View Full Version : Obesity Map
Blue Order
07-30-07, 04:07 PM
Not sure this is strictly a "Living Car Free" topic, but not sure where else to post it. Saw this on CNN:
Obesity Map (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map/)
england version - current data only
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_enl_1160410667/html/1.stm
Bikepacker67
07-30-07, 05:54 PM
I guess bible-thumpin' works up an appetite!
Blue Order
07-30-07, 05:55 PM
:roflmao:
wahoonc
07-30-07, 06:51 PM
I guess bible-thumpin' works up an appetite!
Either that or all them pot luck dinners:D with fried chicken...
Aaron:)
MyBikeGotStolen
07-30-07, 07:03 PM
yet another reason for me to move to Colorado, skinny chicks :D
Then again, how could I ever leave a college town like UF's
kjmillig
07-30-07, 07:05 PM
I didn't know MI or PA were "bible thumpin", fried chicken eatin' states! I thought that was just us suthern hick folk. Look at the map again.
Hey! Once again, I'm in a blue state!
Sadly a similar Canadian map (if one existed) would be pretty much navy blue, with splotches of red, too.
A coworker of mine is from Holland and her family came for a visit, arriving this weekend. They went to various tourist things - a local festival, a local pool and waterslide, etc. - and after being here for a day or two, one of the children turned to my coworker and asked, "How come there are so many fat people here?"
It's becoming "normal" to be obese.
Oh here we are ... a map for Canada: http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-221-XIE/00502/pdf/1226m.pdf
And sure enough, where I used to live in Manitoba, and where I currently live in Alberta are both bright red.
Sadly a similar Canadian map (if one existed) would be pretty much navy blue, with splotches of red, too.
A coworker of mine is from Holland and her family came for a visit, arriving this weekend. They went to various tourist things - a local festival, a local pool and waterslide, etc. - and after being here for a day or two, one of the children turned to my coworker and asked, "How come there are so many fat people here?"
It's becoming "normal" to be obese.
the fattest town in Britain was asked the same thing - the indignant reply was "we're normal" :roflmao:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=boston+fattest+town+uk
Cosmoline
07-30-07, 10:02 PM
Meh. According to the BMI charts I should have been dead years ago.
Note that the england and canada maps are meant to compare a particular region's obesity rate to their country's average obesity rate.
And sure enough, where I used to live in Manitoba, and where I currently live in Alberta are both bright red.
The Canadian statistics seem to show a much lower obesity rate than England, with the USA having a much higher obesity rate than England.
Not sure this is strictly a "Living Car Free" topic, but not sure where else to post it.
In my experience, people mostly consider cars to be the norm for transportation and even if they don't, they usually consider anything but cars or public transit to be too much work for them. I have no doubt that if everybody were traveling under their own power (as in walking/biking) as a major means of transportation, people would be in better health and less likely to be obese.
In my opinion public transit tends to be far better for one's health than car travel, because you usually have to walk a lot more to use public transit. But I'll take a bicycle any day.
Forgive, me, but I'm a bit skeptical. Yes, North Americans are probably too fat. In particular, poor North Americans are too fat. (I wonder why that is?) In looking at the CNN maps from 1995, and then 2004, I was stunned by how much fatter Americans had become in a mere decade. Then I remembered something: The BMI definitions had changed in the interim. You don't actually have to be as fat anymore to be considered obese. And just because you exceed the BMI doesn't necessarily mean you're unhealthy; I'm often passed on my commute home by the same 5'4", 180-lbs woman, and I'm in pretty good shape. (5'11'', 150 lbs). In addition, in the last half-marathon I ran, I got smoked by a guy who was at least 250 lbs, and I finished in 1h 35 min. However, this doesn't change the overall picture. When I go to Kentucky, as I do every year, I see a lot of fat people, and not many of them could run across a parking lot, much less finish a half-marathon. We're getting fatter, and less fit, and the fattiness is beginning at an earlier age. Getting more people out of their cars might be a good start. (Also, if I were a parent, I'd radically ration the video game playing...)
I have no doubt that if everybody were traveling under their own power (as in walking/biking) as a major means of transportation, people would be in better health and less likely to be obese.
.
You would be correct. I'm biking to work every day (since April) and even though my diet hasn't really changed, I'm still losing weight. I also seem to be eating MORE :eek:
I have also been known to do the following: WALK to the mailbox instead of just stopping the car by the curb on my way home (don't drive remember :) ) I also WALK to the corner store (it's a 4-5minute walk a waste to start a car) - these little things add up over time.
Also note that its cheaper to buy crap food than good food.
Good articles here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?ex=1186027200&en=bbe0f6a2c10e3b3c&ei=5070) and here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?ex=1186027200&en=c0876b8900d5084f&ei=5070).
Drewnowski gave himself a hypothetical dollar to spend, using it to purchase as many calories as he possibly could. He discovered that he could buy the most calories per dollar in the middle aisles of the supermarket, among the towering canyons of processed food and soft drink. (In the typical American supermarket, the fresh foods — dairy, meat, fish and produce — line the perimeter walls, while the imperishable packaged goods dominate the center.) Drewnowski found that a dollar could buy 1,200 calories of cookies or potato chips but only 250 calories of carrots. Looking for something to wash down those chips, he discovered that his dollar bought 875 calories of soda but only 170 calories of orange juice.
ModoVincere
07-31-07, 07:07 AM
I didn't know MI or PA were "bible thumpin", fried chicken eatin' states! I thought that was just us suthern hick folk. Look at the map again.
Southern does not correlate directly with hick. That's like saying all NYers are WOPs (wihout papers for those who have not heard the term before. it was a deragatory term aimed primarily at italian immigrants at some point in the past). It also shows a very biased and unopen mind.
wahoonc
07-31-07, 07:27 AM
Also note that its cheaper to buy crap food than good food.
Good articles here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?ex=1186027200&en=bbe0f6a2c10e3b3c&ei=5070) and here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?ex=1186027200&en=c0876b8900d5084f&ei=5070).
Excellent point! and sadly so true. I often wonder why my local grocery store stocks 70 different types of soda or chips, but only carries one type of corn on the cob and 2 types of lettuce (ice berg and romaine) It is what sells. My philosophy has always been; the more processed the worse it is for you.
Aaron:)
(Also, if I were a parent, I'd radically ration the video game playing...)
The problem is, it's not any one thing.
It's:
video games
television
little debbie
lunchables
mcdonalds
mothers who rarely cook
families who can't make time to sit down to a decent meal
cabinets full of food
overweight/out-of-shape parents who couldn't set a good example if they had to...
In general though, I blame the cabinets full of food more than I do the video games. Storing fat is a survival instinct and leaving piles of low-quality food sitting around is just too much temptation for most.
Bikepacker67
07-31-07, 07:56 AM
Also note that its cheaper to buy crap food than good food.
While I'll agree that there's a plethora of cheap junk/fast food choices, I really don't think that rice, oatmeal, local veggies, etc are exorbitantly priced.
They just don't appeal to the Western palate like a greasy/cheesy/salty 99-cent burger.
While I'll agree that there's a plethora of cheap junk/fast food choices, I really don't think that rice, oatmeal, local veggies, etc are exorbitantly priced.
They just don't appeal to the Western palate like a greasy/cheesy/salty 99-cent burger.
I don't think those items are exorbitantly priced either... but speaking from experience I can say that when you shop for local or organic produce and meat in a move away from processed high fructose trans fat mystery ingredient laden food your grocery bill will go up. It boggles the mind that a package of twinkies (with all that cardboard, plastic, printing, shipping, and advertising) can be about the same cost as veggies! Or that canned veggies can be cheaper than fresh!
But I agree that what most people think of food is what they see on TV and in ads. Kentucky Fried McPizza Bell King take out.
While I'll agree that there's a plethora of cheap junk/fast food choices, I really don't think that rice, oatmeal, local veggies, etc are exorbitantly priced.
They just don't appeal to the Western palate like a greasy/cheesy/salty 99-cent burger.
There are quite a few healthy food choices that are also really cheap. Part of the problem is that most of them require a fair bit of time to turn them in to ready-to-eat foods. It's possible to make those foods really tasty, but it often takes a little bit more effort and/or the prepared food doesn't lend itself well to a frozen or dried "instant meal" version.
jimmuter
07-31-07, 08:46 AM
The problem is, it's not any one thing.
It's:
video games
television
little debbie
lunchables
mcdonalds
mothers who rarely cook
families who can't make time to sit down to a decent meal
cabinets full of food
overweight/out-of-shape parents who couldn't set a good example if they had to...
In general though, I blame the cabinets full of food more than I do the video games. Storing fat is a survival instinct and leaving piles of low-quality food sitting around is just too much temptation for most.
Let's face it -- it all stems from women working outside the home. :D
ralph12
07-31-07, 08:51 AM
I didn't know MI or PA were "bible thumpin", fried chicken eatin' states! I thought that was just us suthern hick folk. Look at the map again.
Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh on one side, Philadelphia on the other, and Alabama in between. :eek:
If you really want to know about why our Ameican diet is the way it is, read The Omnivore's Dilemna by Michael Pollan. I've never read a book on any topic that will rock your world view as much as this one.
As for the relationship between physiology, obesity and exercise, read Rethinking Thin by Gina Kolata. A lot of obesity is due to genetic factors that are largely beyond the individual's control. This book taught me to quit worrying about my weight, and focus on the quality of the food I eat and the amount of exercise I get.
As for obese being culturally normal, I think that's somewhat true. When I get my weight down to 200 pounds--still about 25 pounds above my "normal" BMI--people start telling me I'm too skinny and they practically force food on me.
schiavonec
07-31-07, 11:30 AM
yet another reason for me to move to Colorado, skinny chicks :D
Then again, how could I ever leave a college town like UF's
Think of it as attractive and athletic over merely attractive, and there tend to be fewer gold diggers in CO.
As for obese being culturally normal, I think that's somewhat true. When I get my weight down to 200 pounds--still about 25 pounds above my "normal" BMI--people start telling me I'm too skinny and they practically force food on me.
Same here. When I hover round 190-200 they think I look 'great'... but last summer when I was chasing 170 some folks I worked with took me aside and wondered if I had a drug problem...! And they all force food on me - the price I paid to marry a good looking Italian girl that loves to cook - and has a family that does the same!
Those 2 articles I linked to are Pollan's work at the NYT.
I heard an interview with the Rethinking Thin author - made me rethink my weight as well... (although I still think I'm 20 pounds above where I feel my best)
Cosmoline
07-31-07, 11:41 AM
This book taught me to quit worrying about my weight, and focus on the quality of the food I eat and the amount of exercise I get.
That's the conclusion I've come to. Diets never work and BMI tells you almost nothing about the particular health of a particular person. It's a statistical tool, nothing more. You can have a great BMI and be dying of cancer or you can have a BMI over 40 and bike a hundred miles a week.
and there tend to be fewer gold diggers in CO.
Depends on where you go - there may be fewer - but thats because in the towns I've visited everyone already had a trust fund...
kjmillig
07-31-07, 12:58 PM
Southern does not correlate directly with hick..... It also shows a very biased and unopen mind.
Yes, I agree. It was a sarcastic remark aimed directly at the insensitive remarks in posts #3 and #5 on this thread.
ModoVincere
07-31-07, 01:14 PM
Yes, I agree. It was a sarcastic remark aimed directly at the insensitive remarks in posts #3 and #5 on this thread.
ok...glad you explained.
One thing I don't quite understand (well I guess I do understand, I don't agree with is a better way to say it) is the mentality of this forum sometimes. It seems its quite ok to be rude and condescending as long as you are not poking fun at the "car-free lifestyle" or your not poking fun or holes in an eco-argument. It seems that some on this board are not aware that such postings can actually negatively impact the perceptions of others outside this little clique and therefore might prevent others from foregoing automotive usage.
Cassiel240
07-31-07, 01:20 PM
On junk food being cheaper than healthy food:
I really appreciate the calories per dollar method of explaining that - I think it's illustrative. At the same time, however, my experience shows that with some creativity (and drive) you can eat healthily very cheaply. One term in college my roommate and I did an experiment in which we became vegan. We were extremely poor at the time, having misbudgeted the term before and now we were doing all manner of penny-pinching, including walking everywhere and keeping the heat turned off. The veganism was ethical for me, but it was economical for both of us. Milk and meat were the most expensive things on our shopping list, so they were out. Bulk beans and rice, on the other hand, and bulk cereals, were amazingly cheap. So were frozen vegetables. Our diet was not particularly interesting, but plugging it in to fitday.com showed that it was actually still pretty balanced (especially with a multivitamin thrown in). Considering that legumes, grains and produce are what much of the rest of the world lives on, it seems you can do ok eating just those things. Maybe the answer is really more education. We harp on eating "5 a day" but we don't show how to do it affordably. Everyone seems to know how important protein is but I hear few people who aren't vegetarians/vegans talk about how to get those proteins without laying out a ton of money for meat (eggs are a heckuva lot cheaper, if you don't mind animal products, and some people argue they're even higher-quality protein).
On junk food being cheaper than healthy food:
I really appreciate the calories per dollar method of explaining that - I think it's illustrative. At the same time, however, my experience shows that with some creativity (and drive) you can eat healthily very cheaply. One term in college my roommate and I did an experiment in which we became vegan. We were extremely poor at the time, having misbudgeted the term before and now we were doing all manner of penny-pinching, including walking everywhere and keeping the heat turned off. The veganism was ethical for me, but it was economical for both of us. Milk and meat were the most expensive things on our shopping list, so they were out. Bulk beans and rice, on the other hand, and bulk cereals, were amazingly cheap. So were frozen vegetables. Our diet was not particularly interesting, but plugging it in to fitday.com showed that it was actually still pretty balanced (especially with a multivitamin thrown in). Considering that legumes, grains and produce are what much of the rest of the world lives on, it seems you can do ok eating just those things. Maybe the answer is really more education. We harp on eating "5 a day" but we don't show how to do it affordably. Everyone seems to know how important protein is but I hear few people who aren't vegetarians/vegans talk about how to get those proteins without laying out a ton of money for meat (eggs are a heckuva lot cheaper, if you don't mind animal products, and some people argue they're even higher-quality protein).
I think the difference in your approach is that you were driven to seek out ways to do this, and most folks want to buy prepackaged (enter any number of items here) food, experience, fun, social status, etc. etc. The perception is that it is hard to cook, a pain in the arse, messy, and takes up valuable time which you could be doing other things (like what, I ask, as eating is pretty important on the 'staying alive' scale of things).
Forgive, me, but I'm a bit skeptical. Yes, North Americans are probably too fat. In particular, poor North Americans are too fat. (I wonder why that is?) .)
I've noticed that in many poor neighborhoods there are no easily accessible grocery stores. In some neighborhoods the only options within walking distance are convenience stores. Try getting decent food at a convenience store. It's sad as most of the grocery chains have pulled out of low income areas. Wal-Mart won't even open a store in some of them.
Same can be said for many small towns; the only grocery store is a Casey's gas station/convenience store.
Of course this isn't the only reason but it contributes to the problem.
wahoonc
07-31-07, 04:51 PM
Yes, I agree. It was a sarcastic remark aimed directly at the insensitive remarks in posts #3 and #5 on this thread.
Hitting close to home?:rolleyes: FWIW I live in the deep south and have for most of my life. Yes in the rural south, bibles, fried chicken and for that matter anything that can be battered and fried is a way of life. A quick glance at the obesity map strongly indicates that there is some type of issue in the states of the deep south, maybe it is because of the distance between points and people spend too much time in vehicles getting there. Maybe it is because the standard of living is lower in the south as is the standard of education, leading people to eat less healthy.
Aaron:)
Cassiel240
07-31-07, 06:44 PM
I think the difference in your approach is that you were driven to seek out ways to do this, and most folks want to buy prepackaged (enter any number of items here) food, experience, fun, social status, etc. etc. The perception is that it is hard to cook, a pain in the arse, messy, and takes up valuable time which you could be doing other things (like what, I ask, as eating is pretty important on the 'staying alive' scale of things).
Agreed. Interesting, though: living car-free/car-lite is a lifestyle that takes an inverse view of this, in my experience. Most of what I do almost makes me seem to delight in the inversion of status symbols (having no car, hanging my laundry to dry, etc). Additionally, even now that I have a choice, I make nearly everything I eat from scratch (haven't ventured into yogurt-making yet, but I'm sure that will happen eventually, along with beer brewing - woohoo!). It amounts to a delight not in the inversion itself, but in the fact that it feels as if those of us who live in this world (as opposed to the one which I'm generalizing as adhering to traditional status-symbols) share a secret, which is that living this way is so much fun. I see things I'd never see in a car, have learned things I'd never have learned without creating my own garden or making my own food. I've had a surge of creativity since beginning all this that I couldn't have imagined before. Anyway, I guess I am only saying "if they only knew what they were missing..." On so many levels! ;)
mothers who rarely cook I agree that homecook meals are good, but this is a dang sexist thing to say. Why is it the mothers' responsibility to cook? Women work as much as men these days.
Bikepacker67
07-31-07, 07:09 PM
I agree that homecook meals are good, but this is a dang sexist thing to say.
Ya! No Shyt!
I'm a MUCH better cook than any woman who's ever cooked for me!
What was that original comment insinuating anyway? That men are inept in the kitchen?
:p
wahoonc
07-31-07, 07:36 PM
I learned to cook in self defense...my dad's cooking sucked:D (not really but you can eat SOS or Corned Beef Hash only so many times:cry:...) We share cooking duties at our house, we each have our own style and tastes so it makes for a varied fare. When we relocate one of the gotta haves is a decent kitchen with room for 2+ cooks. I do a lot of breads and pasta type dishes. Wife is more prone to meat based dishes and anything with lots of cheese in it.:p
Aaron:)
Blue Order
07-31-07, 07:54 PM
I'm a MUCH better cook than any woman who's ever cooked for me!I was always the cook, in every relationship. Still am, come to think of it.
overthere
07-31-07, 08:06 PM
Geesh, I gotta find one of these 'cooking/cyclist' in my neck of the woods!
Bikepacker67
07-31-07, 08:10 PM
I like to cook everything.
Jerk chicken, eggplant parm, spinach and crabmeat quiche, homemade pizza.. why I whipped up a 20 qt vat of chili this evening (the tomatoes are coming in fast and furious from the garden)
Give me a spatula, and I'm a dangerous man (well... dangerous to waist lines, anyway)
;)
Wogsterca
07-31-07, 09:39 PM
Not sure this is strictly a "Living Car Free" topic, but not sure where else to post it. Saw this on CNN:
Obesity Map (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map/)
One of the problems with this, is it's based on BMI, and BMI has major problems itself. Take 2 men, they are both 5'9" tall and weigh 220lbs. One is built like Homer Simpson, the other is in contention for Mr. Universe. They have an identical BMI, because BMI is a relation between height and weight, not a relation between fat and fit.
Blue Order
07-31-07, 09:57 PM
One of the problems with this, is it's based on BMI, and BMI has major problems itself. Take 2 men, they are both 5'9" tall and weigh 220lbs. One is built like Homer Simpson, the other is in contention for Mr. Universe. They have an identical BMI, because BMI is a relation between height and weight, not a relation between fat and fit.Yeah, I don't really care what I weigh-- it's more about what percentage of that weight is fat.
Bikepacker67
07-31-07, 10:04 PM
Ya wanna know if you're fat?
Get in a swimming pool, do the 'dead man's float' and expel all the air you can from your lungs.
If you sink like a stone, you're not obese, I don't care how much you weigh.
wahoonc
08-01-07, 03:32 AM
Ya wanna know if you're fat?
Get in a swimming pool, do the 'dead man's float' and expel all the air you can from your lungs.
If you sink like a stone, you're not obese, I don't care how much you weigh.
I have no clue what my current BMI is and could care less. To me aerobic condition is more where it is at. Can you walk up a couple flights of stairs without wheezing and getting an elevated heart rate, how about that walk to the mail box? etc,etc. As far as the dead man's float...many years ago, even with a lung full of air I would still slowly sink to the bottom of the pool:D When I was scuba diving I had to actually put air in my vest to maintain a neutral buoyancy and normally did not need a weight belt:eek::p I don't have that problem anymore. Good cooking and old age have taken over:o
Aaron:)
Cosmoline
08-01-07, 01:40 PM
If you sink like a stone, you're not obese,
Yeah, but you're DEAD.
masher97
08-02-07, 04:20 AM
I'm 5'8", 178lbs, so my BMI is 27.1 - according to the government I'm overweight, a few more pounds (198) and i'd hit the obese range according to the BMI calculator. I'm anything but overweight, in fact, I could use a few pounds after biking to work every day for the last month or so.
Not that we don't have an obesity problem in this country. Our lifestyle is more sedentary than it was just 20 yrs ago. All my kids want to do is play PlayStation instead of get outside and ride their bikes around the neighborhood! I've begun forcing them to go on bike rides everyday when I get home from work, and they are actually beginning to enjoy it!
I agree that homecook meals are good, but this is a dang sexist thing to say. Why is it the mothers' responsibility to cook? Women work as much as men these days.
Quit trying to pick a fight. I (the father) cook EVERY meal that gets cooked in my house, so you're barking up the wrong tree.
It's only a sexist comment because you chose to interpret it that way.
Bikepacker67
08-02-07, 07:41 AM
It was a sarcastic remark aimed directly at the insensitive remarks in posts #3 and #5 on this thread.
I think you need to check a mirror.
Your skin seems to be missing.
It's only a sexist comment because you chose to interpret it that way. It's kind of difficult to interpret it any other way. I welcome you to elaborate on a non-sexist interpretation.
I (the father) cook EVERY meal that gets cooked in my house, so you're barking up the wrong tree. What happens in your family is completely irrelevant to your general argument (although it is a little strange that someone like you would talk specifically about cooking mothers).
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