no wonder that stiff was riding so well :eek:!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul31news

ed rader

The fun is really just beginning no? Iban Mayo, then Contador (see Velonews - they have a piece stating that essentially there is evidence of multiple PED's used by Contador).

Thank god we can all ride ourselves. What would we do if cycling was purely a spectator sport.

It seems like Russian Roulette is the name of the game :eek:

I am all for it at this point. I mean, when only 1 or 2 get popped, it does not send the message. We need an all out blood-bath to the pount where these teams and sponsors really begin to hold their riders accountable.

I am all for it at this point. I mean, when only 1 or 2 get popped, it does not send the message. We need an all out blood-bath to the pount where these teams and sponsors really begin to hold their riders accountable.

i'll bet rasmussen's phone is ringing off the hook with job offers :eek:.

ed rader

*sigh* I was hoping no one else would test positive, but clearly had doubts.

David Millar would have had a fit if he was kicked out of the tour! :eek:

VeloNews linkage (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13018.0.html)

PezCycling News (http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5173&status=True) wrap-up

i'll bet rasmussen's phone is ringing off the hook with job offers :eek:.

ed rader

Disco probably already contacted him on Friday afternoon. ;)

Disco probably already contacted him on Friday afternoon. ;)

it wouldn't surprise me...they did hire basso :eek:!

ed rader

Wow - the amazing thing is how many big names have popped up in this race.

Think of it this way: if you could get the money together, you could put together quite a team in about 2-years.

Wow - the amazing thing is how many big names have popped up in this race.

Think of it this way: if you could get the money together, you could put together quite a team in about 2-years.

Most of them will be well past their "use by" date though.

Disco would have no use for Rasmussen. His best hope would ba Astana, and I bet they're not hiring right now.

Evidently the doping testing works better than we thought, or all of these old pros forgot how to do it.

BTW my blood work showed hemocrit at 49.1% I don't do EPO, and I suck really bad. Oh well.

Richard

Reef58:

if that is your hemocrit level, then if anything, at least your baseline is decent enough that through training, you would reaally see progress. Better than sucking and having a level in the 30's, no?

Most of them will be well past their "use by" date though.

Disco would have no use for Rasmussen. His best hope would ba Astana, and I bet they're not hiring right now.

so you'd let a guy who can beat your best guy go to another team :eek:?

ed rader

Wow - the amazing thing is how many big names have popped up in this race.

Think of it this way: if you could get the money together, you could put together quite a team in about 2-years.
Think of all the favorites for the 2006 Tour a couple of months before that Tour and how many of them have been ousted for drugs... Ullrich, Basso, Vino, Mancebo, Mayo, Rasmussen, Flandis, ...

Makes you wonder how many of the other favorites who were not busted simply just got away with it. The possibility that any top contenders are truly clean becomes less and less likely with each revelation of yet another cycling star who apparently could not compete at that level clean.

Think of all the favorites for the 2006 Tour a couple of months before that Tour and how many of them have been ousted for drugs... Ullrich, Basso, Vino, Mancebo, Mayo, Rasmussen, Flandis, ...

Makes you wonder how many of the other favorites who were not busted simply just got away with it. The possibility that any of them were clean becomes less and less likely.


if you are of the belief that "they all dope" there are no surprises but even the most cynical want to believe that someone is clean.

and i did name our new kitten floyd last year :eek:!

ed rader

The only thing that Velonews reported is the the German doping expert has
what he says is evidence about Contador and Operation Puerto.
The article in Velonews is pretty interesting, hints at being very detailed
but I have to question why did the spanish federation and police clear
Contador if they also had this evidence?

Marty

p.s. hell I'm not even clean, pulled my back saturday and got a cortizone shot,
guess I won't be riding the Vuelta this year either.

Yea, but I was hoping EPO would do me good:)

Richard

Reef58:

if that is your hemocrit level, then if anything, at least your baseline is decent enough that through training, you would reaally see progress. Better than sucking and having a level in the 30's, no?

if you are of the belief that "they all dope" there are no surprises but even the most cynical want to believe that someone is clean.

and i did name our new kitten floyd last year :eek:!

ed rader

I am the most cynical on this board, and even I want to beleive they are clean. 1% of me holds out hope, if only because it justified why I spend so much time devoted to watching it.

Bradley Wiggins did say the older riders are the ones he suspects of doping. So far that has worked out. Old and desperate = popped in the test.

Richard

Maybe the testing people should tell the riders they have recently developed the Dopinator 2000. It can find any and all PED's. If they come forth now they will go easy. If not and they test positive lifetime ban. Who knows maybe the bluff will work for a few.

Richard

Maybe the testing people should tell the riders they have recently developed the Dopinator 2000. It can find any and all PED's. If they come forth now they will go easy. If not and they test positive lifetime ban. Who knows maybe the bluff will work for a few.

Richard

We made one of those in Uni, except it involved a gas mask and a huge bong.

Almost certainly there are some clean riders, but it's doubtful that any of them are GT overall contenders.
Does anyone know who was almost certainly clean in the last 10 years? Like riders who were on a team while implicated in a big scandal for instance (Festina) that were repeated reported to have declined participating in doping.

It would be fun cheering for them, even when they finish 50th. Watching the dopers is fun too, but I too like how this is turning into a 'bloodbath' :D:D:D . I don't care if half the ProTour gets banned for doping... I'll still look forward to watching cycling. Perhaps moreso than if nobody was banned.

Some of these older riders, it's almost like they're looking for an excuse to retire early. My god Lance must have known something, he leaves and everyone around him is busted! What timing. (Armstrong... the doper... my favorite rider ever BTW)

Wonder if Spanish authorities covered up Real Madrid and Barca doping programs too...

Evidently the doping testing works better than we thought, or all of these old pros forgot how to do it.

BTW my blood work showed hemocrit at 49.1% I don't do EPO, and I suck really bad. Oh well.

Richard

Me too, my last hematocrit reading was either 48-49%. I was in decent cycling shape at the time.

doper alert....iban mayo

He needs to get his money back.

Does anybody know why he got off the hook for his Giro positive?

Bradley Wiggins did say the older riders are the ones he suspects of doping. So far that has worked out. Old and desperate = popped in the test.

Richard


what the hell does wiggins know? how old is contador?

ed rader

I don't know. I guess not as much as you. I just thought I would throw it out there. Calm down.

Richard

what the hell does wiggins know? how old is contador?

ed rader

what the hell does wiggins know? how old is contador?

ed rader

Well, he is a pro cyclist and is around them all day..

Contador is 24 (hence the white jersey)

Well, he is a pro cyclist and is around them all day..

Contador is 24 (hence the white jersey)

doping has endured many generations of young cyclists. to think that doping is confined to the older generation shows me that wiggins is either a liar or a dumb ass kid :eek:.

ed rader

Me too, my last hematocrit reading was either 48-49%. I was in decent cycling shape at the time.

Huh, I thought I was the only non-doper who wanted to know what his hematocrit is.

Just haven't had a reason for blood work yet, though. And I'm not going in just for curiousity's sake.

what the hell does wiggins know? how old is contador?

ed rader

contador is 24.

Well I wasn't tested just for the heck of it either. The doctor didn't find it funny when I asked if I could get EPO, and HGH. Oh well I tried.

Richard

Huh, I thought I was the only non-doper who wanted to know what his hematocrit is.

Just haven't had a reason for blood work yet, though. And I'm not going in just for curiousity's sake.

contador is 24.

actually i knew that :D!

ed rader

gotcha.

Evidently the doping testing works better than we thought, or all of these old pros forgot how to do it.

Richard

Or the testing lab has started using new "improved" methods that are turning up false positives all over the place. Someone should test Pounds, bet he comes back positive for being an ass.

Heres what that jackass said about Floyd back in January...........

"He was 11 minutes behind or something, and all of a sudden there's this Herculean effort, where he's going up mountains like he's on a goddamn Harley."
-- WADA chief Dick Pound,

steppy

Or the testing lab has started using new "improved" methods that are turning up false positives all over the place.


False positives wouldn't discriminate on the basis of age.

Agreed that Pound would test positive for self-righteous jackass though.

Evidently the doping testing works better than we thought, or all of these old pros forgot how to do it.

BTW my blood work showed hemocrit at 49.1% I don't do EPO, and I suck really bad. Oh well.

Richard

My hematocrit levels before I even had a road bike were in the high 40's; 46, 49, 48. Don't know if I trust their testing; they also had me at dangerously low platelet counts. Further testing showed the platelet count to be in the normal range.

Oh, and I'm slow as a three-legged turtle, too.

False positives wouldn't discriminate on the basis of age.

Agreed that Pound would test positive for self-righteous jackass though.
From what I’ve read regarding testing accuracy and the inclusion of a “false positive” testing population included in the method validation criteria, there is none.
I’m not saying that all the positive tests we have seen lately are wrong I’m just saying that I wouldn’t trust the test methods accuracy for detecting a “false positive”. How would you know? Alternative testing from an independent lab? Where is the testing oversight organization?

On another note if Mayo is guilty he should get a lifetime ban.

From what I’ve read regarding testing accuracy and the inclusion of a “false positive” testing population included in the method validation criteria, there is none.
I’m not saying that all the positive tests we have seen lately are wrong I’m just saying that I wouldn’t trust the test methods accuracy for detecting a “false positive”. How would you know? Alternative testing from an independent lab? Where is the testing oversight organization?

On another note if Mayo is guilty he should get a lifetime ban.


Yeah. I work in a scientific discipline, and from what I understand of the testing methods, they are woefully bankrupt on normal scientific method things like blind controls, broad cross-population testing, and are just generally sloppy. Some of the stuff that came out at the Landis trial was absolutely appalling from a good lab practices standpoint.

I'm not so naive that I believe no one is doping, but the quality control of the tests is often, um... lacking. The fact that L'Equipe knows before the athlete knows (and before the B sample is tested) doesn't lend itself to the perception of a tight ship.

I'm not so naive that I believe no one is doping, but the quality control of the tests is often, um... lacking. The fact that L'Equipe knows before the athlete knows (and before the B sample is tested) doesn't lend itself to the perception of a tight ship.

ASO has a direct relationship with the testing lab and L'Equipe. A lot of people feel at least the testing lab should be independent and certified on a yearly basis. That's why people questions L'Equipe ability to often "break the news" before anyone else and some can point out there's an ethical question if almost everything is under the control of one organization and supposedly confidential results are "leaked" to L'Equipe (to sell more papers=more profit) almost at the same time as when the tests are completed.

If ASO's testing lab gets a black eye from any of the pending and on-going lawsuits, the focus would shift to the ASO has possibly trying to manipulate the outcome of the TdF or approving shoddy practices at its lab that would put into question any or all of the test results - past or present. A slippery slope for the event and the organizers (ASO). However, we don't know the laws in France and it may be perfectly legal and ethical for the testing lab, L'Equipe, and the ASO to be all under the same roof.

In any case, this (doping and the testing lab) has been brewing for years and is about to explode into a bigger story that make take years for cycling and the TdF in particular to recover from...esp if both the athlete(s) and the lab takes major hits in the legal system. Who can the public believe and trust after that?

I'm wondering if Mayo's positive result from the rest-day being a news-flash on the day after the finish means that it is possible for more to come.

I'm wondering if Mayo's positive result from the rest-day being a news-flash on the day after the finish means that it is possible for more to come.

absolutley, it is very possible there is more to come...

Mayo didn't have a very good tour either. After the 2nd place in stage 8, he never even managed to stay in the top 15 group in later climbs... so its a surprise he was cheating, cuz he didn't appear to be trying hard.

Maybe he wasn't cheating, but on the rest day decided to dope back up. He went into the break on stage 16, so he was riding well on that stage.

Richard

Mayo didn't have a very good tour either. After the 2nd place in stage 8, he never even managed to stay in the top 15 group in later climbs... so its a surprise he was cheating, cuz he didn't appear to be trying hard.

Mayo didn't have a very good tour either. After the 2nd place in stage 8, he never even managed to stay in the top 15 group in later climbs... so its a surprise he was cheating, cuz he didn't appear to be trying hard.

I guess those hemoglobin boosters Euskatel had in 2003 aren't applicable anymore.

Maybe he wasn't cheating, but on the rest day decided to dope back up. He went into the break on stage 16, so he was riding well on that stage.

Richard

don't know what you mean by dope back up without cheating...

stage 16, he went with the early flats breakaway, but got dropped early in 2nd to last hill, caught and dropped by yellow group.

Thats not it.

Richard

don't know what you mean by dope back up without cheating...

stage 16, he went with the early flats breakaway, but got dropped early in 2nd to last hill, caught and dropped by yellow group.

if you are of the belief that "they all dope" there are no surprises but even the most cynical want to believe that someone is clean.

and i did name our new kitten floyd last year :eek:!

ed rader

I remember that thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=299570&page=2

Doesn't Floyd (the cat) need Testosterone supplements now with his medical condition?

Maybe the testing people should tell the riders they have recently developed the Dopinator 2000. It can find any and all PED's. If they come forth now they will go easy. If not and they test positive lifetime ban. Who knows maybe the bluff will work for a few.

Richard

We made one of those in Uni, except it involved a gas mask and a huge bong.


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I remember that thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=299570&page=2

Doesn't Floyd (the cat) need Testosterone supplements now with his medical condition?

:D. yep!

ed rader

A bird named Dave says: Hincapie to leave Disco, join T-Mobile and build a classics team. George not happy with Levi, feels he's a big doper that'll ruin Hincapie's business by association.

Mayo didn't have a very good tour either. After the 2nd place in stage 8, he never even managed to stay in the top 15 group in later climbs... so its a surprise he was cheating, cuz he didn't appear to be trying hard.

Let's not forget that 'doping' isn't going to gaurantee you anything...IMO (and I do believe that doping is a rampant problem in the pro peloton) hard work and training (natural genetic variation aside) are still the most important factors in winning races. Thats why Im still a fan and always will be.