Folding Bikes - REI's Novara Buzz Fly By - folding bike (by Dahon)

I found this on the Bike Hugger blog....

They have been covering the 2008 lineup of REI's Novara brand in their weekly vids.
I'm usually not that excited about Novara bikes, but it looks they partnered with Dahon on one of their frames.

Very interesting... if this doesn't tell you that folding bikes are finally breaking in the US market, I don't know what does.

Post:
http://bikehugger.com/2007/07/novara_buzz_fly_by.htm

Vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4921850917763386737&hl=en

Ehh, there's quite a few rebranded Dahons out there, this is hardly a big deal. IIRC Trek dropped its (Dahon-made) folding bike last year, which few took as a death knell for folders. ;)

Folding bikes are a niche product, and will stay a niche product for a long time. The compromises simply are not worth the conveniences for most cyclists.

This was before I moved to the US, so I might be wrong - but from snippets I've read here and there, didn't REI used to distribute one of the basic Birdy bikes?

Dahon is very smart to partner up with REI; this move could push folding bikes mainstream big time as REI has now established themselves as the Costco of the outdoor world. By the way, that BS about working with Dahon should be edited out in the video: the only work REI did on that bike was to give it a blue paint color with ugly graphics. I see Dahon also sells through Performance, but I don't see Performance really pushing the brand. REI will most likely do a better job since they put it under their own name. It will be interesting to see what REI sells them for and whether Dahon can meet the demand.

REI used to sell the Birdy Green and Silver when it was distributed through Burley. When Burley stopped distributing, REI stopped selling - ca. 1999.

This was before I moved to the US, so I might be wrong - but from snippets I've read here and there, didn't REI used to distribute one of the basic Birdy bikes?

Yep.

EDIT: Posted before I saw SB's post.

I have looked only at the blog post, not the video, but it looks like a modified Mu XL.

REI is hardly costco, but they do have a folding biek coming out. a pump in the seatpost?! how cool?!

I have seen the 2008 Novara catalog at a REI store. The Buzz FlyBy is coming out in January 2008. It is a Dahon MU XL without the front hub dynamo, lights, rear rack, and suspension seatpost. It is 27.4 lbs, about 3 lbs lighter than the XL. No price given, but it could be $200 cheaper than the $900 MU XL.

I heard retail will be $599.

Hmmmmmm.........A comment about a cracked Dahon frame
in the 'comments' section........

Yeah, that's my comment about the cracked frame.

Unfortunately, with cheaper mass-produced bikes, these things happen. (See current thread about a Downtube failure). While one should expect the quality to be good, sometimes things just go wrong.

In those cases, I'd rather deal with a local REI store than with the enigmatic Dahon folks in Southern California.

That was the point of the comment - having REI involved would be a drastic improvement in my overall Dahon experience.

Slightly off-topic but is there any members here who have bought bikes from Rei and experienced their service? One of the LBS I visited basically stated Rei is not a good place to shop for bicycle. I have no way of knowing how true that statement is. I'm still shopping for folding bike and I would not mind buying Buzz Flyby.

$600 would be a very good deal. I have heard only good things about REI bike shops.

+1 on REI as a seller. I bought a bike there a few years ago and they were very helpful, changed some things out as requested, and were great to deal with. They also normally have an excellent return policy, though I have never needed it.

Hopefully Dahon is ready to back them up and have any non-standard parts readily available to them, which I think they will. It should be a great way for Dahon to get their bikes and technology in front of more people.

I just got a Dahon Speed D7, and think the deraillure mounting and action is quite slick. Tucked in forward of the dropouts keeps in inboard and high. But has anybody been bothered by the sound and feel of cross-chaining? Given the short wheelbase of the bike, I guess it is unavoidable but sure sounds like it is taking a toll when in the lowest gears.

REI is hardly costco, but they do have a folding biek coming out. a pump in the seatpost?! how cool?!

Thats Dahon's Seatpost Pump:
http://www.dahon.com/technology/component/zorin.htm

Dahon hooking up with REI is very smart. Lots of people will see the bike that would never otherwise be exposed to a folder. Even if a only a small % of those people buy a folder it will still be a good thing.

Now it just depends how REI decides to market and display this bike. It will be interesting to follow this.

Any exposure is a good thing at this point. In my travels the past few weeks I visited a Performance Bicycle in Mountain View (silicon valley), CA, and found out that while they sell Dahon on their web site, they do not carry them in their stores! Richardson Bike Mart (North Dallas suburb), one of the largest (sq ft) shops in the nation relegates a few dust covered folders to the far back dark corner. None of the shops in my area carry them.

The Fly-By is now on the REI website, priced at $599.
The Dahon 2008 catalog shows what seems to be the same bike, the MU XL Sport, price unknown. Dahon appears to be dropping the fully loaded and 3 lb heavier $900 MU XL and offering the hub generator and rear rack as options.

20% off most REI stuff including bikes, for members, along with dividend, through March. That makes it $479.

http://www.rei.com/product/763242

alright, so what are the differences between the Mu XL Sport for $1000 and the Fly-By for $480-600? There's got to be SOMETHING to make that price difference, right?

From what I've been able to determine from pictures/specs...

Seatpost:
FlyBy = pump post, XL Sport = Kore

Saddle
FlyBy = BioLogic AirFlo , XL Sport = Kore

Grips:
FlyBy = Biologic, XL Sport= Ergon

Latch mechanism:
FlyBy = 2005-2007 style, XL Sport= 2008 style

Tires:
FlyBy = Schwalbe Marathon (Racer?), XL Sport = Schwalbe Kojak

pedals:
FlyBy: fixed folding plastic , XL Sport = MKS EZY quick release pedals

extra:
FlyBy = carry bag, XL Sport = ??

paint:
FlyBy = neato logo-heavy paintjob, XL Sport = boring gunmetal

handlebar:
the Dahon XL Sport has a "7050 aluminum, double-butted" flatbar, whereas the FlyBy MAY have something cheaper/heavier/more generic.

gearhub:
Dahon is calling theirs the "Dahon Special Edition Shimano Premium Nexus 8"
apparently that version might be like 200g lighter than the normal one?
(according to a post I saw here or on the dahon.com forums...)

chain:
FlyBy: KMC Z410, XL Sport = KMC Z610RB (RB = rustbuster)

Brakes and levers seem the same.

I think Dahon stiffened up the handlepost for 2008, but I bet the FlyBy will have the 2007 equivalent?

WEIGHT:
FlyBy = 27.3 lbs, XL Sport = 26.4 lbs

I think all around the FlyBy specs will be just slightly lower
e.g. FlyBy front hub = "Formula" aluminum, XL Sport = Kinetix Neutron Pro

This in no way detracts from the FlyBy still being a perfectly fine bicycle.
It got a good little blurb from Bicycling magazine in this month's edition.
Seems like a more affordable way for someone to get into a nice Mu frame.
(or buy the FlyBy and upgrade it how and when you want...)

REI has now established themselves as the Costco of the outdoor world.

It will be interesting to see what REI sells them for and whether Dahon can meet the demand.

Costco? REI is usually more expensive than most of the small independents and a LOT more expensive than most of the major online retailers. I only shop there for the once a year member 20% discount. Everything else I get cheaper elsewhere.

Both REIs in my area are not going to stock the Fly By. It is a special order item only and neither store has sold one yet. They've been available for order about 2 months. We'll see what happens with it, but it doesn't look like people are lining up, just like they aren't lining up at the few Dahon retailers in town, most of which also do not stock bikes. The "good" shop in town I really like won't touch folders because their surveys show virtually no interest among their clientel. I'd say the price difference between the REI bike and the Mu is probably because REI negotiated what they felt was a price point they might actually sell a few at. From the looks of it at the REI stores near here, there is not going to be some large promotion campaign for these bikes.

Anyway, I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just saying I don't see this as evidence of anything except Dahon trying to land a major retail brand after Trek lost interest. Most of the world seems to see folders as "interesting" but impractical. I don't see the iPod of folding bikes out of this little partnership or any folder making headlines with record sales. I have to say riding around the Bike Friday sometimes I pass it up for a full size now and then because I still like the feel of a full-size bike. I also have noticed bending the cables folding it knocks the derailer settings out much more quickly which is an annoyance to me. The Bike Friday is a great bike, but if I were going to own one bike I don't think a folder would be it, at least not yet.

The Fly-By is now on the REI website, priced at $599.
(...) Dahon appears to be dropping the fully loaded and 3 lb heavier $900 MU XL and offering the hub generator and rear rack as options.

The Mu XL (non-Sport) still exists... just as a Global/International model though:
http://www.dahon.com/intl/muxl.htm

REI has great customer service. They stand behind their products forever.

REI has great customer service. They stand behind their products forever.


That is very true. Also, don't forget that though their prices are high if you're a member you get 10% back at the end of the year. Also, I use their credit card so I earn 1% in dividend on all my charges.

As for the bike, I just tried it out. Seems OK, kind of heavy, but it's too short for me. Perhaps if it had a handlebar stem, but it doesn't, and I believe all those parts are proprietary.

Too short in what way? Seat to handlebar? Seat to pedals? Can you tell us how tall you are so those of us who have not ridden the FlyBy can gauge whether it may fit us?

Seat to handlebar is much too short for me. I'm 6'1", long upper body and short legs.

Too short in what way? Seat to handlebar? Seat to pedals? Can you tell us how tall you are so those of us who have not ridden the FlyBy can gauge whether it may fit us?

Keep in mind that the seat to handlebar being too short is pretty much equal to the seat to pedals being too long. Due to the angled seat post, increasing the seat to pedal distance also increases the seat to handlebar distance.

So it seems that werewolf's problem isn't so much his height as it is his disproportionate upper/lower bodies. If he had long legs then raising the seat post would give him more seat to handlebar distance.

Keep in mind that the seat to handlebar being too short is pretty much equal to the seat to pedals being too long. Due to the angled seat post, increasing the seat to pedal distance also increases the seat to handlebar distance.

So it seems that werewolf's problem isn't so much his height as it is his disproportionate upper/lower bodies. If he had long legs then raising the seat post would give him more seat to handlebar distance.


Then to be fair I have to tell you the seat was too low, too. It could have gone higher. The REI man was going to raise it but I said don't bother, it's just a short ride. I didn't make that connection between seat hight and length. It still wouldn't have been right for me, I'm quite sure, but like Makeinu said, no doubt that's because of my odd build, closely resembling that of the mountain gorilla.

Then to be fair I have to tell you the seat was too low, too. It could have gone higher. The REI man was going to raise it but I said don't bother, it's just a short ride. I didn't make that connection between seat hight and length. It still wouldn't have been right for me, I'm quite sure, but like Makeinu said, no doubt that's because of my odd build, closely resembling that of the mountain gorilla.

I have the same build with stubby legs and I'm assuming you're probably fairly wide also at the shoulders also. I'm having issues with my tikit handlebars not being long (wide) enough. I wear a 48 Tall jacket and then get it taken in at the waist so it doesn't look too tight across the chest or have enough room at the waist to get my wife in with me. I thought about changing out the bars on the tikit, but the left grip drags the ground as it is when folded. On the handful of folders I've tried I have to bring my arms in instead of straight out like I can do on my full size bikes. It hurts my shoulders on longer rides having to do that.

Yes, I have wide shoulders, too. Peter Reich is building up a Swift that fits me.

I found this on the Bike Hugger blog....

They have been covering the 2008 lineup of REI's Novara brand in their weekly vids.
I'm usually not that excited about Novara bikes, but it looks they partnered with Dahon on one of their frames.

Very interesting... if this doesn't tell you that folding bikes are finally breaking in the US market, I don't know what does.

Post:
http://bikehugger.com/2007/07/novara_buzz_fly_by.htm

Vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4921850917763386737&hl=en

Update:

One of the REIs in the area has one display Fly By now in spite of them telling me previously they weren't going to stock them. The other one still doesn't have any. (I was in both this weekend.) The REI that has one on display says they haven't sold one yet, but in any case they do have one on the floor.

I was more excited to look at their commuter bike called the Fusion. It's pretty loaded and pretty cheap. It felt nice and pedaled easy. It's heavy, but most decked out commuters are. It would make a great bike for the money if you had a rack to tie it down to at work or school. There's a company called Dutch Bikes that looks pretty interesting, too, but I digress...

REI Fusion

http://www.rei.com/product/744803

I agree with you, I'd be more interested in it than their folder. 20% off through March.

some discussions on the fusion that i found:

http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?do=process

I'm a big fan of the Mu frame. Although I'm not currently in the market for a new bike I'll be sure to check out this deal again next year.

There aren't too many 8 speed internally hubed bikes in the $400-$500 price range and with the standard Mu frame and the Shimano Nexus hub this one seems like a steal.

Wish we had the range of models and prices you have in the US. We get to pay a premium for our dahons and have a limited number of models here in Australia. I would hand my $599 over in a heartbeat for a Fly :-(

+1

I'm a big fan of the Mu frame...

What's an Mu frame?

Australians - You're closer to east Asia where most bikes are made. They should be cheaper over there, not more expensive.

Greets from Japan all.

Its not the closeness to the factory that determines the price, but its more effected by import taxes, VAT, etc.., and the local market...

We're right next door to China, and you'd be amazed to hear how much Dahon's, my Mu P8'08 included, are selling for.

Good winds,
K.

I was more excited to look at their commuter bike called the Fusion.
The Fusion is a hot bike!

What's an Mu frame?

All the bikes sold under the "Dahon" brand name with this frame have model names starting with "Mu". For example, "Mu SL", "Mu P8", "Mu XL", "Mu P24", etc.

I have a question for your experienced folder riders. Do you think this bike would fit into a Samsonite Oyster suitcase? I rode one this afternoon at my local REI and the bike seemed to fit fine and I thought the ride was quite nice. I am not an experienced folder person so, I am curious as to what opinions are out there in regard to getting this thing into a suitcase for air travel? 20% is enticing me, but not if it doesn't in a suitcase.

I have been reading many postings and appreciate your opinions.

I just test rode the FlyBy a couple days ago myself and was very impressed. For the $479 member-only sale price it is a steal. I, too, was wondering what kind of suitcase it would fit in and found this in earlier posts here:

http://www.gaerlan.com/dahon/pack.htm

The FlyBy is a 20-inch wheel Dahon just as in the example so I imagine the instructions would probably apply even easier because the FlyBy handlebars flip down between the frame making a narrower package and it has no derailleur to dismantle. The site describes packing a 30-inch case and the 29-inch Oyster.

The Fusion is a hot bike!

Si. Es muy caliente. :)

Check these out: http://www.dutchbikes.us/

Chainstrainer, thanks for the feedback. The Gaerlan website makes the packing look quite feasible, I think I can manage that. So I may go make a purchase today.

Mr. Smith, Mae FlyBy beic yn poeth, hefyd. (Welsh language for the FlyBy bike is hot, also.):)

I've test rode the REI folder and the Fusion and the Randonee. In my opinion, the Randonee is the best REI bike by far. $950 - 20%.

Does anybody know the answer to this question: REI is offering members a 20% discount on one item through March (some exclusions, like their boats). Do you also get the normal REI 10% discount on top of that? Plus, if you use the REI credit card, you earn 1% REI credit (or cash) on ALL purchases.

I've test rode the REI folder and the Fusion and the Randonee. In my opinion, the Randonee is the best REI bike by far. $950 - 20%.

Does anybody know the answer to this question: REI is offering members a 20% discount on one item through March (some exclusions, like their boats). Do you also get the normal REI 10% discount on top of that? Plus, if you use the REI credit card, you earn 1% REI credit (or cash) on ALL purchases.

You only get the 20% off on one full price item with exclusions. The only bikes you can get the 20% off on are K2, Novara, and any 2007 clearance bike. Not sure about using the credit card... Don't have that one.

All those bikes I mentioned are covered by the 20% discount, but my question was would I also get the normal REI 10% dividend in addition to that, making it 30%? The 1% credit card discount should be no problem. That applies to all purchases everyplace, so it would be at least 21% off, and 31% off if the dividend kicks in too.