I am already carfree in a tough city to be carfree (Pensacola), but my gal friend loves to ride with me and to work. Her and I talk alot about the plunge and becoming carfree. She went to Portland the other week, and came back saying "I hate my car. Everyone in Portland rides bikes, and I am so ready to divorce my vehicle. Help me find a bike so I can get rid of my car forever."
So I am wondering, what kind of things do females face as some of the harder things to overcome when living carfree? like with skirts, and men harrasing them? She wants a good bike with gears, step-through or slanted TT, comfortability, and utility options. Also one of the things she is determined to do is somehow carry her surfboard 6miles to the beach on a bike. Does anyone have any ideas for this?
I found some sweet bikes from Biria.com, but I have no way of getting one all the way down to Pensacola, FL. There are only 3 bike shops in town, one is a Trek retailer, the other has Felts, schwinns, and some other brands.
And lastly a personal question for my reference as a carfree lifer. I ride a fixed gear everywhere, so I have no problem with traffic, but if I ride my bigger utility bike( a GT with rack and panniers) I have trouble b/c we have no bike lanes here, and rarely large comfortable shoulders either. How or where do you ride if you have a bike with wider handlebars or a trailer behind you when there are no bike lanes, shoulders, and usually no sidewalks as well??
Thor29
07-31-07, 08:49 PM
The best way to carry a surfboard is the Xtracycle (www.xtracycle.com). Xtracycles are also good for carrying lots of other things and will easily carry four bags of groceries.
East Hill
08-01-07, 01:01 AM
I don't understand the questions you've asked. If she's currently riding with you, why would things magically change? What would be wrong with the bike she's using now? Why would you expect men to harass her more (assuming that they harass her now) simply because she's car-free?
For carrying her surfboard, a trailer would work--as Thor29 said, Xtracycle.
East Hill
bragi
08-01-07, 01:21 AM
What is the physical layout of Pensacola? I imagine the main roads are out of the question, Florida being what it is; are there a lot of side streets? Any decent bike paths that go where people actually need to go? I ride a hybrid and use panniers pretty much all the time (no stifled laughter, please), and the width of my rig has never been an issue; I can pass between buses downtown no problem. Panniers add a bit of width, but not enough to make any difference. What might make a difference for your girlfriend, though, is the speed of auto traffic. If you're traveling on a fairly busy road where the cars are going 25 or 30 mph, it's not so bad; if you're on a busy road where the cars are going 45-50 mph, it's sort of terrifying, especially if you live in a town where drivers aren't used to dealing with bicycles. Side streets are a girl's best friend.
As far as the bike shop: Pensacola must suck for bike purchases. Treks aren't bad, at least that's what I've been told, but if you don't want a Trek, maybe you should go to a nearby city that has a decent bike shop... (Maybe you have a friend with a pickup, if that's the only way to get it done, since it seems you're pretty much totally carfree yourself.)
cerewa
08-01-07, 06:31 AM
I have trouble b/c we have no bike lanes here, and rarely large comfortable shoulders either. How or where do you ride if you have a bike with wider handlebars or a trailer behind you when there are no bike lanes, shoulders, and usually no sidewalks as well??
I have a narrow bike (and I'm a narrow person) but I prefer to ride in the middle of the lane unless there's enough room for me to ride off to the side without being passed at less than a few feet of distance by passing cars. Riding on roads where people like to pass while going 50mph, it becomes even more helpful to force cars to move to another lane while passing. I wear a mesh safety vest, which I hope signals to motorists that I'm not riding in the middle of the lane because I don't care about my safety (which will make them want to honk at you) but quite the opposite. Many motorists seem to be able to grasp the concept that if there's no room to share the lane safely, a cyclist may as well ride where it's dead obvious he doesn't want to share the lane unsafely.
Panniers add a bit of width,
On a bike with wide handlebars, typical panniers won't add any width.
JeffS
08-01-07, 09:08 AM
What is the physical layout of Pensacola? I imagine the main roads are out of the question, Florida being what it is [snip]
If you're traveling on a fairly busy road where the cars are going 25 or 30 mph, it's not so bad; if you're on a busy road where the cars are going 45-50 mph, it's sort of terrifying, especially if you live in a town where drivers aren't used to dealing with bicycles. Side streets are a girl's best friend.
I cringe when I hear this, especially from cyclists.
If I were forced to ride where cars were going 25, I couldn't leave my neighborhood. Heck, I probably couldn't leave my little street. Someone has to be the one to get the drivers used to seeing bicycles. I'll gladly be that person in my town, because if I'm riding to get to a destination, I'm on a major arterial.
Roody
08-01-07, 02:09 PM
What might make a difference for your girlfriend, though, is the speed of auto traffic. If you're traveling on a fairly busy road where the cars are going 25 or 30 mph, it's not so bad; if you're on a busy road where the cars are going 45-50 mph, it's sort of terrifying, especially if you live in a town where drivers aren't used to dealing with bicycles. Side streets are a girl's best friend.
I don't see why traffic speed would be different for a female than a male, but I'm pretty sure you're not sexist, so that probably isn't what you mean. High speed streets can be an obstacle to any person of any gender, if they don't know how to handle them. You can try to avoid arterials, but in some cities this just won't work well. Most utility or transportational cyclists probably have to learn how to handle themselves in traffic sooner or later. LAB offers courses and so do other organizations. There are plenty of books and web sites that help too:
Effective Cycling by John Forester (a BF member)
The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst (also a BF member)
Bicycle Safe--How Not to Get Hit By Cars (http://bicyclesafe.com/) (a good web site that covers the basics of traffic cycling)
These are good starting points, especially the last one since it's just a click away! :)
bragi
08-01-07, 03:37 PM
I don't see why traffic speed would be different for a female than a male, but I'm pretty sure you're not sexist, so that probably isn't what you mean. High speed streets can be an obstacle to any person of any gender, if they don't know how to handle them. You can try to avoid arterials, but in some cities this just won't work well. Most utility or transportational cyclists probably have to learn how to handle themselves in traffic sooner or later. LAB offers courses and so do other organizations. There are plenty of books and web sites that help too:
Effective Cycling by John Forester (a BF member)
The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst (also a BF member)
Bicycle Safe--How Not to Get Hit By Cars (http://bicyclesafe.com/) (a good web site that covers the basics of traffic cycling)
These are good starting points, especially the last one since it's just a click away! :)
I didn't mean to imply that girls can't handle heavier traffic, nor was I saying that I can't handle heavy traffic; like almost everyone else, I pretty much have to use arterials every day (though if I can travel on a side street going the same way, I'll do it, because it's a lot more pleasant). I was just trying to say that, for a beginner, regardless of gender, heavy car traffic going at speeds high enough to ram your liver into your rib cage might be scary at first.
cerewa
08-01-07, 03:53 PM
Every time I ride to work, I'm passed by large numbers of cars going ~50mph on a major street. It's not a serious problem for me, but if it's just as easy to ride a lower-speed, parallel street or a deserted bike path, I'd just as soon avoid the speeding cars.
billew
08-01-07, 10:11 PM
As far as the surf board goes, the best thing is a surf board rack. It goes on on like a bike rack. Usually found at surf shops as opposed to a bike shop. Good luck.
Michel Gagnon
08-01-07, 10:11 PM
And lastly a personal question for my reference as a carfree lifer. I ride a fixed gear everywhere, so I have no problem with traffic, but if I ride my bigger utility bike( a GT with rack and panniers) I have trouble b/c we have no bike lanes here, and rarely large comfortable shoulders either. How or where do you ride if you have a bike with wider handlebars or a trailer behind you when there are no bike lanes, shoulders, and usually no sidewalks as well??
I've ridden the single + trailercycle + 2-children trailer, and the tandem + trailercycle + 2-wheel cargo trailer on all sorts of roads and streets, and quite frankly, the biggest problem is... bike (or multi-user) paths.
If you check carefully your "narrow" bike, you'll notice that you already need about 15-20 inches to clear your legs and 28-30 inches minimum to clear your shoulders and elbows. So a narrow trailer like the Nomad is a tad narrower than you, and a wide one or a 2-children trailer is slightly wider. That being said, you'll have to be a bit more "conservative" when cycling:
– you can't zigzag between cars (even when it would not be impolite or unsafe to do);
– in stop and go traffic, you'll be slower because you can't stop and won't start as quickly;
– you can't swerve around potholes.
As for your wife cycling:
– She probably already knows that some types of skirts are out unless she wants to give a show, but many others can be attached with a clothes pin, for example.
– Riding past midnight in some neighbourhoods might be hazardous, but so is walking to your car in a dark parking lot.
– Some tasks might be difficult: ex.: lifting the bike in her hands to climb to the second floor.
jakbikesdc
08-02-07, 12:42 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I actually chuckled alot, due to the fact that she isn't my girlfriend (I am interested though), or wife. But anyways.
Right now she's riding a beach crusier bike that she found at a thrift store. Most of the bolts are stripped, so it's gunna be her leisure bike.
Pensacola. Well, it sucks. I am one of a tight community of bike riders. From what I know now, only 8-10 of us ride bikes exclusively for transportation. Pensacola has been called "redneck riviera" for plenty of reasons. Just tonight I was run off the white stripe on the side of the road by a trucker who later on tried to cut a quick right to either hit me or freak me out.
but luckily my lady friend lives basically downtown, so she doesn't have to deal with alot of the major roads.
The major questions that I was trying to get answer for where: What bike suggestions should I give her? She's an impulse buyer and doesn't like to shop around. So whatever someone tries to sell her, she'll prolly end up buying. She wants a bike with a sloping TT, which cuts out pretty much all road bikes. I told her she'd prolly be most interested in a hybrid, since she wants gears. Any females here that are very happy with their hybrids??? or wish you had something else?
I would try to teach her proper traffic riding, but I know that I would probably lose her to the sidewalk. Or start weaving through the traffic gaps like I usually do. We don't have bike trails, no bike lanes either. Pensacola has a hard enough time trying to keep it's buses funded and running, much less even considering cyclists who might want to ride their bikes past the neighbor's house.
Pensacola will piss off even the best of riders. That's just the type of people we deal with down here. They expect you to drive a truck or suv here, they will even say it.
bragi
08-02-07, 02:26 AM
I'm not a girl, but I do ride a hybrid, and I find it to be the perfect utility bike. It's geared a lot like a mountain bike, so it's not nearly as fast as a road bike, but the street tires and lack of shocks make it a much better choice for city riding than a mountain bike. It's practical, it's durable, and, since it's a hybrid, no one will steal it.
About Pensacola: Is it built on a grid pattern, like a traditional city? In older towns, the grid pattern is ideal for riding a bike, because there's always a side street. Or is it infested with cul de sacs and dead ends, so you end up riding on busy 50 mph arterials, armed with only a water bottle and a samurai frame of mind?
(I'm sorry you had to deal with the psycho guy in a truck. You're probably a lot tougher that that lard-ass, if that's any consolation.)
Bikepacker67
08-02-07, 07:56 AM
Of course the average woman is more wary of riding in traffic than the average man.
They have more common sense.
:)
East Hill
08-02-07, 07:59 AM
What bike suggestions should I give her? She's an impulse buyer and doesn't like to shop around. So whatever someone tries to sell her, she'll prolly end up buying. She wants a bike with a sloping TT, which cuts out pretty much all road bikes. I told her she'd prolly be most interested in a hybrid, since she wants gears. Any females here that are very happy with their hybrids??? or wish you had something else?
Something like this? I ride mixtes in skirts much of the time. Try looking at the local CL.
East Hill
chephy
08-02-07, 08:44 AM
So I am wondering, what kind of things do females face as some of the harder things to overcome when living carfree? Same things as guys, really. My main problem is *****hole drivers; men encounter just as many of those (maybe more since drivers, I think, are more likely to be aggressive with a male rider).
like with skirts, What about skirts? If you want to ride in a skirt, get a step-through frame.
and men harrasing them? Never been harrased on my bike because of my gender. Not once. It's mostly the articulate disputes regarding the fine points of cyclists' lane position. :rolleyes:
She wants a good bike with gears, step-through or slanted TT, comfortability, and utility options. Also one of the things she is determined to do is somehow carry her surfboard 6miles to the beach on a bike. Does anyone have any ideas for this? Xtracycle or trailer.
gwd
08-02-07, 09:13 AM
Wow. Pensacola. Do you guys ride your surfboards across that long causeway out to the beach? Do they charge a toll for bikes? When I lived on the east coast I had to just blast through the toll booths, the toll collectors tried to prevent bikes from going across the bridge at all. I was down there over New Years and didn't see much bike activity except some right at the beach. You guys are at the vanguard. Good luck.
katmu
08-02-07, 10:21 AM
I am a girl (ok maybe a little old to be a girl), and I would recommend a Breezer for the purposes you have mentioned. I feel safe with the hub generated lights, have my grocery bag panniers attached to the rack, and overall think it's a good bike for people who ride for transportation.
jakbikesdc
08-02-07, 11:25 AM
Pensacola has a small grid for its city, but it's broken up by the main highway and two bayous on the west and east side.
She lives in East Hill. ( I thought for a second that East hill might have been from here, but to no avail).
No one has a rack to carry surfboards on their bikes around here, so she'd be the first. But we usually just fly the through the sidewalk that goes around the toll booth. And you're right, there isn't much bike activity, unless your cruisin' the beach. Thats where the majority of the sales are generated at the bike shops, aside from military people who like to buy expensive road bikes and rarely ride them.
Our Craigslist only ever has a bunch of walmart bikes on it. Or beach cruisers. Rarely is there a decent bike on there. I brought my bikes down from DC when I started school here.
With harassment, she has this hippy surfer look and persona to her. So she gets dumb questions about the surf or beach. But rednecks down here, love to stick their heads out the window and holler at wimen.
Elkhound
08-02-07, 03:26 PM
Why would you expect men to harass her more (assuming that they harass her now) simply because she's car-free?
East Hill
If she became car-free she'd be more often riding alone, at night, in dicy neighborhoods, etc. than she is now. Safety is a concern.
As for the 'where to ride', claim your lane. By law you have as much right to use the street as a car. Ride about where if you were a car the right front wheel would be.
Elkhound
08-02-07, 03:28 PM
As far as the bike shop: Pensacola must suck for bike purchases. Treks aren't bad, at least that's what I've been told, but if you don't want a Trek, maybe you should go to a nearby city that has a decent bike shop... (Maybe you have a friend with a pickup, if that's the only way to get it done, since it seems you're pretty much totally carfree yourself.)
Our LBS is a Trek dealership, but they are willing to do a special order from another company if you want. Is your Trek shop exclusive? If not, do your research, print out the websites, and bring the printouts into the shop.
Cosmoline
08-02-07, 04:02 PM
all the way down to Pensacola, FL.
The main importer for a bunch of European bicycles is in St. Augustine.
http://www.dutchbikes.us/
gerv
08-02-07, 07:03 PM
If she became car-free she'd be more often riding alone, at night, in dicy neighborhoods, etc. than she is now. Safety is a concern.
So is traveling by car inherently safer at night? For my part, if the neighborhoods were that dicey, I wouldn't be traveling through them in anything less than a Bradley tank. (I was going to say a Hummer, but realize they aren't armor-plated...)
m5nardi
08-02-07, 10:40 PM
Also one of the things she is determined to do is somehow carry her surfboard 6miles to the beach on a bike. Does anyone have any ideas for this?
Wike makes a golf trailer that looks like it would work really well for that as well as a light duty trailer. There's also the Mule, which requires the surfboard to make a complete trailer, but is a neat idea.
That Mule carrier is perfect! thanks for the link.
I would love to get a dutchbike myself, but they're wicked expensive.
Elkhound
08-03-07, 09:04 AM
So is traveling by car inherently safer at night?
From some things. Although they can get to you even if your doors are locked, it takes some doing, and you are more likely to be able to floor the accellerator and get away than on a bike. At least that is the perception.
discosaurus
08-03-07, 04:25 PM
I'm a girl and I ride a hybrid. I really like my Trek 7.2 FX. I ride every day, no epic distances, but I go everywhere--city streets, MUPs, winding suburban neighborhoods, crappy asphalt "bike paths," even sidewalks. I finally got the perfect fit adjustment dialed in, it's like a dream to ride.
IF you insist on a new hybrid, the 7.2 is nice. I ride mine kind of rough--lots of curb hopping and bad pavement. I haven't had any problems because of it, but I'm small so ymmv. You might also appreciate that it's built more like a mountain bike than a comfort hybrid, and you can adjust the bars pretty low (but not much higher without replacing other hardware). I have my bars about level with the saddle, so it's a nice bent over position, but not squashed. The longest ride I've done on it so far is 17 miles, and it was comfortable all the way. It's nice and light, too, easy to haul up and down the stairs.
I don't know how big you are, or if you're a girl, but I got the 7.2 WSD which is awesome. It's not as awkwardly proportioned as other small frame bikes. I had to narrow the handlebars a bit, go one frame size down from what I thought I'd ride to get the seat/handlebar position I wanted, but otherwise perfect. Plus it's black and pink!
I rode a Giant Cypress for a while. It was nice at first, but I didn't really like it once I started getting in better shape and more confident on the road. I recently got a Trek 7.2 FX which I love. It's still a hybrid, but rides a little more like a MTB: lower bars, less upright position, and there is no suspension. They call it a "fitness" hybrid, which i guess is only to distinguish it from a "comfort" hybrid. It's faster, lighter, easier to ride, and more comfortable. And far less expensive than even an entry level road bike. The key is not expensive--it might be a nice ride until you make up your mind about exactly what you want in a road bike, or IF you want a road bike at all.
Ditto the paint comment. I have the 7.2FX for only a couple months and it's already scratched up and chipped like crazy.
It's fast, much faster than the other hybrid bikes I've ridden, and much lighter. Easy to haul up and down stairs in my apartment building, and on/off the trains. I'm not 100% sure about the brakes though, they seem a little slippery at times.
I have the girl's version--all black with pink, much hotter than the other colors.
discosaurus
08-03-07, 05:04 PM
I geeked out over my bike that I forgot to address the other issue, the part about safety. And I also forgot to mention that the Trek will take a rack (though I don't currently use one on my bike), so it wouldn't be difficult to carry a surfboard or groceries or whatev.
for the ladies:
It's not necessarily sexist to say that some situations are more dangerous for women--it's true. What's sexist is the condition that allows those situations (here i'm referring specifically to violence and crime) to exist exclusively for women. But that's not 100% relevant to this thread. Off my soapbox, there are unfortunate crappy situations that only females have to deal with. Being on a bike on the road, instead of a car, only makes them more immediate.
1) HARASSMENT. Sometimes I get cat-calls and rude comments when I'm out alone. It sucks, though it's usually just rude and not necessarily threatening. (It's taking all I have not to digress into a feminist commentary about how it IS, in fact, an indirect threat or statement of male superiority/authority/ownership over females, but I'll try to stay on track. This is BIKE forums, not gender studies.) How I deal with it depends on my mood. If i'm hauling ass, i just ignore it. If I have a few seconds and I feel relatively safe, I shout back "I'm sorry about your penis!" or just show them my middle finger. The latter is much more satisfying, but it's probably more effective to give them no reaction at all. Sometimes on the light rail train guys would try to talk to me or hit on me with compliments about my bike or my eyes or whatever (again, not flattering) and I'd just say "thanks" and pull out my cell phone and start texting or take out a book to read, something just to ignore them.
2) SAFETY. There were some parts of my urban neighborhood that I didn't like walking or biking through. I simply avoided them, as there was always an alternate route. Only a few times ever did I find myself in a situation where I thought "I don't feel safe here" and that was after I had just moved and didn't know the neighborhood well. I just hauled ass to a familiar street where I felt more comfortable, and never took that route again. Being on a bike in a "bad" neighborhood isn't necessarily more dangerous than being in a car, but I think it feels more so. In the 'burbs and my college town, I fear bad drivers far more than crime. It just takes a general awareness of one's surroundings, scope the street, know what's going on around you. Trust your gut. If it says something's not right, get out of there.
3) DEALING WITH FRIENDS/FAMILY When I mention cycling in traffic, at night, in the city, or riding public transit, etc. with acquaintances they almost always overreact about typical safety concerns because I'm a girl. "OMG what if you get hit by a car/robbed/raped/wipe out...." But i think it's also in part because I'm small and I look young. On the other hand, it seems that I have fewer close calls with motorists than my male friends. Maybe just a matter of perception, but I guess people give me more passing room as a girl than if i were a guy. Because, you know, we're fragile and delicate and need to be treated more gently than men.
That's all I have off the top of my head, and I'd be more than happy to elaborate or discuss any other concerns.
Bikepacker67
08-03-07, 06:22 PM
It's not necessarily sexist to say that some situations are more dangerous for women--it's true.
Actually, crime stats show that it's more dangerous to be a man - in just about all situations.
But chivalric pseudo-stats live on....
donnamb
08-03-07, 07:35 PM
I find that I receive the best of treatment and the worst. People tend to be more courteous to me on the road because I'm female. On the other hand, when there's nastiness it generally has those scary undertones of sexual violence that make many women think twice about travelling outside the "safety" of a motor vehicle. Here's a thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=328418) that I think describes the kinds of things that happen when it's "bad for women". There are some pictures on it of one possibility for security - bike mounted pepper spray.
Bikepacker67
08-03-07, 07:52 PM
I think female cyclists have to deal with the freak factor (although this is a very small % of the population), but it's males that more often have to deal with the d!ckhead factor (a much larger %).
Just my observation. I could be wrong.
discosaurus
08-03-07, 09:19 PM
I think female cyclists have to deal with the freak factor (although this is a very small % of the population), but it's males that more often have to deal with the d!ckhead factor (a much larger %).
Just my observation. I could be wrong.
Probably true.
And the numbers most definitely show that men are robbed, assaulted, and murdered far more often than women.
I think the main issue is based on my #3 point in my last post--the perception of women as victims. We constantly hear "riding the train is not safe, taking the trash to the dumpster in the alley after dark is not safe, riding a bike is not safe, walking on the sidewalk alone in my own neighborhood is not safe... not necessarily true, but something we live with, which is perpetuated by almost every aspect of our culture. Violence against women is eroticized and glamorized in so many ways, it's easy to understand why that bias (that women are more at risk as victims of violent crimes) exists. There's nothing chivalric about it. It's only a reminder of patriarchal dominance. It serves as a way to subjugate women (intentionally or unknowingly--not my call to make) by keeping us in fear of men.
So, I guess my point is the perceived threat of crime is more of an issue for women than men. It may be true that men are statistically more often victims of crime, but they are not conditioned to fear violence like women are.
jakbikesdc
08-04-07, 12:35 AM
Well looks like someone at the bike shop got to my friend and now she is almost sold on a Trek 7200 WSD. they said they are on sale for about 300 there.
I got my other (guy) friend to buy a FX 7.2 and he loves it, but I'm wondering about the WSD for the FX7.2
personally I think she likes the 7200 b/c its pretty much a step-through design, and she loves her skirts. The FX 7.2 doesn't look that way (from the website pic). IMO I like FX 7.2 cuz the front fork is a straight blade w/o a shock. That way you could potentially put on a front and rear rack. The 7200 has front shock. I guess you could still put a rack on the back.
She's stoked about the Mule rack, and will prolly get it. thanks again for the link.
And discosaurus thanks for all the great info. I know that in the south, plenty of rednecks love to holler at chix on bikes. Its second nature for them to holler at anything that moves(tractors included).
Imma see if I can get her to get the 7.2....but the skirt issue, hmm.
cerewa
08-04-07, 07:01 AM
And the numbers most definitely show that men are robbed, assaulted, and murdered far more often than women.
...
It serves as a way to subjugate women (intentionally or unknowingly--not my call to make) by keeping us in fear of men.
....
So, I guess my point is the perceived threat of crime is more of an issue for women than men. It may be true that men are statistically more often victims of crime, but they are not conditioned to fear violence like women are.
I'd rather be a victim of the fear of crime than of crime itself, but you do have a point in that our culture blows fears (of many kinds) out of proportion and that fear may affect more people, more of the time, than crime.
Just look how the deaths of a few thousand people in the USA scared us and helped build political support for wars that caused 100,000 + deaths (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596), and you can see that fear makes a difference.
dingster1
08-04-07, 08:03 AM
There is a "staggered" frame design for the FX series. I have a 7.2 with it, although I don't ride in skirts(shudder), I have an abject fear of slamming onto the top bar on a sudden stop.(Been there done that ain't wanting to go thru it ever again!!!!)
msliam
08-04-07, 08:19 AM
I haven't had a lot of problems riding as a woman. A few catcalls here and there, but nothing I would consider a deterrent to riding. Ignoring it is the best response, IMO.
Choosing one's route carefully is probably the best way to avoid problems. If I'm biking alone after dark I stick to major streets; I can deal with traffic on most of them, and at least I know there are other people around. Bike paths can be dark and isolated at night. I also have this flashlight with a siren function which I carry with me sometimes.
I don't usually ride in a skirt but I have seen many girls who do wearing shorts underneath.
Good luck to your friend!
Bikepacker67
08-04-07, 08:23 AM
There's nothing chivalric about it. It's only a reminder of patriarchal dominance
Chivalry, is patriarchy in practice.
Its whole basis stems from the concept that women are weak and need to be sheltered from big bad men, by big strong men.
discosaurus
08-04-07, 08:50 AM
I don't usually ride in a skirt but I have seen many girls who do wearing shorts underneath.
Good luck to your friend!
That's how I ride. I wish there were more options--I'm not a huge fan of shorts.
I usually ride in shorts, but I love to wear dresses. I've recently been trying out skirts with shorts under, or with cropped leggings like such (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89793269@N00/865250063/in/set-72157594295598851/). That look could even be done with bike geek spandex, if the situation calls for it. At first i was never into that 80's skirts-n-leggings look, but I'm starting to dig it. Especially if it lets me bike in a skirt.
If fashion is a concern (it's a big one for me!) there's some discussion and sharing of clothing and bikes on these two flickr groups: velocouture (http://www.flickr.com/groups/velocouture/)and wardrobe_remix (http://www.flickr.com/groups/wardrobe_remix/).
discosaurus
08-04-07, 09:02 AM
Chivalry, is patriarchy in practice.
Its whole basis stems from the concept that women are weak and need to be sheltered from big bad men, by big strong men.
Word. I guess my perception comes from the "stay away from bad men" view, rather from the "good men protecting us from bad men." The former is simply terrorism. The latter is chivalry, to the letter. Perhaps it's because i reject the notion of accepting protection from men (recognizing their "superiority," a form of oppression) so i was missing the other half of the chivalry equation.
alicestrong
08-04-07, 12:18 PM
Well...women have the very real threat of rape to deal with.
I have a pepper spray canister velcroed to my bars. You don't really need to buy a special holster for the spray. I used the strips that are sold at the drugstore/99cent.
Pepper spray works for dogs, too.
Roody
08-04-07, 12:18 PM
Another suggestion is to inform your friend about Bikeforums (including the Women's Forum) and other resources on the internet. Let her do her own research and draw her own conclusions. I'm assuming she can read! :)
Machka
08-04-07, 12:50 PM
So I am wondering, what kind of things do females face as some of the harder things to overcome when living carfree? like with skirts
I'm having trouble getting past this statement: "like with skirts" ..........
What woman in her right mind would wear a skirt on a bicycle?!?!?!? :eek: :eek: This is NOT 1907 it is 2007 ... we women wear cycling gear just like the guys do!!
OK, now that I've got that out of my system ...
Speaking as a woman who does A LOT of cycling in a lot of different places, over a lot of different types of roads, at all hours of the day and night, etc.
-- I ride like a vehicle of the road ... obeying all the rules of the road as itemized in the highway traffic acts, and city traffic laws, etc. Know your laws! This is VERY important if you want to be respected out there. It can also help to save your life ... if the drivers of motorize vehicles can predict what you are going to do next, they are less likely to run you over.
-- I ride all sorts of different roads from quiet country lanes to busy highways, from residential streets to congested downtown roads. (not saying I necessarily enjoy all types of roads, but I ride them) By riding all sorts of different roads you gain experience in knowing and understanding the traffic on those roads.
-- I avoid bike paths whenever possible, only using them in two circumstances: 1) when I have no other choice; 2) when I feel the urge to ride at an extremely slow pace, walking occasionally when there are other people on the path. Bike paths are generally dangerous places ... not only because of the variety of activities taking place on them (walking, cycling, roller blading, etc.) but also because most bike paths I've been on have sections which go through heavily forested areas (trees, tall thick shrubs, or whatever), and often these trees etc. are right next to the path. The path planners and maintainers rarely clear them back several metres like they should. People can hide in those trees ... and if you're cycling along there, you could be grabbed.
-- I pull over and stop (or walk) on occasion to let motorized traffic have the right-of-way in situations where I know I am (or will be) holding up traffic, or when I feel it is safer to get out of the way of the larger motorized traffic.
-- I wear the same type of cycling gear as male cyclists do. In fact, several of my jerseys are men's jerseys. I wear my hair back in a braid so it isn't obviously long at a casual glance. I wear my helmet, and gloves, and cycling shoes I can run and walk in as well as cycle.
-- On my long rides, I carry pepper spray and my cell phone (as much as I hate them, I can see how they can have a purpose).
-- I let people know where I'm going and approx. how long I'll be gone.
-- If you are going to be riding at dawn, dusk, or in the middle of the night (all of which I do), wear reflective gear and get good lights
-- If you are going to be riding in an area with heavy traffic, do not wear ear buds or headphones. Learn to listen ... my ears have saved me on more than one occasion.
discosaurus
08-04-07, 12:57 PM
Well...women have the very real threat of rape to deal with.
I think the chance of getting attacked on a bike, even in the most dicey of situations, is slim to none. Not saying it never happens, but it happens so very rarely in public by strangers that it's not even a concern for me. Most rapes are committed by someone who the victim knows, in their own home or the home of a friend/family. We just hear about the random ones more often because they're shocking and make for better evening news stories. I'd be more worried about someone trying to steal my bike or my wallet and possibly getting injured in the process, than being assaulted or raped.
Pepper spray is not a bad idea. It scares me though, i'm so clumsy i worry about misfiring if i ever had to use it.
discosaurus
08-04-07, 01:04 PM
I'm having trouble getting past this statement: "like with skirts" ..........
What woman in her right mind would wear a skirt on a bicycle?!?!?!? :eek: :eek: This is NOT 1907 it is 2007 ... we women wear cycling gear just like the guys do!!
I wear skirts on my bike all the time. With the exception of gloves and helmets, I don't own any cycling-specific clothes. I just wear bike-friendly regular street clothes. But I'm kind of a fashion junkie so ymmv.
(and, in defense of the OP he did mention in a later post that this particular gal wears skirts often)
Machka
08-04-07, 01:17 PM
I wear skirts on my bike all the time. With the exception of gloves and helmets, I don't own any cycling-specific clothes. I just wear bike-friendly regular street clothes. But I'm kind of a fashion junkie so ymmv.
(and, in defense of the OP he did mention in a later post that this particular gal wears skirts often)
I wear skirts at work, at college, and at home ... they are very comfortable, expecially on hot days. But NOT on a bicycle!
When I'm commuting, I dress like a cyclist for the commute, then change when I get to work. After all, who would want to wear the same clothes you rode your bicycle in all day at work (ewww!).
I'm heading off on a tour of Europe in a couple days and I packed a skirt like I usually do when I'm going on a tour ... but it is for the time when I'm off the bicycle, not when I'm riding the bicycle. I also have a wrap thing to put over my cycling shorts for when I go into shops etc. ... but it will come off as soon as I get back to my bicycle again.
M_S
08-04-07, 02:06 PM
I think one of the Breezer line would be a good choice, or an xtracycled rigid mountain bike (the latter would be better for surfboard purposes. Or she could xtracycle the cruiser AND get another bike, if funds permit.
Roody
08-04-07, 02:23 PM
I'm having trouble getting past this statement: "like with skirts" ..........
What woman in her right mind would wear a skirt on a bicycle?!?!?!? :eek: :eek: This is NOT 1907 it is 2007 ... we women wear cycling gear just like the guys do!!
Maybe a woman on her way to a date, or a job interview, or her wedding? Cyclists come in a lot of varieties. Some wear cycling gear, some don't. Some are even flexible enough to wear different clothing on different days.
jakbikesdc
08-04-07, 02:57 PM
We went bike shoppin today. She took a ride on the the FX 7.2, and my friend who works at the bike store and I gave her all the reasons why the 7.2 is better than the 7200. She's set on the 7.2 now, which is fantastic. Plus the color on the '08 model is perfect. It's such a cool bike, I kinda want one. If my other friend sells his, I'll buy. There are mounts on the front and back for racks and panniers, so it's a great choice.
I don't see anything wrong with skirts, she had no problems with the 7.2 actually, no flashes. skirts are cooler anyways( in more ways than one). If I was a Scott I'd wear one.
I think she might even make a surf rack. The mule rack looks easy enough to make, and she has a friend that welds.
All this info has been perfect. I'm gunna link her these forums.
Machka
08-04-07, 02:59 PM
Maybe a woman on her way to a date, or a job interview, or her wedding? Cyclists come in a lot of varieties. Some wear cycling gear, some don't. Some are even flexible enough to wear different clothing on different days.
If I were on my way to a date, job interview, or wedding, I'd wear cycling gear for the trip there ...... then clean up and change into my date, job interview or wedding attire when I got there. I wouldn't want to go into any of those situations all greasy and sweaty from my ride there ... who would?? Although, if I were to get married again, I wouldn't mind being married in cycling attire! :D
And I'm not quite sure I understand your last statement ... don't we all wear different clothing on different days? The only time I might not is when I'm on tour and I've got a very limited selection. The rest of the time, not only do I wear different clothing on different days, I wear different clothing depending on my activities ... cycling clothing to ride to work, work clothing at work, cycling clothing on my way home from work, casual relaxing clothing in the evening, dressy clothing if I'm going out, etc. You've got to use the right tool for the job, so to speak.
jakbikesdc
08-04-07, 03:24 PM
hehe, well we're all just sweaty, smelly punx down here anyways. a little sweat and odor is normal to us. We wear what we've got wherever we go. Dates really don't happen that much, maybe an "ounce date", or to an 80's dance party but nothing more.
No one wears cycling gear down here. We ride bikes. that's pretty much it.