apparently my pedals are broken, they make a god aweful sound when you mash on them. I stopped at the helpful LBS and they informed me that new pedals was what I needed. They tried to push me into platforms made of metal, I asked about clipless and he said that they are fine, and showed me some shoes, but I am not sure I want to spend that much money. I also am not sure I want to ride in special shoes. I ride every morning (or at least 5 mornings a week) and average about 9~12 miles every morning. I ride a entry level LBS quality mountain bike (scott reflex 50) that came stock with plastic pedals. should I just get metal caged pedals? should I get toe clips? clipless?
I have my eye on these, they look like they would be similar to clipless in the motion to enter and exit them, but would still allow me to ride in regular shoes.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000108&subcategory=60001181&brand=&sku=1269&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Platform%20Pedals
Tom Stormcrowe
07-31-07, 02:43 PM
I run metal platforms with clips and straps. This allows me to get most of the advantage of clipless and still wear regular shoes. Either clipless or Clip/Strap have a learning curve though and there's that 0 MPH tipover possible (and if it happens, welcome to the gang!;)).
I'd go with the Metal platforms and toe clip combo myself!
Edit: or the power grips you have linked would work well too!:D okay
apparently my pedals are broken, they make a god aweful sound when you mash on them. I stopped at the helpful LBS and they informed me that new pedals was what I needed. They tried to push me into platforms made of metal, I asked about clipless and he said that they are fine, and showed me some shoes, but I am not sure I want to spend that much money. I also am not sure I want to ride in special shoes. I ride every morning (or at least 5 mornings a week) and average about 9~12 miles every morning. I ride a entry level LBS quality mountain bike (scott reflex 50) that came stock with plastic pedals. should I just get metal caged pedals? should I get toe clips? clipless?
I have my eye on these, they look like they would be similar to clipless in the motion to enter and exit them, but would still allow me to ride in regular shoes.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000108&subcategory=60001181&brand=&sku=1269&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Platform%20Pedals
Halthane
07-31-07, 03:02 PM
and if it happens, welcome to the gang!;)
I would argue that it is when... not if. And also that the risk there is worth the benefit.
Tom Stormcrowe
07-31-07, 03:05 PM
I would argue that it is when... not if. And also that the risk there is worth the benefit.
99.2% probability, but I do know a couple of riders that haven't done the 0mph fall...........yet!http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v319/tankexmortis/Smileys/th_Cat_from_Alicia_in_Wonderland_by_jS.gif
squirtdad
07-31-07, 03:08 PM
I'm a big fan of clipless...way more efficient and IMO safer (sure to cause discusssion :) )
one great option is a combo platform/spd clipless. I use these on my utiliyt/commuter....I can clip if I want or just throw a leg over and ride.
These pedals are made by shimano, performance, nashbar etc.....but right now I think you can get the pedals (campus) and a pair of clip shoes for under $80 at performance.
Tom Stormcrowe
07-31-07, 03:11 PM
Main reason I use cage and strap is I'm just used to it and I haven't found a clipless system with enough float. I had clip and strap on my bike in the 70's and 80's, way back when and it just feels natural to me.....
astropuppy
07-31-07, 03:22 PM
What is float? I spent the 70's and 80's in clips too. I seriously do not know what "Float" is. After getting back on a bike after 16 years; An old time buddy convinced me to go clipless. There's no way I'd go back to clips; Unless it was for commuting.
Tom Stormcrowe
07-31-07, 03:25 PM
Lateral motion available in the cleat locks is float. Too rigid a lock, like the early clipless can cause serious knee issues. Watch the motion range a knee goes through in the pedaling motion, they go through a figure 8 motion. Too little float restricts that free figure 8 and stresses the ligaments.
I have knee issues already and every pair of clipless I've used causes knee pain, so I stay "Old School" for just that reason.
Slothman
07-31-07, 03:26 PM
Oooh those power grips look cool. I think I'd like those over toe clips. I do clipless, myself. Easy enough for on & off. I spent ~$70 for the shoes and my spd pedals came with the bike, so it wasn't that much of a commitment.
And, even though this will most likely jinx myself, I have NOT yet had a 0MPH fall. Yet. I fully expect to, but so far so good!
BadBeat
07-31-07, 04:07 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
Tom Stormcrowe
07-31-07, 04:09 PM
They aren't bad, just embarrassing. Just tuck the arm, protect the head and it's generally a pretty slow fall relatively speaking.
markhr
07-31-07, 04:55 PM
everything Tom said bar one - if you get either Bebop, Speedplay or Time pedals they have between 20degrees and 10 degrees lateral float. Much easier on the knees and, with the exception of powergrips, the safest way to cycle. Yes, the clipless 0kph fall is embarassing but, with practice, you should be able to limit that to once or twice.
My personal preference is Time pedals but speedplay and Bebop both get excellent reviews. With the shoes the stiffer the sole the better and mountian type shoes allow you to walk safely off the bike. Sidi make a set with replaceable rubber soles (SRS) so you don't have to throw good shoes away before they've completely broken.
The only thing I really dislike about the platform/cage combo (at least on my bike) is the clips drag on the pavement on initial takeoff while I fumble with trying to put the foot in. Combination of low BB clearance and long cranks I guess. :(
fbagatelleblack
07-31-07, 06:00 PM
Recently, I was riding to work in my dress shoes, and the toe clips were scuffing the shoes, so I took Grant P's advice and tried going with platform pedals with no clips and straps. I dropped $20 on a pair of these:
Since they are really BMX pedals, they oughta be really durable, and they sure are light. Generally speaking, I really like them, but when I get my spin on, I find my off-side foot lifting off the pedal. I guess I am just too used to clipless or clips and straps.
If I had it to do over again, I probably would have bought a pair of these:
I think the PowerGrips would have given me enough connection to the pedals, without scuffing up the good shoes! Can anybody confirm or deny that theory?
- FBB
solveg
07-31-07, 06:01 PM
I like my platforms. At this point, I don't see any reason to change. Maybe when I do my first century, I check it out.
Or maybe if I find a pair of shoes cheap enough, I'll throw pedals I have stashed on and see what the hubub is all about.
solveg
07-31-07, 06:02 PM
I've got the second pair you show. One of them, I think, is loose. I can "feel" something in it. I have to figure out how to tighten it.
lil brown bat
07-31-07, 06:19 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing.
They're neither bad nor inevitable, but for some reason a lot of people are terrified at the possibility.
barba
07-31-07, 06:29 PM
I have never fallen using clipless pedals. I actually agree with the poster above that clipless pedals feel safer to me than clips and straps (which have to be fairly tight to approximate the feel you get from a clipless system). The release is just more predictable in my experience. I also hate the feel of straps across my feet. It actually starts to feel like I am loosing blood flow on longer rides.
That said, ride what you feel comfortable with. The powergrips you linked to are certainly at an attractive price. Give them a try. If you feel that you would like a more solid link to the pedals after you ride them for a while, consider buying some entry level shoes and some sensible clipless pedals. Once you get used to any kind of retaining system plain old pedals feel like driving a car without a seatbelt; possible but vaguely weird and uncomfortable.
Terrierman
07-31-07, 09:17 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
I've only fallen twice and only one of those was fatal.
Actually nothing happened either time, to me or the bike. I suppose you could hit your head on a curb or rock or something and actually get hurt, but just tipping over in slow motion onto either the grass or even pavement is no big deal. And I seem to remember my feet came out on the way down, but too late to do anything helpful, other than spring back up hoping (in vain) that no one had noticed.
v1k1ng1001
07-31-07, 09:20 PM
power grips are suicidal. and they're $45??? it's a long story, but trust me. they're primarily for stationary fitness bikes.
you will really like clipless pedals if you buy decent shoes
but if you don't want to take the plunge, then I suggest a good metal platform pedal with clips and straps
markhr
07-31-07, 09:43 PM
power grips are suicidal. and they're $45??? it's a long story, but trust me. they're primarily for stationary fitness bikes....
and you know this how, please?
UtRacerDad
07-31-07, 10:10 PM
so I have been riding clipless for nearly 10 years now. I thought I would never be able to ride with out them. But recently due to a knee injury I haven't been able to commute to work using my clipless pedals, I have had to ride with platforms. It has been an interesting month, a couple of things that I have noticed are:
- clipless give you a full range of pedal, you get more of a circular motion that provides much more power. riding with clipless I seem a lot less tired when I get to work.
- it's great to be able to ride with normal shoes on my pedals, you don't get any power on the upstroke but there are no worries about getting your feet off of the pedals.
I think it is really all up to your personal preference, starting monday I will be back on my road bike using clipless, but I'm thinking that on my commuter I will leave my rodeo pedals (platform on one side / clipless on the other) so that I can ride either way. I still am sold on the value of clipless pedals, and yes the 0mph fall will likely happen, but then you wouldn't have anything to think about 10 years down the road :).
remember YMMV.
v1k1ng1001
07-31-07, 10:41 PM
and you know this how, please?
They're tough to get out of when they're tight because they over the side of your foot rather than staying situated on your toe. When they're at all loose, they're worthless.
My old gym had them on stationary bikes and I hated them.
solveg
07-31-07, 10:46 PM
They're neither bad nor inevitable, but for some reason a lot of people are terrified at the possibility.
I did it once --IN CLIPS-- when I was stalling, waiting for a car to drive pass and it stopped to talk to me. :o
I got scraped. I got a boo-boo. I lived.
It would be bad in city traffic, though, because cars cut by you closely sometimes and you can't guarantee you're going to fall on the "safe side".
markhr
08-01-07, 01:37 AM
They're tough to get out of when they're tight because they over the side of your foot rather than staying situated on your toe. When they're at all loose, they're worthless.
My old gym had them on stationary bikes and I hated them.
Your old gym has actual Powergrips and bicycle pedals or do you mean the gym has those cheap plastic platforms with the wide rubber strap?
If it's the latter then, yes, they are next to useless. I strongly recommend actually trying powergrips as the gym's setup is no indication of how well powergrips work.
Powergrips don't work as well as clipless pedals but for what they are they're stable, strong, easy to get into and out of and don't cause as many problems or safety issues as toe clips and straps.
v1k1ng1001
08-01-07, 04:07 AM
Your old gym has actual Powergrips and bicycle pedals or do you mean the gym has those cheap plastic platforms with the wide rubber strap?
If it's the latter then, yes, they are next to useless. I strongly recommend actually trying powergrips as the gym's setup is no indication of how well powergrips work.
Powergrips don't work as well as clipless pedals but for what they are they're stable, strong, easy to get into and out of and don't cause as many problems or safety issues as toe clips and straps.
Oh, I guess the latter is what I'm thinking of. What makes the former so much better? Seems like the same thing.
dahoss2002
08-01-07, 04:57 AM
It's to each his own.. I went back to straight platforms because I dont race and mainly ride for fun and dont like walking around in "Cleated shoes"... I like wearing my regular shoes. If u dont want platforms, definitely go clipless or spd, the old time toe clips and straps arent nearly as good as clipless..
Woodlark
08-01-07, 05:06 AM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
I have had three 0 mph falls. On one I merely bumped my knee, no big deal. On both of the other two (which I believe occurred because I leaned away from the unclipped foot) I hit the left rear of my head. One of those falls was bad enough (concrete path) that I cracked my helmet and had to go to the E.R. for a Cat Scan. That said, from what I have read on this and other forums, my experience was atypical; most 0 mph falls cause no injury except to pride.
I have not given up on clipless pedals, but now I unclip BOTH feet before I stop.;)
MKS-GR9 pedals on my new Surly Long Haul Trucker, along with the matching MKS size LL clips. I find them to be very natural to use, and I don't even think about getting my foot out - when I want to put a foot down, it just comes out with no effort or special motions. Also, if you notice that little trapezoidal tab sticking out of the back of the pedal, that is used to flip the pedal over to get the clip on top so as to be able to insert the foot. I can pop my foot in sometimes without even glancing at the pedal.
According to Harris Cyclery's e-commerce site, these are the last pedals made specifically to accept clips.
I prefer the convenience of riding in regular shoes - usually sneakers, for the most part. Also, I have size 14 feet and find it hard to find clipless cycling shoes in a size that fits that are affordable.
ralph12
08-01-07, 10:13 AM
I definitely would get some kind of foot retention. I got toe clips about six weeks ago and pedaling is so much easier on the legs now, plus I can stand up to pedal on long ascents. It is much more efficient than the old plastic, double-sided pedals my bike came with that had no clips.
A lot of people like Powergrips too. I haven't tried them, but from what I've read most people find they're even better than toe clips. And of course almost everybody loves clipless--Maybe you could get a set of pedals that's clipless on one side, and clip free on the other? That way you could ride in any shoes.
ralph12
08-01-07, 10:16 AM
99.2% probability, but I do know a couple of riders that haven't done the 0mph fall...........yet!http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v319/tankexmortis/Smileys/th_Cat_from_Alicia_in_Wonderland_by_jS.gif
So far I've managed to avoid that; at least because of the toe clips. I have had a 0 mph fall from getting my pant leg caught on my bottle cage before though...that thing has gotten so warped I probably should get rid of it. :rolleyes:
solveg
08-01-07, 10:28 AM
Pant leg! Well, these guys will have something to say about that!
fbagatelleblack
08-01-07, 11:13 AM
I have size 14 feet and find it hard to find clipless cycling shoes in a size that fits that are affordable.
Lake makes some nice, reasonably-priced, SPD compatible shoes up to European size 50, and you can get them in wide sizes as well. Nashbar.com sells them.
Yers,
FBB
(Foot size 15/50)
DocMan
08-01-07, 02:32 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls?
First post...w00t. :) Long time lurker.
Had to comment on this. I've had several 0mph falls on my speedplays. They've all been pretty much the same. Stop...clip out right foot...lean to left...frantically try to clip out left foot...fall over...DOH!
The last fall was in front of the Beer tent at a local festival when I stopped to see some friends (Yes, it was very funny). Fell onto blacktop and broke the radial head on my left arm and sprained the wrist pretty bad (common break due to falling on an outstretched arm). 4 weeks off the bike, but no surgery required. Took several weeks after getting back on the bike for me to get my confidence back due to significant residual pain. I still have some stiffness and pain after 8 weeks.
I still use the clips and will continue to do so. I am much more aware of clipping out quickly. ;)
nerobro
08-01-07, 05:05 PM
"MKS-GR9 pedals " Those are exactly the pedal I just bought for my road bike. I kinda like them. My only issue is that I have size 10 feet and with toe clips the straps never seem to be held open enough.
I like them nonetheless. :-)
kaiserb
08-01-07, 08:59 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
Feet remain attached and you fall over. I can tell you from experience if you stick your hand out to break the fall you will hurt your wrist...
Tom Stormcrowe
08-01-07, 09:02 PM
Feet remain attached and you fall over. I can tell you from experience if you stick your hand out to break the fall you will hurt your wrist...
Which is why I suggested tucking the arm and protecting the head!
MKS-GR9 pedals on my new Surly Long Haul Trucker, along with the matching MKS size LL clips. I find them to be very natural to use, and I don't even think about getting my foot out - when I want to put a foot down, it just comes out with no effort or special motions. Also, if you notice that little trapezoidal tab sticking out of the back of the pedal, that is used to flip the pedal over to get the clip on top so as to be able to insert the foot. I can pop my foot in sometimes without even glancing at the pedal.
According to Harris Cyclery's e-commerce site, these are the last pedals made specifically to accept clips.
I prefer the convenience of riding in regular shoes - usually sneakers, for the most part. Also, I have size 14 feet and find it hard to find clipless cycling shoes in a size that fits that are affordable.
Those MKS GR-9 pedals work great with Power Grips too!
piper_chuck
08-02-07, 08:04 AM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
I've had exactly one. It wasn't even when I was first on clipless, it was several months later. The worst part is I was on one of my regular group rides, so all my buddies were there to laugh. We got to a stop sign at the top of a hill. I came to a stop and just forgot to unclip. Over I went, with both feet still firmly attached to the pedals. The largest injury was to my pride. I think I might have had a minor scrape, but that was about it.
A couple other people commented on the relative ease of getting out of clips versus clipless. I'll also say that it's way easier to get out of clipless pedals. I have memories of minor panic attacks trying to extract a foot from an uncooperative toe clip. Sure, leaving the straps loose will make it easier to get out, but then your feet aren't well connected to the pedals.
I've been using SPD pedals and will probably continue to do so. You can get some shoes that are not obviously bike shoes. And speaking of shoes, IMO, getting a pair of cycling shoes, rather than street shoes, is as, or even more important than a pedal change. The stiff sole on the cycling shoe makes pedaling much more efficient.
clearwaterms
08-02-07, 11:30 AM
well I ordered the powergrips, i will report when they come in to see what everybody thinks of them.
Kotts
08-02-07, 01:02 PM
How bad are these clipless 0 mph falls? It seems most experienced clipless users think they are inevitable but no big thing. On pavement, I envision myself possibly banging or breaking my arm, shoulder, collar bone, knee, or ankle. Would some experience clipless user please describe what actually happens in a 0 mph fall and what types of injuries are most likely. Do your feet normally remain attached to the clips or do they break free?
Basically, if you get a foot free, it isn't a fall. :D
Teh big trict ot not getting hurt is: DON'T CATCH YOURSELF! Most people will put an arm out so that the palm of the hand hits first. That spells broken bones (the hand/wrist/arm/shoulder/collarbone aren't built for that).
I'm going to try to explain a fall that I learned about 30 years ago in Akkido training that has served me well:
As you feel youself start to go over, cant your hip in that direction. The goal here is to have the whole side of your thigh, from hip to knee, make contact at the same time.
Tuck your head away from the impact, cant your shoulders and turn your upper body away from the impact, and hold your arms AWAY from the impact, or cross them on your chest. (Example; If falling left, turn upper body right, left arm across chest pointing right, right arm out to side.)
As the thigh makes contact, let your upper body "roll" into the ground. Keep you head tucked, and you'll rock up onto your shoulderblades.
If you do this right, your bike may swing up into the air a little as you make like the bottom of a rocking chair, but you'll get up without a bruise.
grizz
08-13-07, 09:16 AM
had 2 falls in the space of about 30 feet ..... unfortunately i didn't realise that the free-hub was wrecked; there's nothing quite like the feeling of putting down the power with your pedals turning and your bike going nowhere... never could bring myself to wear clips on that bike after that although that was probably more to do with my cheap bike than any risk of long term injury.... i went back to my clips after upgrading my bike but truth be told, if your riding involves alot of stop/start stuff, e.g traffic/pedestrians/traffic lights i'm not sure that the benefits of clips are that great
Wogsterca
08-13-07, 06:58 PM
had 2 falls in the space of about 30 feet ..... unfortunately i didn't realise that the free-hub was wrecked; there's nothing quite like the feeling of putting down the power with your pedals turning and your bike going nowhere... never could bring myself to wear clips on that bike after that although that was probably more to do with my cheap bike than any risk of long term injury.... i went back to my clips after upgrading my bike but truth be told, if your riding involves alot of stop/start stuff, e.g traffic/pedestrians/traffic lights i'm not sure that the benefits of clips are that great
In stop and go traffic, clips are a major PITA, I am not convinced that clipless are any better in those conditions:rolleyes:
lil brown bat
08-13-07, 07:40 PM
In stop and go traffic, clips are a major PITA, I am not convinced that clipless are any better in those conditions:rolleyes:
Mileage varies. I commute in Boston, use clipless, wouldn't have it any other way.
pgoat
05-27-08, 08:36 AM
after 10 years commuting in manhattan I am still on big BMX platforms...too chicken to use clipless in traffic (I have them on my racing bike for the weekend)
Spartan112
05-27-08, 09:09 AM
I was apprehensive about going clipless but having made the switch there is no way I will ever go back. I went with a Look style pedal called Easy Keo. I have yet to fall (but who knows). I got used to them by sitting on the trainer and clipping in and out. Others have suggested holding yourself up in a door jam.
bdinger
05-27-08, 10:49 AM
I'm now sold on going clipless after using old school toe clips for a week. I've "0 mph" fallen twice with them, so I figure I'm used to that part already. After walking around in some cycling-specific shoes, I can already see the benefit of very rigid soles for cycling.
Now I just need to find the moolah to do it.. hopefully before my feet go into full-on revolutionary mode for my narrow-pedal abuse :P
idig
05-27-08, 11:05 AM
I've been clipless for years. I have some fairly standard Shimano SPD pedals on my LHT, and I wear Lake SPD sandals. The 0 mph fall is much more likely if you ride offroad than on. And though it only takes a second or so in actual time, in your mind it will take about 15 seconds. I've fallen numerous times over the years, usually offroad and after long periods of not riding. I've never had anything more than a bruised ego.