso rear mech?

Say what you want about Shimano, but they spend a lot of money on R&D. They are always moving forward to improve performance. Sometimes they go the wrong way but at least they are continually trying.

Would you rather have 5-speeds and friction shifting, or 9-,10-speeds and index shifting? Yeah. Me, too.

Would you rather fool around with your BB and hub bearings, adjusting, lubing, paying the LBS mechanic, or just insert cartridge bearing replacements every couple of years? Yeah. Me, too.

Would you rather have the traditional square-taper BB axles, or stiffer, stronger ISIS or Octalink BB axles? Yeah. Me, too.

Would you rather pay hundred(s) of dollars for a repairable RD, or pay $50 (Ultegra) every 5+ years for a replaceable, and probably lighter, RD? Yeah. Me, too.

Consider that the cost of repair in the modern economy frequently exceeds the cost to replace. This fact is common in most other areas of the consumer world. Cameras, audio equipment and toasters are all replacement items now. In the 1950s people made a living repairing toasters and flat irons. But the toasters cost more and didn't last as long.

excellent point woody,
and most people, even though Campagnolo components are repairable never have the item repaired. Always replace.
At least around here that is.
The guys at my LBS are not too fussed about whether you choose Campagnolo or Shimano, as long as you don't commit the cardianl sin of fitting Shimano to an Italian frame. One fellow got thrown out and his frame after him for requesting Ultegra on his Fondriest Top Carbon

Originally posted by TimB

At least around here that is.
The guys at my LBS are not too fussed about whether you choose Campagnolo or Shimano, as long as you don't commit the cardianl sin of fitting Shimano to an Italian frame. One fellow got thrown out and his frame after him for requesting Ultegra on his Fondriest Top Carbon

That probably ended up best for him. Hopefully he'll have gone off and found a shop without such silly religious bias and gotten equal and fair treatment as a paying customer ought to.

No he was allowed in door again when he agreed that he would pay the sacriligous Tax, ie no discount.
All in jest of course becasue he is a good customer at the LBS

Would you rather have 5-speeds and friction shifting, or 9-,10-speeds and index shifting? Yeah. Me, too.

9 is nice for the road bike, but its way too finikey for me to want to deal with on my mtb, and with 8 speed being phazed out, i dont think i will get a chance to switch back....not really shimano, but anyways..


Would you rather fool around with your BB and hub bearings, adjusting, lubing, paying the LBS mechanic, or just insert cartridge bearing replacements every couple of years? Yeah. Me, too.

this isnt shimanos invention, and it isnt even close to being carried on by them, take a look at freeride or bmx 3 peice cranks, [profile, fsa, on one...] they all have replaceable cartridge bearings



Would you rather have the traditional square-taper BB axles, or stiffer, stronger ISIS or Octalink BB axles? Yeah. Me, too.

yea sure the new spined interfaces are nice, but for one iais isnt shimano but is an open standard so anybody can make a crank to fit it, on the other hand octalink is closed and only shimano cranks will fit it, why?....waste of MY money...



Would you rather pay hundred(s) of dollars for a repairable RD, or pay $50 (Ultegra) every 5+ years for a replaceable, and probably lighter, RD? Yeah. Me, too.

5+ years...i wish, i go through a derailleur once ever couple months on the joker, my freind the same, either they develop waay too much play to work properly or certain parts [the arm that attaches it to teh hanger] snaps. id rather be able to replace this then buy a whole new one that will die again in a couple months..


Consider that the cost of repair in the modern economy frequently exceeds the cost to replace. This fact is common in most other areas of the consumer world. Cameras, audio equipment and toasters are all replacement items now. In the 1950s people made a living repairing toasters and flat irons. But the toasters cost more and didn't last as long.

not really much to say about this besides how its sorta sad...

correction Octalink is open but youhave to apply to Shimano for a license to use it. Apparently they charge a small premium for it's use. That siad, Octalink is superior to ISIS,hence the reason Chris King is finding it hard to design a BB according to ISIS that will last as long as other components that bear his name.

Next year Campagnolo is using FSA'a ISIS BB for their road cranks..

This Shimano hatered is kind of silly.

First, if it is true that Shimano waited until Bullseye's patent expired, then that was a good business decision. Don't take sides based on who's big and who's little, here. The decision was made to wait and offer the product when it would cost less (no license fee) to produce. That was a smart business move and perhaps exemplifies some of the reasons why Shimano is huge.

Second. Costomers constantly demand higher performance, lighter weight, cheaper stuff. In the persuit of that, some things become obsolete. Yes, that means that your old square taper stuff is obsolete, but who cares? Ever strip a spline BB? Me neither.

The point is, Shimano is incredible at offering performance at a silly low price point. 2003 105 feels as good as 2000 Dura Ace. That says something. 2004 Dura Ace will be a performance imporovement over 2003 (which I love), but will probably find its way to 2008 Tiagra and $700 bikes.

As one who once bought a Paul's rear deraileur and paid $250 for a piece that never worked right, broke and took forever to set up, I'll stick with Shimano.

well said old boy,.. well said.

all the campy zealots i know (except one) have no clue about how to adjust and let alone repair a RD. campy religion has to do partly with boycotting shimano and partly with italian infatuation. buying campy (in the overwhelming majority of cases) has nothing to do with parts being user-serviceable.

shimano is smart by having noticed the fact that people don't need to or know how to service their bikes. they are catering to cyclists, not bike mechanics.

and this anti-shimano crap is stupid. if campy came out with this crank, all you zealots would be marveling at the italian genius that came up with this godly design.

woah another one with sense. Are there more???
Suddenly I don't feel................. so alone anymore.


In all my 18 yrs of cycling, I have never seen or heard of anyone repairing a campagnolo derailleur.Why?
No one carries spares to reapir the stuff. After shipping, import duty, tax and LBS labour, the cost of the reapir is nearly as much as new unit.
They break, I toss them in the bin. You can't repair them yourself unless you have special tools anyway.
This repairability of Campag is a myth.

I like it because it looks nice and functions brilliantly , but so too does Shimano. In all honesty if I had to do it all again it would be a very tough decision choosing between Shimano Dura Ace and Campagnolo Record.

I agree, but I don't think it's truly a typical campy vs shimano thing, we're slowly working to the point where nothing on a bike will be servicable and everything will be thrown out. It's happened with all kinds of things and will sooner or later happen here as well. I have to agree that most people will never service their Campy parts for the most part, by the time you wear out something like an ergo lever you'll want to replace it with the latest and greatest piece anyways (besides, have you ever tried to get replacement parts for Campy anyways, it's not exactly that easy)!

Andrew

I think for me at least, that as a consumer, it has little to do with servicability and technologicalk superiority and more to do with feeling railroaded and locked into one vendor vs being able to pick best-of-breed.

which ever you use campagnolo or Shimano you are railroaded into using their proprietry components. Why blame Shimano?
It is a japanese (ie racism) thing

Campag only works with campag. Come on lets blame them for railroading you into being able only use their cassettes with their chains and shifters.

Originally posted by TimB
which ever you use campagnolo or Shimano you are railroaded into using their proprietry components. Why blame Shimano?
It is a japanese (ie racism) thing

Wow... you're really stretching now aren't you? I don't just blame Shimano for doing this. Campy is guilty to some extent although to a lesser extent since their stuff does interoperate more than Shimano and if they're indeed going to embrace ISIS then that's an even better thing. FWIW, I'm looking to mix Shimano and Campy (and misc) in the drivetrain... Shimano 10sp cassette (when it comes out because it'll probably be cheaper by half than Campy for comparable cluster and I like the greater variety) with FSA cranks and chainrings, SRAM chain, Campy derailleurs (front and rear) and Ergo levers pulling Shimano brakes.



Originally posted by TimB

Campag only works with campag. Come on lets blame them for railroading you into being able only use their cassettes with their chains and shifters.

Except that's not currently the case. However it appears it might be the trend. I currently use Shimano Dura-Ace derailleurs, STI shifters, cassette (on Mavic hubs) along with FSA cranks and chainrings and a SRAM chain and they all work perfectly fine. The only mistake I made was going with the Shimano BB which limits my choices in terms of cranksets. I should have chosen ISIS.

I'd like to see you get ergo shifters to work with a Shimano 10s cassette as the spacing is reported to be different.
As far as cranks go you'll always have lots of choice there. I use a FSA team issue carbon pro in octalink version (with has 9speed rings) with a Campagnolo 10s drivetrain and the shifting is better than any campagnolo crankset i've tried (Record included).
The only area IME where campag is better than shimano is in the rear derailleur and ergo shifter layout (which I prefer), however I can live with the STi Layout.

I don't see how Octalink is limiting your choice of cranksets though. All the major Crank Set players ie Shimano, FSA, TA specialities, Stronglight make canks for Octalink. Campag will swithc to ISIS because it cannot makea BB on it's own without changing the std's significantly.

Shimano have now shown a new way to make cranks and BB's stiffer and place lower load on the bearings by mounting the bearing outside the BB shell. Clever, lateral and different from anything that had gone before it.]

Eventually, all cranks will be made this way. and as with Octalink, Imitiation will be the sincerest form of flattery.

PS: The bit on anti japanese ie possible racism was a blanket statement not directed at you Khuon.

I woonder if anyone knows that Shimano bicycle components are designed in Germany by Shimano Europe and manufactured in their plants in the Czech Republic, japan, malaysia....

TimB,

Here I thought maybe we could get over this pimpy bike
stuff and here you go dredging up the shimano/campy war.

(SIGH)

I think alot of the mystique of Campy is leftover from the
record, Nuovo Record and SuperRecord days when you could
repair your own RD's. I haven't tried on a newer one so
I can't comment. However I do know (cause I did it) that
you can repair an Ergo Lever and it isn't all that difficult and
no special tools required (but you do get extra points for
VAR or Campy tools).

I think campy levers will work with shimano cassettes
need to check on that, at least does with spacer kits.

l didn't think the thread was about campy vs. shimano,
but that fact that the new Dura Ace crankset (as seen on
Lance's bike) was mountain bike ugly (Ok, I have my nomex
on now!). I don't care, if FSA, Shimano, Campy, Galli, Stronglight,
TA Cyclotourist or Sakae produced it, it would STILL be UGLY.

thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

Marty
(who still thinks Hinault was a jerk).

Marty
(with whom I agree Hinault was ajerk):D

I agree that crank is not exactly aesthetically pleasing :eek:
But it is one hell of a clever design. Ugly Or noyt I'd still buy it for it's functioning.

Now here is where the myth lies.
Yes Campy ergo's can be repaired and easily too. But so can STI's! And what even better, is the spares are also available form Shimano within 3-4 days worldwide.

I did'nt want to turn this into a Shimano vs campy thread, it's just so irritating that people simply follow Dogma's as truth without actually finding out what that is.

Of course it's not worth repairing Veloce or Ultegra, it's simply cheaper to buy new components but with Chorus, Dura Ace and Record it is viable to reapir and it can be done.

rant over

As been said before:

[1] Ergo vs. STI - Rider preference

[2] Campy drivetrain vs. Shimano drivetrain - Campy doesn't seem to shift quite as smooth as Shimano but smooth enough (for most people). Shimano doesn't seem to last quite as long as Campy but long enough (for most people). It's a wash here in terms of performance. Campy does look prettier though (at least to me) but I then again don't (or shouldn't) stare at my derailleurs when I'm riding the bike.

[3] Campy crank vs. Shimano crank vs. other manufacturer's cranks - I think performancewise, at the very top-end, it's also wash. I'm sure my FSA cranks perform on par with Campy Record-C and Shimano Dura-Ace. After that it's all aesthetics... and price. The Campy cranks cost twice as much and the Shimanos cost about the same. The issue here is that if you went with OctaLink, you'll most likely be forced into buying Shimano's BB and D-A BB's have been criticised for their durability problems. I know many of the touring guys go with Ultegra BBs instead of D-A even if the rest of the bike is D-A. Ugliness aside (and I do think the 2004 D-A cranks are ugly), the new D-A cranks even further solidifies the need to run only one combination of crank and BB. Maybe this will change over time and I hope it does but unfortunately it looks like this is a solution in search of a problem. The MTB crowd never fully bought into the Bullseye crank concept and they're tough on their components. Those who'll want to mix and match will most likely stick with ISIS for a long time... until another open standard comes along.

IMO, the 2004 DA cranks look very cool.

Pivots in 105 derailleurs and to a lesser extent,ultegra,will wear out faster then dura-ace,record or chorus and thus produce sloppier shifting.D/A and record rear derailleurs have ball bearings in the jockey wheels that greatly cut friction relative to the bushings found in less expensive jockey wheels.If you dont go carbon,shimano D/A cranks are lighter and as stiff as campy aluminum.105 group is outstanding when new.Braking and shifting will be weak for a big guy and performance will deteriorate quickly.Heavier riders should consider higher end parts.VeloNews buyer's guide.

Originally posted by TimB
it's just so irritating that people simply follow Dogma's as truth without actually finding out what that is.

And where are people to go to find out the truth? I was under the assumption that this forum was a place that people could go to learn the truth about bikes.

Are they going to learn from you? Since I've been on this forum, I've read your attacks on anyone who disagreed with you, calling them "too cocky and young to understand", saying they have a "narrow mind" because they disagreed with you, condescendingly suggesting that what you had to say was "to techno" for one forum member, calling the same member "blinded", and here labeling as "ignorant" an opinion with foundation in truth, and then calling those that dislike Shimano "racist", except Khoun of course. As you clarified, that was "just" a blanket statement. Name calling and intimidation seem to be your instructional tools.

You've fomented false rumor, "rumblings are the Madone is to flexible", gross mistatements of technological fact, "Al(uminum) has no fatigue limit; it just snaps and fails", and "spoilt" (is that a word in Southend? What is the "Uni" in Southend anyway?) many threads with your cynical bile, "Hinault is the biggest piece of human excrement..."

You want people to find the truth, to learn? Well "we don't need no dark sarcasm...in the classroom", timb-er.

all i know is i stripped two 105 cranks. LBS told me it happened sometimes with the splined BBs--steel being harder than aluminium and all that. could i have done that with a square interface? not likely. but, i'll stick to shimano b/c it's cheaper, plain and simple. i'd love to have record, 'cause i think it's really cool looking and a bit lighter. but the wallet says shimano, i'll take shimano.


oh, and i think the new cranks are incredibly ugly.

Don.d
where is Southend??

I'm glad you understood everything else in the post Timber. ;) Southend is in Egypt, near de'nile.

and you refer to my alleged dark sarcasm....
and who's in de'nile...

I only bring out the tools when somethin needs fixin.:beer: ?

well tanks for pointing out that my tone is being perceived as condescending. I do slip into that rude mode from time to time.

I'm not in Southend London
'Uni' is a university

and I do believe you have used certain extracts from my posts to promote a certain view ie;


too cocky and young to understand
a staement made by the original poster which i merely agreed with.
perhas i should have agreed more sympathetically???


to techno
a genuine request for the poster to indicate if it is more to techinical as I don't know what everybodies background is. no malice intended however it seesm you interpreted it that way even though it had nothing o do with you.

In short; Butt out of discussions that don.d concern you. You'll be a much happier oil baron for it.

I'm feelin just fine right now, tim.:D

PS I know what a Uni is.

i think the new dura ace cranks look pretty cool as well. i don't think the two piece design is very smart, however....and i don't think splined BBs are smart either. i'd rather have 4 big corners holding my cranks in place than 8 tiny little splines. but in the end i guess it's the same amount of metal...

profile (the BMX brand) uses a 48 spline system but also use chromoly steel for their crank arms. most of the top pros use these and they take A LOT of abuse. the other top crank in BMX land is the primo powerbite, which uses aluminum arms and an oversized square steel spindle. the crankarms have pinchbolts on them. if these designs can take the abuse of BMX, then i guess the Dura Ace design can't be all bad. i just worry about what happens when the drive side gets loose on the pressed-fit spindle...not gonna be pretty.

Originally posted by shokhead
Pivots in 105 derailleurs and to a lesser extent,ultegra,will wear out faster then dura-ace,record or chorus and thus produce sloppier shifting.D/A and record rear derailleurs have ball bearings in the jockey wheels that greatly cut friction relative to the bushings found in less expensive jockey wheels.If you dont go carbon,shimano D/A cranks are lighter and as stiff as campy aluminum.105 group is outstanding when new.Braking and shifting will be weak for a big guy and performance will deteriorate quickly.Heavier riders should consider higher end parts.VeloNews buyer's guide.

Could you post a link to that article? I have 105 and am a bigger rider(180lbs). I have about 700 miles on my Felt F65 and have had no problems. The braking seems to be great to me. How many miles does it take to see a loss in performance. I was told the 105 would last, thats why I bought it.

Originally posted by Feltup
Could you post a link to that article? I have 105 and am a bigger rider(180lbs). I have about 700 miles on my Felt F65 and have had no problems. The braking seems to be great to me. How many miles does it take to see a loss in performance. I was told the 105 would last, thats why I bought it.
Its in a mag,velonews buyers guide.

The crank design is trickle-sideways from the 2003 XTR crank which itself is a borrowed idea from the old Bullseye cranks. A long time ago, Cannondale/CODA also borrowed the same concept I believe. I've heard some criticism that the interfaces (on the Bullseyes) were very unforgiving of loose tolerances as the splines wear.

The only way the splines wear is if you mess up while fiting the cranks arms. This is the same system used to fit your car axels onto your transmission. So unless you think you can generate more torque than a V8, this will last you a lifetime. :)

Uh...........okay.

talk about digging up some old history.........