A TRIBUTE TO (and in defense of) MICHAEL RASMUSSEN

[mlvernal]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michael was on his way to fulfill a life long dream and win the yellow jersey of the Tour de France 2007. Three days before he could step up on the podium on Champs Élysées in Paris, he was fired from his team on grounds of lying about his whereabouts during his training period.

Michael was not tested positive in any of the 15 tests taken on him during the Tour 2007. When he was thrown out of the race he held a comfortable 3 minutes to second place Alberto Contador. The Tour de France 2007 was for all intents and purposes stopped prematurely.

Michael Rasmussen showed formidable form, fatigue and cunning, brilliant strategic planning and in every way he lived up to the legendary heroes of the Tour de France. To many's suprise (and apparantly dismay) he created the Tour 2007 single-handedly - of course with impressive support from his Rabobank teammates.

The decision to throw him out of the tour - three days from the podium in Champs Élysées - is not only a far cry from fair. It also represents a new moralist approach that has nothing to do with the idea that is the Tour de France: A poetic, brutal and extreme sport where rules are - if not irrelevant - then certainly secondary to the goal. As such the participants of the Tour de France are not role models to follow. As such the sport itself does not mirror the ever-changing moralities of the modern, western civilization. And as such, putting it under moral and political scrutiny says more about our society than it does about the Tour de France and indeed the participants themselves (even counting the bad apples).

It will happen again, when a tour-rider will be accused of not living up to expectations and regulations, and when heresays and rumours again will be swarming around his team and in the press. What then? Will this again be grounds on which to disqualify him from the race, fire him from his team or sanction him with even harsher means practically ruining his career (or going a long way to ensure that it is)?

The answer from a non-moralist and non-religious perspective is that this should never be the case. Indeed, I am not supporting doping. But I will remind that doping is a part of the Tour and will always be a part of extreme sports. Of course the sport should be clean. But when realizing it isn't, and when subsequently waging a new "war on drugs", it is absolutely imperative that we do not loose sight of what is important. Not the moral view of the decade. But steadfast principles as rule of law and civil rights. And of course the beauty, entertainment and downright action that is inherent in sports like the Tour de France.

So here is a tribute to Michael Rasmussen for representing the latter three. And of course a tribute to the poetry of the Tour itself. A poetry that Michael wrote so well during the tense days of the Tour 2007.

Thanks for reading!! :)

If you want to show your support there are sites out there where you can. For instance www.kyllingen.com (chicken) and the myspace profile www.myspace.com/michaelrasmussen_2007.

-mlv

[bbattle]

The Chicken is a cheater and a liar and as such, he got what he deserved. Rabobank did the right thing. End of story.

[FixdGearHead]

All this would've been a moot point had Rasmussen not broken UCI & team rules; let alone falsify his whereabouts. If he's telling the truth (eg Mexico vs Italy), it's an easy fact to prove.

I don't know if MR doped...he may have, he may have not; but I have a difficult time believing a Pro Cyclist of his experience simply "forgot to check in" etc...so yes, for me, it is a case of 'Where there's smoke, there's fire."

[julian]

You want to accept doping in cycling?

I agree he got what he deserved. He didn't follow the rules, lied and cheated and put a fellow mountain biker in jeapordy by trying to get him to deliver banned substances to him in Italy by lying to him.

I read his evasive interview and he said nothing to convince me he was innocent. No way his team fires him without some darn good reasons.

[FixdGearHead]

When you answer a question such as "Wouldn't a passport or travel documents clarify your whereabouts?" with:

"Well, what I am saying is that now we have to see what the [legal] case brings and we will take it from there."

Something's definitely rotten in the state of Denmark

[Enthalpic]

for me, it is a case of 'Where there's smoke, there's fire."

Lance and Floyd produce more carbon emissions than China yet they still seem to get a lot of support around here. It’s a conspiracy!

No love for Vino or the chicken?

[orestes]

The team should have gotten rid of him before the tour even started for evading those drug tests.

[squeakywheel]

He didn't follow the rules. Shouldn't be surprised to be ejected.

BTW, where does Rasmussen now say he was during the weeks preceding the tour? Is he claiming Mexico or Italy now?

[erader]

Lance and Floyd produce more carbon emissions than China yet they still seem to get a lot of support around here. It’s a conspiracy!

No love for Vino or the chicken?


landis is a punk and hope he is stripped of his TDF victory. lance doped but was never busted. what ras did was stupid and indicative of a cheater.

glad to see his stupid ass stripped of the MJ right when it looked to be a done deal. couldn't think of a better ending :eek:.

ed rader

[FixdGearHead]

Lance and Floyd produce more carbon emissions than China yet they still seem to get a lot of support around here. It’s a conspiracy!

No love for Vino or the chicken?


- Vino's positive A and B samples is a bit more than "Smoke", that's a full on forest fire ;)
- Until the Chicken can prove (again, which is easy to do) where he really was, it's overtly suspicious.
- I believe Floyd is guilty; unfortunately I don't think it will ever be concretely proved one way or the other.
- Of all three, there's less smoke around Lance than Ras, Floyd or Vino....while I personally believe Lance had used PEDs in his past, he never falsified his location and posted a negative result of every test he's taken (no, that doesn't prove he never used, but it's all you have to go on if basing arguments on documented facts)

[ch9862]

I'd like to hear if MR actually comes up with some evidence to back his story up. I've only heard "they only have one man's word - that's crazy". But that's not the same as presenting something to show he really was in Mexico. Seems unfair the accused has to prove his innocence, but if he's clean, he should be willing to do it; I know I would, no matter how pissed off I'd be...

[Keith99]

I'd like to hear if MR actually comes up with some evidence to back his story up. I've only heard "they only have one man's word - that's crazy". But that's not the same as presenting something to show he really was in Mexico. Seems unfair the accused has to prove his innocence, but if he's clean, he should be willing to do it; I know I would, no matter how pissed off I'd be...

They have more than one mans word. They have that, but they also have an entirely independent AP photoshoot at a bike shop. That photoshoot on the very day he missed a drug test.

Oops.

And at this point I would not be surprised to eventually find out his team has even more.

If I were to try to pick the big question at this point it would be how much did Rabobank know and how soon did they know it. E.g. were they the investigator in this or the co conspiritor?

[urodacus]

doping fraud. not appearing for drug tests is the same as doping, period. lying is worse.

[Laggard]

Lance and Floyd produce more carbon emissions than China...


Now that's funny. :)

[Burningman]

Doesn't what he did come down to "breach of contract" and so the team is very much able fire him.

When confronted with the truth,he first lied again,then gave in and said , yes he'd been in Italy.....the team fired him on the spot....

He lied to avoid the dope tests then lies to the team again during the tour....Ya,I'd fire his ass too

[Bacciagalupe]

To many's suprise (and apparantly dismay) he created the Tour 2007 single-handedly - of course with impressive support from his Rabobank teammates.
What tour were YOU watching? True, he grabbed the lead, had tremendous luck and good skills (and who knows what else...) on his TT, and did well on the mountains. But he hardly controlled the peloton Lance-style.


the participants of the Tour de France are not role models to follow. As such the sport itself does not mirror the ever-changing moralities of the modern, western civilization. And as such, putting it under moral and political scrutiny says more about our society than it does about the Tour de France and indeed the participants themselves (even counting the bad apples).
What a crock.

Mind you, I hardly treat athletes as though they are moral paragons; many of the athletes in my high school, for example, had the moral development of a 5 year old.

But with Rasmussen, he apparently lied about his whereabouts and fudged his story in enough ways to make it rather plausible that he was attempting to avoid the doping controls. All he had to do was say "I can give you proof of my whereabouts within 24 hours" -- or, possibly, wave his passport around -- and Rabobank would not have fired him.

Modification of moral standards to suit your preferred outcome is slightly ridiculous. What can I say, cheating and lying are generally not considered professional behavior. (Unless you're working in Russia...)


Indeed, I am not supporting doping. But I will remind that doping is a part of the Tour and will always be a part of extreme sports. Of course the sport should be clean. But when realizing it isn't, and when subsequently waging a new "war on drugs", it is absolutely imperative that we do not loose sight of what is important. Not the moral view of the decade. But steadfast principles as rule of law and civil rights.
I see no evidence that Rasmussen was deprived of his rights. He failed to convince his team that he was telling the truth -- or to even stall them long enough for him to present evidence that he was where he says he was. Considering his position, it is reasonable to assume he had no proof.

Shouldn't he have phone records? ATM receipts? Passport stamps? Credit card statements?

"Moral issues aside," the guy raised suspicions in his own DS, was incapable of mediating those suspicions (even for long enough to present proof of his assertions), and the suspicions were strong enough that the DS booted out his #1 guy.

Unless Ras can provide good evidence that he was where he says he was, please spare us the sanctimoniousness.

[vjp]

not appearing for drug tests is the same as doping, period.

Wrong.

[VT Biker]

I'd like to hear if MR actually comes up with some evidence to back his story up. I've only heard "they only have one man's word - that's crazy". But that's not the same as presenting something to show he really was in Mexico. Seems unfair the accused has to prove his innocence, but if he's clean, he should be willing to do it; I know I would, no matter how pissed off I'd be...

The best part is, that one man's testimony was made on national television before the controversy even started. Prior to the Danish Team's announcement, the former Italian cyclist (working as a commentator on a European television broadcast covering the Tour) mentioned meeting Rasmussan at the top of some mountain in the Dolomites. He mentioned this casually in part as he was praising Michael Rasmussan.

Only after the Danish authorities announced the infractions did this comment become controversial. I think too many people have the timeline screwed up. They think the guy claimed to have seen Rasmussan AFTER the controversy broke out.

[VT Biker]

Wrong.

You are correct - it is not a 100% correlation. However, it does not matter. The team and the ASO have the right to fire or bar someone from riding if they feel it hurts the team or their image. People confuse the US Court System with the rest of life. Our education system is really broke.

[julian]

You are correct - it is not a 100% correlation. However, it does not matter. The team and the ASO have the right to fire or bar someone from riding if they feel it hurts the team or their image. People confuse the US Court System with the rest of life. Our education system is really broke.

Many people are convicted on circumstantial evidence.

Most people brought to trail are found guilty. Some who are found guilty are innocent although this is a very small percentage.

And Rasumssen says "on one man's word" well he is one man's word too and his words ring hollow.

Probably a 99 percent chance he was lying about his wear abouts because he had something to hide and that was probably doping. Why would he miss tests and lie about his where abouts?

[SunSwingsLow]

The very premiss of the article is flawed. It operates under the assumption that the TdF or ASO had MR removed from the race. When in fact it was his own team who withdrew him from the TdF and not the ASO. He violated team rules, and THAT got him tossed from the TdF by his OWN team.

Me thinks the newbie is a troll.

[VT Biker]

Many people are convicted on circumstantial evidence.

Most people brought to trail are found guilty. Some who are found guilty are innocent although this is a very small percentage.

And Rasumssen says "on one man's word" well he is one man's word too and his words ring hollow.

Probably a 99 percent chance he was lying about his wear abouts because he had something to hide and that was probably doping. Why would he miss tests and lie about his where abouts?

I agree completely about conviction with circumstantial evidence.

What I am asserting to is that many of the posters on this board are upset Rasmussan was yanked without due process. And as I am trying to educate these people is that due process only occurs in the US Court System (not sure about the European court systems, pretty sure this is not the case in Saudi Arabia!!).

But they take the idea of due process, and seem to think that the ASO and Rabobank should have withheld any action against Rasmussan until they could prove he was lying. I am hoping they come away from this entire situation realizing that in the private world, due process is not required to fire most employees or to kick someone out of a non-public event (the Tour de France).

[erader]

I agree completely about conviction with circumstantial evidence.

What I am asserting to is that many of the posters on this board are upset Rasmussan was yanked without due process. And as I am trying to educate these people is that due process only occurs in the US Court System (not sure about the European court systems, pretty sure this is not the case in Saudi Arabia!!).
But they take the idea of due process, and seem to think that the ASO and Rabobank should have withheld any action against Rasmussan until they could prove he was lying. I am hoping they come away from this entire situation realizing that in the private world, due process is not required to fire most employees or to kick someone out of a non-public event (the Tour de France).

or in guantanamo :eek:.

ed rader

[vjp]

You are correct - it is not a 100% correlation. However, it does not matter. The team and the ASO have the right to fire or bar someone from riding if they feel it hurts the team or their image. People confuse the US Court System with the rest of life. Our education system is really broke.

Correct!!

[ch9862]

That photoshoot on the very day he missed a drug test.Really? I'm curious how will MR's story unfold.

I'm not very comfortable with the "rider takes all the consequences, and as soon as the story breaks out" model, but if we agree that many (?) dopers pass current tests without breaking sweat, then presuming everyone's innocence doesn't seem very helpful either...

[Amodelkmino]

PLACE YOUR SIGNATURE AT WWW.KYLLINGEN.COM (http://www.KYLLINGEN.COM) AND SUPPORT A GREAT RIDER IN TOUGH TIMES

[imnotclever]

Flight stub/ schedule/ payment?
Hotel charges?
credit card statements, i.e. you don't go to Mexico and not buy something.

It can't be that hard if he WAS telling the truth. Was that is...

[jotog]

I know the rules at my work and I abide them for so much le$$.

[VT Biker]

I know the rules at my work and I abide them for so much le$$.

Everyone on this board does.

In all seriousness, Rabobank could have decided to fire Rasmussan on the grounds that he was too thin and as scaring off potential customers to Rabobank. Since pro cyclists really are nothing more than paid spokespeople, they are retained only to the extent they are providing a net benefit to the sponsor. We may not like the idea that these athletes are the same as somebody on a late night infomercial, but they are.

And just like Nike was able to suspend Michael Vick (and stop paying him) even though he is innocent until proven guilty, Rabobank can do the same thing.

[NPGScorpio]

I know the rules at my work and I abide them for so much le$$.

Agreed. I have to account for my whereabouts to my employer 5 and sometimes 6 days every week. And those whereabouts always have to be the same place.

[adamfresno]

I agree completely about conviction with circumstantial evidence.

What I am asserting to is that many of the posters on this board are upset Rasmussan was yanked without due process. And as I am trying to educate these people is that due process only occurs in the US Court System (not sure about the European court systems, pretty sure this is not the case in Saudi Arabia!!).

But they take the idea of due process, and seem to think that the ASO and Rabobank should have withheld any action against Rasmussan until they could prove he was lying. I am hoping they come away from this entire situation realizing that in the private world, due process is not required to fire most employees or to kick someone out of a non-public event (the Tour de France).

Thank you for educating me and other posters...The fact that there might not be a due process does not mean people are fools for being upset or to like to see it another way.

[VT Biker]

Thank you for educating me and other posters...The fact that there might not be a due process does not mean people are fools for being upset or to like to see it another way.

The problem is that these Tours cannot be replayed. If we were to have waited for due process with Rasmussan, we would have finished with him parading through Paris, and now like Landis, waited for over a year to get the final result of the race.

That is what will kill these tours. If we never really feel confident that the winner will remain the winner, then the interest will die. Fast, quick, and punitive action needs to be taken (not from a criminal standpoint, but from a participation standpoint) in order to try to correct the injustice quickly enough to give better odds that the winner at the end remains the winner.

Now I grant you (you were already going to respond I am sure) that now with Contador, it looks as if the flames are starting to grow around him, and he may be stripped as well. However, this process with WADA and the German judge will take a long time at this point, since ASO cannot just kick him out. But, given time, if riders realize that any suspicious behavior will be grounds for dismissal from their invitation to ride the Tour, it will provide a greater disincentive to doping amongst the teams and riders.

[Keith99]

Flight stub/ schedule/ payment?
Hotel charges?
credit card statements, i.e. you don't go to Mexico and not buy something.

It can't be that hard if he WAS telling the truth. Was that is...

Hotel? You realize his wife is Mexican don't you? If he was training it is perfectly easonable that he would have bought nothing himself. Actually I would expect someone who had planned a hoax to have more good evidence than someone in his situation who was not up to anything.

Except for the traces of travel of course. Even if all he can remember is the airline in question one would think evidence of travel could be found.

[Keith99]

The very premiss of the article is flawed. It operates under the assumption that the TdF or ASO had MR removed from the race. When in fact it was his own team who withdrew him from the TdF and not the ASO. He violated team rules, and THAT got him tossed from the TdF by his OWN team.

Me thinks the newbie is a troll.

That comes down to fact vrs. form. Yes as to form he was tossed by his own team. But under how much preasure? If in fact threats were made, which has been reported from some sources then he was not tossed by his team, at least not of their own free will.

[Keith99]

^^
Reading those posts I would be inclined to think the write thought Rasmussen was clean. Right now I'm actually leaning the other way. But just leaning. I do not think things are clear at this point. I actually hope it is the team finally got upset because he was lying to everyone, including them. Not because I hate Rasmussen, but because any alternative I can think of is worse.

[Bacciagalupe]

Hotel? You realize his wife is Mexican don't you? If he was training it is perfectly easonable that he would have bought nothing himself.....
Oh c'mon.

He won't have hotel charges. But he will have phone records, credit card purchases, ATM slips, etc. The guy is not Donald Trump traveling with an entourage that spares him the indignity of handing over cash to a waiter....


now with Contador, it looks as if the flames are starting to grow around him, and he may be stripped as well.
Yeah, well. Unlike some other riders, Contador has apparently openly stated he is willing to take a DNA test to indicate he was not working with Fuentes.

While anything is possible and the OP data has not all been thoroughly examined (or heck, he could've used another doctor), that does not seem like the action of a guilty man.

And while the situation obviously breeds cynicsm, busting a few riders does not license anyone to throw about wild accusations with the slightest (or no) provocation. Evidence first, accusations second.

[pedalada]

The best part is, that one man's testimony was made on national television before the controversy even started. Prior to the Danish Team's announcement, the former Italian cyclist (working as a commentator on a European television broadcast covering the Tour) mentioned meeting Rasmussan at the top of some mountain in the Dolomites. He mentioned this casually in part as he was praising Michael Rasmussan.

Only after the Danish authorities announced the infractions did this comment become controversial. I think too many people have the timeline screwed up. They think the guy claimed to have seen Rasmussan AFTER the controversy broke out.

Strictly speaking I'm not sure what Ras did amounts to an "infraction", if I understand it correctly riders get 3 warnings on filing their whereabouts and Ras only got 2? This is not to say that Rabobank like any other commercial entity can not dispose of one of their employees/riders any time they want. Its pretty important to the topic for people to understand that Ras never turned a positive result or conclusively broke a rule proportionate to being sacked while leading the TdF.

I'm not a big Ras fan but thats just how it looks.

[Smoothie104]

Oh c'mon.

He won't have hotel charges. But he will have phone records, credit card purchases, ATM slips, etc. The guy is not Donald Trump traveling with an entourage that spares him the indignity of handing over cash to a waiter....



Yeah, well. Unlike some other riders, Contador has apparently openly stated he is willing to take a DNA test to indicate he was not working with Fuentes.

While anything is possible and the OP data has not all been thoroughly examined (or heck, he could've used another doctor), that does not seem like the action of a guilty man.

And while the situation obviously breeds cynicsm, busting a few riders does not license anyone to throw about wild accusations with the slightest (or no) provocation. Evidence first, accusations second.


Contador saying he is willing to give a DNA test may mean

a. he is willing, but he knows he won't have to

b. he is willing becuase he knows none of his blood is there, because he uses a different blood chemist to prepare for his big races

[VT Biker]

Contador saying he is willing to give a DNA test may mean

a. he is willing, but he knows he won't have to

b. he is willing becuase he knows none of his blood is there, because he uses a different blood chemist to prepare for his big races


I go with option (c):

Claim youl will give your DNA to the authorities, in the hopes that by acting as innocent as possible, it decreases the incentive and pressure on authorities to investigate. It is the "play dead" approach. Once they actually demand his DNA, he will suddenly claim that his lawyer is advising him not to due to an invasion of privacy...blah...blah...blah...

[Miguelangel]

FOr those who have not heard him speak...here is the article based on MR press conference yesterday
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=/features/2007/tour_rasmussen_post07
I still cant understand how is it that Rasmussen is as guilty as those that came out positive in a test.... I wuld vote to kick out all riders that had two warnings like MR did... ooops we would see the tour participants cut in almost half....
BTW, Ivan Mayo came out positive in a drug test on the second day of rest....

Now the Tour will change forever because of this. There is talk of allowing national teams as well as sponsored teams and making the stages shorter and less challenging.... Comentaries from Spain say these and other changes will allow a bigger number of french nationals to participate.... Maybe the French will finally see a french man standing on the podium...of course we shall never see the likes of L. fignon and company...who knows???

[reef58]

Maybe he wasn't involved in OP.

Richard

Contador saying he is willing to give a DNA test may mean

a. he is willing, but he knows he won't have to

b. he is willing becuase he knows none of his blood is there, because he uses a different blood chemist to prepare for his big races

[VT Biker]

FOr those who have not heard him speak...here is the article based on MR press conference yesterday
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=/features/2007/tour_rasmussen_post07
I still cant understand how is it that Rasmussen is as guilty as those that came out positive in a test.... I wuld vote to kick out all riders that had two warnings like MR did... ooops we would see the tour participants cut in almost half....
BTW, Ivan Mayo came out positive in a drug test on the second day of rest....

Now the Tour will change forever because of this. There is talk of allowing national teams as well as sponsored teams and making the stages shorter and less challenging.... Comentaries from Spain say these and other changes will allow a bigger number of french nationals to participate.... Maybe the French will finally see a french man standing on the podium...of course we shall never see the likes of L. fignon and company...who knows???


Miguelangel:

are you so incapable of seeing the nuances between Rasmussan's infraction and the infractions perhaps of other riders? Quantity over Quality? Where do I even start?

I. The ASO and the Tour de France Invite riders to ride

The ASO can kick someone out technically if they think the person is ugly, or they think he makes the Tour look bad. The ASO invites, hence, riding in the Tour is a privledge, not a right. Rasmussan can still ride for another UCI team if he wants, he has not lost that right. What ASO did was basically tell Rabobank that their Tour was being ruined by someone who was causing it negative press. Since ASO has the right to kick him out, they did.

II. Rasmussan's evaded testing right before the Tour

Rasmussan did not miss a test 3 years ago, or even 6 months ago. It was right before the Tour. I mean, there is a difference between someone who missed a last fall, and in January versus Rasmussan who evaded testing right before the Tour. And he did not just miss a test from hapenstance. No - he deliberately lied and misled the Danish authorities, his team, the UCI, ASO and the public. Why, if he was clean, would he do that?

III. Rasmussan is not as guilty as others

You seem to state that Rasmussan is as guilty as the others who were actually caught. Well - yes, in the eyes of people like me, they are. However, he is not losing his UCI license, he right to ride, his salary or any other privledge that a guy like Mayo is going to lose now that he was tagged for doping. Now, if your assertion is the public is throwing him into the same pot of water..well sure. But these riders need to understand this. They need to realize that as sponsored riders, they represent companies paying money to advertise. These riders need to be clean in both fact and appearance. And he had to realize that as a potential KOM and GC contendor, he was going to be representing Rabobank more than anyone else. To skirt the rules so blatantly (if clean or dirty) was a direct violation of the above principle. You have to admit, his antics paint him as someone who clearly did not want to be tested before the Tour. Why, if clean, would he jeopordize his career by evading doping testing authorities. You probably will tell me that know one can know, so give him the benefit of doubt. Sorry - fool me once...you get it.

[Keith99]

"It is highly reprehensible that a race director feels that he has the right to kick riders out of the competition and 'choose' the winner himself," responded Rasmussen when asked about ASO pressuring Rabobank into its decision. "Meaning, if he wanted to, he could attack Contador, attack Evans and ... so maybe a Frenchman could be on the podium..."

Yea, that's it. Get a few more and a Frenchman on the Podium. How many? They would need 24 more.

I now know there is someone I do not like or trust. Jsut need to be sure if it is Rasmussen or the article writer.

[VT Biker]

Maybe he wasn't involved in OP.

Richard

Well,

based on the evidence I have read about, it is not like there is a bag of blood sitting around waiting for his DNA in order to match it. Everything described is a chemical / hormone enhancement, which would not really be caught through a DNA match. So what they have instead is a paper trail. I am guessing Contador is probably confident about the DNA issue, because that is not going to catch him and link him to OP like it did Birillo.

[reef58]

This evidence you speak of. Where can I see it? Or are you by any chance referring to the German guy that proclaimed Contador's victory the biggest sham in sports history. If that is it your threshold of evidence is pretty low. Let's talk evidence when these documents are released. Until then we have hearsay on the order of Jerry Springer.

Richard

Well,

based on the evidence I have read about, it is not like there is a bag of blood sitting around waiting for his DNA in order to match it. Everything described is a chemical / hormone enhancement, which would not really be caught through a DNA match. So what they have instead is a paper trail. I am guessing Contador is probably confident about the DNA issue, because that is not going to catch him and link him to OP like it did Birillo.

[VT Biker]

This evidence you speak of. Where can I see it? Or are you by any chance referring to the German guy that proclaimed Contador's victory the biggest sham in sports history. If that is it your threshold of evidence is pretty low. Let's talk evidence when these documents are released. Until then we have hearsay on the order of Jerry Springer.

Richard

Well,

fine - it is not "evidence" from the fact that there are documents produced yet. But this is what the German is claiming for evidence. Regardless, if not actually evidence, Contador is fine, and if this is the evidence the German has, and he presents it, my point still stands, no?

[Smoothie104]

I go with option (c):

Claim youl will give your DNA to the authorities, in the hopes that by acting as innocent as possible, it decreases the incentive and pressure on authorities to investigate. It is the "play dead" approach. Once they actually demand his DNA, he will suddenly claim that his lawyer is advising him not to due to an invasion of privacy...blah...blah...blah...


your right thats what ullrich did... for a while.. hahahaaaa

[Smoothie104]

Maybe he wasn't involved in OP.

Richard


Just everyone else on his team, ie the guys he trains and races, and travels and rooms with most of the year...and the Team Manager. But he knows nothing, and never saw anything etc..... Remember, when going into battle, you always give your best weapons the most care.

[reef58]

I would say if the guy produces evidence that is credible then yes. If I had a goose that laid golden eggs I would be rich. I just can't get all worked up over the little info that has been presented. I am not saying it is not forthcoming, but until then remember the Soler rumor Friday?

Richard

Well,

fine - it is not "evidence" from the fact that there are documents produced yet. But this is what the German is claiming for evidence. Regardless, if not actually evidence, Contador is fine, and if this is the evidence the German has, and he presents it, my point still stands, no?

[reef58]

Did I say he knows nothing or saw nothing? Please point that out. All I said is maybe he wasn't a client.

Richard

Just everyone else on his team, ie the guys he trains and races, and travels and rooms with most of the year...and the Team Manager. But he knows nothing, and saw nothing etc.....