Fifty Plus (50+) - Divorcing my Brooks

My butt and my Brooks B 17 are not on speaking terms.

I have 1600 kilometres on the sadddle, and I'm thinking of giving up. I road a tour last week, and after two days I had to swap seats (lucky I brought along an old seat). No saddle sores, just some weird nerve like pain at the end of the day. I am forming some indents in the seat, but they seam to be right over the two round steel parts of the frame (of the saddle).

I really want to like this saddle, should I give it some more time? Put on some magic oil/potion, hit it with a ball pein hammer, or sell it on EBay?

Are there any other Brooks seat which might fit my wide sit bones better?

Thanks.

Thats a lot of miles to put on a saddle and not be comfortable. My Brooks was comfortable from day one, but they aren't for everybody.

Do you mind telling me which model you have? I am looking for another one.

Edit.....Just saw it is a B-17. Is it a 'Champion'?

I don't usually tell this story for fear of being burnt at the stake by Brooks fanatics. But, I too, faced the shame and heartbreak of a seemingly failed relationship with my Brooks saddle. I tried everything--flowers, kind words, candlelight dinners, gentle massages with Proofide. No matter. The B17 remained cold, hard, unresponsive.

Then, in desperation, I performed an act that even now can only be spoken of in whispers. I read that the same thing had worked for mega-distance rider Lon Haldeman. And here it is: I made a basting pan out of aluminum foil which I fit around the saddle. Then I poured a quart of 30-weight motor oil into the pan. I left saddle soaking in the pan out in the blazing sun all afternoon. Later, I wiped off the saddle with some rags, put it on my bike and went for a ride.

That was four years ago. It was the last treatment I ever gave the sadde. The Brooks and I have gotten along like two peas in a pod ever since.

BTW, I later bought another Brooks. It was comfy right out of the box. Go figure.

Are there any other Brooks seat which might fit my wide sit bones better?

Well, the B68 (http://www.wallbike.com/b68.html) is wider, but they say it's for "city or touring use" so I'm not sure it would work well on a road bike. The B17 was too narrow for me on my commuting bike, so now I have a B68 and it's comfy. But I sit fairly upright.

You could always send to MCM SELLE AN-ATOMICA and have them rework it, I have one and right out of the box its been great. Did a 400 mile ride two weeks after getting it and never had a sore butt.
They can rework your Brooks for fifty bucks:

http://www.mcmwin.com/saddle%20shop.htm#Brooks_Upgrade_Services_

While I agree with those that say you shouldn't try the extreme treatments with your Brooks, if it's still causing trouble after that amount of time, what have you got to lose? Give it the oil soaking and see what happens.

Richard
btw, you have far more patience with something that isn't doing the job than I have

I never could see what it was about brooks that made them so popular. They look like a medieval torture device. Go ahead, cross over to the other side. Only comfort awaits you. bk

Most people can't recognize landfill when they see it.

It's a B17 Champion Special Honey Brown, you know the one with the hand hammered copper rivets. That's one of the problems, the saddle is just just so darn pretty, and it looks smashing on my dark green touring bike.

It's like that really pretty girl in high school, with the attitude.You know, great to look at, and be seen with, but after a long period of time, kind of a "pain in the a##".

Walbike or Wallbike or whatever it is lists the sizes of all the saddles on their web site. I'm so happy to have switched to 210 mm wide. With my sit bones 170 mm apart none of the others were comfy.

Then, in desperation, I performed an act that even now can only be spoken of in whispers.

What a pervert.

Before taking any drastic steps, try loosening the tension nut 1/2-1 full turn. I have 3 Brooks saddles. Two were comfortable right out of the box. After 500+ miles, the third still didn't feel good. I turned the tension nut back 1/2 turn & it was immediately better. Another 1/2 turn & it felt as good as the other two. The thickness of the leather will vary ever so slightly between saddles. The tension may be slightly different as well. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Word of caution: Don't tighten the nut any. That is almost never a good idea.

Good luck.

Just measure your sit bones and order a saddle that fits.

My butt and my Brooks B 17 are not on speaking terms.
I really want to like this saddle, should I give it some more time? Put on some magic oil/potion, hit it with a ball pein hammer, or sell it on EBay?


pm George.:D

My butt and my Brooks B 17 are not on speaking terms.

I am forming some indents in the seat, but they seam to be right over the two round steel parts of the frame (of the saddle).

Sounds to me like you may be sitting too far back on the saddle (if I understand correctly what you mean by this). Can the saddle move back any further? Maybe you'll need a seat post with more setback. Or are you saying the indents are near the outer edges of the saddle. If that is the case, you may need a wider model.

I would advise trying reversible adjustments before performing any bizarre rituals involving oils and such.

What, your giving up already, it only took me 1500 miles. 4 coats off proofide and a lot of riding. It's finally there, though. I can sit on the saddle for 40 miles now. I don't know if the saddle broke in or my *****. This is my second one and I don't know if I would go through it again. Maybe in time I'll forget, but in time I'll probably forget everything. Stick it out with the saddle and join the iron butt club.

Now you can tell me where you bought that True North bicycle, that is a very nice bike.

Thanks George I love my bike, it's custom made by Hugh Black at True North Bicycles http://www.truenorthcycles.com/default.asp. Highly recommended!!

Yes I know I am sitting too far back it seems to be a habit, I tend to always push myself back on a seat. George has inspired me, I'll loosen the nut and I will put it back on for another go.

I have a Brooks Pro that I've ridden since 1972, but the first summer with it was PAINFUL. Toward the end of that first summer, I took the route that is not recommended to "fix" the hardness problem. One night, a six pack of beer, a baseball game, a can of Brooks Proofhide and an old rolling pin "that's right the kind you roll out pie crust with.) I opened a beer, smeared a bit of proofhide on the seat and beat the daylight out of it with the rolling pin as I watched the game. Three hours, six beers, and a half-can of proofhide later, the thing wasn't hard anymore. I've had no problems with it over these last 25 years.

Oh yes, I forgot, BD reminded me with his post. I think one of the reasons I had such a hard time, was because, I couldn't get the saddle far enough back. Everytime I went riding my knee was hurting, not much, but hurting just enough to keep trying different things. Anyhow with the set back seat post I got that squared away. I still had knee pain, and I knew something was still wrong. Then the light came on, I said I bet one of my legs are longer than the other. Sure enough, my right leg was almost 1" shorter than my left. Anyhow after all is said and done, I'm glad I kept the Brooks and kept playing with the fit. Now I'm almost affraid to buy a new bike. The reason I stayed with the Brooks is I knew how comfortible it could be, because I ruined one, and it went to soft on me. Before I got caught in the rain you couldn't ask for a better ride. The saddle I have on the bike now, isn't that good yet, but I know it's going to happen. Good luck, you have my blessings.

Hey hoss, did you get a test ride somehow?

Thats a lot of miles to put on a saddle and not be comfortable. My Brooks was comfortable from day one, but they aren't for everybody.

Do you mind telling me which model you have? I am looking for another one.

Edit.....Just saw it is a B-17. Is it a 'Champion'?

Well I'll be dipped! Someone admitting a Brooks is not the cure for cancer. Thank you.

Dipped has something to do with sheep and getting the bugs off by dipping them is some chemical stew.

Don't be so drastic. Give the Brooks a chance to adjust to your sitbones. It's a delight to see a Brooks but I don't have one yet however my eye is open for opportunity to obtain one in a future date.

Well I'll be dipped! Someone admitting a Brooks is not the cure for cancer. Thank you.

Many of us among the Brooks faithful have said that Brooks may not work for everyone. I know I have said that a few times. For all I know, they may cause cancer. If so, I'm still not sure I'd give mine up. :D

or sell it on EBay?

That's what I did with mine, never looked back.

Well I'll be dipped! Someone admitting a Brooks is not the cure for cancer. Thank you.

Dipped has something to do with sheep and getting the bugs off by dipping them is some chemical stew.

I returned mine to Wallbike for full refund. I tried to make it work, but ordered a Selle An-atomica in the meantime. My goodness what a phenomenal saddle. After working with the fit and adjustments a couple of weeks, its reached a state of comfort that I used to dream about.

Bob

I am forming some indents in the seat, but they seam to be right over the two round steel parts of the frame (of the saddle).

This REALLY sounds like a setback issue (a common complaint with the B.17). It is rare to find somebody with ischial tuberosities (i.e., sitbones) so far apart that the B.17 is too narrow for them. Make sure the saddle is pushed back as far as it will go on your current seatpost. If it is already maxed, then call Wallingford and ask for a seatpost with more setback. Trying to ride on the steel frame of a B.17 is miserable. Hope this helps.

My newest Brooks B-17 is only about a week old and it feels more comfortable than my other one which I have been riding on since the spring, but the new one is on a 71 Varsity heavy steel bike and the bike absorbs a lot of bumps that my 2006 model Raleigh can't because its aluminum. I think I'm going to do some more experimenting with the Raleigh as far as the position of the saddle cause I think its just a tad too far back so I'm moving the saddle forward ever so slightly till I get it where I want it. It really stinks to want to like something but it feels uncomfortable, the Brooks may not be your cup of tea. I think if Ihad that much distance on it and it hurt, away it would go to e-bay someone will love it

FWIW I have a Brooks flyer I use on a commuter. If the angle and height are not perfect it is horrible.

FWIW I put something like 1,500 miles on my B-17 and it still wasn't truly broken in. It had "conformed" a bit, but wasn't really comfortable. Then I happened to ride a century in the rain, and that did the trick. After that ride it fit perfectly, and the comfort today is I think worth the earlier hassle. As others have posted, I think there is some variability in the thickness and/or hardness of the leather between saddles, and some need more work than others.

This discussion sounds like an excerpt from a medieval torture manual.

How anyone would put up with months of discomfort to meet someone else's (or the bicycling world's) established "standard" is beyond me?

And to mark finally achieving 40 miles of comfort as some sort of success??

Is it a psychological defect, or simply madness?

I think you should ask for alimony!

Mark me - riding the original factory saddles (out of the box) of my three bikes with 35,000+ miles with no discomfort. And, no further adjustments, besides seat height, have been necessary.

People are different, obviously, and what works from some won't work for others.

Speaking for myself, my left leg is significantly shorter than the right. I use a cleat shim to compensate, but the leg length discrepancy still makes me prone to saddle sores on my left side when I am riding very high mileage. Been that way for 30 years. Or rather, until I put the B-17 on my long distance bike. Plus its comfy even after 100 miles on fixed gear, when you can't raise your rear end off the seat as frequently.

Its not for everyone, and the mysticism thing is of course nonsense. But if it works, it works.

I have several Brooks saddles & most were comfortable right out of the box but were better with age. The leather thickness and stiffness does vary & I noticed the less expensive models seem to break in faster, usually 300-500 miles. My green B17 Champion Special is just starting to show indents after more than 2,000 miles & an acquaintance has one with over 10,000 miles that looks & rides similar to mine.

I rode my first Brooks back in the 80s when I bought a 1969 Raleigh Sports. It had a well worn B72 with deep indents & I expected it would need to be replaced. The seller recommended I ride it a bit before buying a new saddle. Good advice! It was the most comfortable saddle I ever owned.

Is it a psychological defect, or simply madness?



It's both. Take it from one who knows.

OP:
Get a saddle that fits your sitbones, and no, it needn't be a Brooks. No one should feel uncomfortable for so long. There is no mystery here - the saddle doesn't fit you. It's either because of mal-adjustment, or ischial width.

For what it's worth, I'm one of those 235lb guys who is at the outer percentage in terms of ischial width. Most humans vary no more than 15% in skeletal structure size. The 17's are perhaps the uber-average saddle from Brooks. For me, they are extremely confortable til I hit about 85 miles. Then, my slightly wider sitbones begin to tell me that they don't like the steel frame under the sides. But then, it's at 85 miles, too.

I'm not sure if a Brooks saddle will solve World Hunger, but the the things do come from edible products...

If you stay with a Brooks, try the 68. Or, those Selle Anatomica's are really nice, too.

I'm starting to think that my sit bones are perhaps too wide for this seat. I am a really large individual. I think that my skeletal size is larger too. Once when I had a chest x-ray they had to do it in two takes as my chest did not fit on the screen. So may be my big butt has wide bones under it. I might checkout a widder Brooks. Thanks for all the help.

I WAS one of those that had a saddle problem and During the Sore Butt period- I did try a Brooks- Most definitely not for me but that may have been for a reason. In 2001 I had Prostate Surgery and the saddle I had used for years was no longer comfortable. Back to the shop and I bought a new saddle with the Anatomical cutout and it worked- For 2 Weeks. Back to the shop and another saddle and the same result. The Prostate area was adjusting and it did so for the next 4 years. I could not find a saddle that was comfortable then Finally I bought a Flite Gel Max saddle- An updated version of my original saddle and it worked. I must have bought it at the time that the Prostate area finally calmed down- because this saddle worked. Since then 2 new bikes that I still have and those saddles are comfortable. I actually have a spare as I bought a San Marco Aero last year to replace the saddle on the Giant as it was a bit too Firm for me- so 3 bikes- 3 saddles that I do not feel and a Spare.

As to that Brooks- I have tried it since on the MTB but after a full year and about 2,000 miles-I got rid of it after a ride in which I stood up most of the way because the saddle was so painfull.

Interesting, as I have just recently stopped using my Brooks, or at least one of them.

I have 4 Brooks (or had), on a Road racer, road sport/tourer (Heron), commuter/tourer and mt. bike.

I discovered Brooks after a year of Prostatitis, seemingly caused by a variety of different saddles that were a poor fit. That after 10 seasons and a ton of miles (30,000 ?) on about any saddle I wanted to use.

I actually used a recumbent for 2 years, before deciding to give the Brooks a try. In my mind, with years of enjoyment on bikes, as well as thousands of dollars in investment, a $60 saddle was cheap, if it let me ride a DF bike again.

The B17 seemed to fit the bill and I used them for 5 seasons until a month ago.

One of the problems that I could never overcome was chafing of the edge of the chamois where the edge of the saddle meets the butt. Bad chafing, bad saddle sores. That and chafing on the inner thigh caused by the sidewall of the saddle (I know that is a solvable issue by lacing the saddle walls). This made rides longer then 40 miles painful, as well as discomfort on humid days when I would sweat a lot.

A riding buddy then told me about the new Specialized Body Geometry saddles, with a "Fit Kit" for your butt that you sit on, with the sit bone indents in the foam telling you what width saddle. These saddles come in 3 widths, and I was surprised to learn I was the intermediate width at 143mm, which seemed to indicate the B17 was too wide.

OK, I could easily go get a B17 narrow, but I might still end up with inner thigh chafing. Or a Swift or one of the other models, that cost a HUGE amount of money.

Or try a Specialized, which I did. The first model tried was the Alias. Note that I dragged the bike to the store and sat on a wind trainer, trying saddles. This particular shop didn't allow returns on saddles, a stupid policy - I agree, but as they were the only LBS with a selection of Specialized, I was a reluctant but captive audience.

I put 450 miles on the Alias in 2-1/2 weeks. It does the job of supporting the sit bones, so IMO the Specialized fit method works. Chafing on the leg was eliminated, but not solved on the butt. I also found the saddle to be TOO hard, especially on long rides, but I'm a heavy rider (working on that !). Reviews I had read (after the fact - smack head !), from a rider of similar weight said the same - it's a saddle designed for a lighter rider. So, after some research this time, back to the same store for a Specialized Avatar, which my reading seemed to indicate might be a better choice. Gel padding with same shape and fit system. Slightly more padding. Cheaper too.

100 miles later and I'm happier. Still a bit of butt chafing right under the sit bones, but I'm now thinking it's the Pearl Izumi Attack shorts, which have a ribbed chamois. My butt is still a bit raw (sorry if that's TMI), so a few more days on the Avatar might change this.

Riding other bikes with the Brooks still feels OK, but for the long rides, the Specialized seems a better choice.

One odd sensation with the narrower saddle. I swear I get better power out of my glute's with the Specialized - as in, I seemingly have less pressure on certain muscles in the butt, that I had with the Brooks - note that this is on fast group rides, not commuting, etc... that might have been robbing some of my power. Or, it's a muscle adaptation issue. Can't say, except that for now I'm happy with the Specialized.

Steve B

Oops... wrong thread... sorry

Mark me - riding the original factory saddles (out of the box) of my three bikes with 35,000+ miles with no discomfort. And, no further adjustments, besides seat height, have been necessary.

You are disgusting. ;) I hereby award you iron-butt emeritus status. I think we all wish we could have experience like yours. Alas, ours are not made of iron.

Bob

You are disgusting. ;) I hereby award you iron-butt emeritus status. I think we all wish we could have experience like yours. Alas, ours are not made of iron.

Bob

Yes, and I ride in my underwear and don't use any kind of balm, etc. Perhaps there is a message in their somewhere!:D

I returned mine to Wallbike for full refund. I tried to make it work, but ordered a Selle An-atomica in the meantime. My goodness what a phenomenal saddle. After working with the fit and adjustments a couple of weeks, its reached a state of comfort that I used to dream about.

Bob

I'm happy with my Speicalized Alias, but I have ridden a Selle Anatomica, and it was amazing. Definitely worth checking out. I may get on when I can afford it, and a separate seatpost, so I don't have to remove my Alias from its seatpost.

Just bought the B17 Champ Flyer 10 days ago. Did Sheldon's rad break-in thing with Rawlings glove oil in a pan for an hour with the seat inverted and wiped it for a first ride. I liked it better than my factory saddle from the git-go. I put another 150 miles on it over the next few days and then did what everybody told me not to do... ride my first Century on it. When I say everybody, I mean it. But I couldn't resist, I rode it and finished with no problems. No chafing, no sores, less pain than my 1 1/2 year factory squat. Can't wait to put more miles on it and watch others wonder why I smile so much. My bone marks are developing nicely and now I will back off to Poofide for future treatments. It's starting to really look good too.
Sure looks like WE were made for each other, but you know how it is when the infatuation phase is still on.

Ken

Brooks - do you ride them with padded nix or normal undies?
(maybe this should be a poll in a new thread - mods feel free to make it so if considered appropriate).

Just starting the experience with mine. A lot of my riding will be 'plain' as I use the bike for normal running around as well as longer stuff. Do I start the break in with padding or go straight to plain? Do I choose one or the other? When will the rotten thing stop being so slippery?

Richard

Yes, and I ride in my underwear and don't use any kind of balm, etc. Perhaps there is a message in their somewhere!:D\\\

Ask anyone at Burger King what the message is: "Your'e crazy. Anyone who rides a bike is crazy. I don't care what kind of friggin' bike seat you use, or what underwear you choose--or not== you're carzy, you cranky old fart."

Yes, and I ride in my underwear and don't use any kind of balm, etc. Perhaps there is a message in their somewhere!:D

Sometimes, the concept of TMI just kicks in all by itself.

Yes, and I ride in my underwear and don't use any kind of balm, etc.

I have a mental image of DnvrFox flying along a MUP wearing only a thong.

I have a mental image of DnvrFox flying along a MUP wearing only a thong.

Not I, but we have a 74 year old former TDF racer who does - literally! (Well, at least a Speedo, and nothing more.) He rides a vintage 1950's 10 speed, all original.

Not I, but we have a 74 year old former TDF racer who does - literally! (Well, at least a Speedo, and nothing more.) He rides a vintage 1950's 10 speed, all original.


We need a picture...On second thought, maybe not.

I have a mental image of DnvrFox flying along a MUP wearing only a thong.

Thanks. Thanks alot.

I have a mental image of DnvrFox flying along a MUP wearing only a thong.

When I imagine people in thongs, Denver Fox is not one of them. The chick going up Mt. Ventoux though.... Hmmmm is this a meaningful difference?

I took a vacation in Port Washington in July, and I rode the trails mentioned in this article.

But I did not see the woman in the picture (drat!)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.trekshare.com/members/joe/images/jimage208846.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thecitizenguide.com/travel/guide/port-washington-wisconsin.htm&h=746&w=560&sz=90&hl=en&start=61&tbnid=3A_qFSeoiaiYmM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbicycle%2Bthong%26start%3D54%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN