Chicagoan
08-03-07, 07:45 PM
http://wheelrevolution.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
View Full Version : Sidecar out of a Burley Flabed!! All owners visit link
Sianelle
08-11-07, 06:59 PM
That's an interesting link :) I'm wondering how many folk out there use a sidecar on their bicycles? I own an old sidecar rickshaw mounted onto a Chinese 'Phoenix' heavyweight bicycle and I purchased it in a slightly distressed condition because I saw it as being a good car replacement once I could get stuck in and undertake a few repairs and modifications.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
FXjohn
08-11-07, 07:54 PM
yikes. Does it have gears? For your neighbor's sake I hope you hide it in the garage. :)
gerv
08-11-07, 08:09 PM
That's an interesting link :) I'm wondering how many folk out there use a sidecar on their bicycles? I own an old sidecar rickshaw mounted onto a Chinese 'Phoenix' heavyweight bicycle and I purchased it in a slightly distressed condition because I saw it as being a good car replacement once I could get stuck in and undertake a few repairs and modifications.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
Nice... I like it! I'm not sure I would have the strength to pedal it with even one passenger.... what's it like?
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
Nice... I like it! I'm not sure I would have the strength to pedal it with even one passenger.... what's it like?
donnamb
08-11-07, 08:12 PM
That's an interesting link :) I'm wondering how many folk out there use a sidecar on their bicycles? I own an old sidecar rickshaw mounted onto a Chinese 'Phoenix' heavyweight bicycle and I purchased it in a slightly distressed condition because I saw it as being a good car replacement once I could get stuck in and undertake a few repairs and modifications.
I've never seen a sidecar rickshaw before. That's awesome!
I've never seen a sidecar rickshaw before. That's awesome!
Sianelle
08-11-07, 08:15 PM
It's pretty heavy to tell the truth and only single geared, but that gear is pretty low. It rides and handles surprisingly well, but I haven't gone for a serious ride on it yet due to the fact that it needs a bit of TLC and a good mechanical service. The big 28inch wheels make for a smooth ride and it certainly rolls over the bumps well.
Like all my bikes it lives under cover in my garage so it doesn't get to amaze and confuse the neighbours too often; - or not yet at least. ;)
Like all my bikes it lives under cover in my garage so it doesn't get to amaze and confuse the neighbours too often; - or not yet at least. ;)
wahoonc
08-12-07, 07:25 AM
yikes. Does it have gears? For your neighbor's sake I hope you hide it in the garage. :)
Screw the neighbors...let them get their own...or pay for rides:D
Sianelle I am in awe! That is one awesome piece of equipment!
Aaron:)
Screw the neighbors...let them get their own...or pay for rides:D
Sianelle I am in awe! That is one awesome piece of equipment!
Aaron:)
Doug5150
08-12-07, 12:41 PM
http://wheelrevolution.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
So what is the advantage here?
I've never tried it myself, but I do not see much of an improvement over just using a regular trailer. The sidecar is wider (not a benefit!), attached less reliably and not as quickly adaptable as the trailer was--and from the looks of it, the sidecar is considerably unsafer as well because she's got no brake on the sidecar wheel.
Sidecars were never a good idea, they were always a kludge, and time has not improved the concept. If you want proper handling, you get a trike.... (http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trikes.htm)
And I especially don't understand this part:
....My theory is that the side car will offer some added safety while riding, as the increased width and mass will make us far more visible, and force motorists to shove over....
More visible? How do you make a bicycle "more visible" to someone who can't see it in broad daylight already? And how is impeding motor traffic benefiting this lady's bicycling use?
~
So what is the advantage here?
I've never tried it myself, but I do not see much of an improvement over just using a regular trailer. The sidecar is wider (not a benefit!), attached less reliably and not as quickly adaptable as the trailer was--and from the looks of it, the sidecar is considerably unsafer as well because she's got no brake on the sidecar wheel.
Sidecars were never a good idea, they were always a kludge, and time has not improved the concept. If you want proper handling, you get a trike.... (http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trikes.htm)
And I especially don't understand this part:
....My theory is that the side car will offer some added safety while riding, as the increased width and mass will make us far more visible, and force motorists to shove over....
More visible? How do you make a bicycle "more visible" to someone who can't see it in broad daylight already? And how is impeding motor traffic benefiting this lady's bicycling use?
~
AllenG
08-12-07, 01:12 PM
Looks like it would flat cure problems with the Xtracycle tipping over when loading heavy items.
It would also allow one to keep the center of gravity low by placing the heaviest and largest objects in the trailer, making the handling better.
It would also allow one to keep the center of gravity low by placing the heaviest and largest objects in the trailer, making the handling better.
wahoonc
08-12-07, 01:43 PM
Doug,
Other than a possible stability gain I little difference between Sianelle's side car and the pedicab/trike truck. I some ways the side car has an advantage in that the "driver" is sitting up higher and can see better.
As far as increased visibility it will be more visible with the added mass than a conventional bike. Unfortunately that won't necessarily add to safety. I have seen people run into the back of a stopped school bus and claim they didn't see it:rolleyes: and in the one case I witnessed the bus had been stopped for a period of time.
Aaron:)
Other than a possible stability gain I little difference between Sianelle's side car and the pedicab/trike truck. I some ways the side car has an advantage in that the "driver" is sitting up higher and can see better.
As far as increased visibility it will be more visible with the added mass than a conventional bike. Unfortunately that won't necessarily add to safety. I have seen people run into the back of a stopped school bus and claim they didn't see it:rolleyes: and in the one case I witnessed the bus had been stopped for a period of time.
Aaron:)
Doug5150
08-12-07, 02:06 PM
Looks like it would flat cure problems with the Xtracycle tipping over when loading heavy items.
It would also allow one to keep the center of gravity low by placing the heaviest and largest objects in the trailer, making the handling better.
Yea but then what was the xtracycle for?!?!?...
~
It would also allow one to keep the center of gravity low by placing the heaviest and largest objects in the trailer, making the handling better.
Yea but then what was the xtracycle for?!?!?...
~
Doug5150
08-12-07, 02:35 PM
Doug,
Other than a possible stability gain I little difference between Sianelle's side car and the pedicab/trike truck....
If you're comparing the home-made sidecar with one of the trikes from Lightfoot, then yes, there is a big difference. The trikes I linked to have proper 3-wheel [disk] brakes, and carry their loads centered. During emergency stops, this is going to make a BIG difference, especially if the cargo you are carrying around is your child. ...And if she was using the trailer as intended, it would carry the load centered and not interfere with the bicycle's ability to turn rapidly.
...In some ways the side car has an advantage in that the "driver" is sitting up higher and can see better....
Can see what better?
~
Other than a possible stability gain I little difference between Sianelle's side car and the pedicab/trike truck....
If you're comparing the home-made sidecar with one of the trikes from Lightfoot, then yes, there is a big difference. The trikes I linked to have proper 3-wheel [disk] brakes, and carry their loads centered. During emergency stops, this is going to make a BIG difference, especially if the cargo you are carrying around is your child. ...And if she was using the trailer as intended, it would carry the load centered and not interfere with the bicycle's ability to turn rapidly.
...In some ways the side car has an advantage in that the "driver" is sitting up higher and can see better....
Can see what better?
~
AllenG
08-12-07, 02:53 PM
Yea but then what was the xtracycle for?!?!?...
~
For carrying not quite as much stuff.
~
For carrying not quite as much stuff.
wahoonc
08-12-07, 02:55 PM
Can see what better?
~
Traffic, incoming mortar rounds, ....what ever. I have ridden recumbent and was a bit frustrated by my inability to see over most vehicles and the terrain around me. I am used to an upright riding position (think English 3 speed) not being able to see over parked cars, corner trash bins, code required landscaping, etc is frustrating. FWIW I am 6'+ tall and that puts my normal line of vision well over the 5' height. Lowering it to 3' or even less IMHO was uncomfortable. 75% of my riding is urban, where I consider the upright position a plus.
Brakes can be added to side hacks and I can't fault anyone for experimenting with something different. FWIW I don't own a single bike with discs. In fact I still have a couple of Raleighs with the OEM style John Bull black brake pads on them:eek::p Discs may be an improvement, but they are also expensive and can't be retrofitted very well.
Aaron:)
~
Traffic, incoming mortar rounds, ....what ever. I have ridden recumbent and was a bit frustrated by my inability to see over most vehicles and the terrain around me. I am used to an upright riding position (think English 3 speed) not being able to see over parked cars, corner trash bins, code required landscaping, etc is frustrating. FWIW I am 6'+ tall and that puts my normal line of vision well over the 5' height. Lowering it to 3' or even less IMHO was uncomfortable. 75% of my riding is urban, where I consider the upright position a plus.
Brakes can be added to side hacks and I can't fault anyone for experimenting with something different. FWIW I don't own a single bike with discs. In fact I still have a couple of Raleighs with the OEM style John Bull black brake pads on them:eek::p Discs may be an improvement, but they are also expensive and can't be retrofitted very well.
Aaron:)
Doug5150
08-12-07, 03:56 PM
Traffic, incoming mortar rounds, ....what ever. I have ridden recumbent and was a bit frustrated by my inability to see over most vehicles and the terrain around me. I am used to an upright riding position (think English 3 speed) not being able to see over parked cars, corner trash bins, code required landscaping, etc is frustrating. FWIW I am 6'+ tall and that puts my normal line of vision well over the 5' height. Lowering it to 3' or even less IMHO was uncomfortable. 75% of my riding is urban, where I consider the upright position a plus.
I do not think that the Lightfoot trikes would ride that low.
I have one of these bikes:
http://www.cyclegenius.com/ltx.html
I'm 6'2" tall and just measured, and my eyes are 54 inches height when seated on this bike.
The seat on mine appears to be about what the Lightfoot cycles use (both bikes use 26"/559 rear wheels).
I don't have a normal bike to compare, but I can estimate: the semi-normal (http://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion07.htm) biycle I have has a normal-height BB, and it results in about 5" of pedal clearance between the ground and the pedals at BDC. I just measured in a mirror and my eyes are just about 5" below my total height. So sitting on a "normal" bicycle with my spine perfectly vertical would raise my eyes to about 74" off the ground--but nobody rides a bicycle that way; everybody leans forward at least somewhat, and that loses 4 to 6 inches in height... (using six inches) putting my eyes around 68" .... versus 54" on the recumbent.
Around fourteen inches less.
If you compared a recumbent to a conventional road bike, the practical height difference is even less--for years RANS had an advertisement that noted that when you rode their Stratus (http://www.ransbikes.com/StratusLE07.htm) model, your eyes were only four inches lower than if you were riding a conventional road bike on the drops.
A lot of people think there's a huge difference in visibility on recumbents, and there's usually not.
I don't know what bike you were riding that put your eyesight only three feet off the ground, but there's very few recumbent bikes that sit that low. The Challenge Fujin (http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=fujinsl) and Velokraft VK2 (http://www.velokraft.com/-vk2.htm) would be two. They are expensive and rare even among recumbent cyclists, and they're for long-distance riding, nobody buys them for urban utility use.
~
I do not think that the Lightfoot trikes would ride that low.
I have one of these bikes:
http://www.cyclegenius.com/ltx.html
I'm 6'2" tall and just measured, and my eyes are 54 inches height when seated on this bike.
The seat on mine appears to be about what the Lightfoot cycles use (both bikes use 26"/559 rear wheels).
I don't have a normal bike to compare, but I can estimate: the semi-normal (http://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion07.htm) biycle I have has a normal-height BB, and it results in about 5" of pedal clearance between the ground and the pedals at BDC. I just measured in a mirror and my eyes are just about 5" below my total height. So sitting on a "normal" bicycle with my spine perfectly vertical would raise my eyes to about 74" off the ground--but nobody rides a bicycle that way; everybody leans forward at least somewhat, and that loses 4 to 6 inches in height... (using six inches) putting my eyes around 68" .... versus 54" on the recumbent.
Around fourteen inches less.
If you compared a recumbent to a conventional road bike, the practical height difference is even less--for years RANS had an advertisement that noted that when you rode their Stratus (http://www.ransbikes.com/StratusLE07.htm) model, your eyes were only four inches lower than if you were riding a conventional road bike on the drops.
A lot of people think there's a huge difference in visibility on recumbents, and there's usually not.
I don't know what bike you were riding that put your eyesight only three feet off the ground, but there's very few recumbent bikes that sit that low. The Challenge Fujin (http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=fujinsl) and Velokraft VK2 (http://www.velokraft.com/-vk2.htm) would be two. They are expensive and rare even among recumbent cyclists, and they're for long-distance riding, nobody buys them for urban utility use.
~
Sianelle
08-12-07, 04:05 PM
Yes those old Raleighs are great aren't they Aaron :)
Despite being interested in any kind of HPV developments and recumbents in general I still continue to ride my upright ladies roadster bicycles and retro-Edwardian tricycle. Why? - because as Aaron has pointed out you can just plain see better when riding around town. Being able to see if a parked car is occupied and if it is what the driver is doing can pre-warn you of a possible danger that someone is about to try and occupy the same space on the road as yourself. In such cases a quick ring of my bicycle's Lucas 'King of the Road' bell, or in the case of my tricycle a honk of the old fashioned bulb horn quickly alerts the driver that I'm there. If I was riding a recumbent I would more than likely end up with tyre marks across my chest instead.
As for the folk who run into school buses and not see them, - there are always going to be those drivers who shouldn't even be allowed outside on their own let alone be in charge of a motor car (sigh).
As somebody who does a lot of miles on a tricycle I must comment that their big failing is not being able to easily see any load you might be carrying. I owned a motorcycle and sidecar for some years and I must say they are a far more social form of transport if you're carrying a passenger. When my children were small they rode in the sidecar and it was great to be able to see them and what they were up to. (Actually most of they time they were too wide-eyed thrilled to be out with me on my motorcycle to be doing anything naughty). For carrying loads a sidecar is entirely practical and the extra width does make motorists behave themselves and treat you as another vehicle on the road. If you know what you're doing with riding a sidecar outfit a brake on the sidecar wheel isn't necessary, but if you intend to carry heavy or bulky loads it would be smart to have one. As for holding up traffic (shrugs), car drivers hold up traffic everyday and do far dafter things with their cars than I've ever seen any bicyclist do.
Despite being interested in any kind of HPV developments and recumbents in general I still continue to ride my upright ladies roadster bicycles and retro-Edwardian tricycle. Why? - because as Aaron has pointed out you can just plain see better when riding around town. Being able to see if a parked car is occupied and if it is what the driver is doing can pre-warn you of a possible danger that someone is about to try and occupy the same space on the road as yourself. In such cases a quick ring of my bicycle's Lucas 'King of the Road' bell, or in the case of my tricycle a honk of the old fashioned bulb horn quickly alerts the driver that I'm there. If I was riding a recumbent I would more than likely end up with tyre marks across my chest instead.
As for the folk who run into school buses and not see them, - there are always going to be those drivers who shouldn't even be allowed outside on their own let alone be in charge of a motor car (sigh).
As somebody who does a lot of miles on a tricycle I must comment that their big failing is not being able to easily see any load you might be carrying. I owned a motorcycle and sidecar for some years and I must say they are a far more social form of transport if you're carrying a passenger. When my children were small they rode in the sidecar and it was great to be able to see them and what they were up to. (Actually most of they time they were too wide-eyed thrilled to be out with me on my motorcycle to be doing anything naughty). For carrying loads a sidecar is entirely practical and the extra width does make motorists behave themselves and treat you as another vehicle on the road. If you know what you're doing with riding a sidecar outfit a brake on the sidecar wheel isn't necessary, but if you intend to carry heavy or bulky loads it would be smart to have one. As for holding up traffic (shrugs), car drivers hold up traffic everyday and do far dafter things with their cars than I've ever seen any bicyclist do.
Gurgus
08-12-07, 05:13 PM
Damn, I really like that sidecar rig. Nice.
wahoonc
08-12-07, 05:15 PM
Doug,
Of the two recumbents I have ridden, one was a tadpole trike, the other an old Easy racer. With both I felt like I was not seeing enough of what was going on around me. It may well be that there is only a a foot or so difference in eye level but that is enough to me to miss something critical. FWIW on a road bike even in the drop position you can still sit up and get a view of what is ahead, with a recumbent you are stuck at the level you are sitting at unless you stop and stand up. I ride in fairly congested areas and need the heads up view. And yes on at least two of my bikes my riding position is almost "bolt upright" with a straight back. Recumbent bicycles and tricycles have their place and I know many people that would be unable to ride if they didn't have a recumbent. But to summarily dismiss something as a side car as dangerous and no good is a bit of stretch. Someone is always inventing a better mouse trap, but we still have mice:p
Aaron:)
Of the two recumbents I have ridden, one was a tadpole trike, the other an old Easy racer. With both I felt like I was not seeing enough of what was going on around me. It may well be that there is only a a foot or so difference in eye level but that is enough to me to miss something critical. FWIW on a road bike even in the drop position you can still sit up and get a view of what is ahead, with a recumbent you are stuck at the level you are sitting at unless you stop and stand up. I ride in fairly congested areas and need the heads up view. And yes on at least two of my bikes my riding position is almost "bolt upright" with a straight back. Recumbent bicycles and tricycles have their place and I know many people that would be unable to ride if they didn't have a recumbent. But to summarily dismiss something as a side car as dangerous and no good is a bit of stretch. Someone is always inventing a better mouse trap, but we still have mice:p
Aaron:)
Doug5150
08-12-07, 05:33 PM
....Despite being interested in any kind of HPV developments and recumbents in general I still continue to ride my upright ladies roadster bicycles and retro-Edwardian tricycle. Why? - because as Aaron has pointed out you can just plain see better when riding around town. Being able to see if a parked car is occupied and if it is what the driver is doing can pre-warn you of a possible danger that someone is about to try and occupy the same space on the road as yourself....
Could you provide some real-world example?
You could state that you prefer one type of bicycle or another, but I'm not understanding why you think that having one's eyes ~68 inches above the ground is going to reveal vastly more than having them only ~54 inches above the ground. When I ride that thing up alongside a lot of cars, I'm sitting a couple inches higher than people in the cars are....
...In such cases a quick ring of my bicycle's Lucas 'King of the Road' bell, or in the case of my tricycle a honk of the old fashioned bulb horn quickly alerts the driver that I'm there. If I was riding a recumbent I would more than likely end up with tyre marks across my chest instead.
....
You think bells and horns don't work on recumbents?
~
Could you provide some real-world example?
You could state that you prefer one type of bicycle or another, but I'm not understanding why you think that having one's eyes ~68 inches above the ground is going to reveal vastly more than having them only ~54 inches above the ground. When I ride that thing up alongside a lot of cars, I'm sitting a couple inches higher than people in the cars are....
...In such cases a quick ring of my bicycle's Lucas 'King of the Road' bell, or in the case of my tricycle a honk of the old fashioned bulb horn quickly alerts the driver that I'm there. If I was riding a recumbent I would more than likely end up with tyre marks across my chest instead.
....
You think bells and horns don't work on recumbents?
~
Doug5150
08-12-07, 06:02 PM
Doug,
Of the two recumbents I have ridden, one was a tadpole trike, the other an old Easy racer. ...
Tadpole trikes are a poor example in this regard, they are some of the lowest-seat-position HPV's around.
See photo of Greenspeed GTE, a typical example:
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/OldWebPics/GTE-E%20(Yellow-BB)%201536.jpg
--this trike uses 20 inch (406mm) wheels, and the seat base height is about even with the axles, and the seat back angle is fixed rather reclined. This is common with tadpole trikes, and your eyes would probably be only around 3 feet off the ground. ...But if you look at the Lightfoot trikes, they're not built like this. On them, the seat base is almost level with the tops of the rear 26" wheels, and the seatback angle is much more upright.
The Tour Easy is not that low at all however, it's similar to what I ride:
http://www.easyracers.com/tour_easy.htm
...here we see, the seat base is almost level with the top of the rear 700c wheel, and the seat back is also quite upright.
...With both I felt like I was not seeing enough of what was going on around me. It may well be that there is only a a foot or so difference in eye level but that is enough to me to miss something critical. FWIW on a road bike even in the drop position you can still sit up and get a view of what is ahead, with a recumbent you are stuck at the level you are sitting at unless you stop and stand up....
Well the main reason you can't see well on the drops of road bikes is that your neck gets tired and you end up spending a lot of time watching the pavement three feet in front of your front tire. Simply holding your head up becomes a struggle. On a recumbent your neck generally doesn't get tired this way.
While riding a recumbent (that has a similar seat-height to the Lightfoot trikes) I've never had to stop and stand up to look at anything that I would have been able to see on an upright bike.
When you guys on upright English 3-speeds figure out what it is you're looking at be sure to tell me, because I haven't been seeing it for ~6 years now.
~
Of the two recumbents I have ridden, one was a tadpole trike, the other an old Easy racer. ...
Tadpole trikes are a poor example in this regard, they are some of the lowest-seat-position HPV's around.
See photo of Greenspeed GTE, a typical example:
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/OldWebPics/GTE-E%20(Yellow-BB)%201536.jpg
--this trike uses 20 inch (406mm) wheels, and the seat base height is about even with the axles, and the seat back angle is fixed rather reclined. This is common with tadpole trikes, and your eyes would probably be only around 3 feet off the ground. ...But if you look at the Lightfoot trikes, they're not built like this. On them, the seat base is almost level with the tops of the rear 26" wheels, and the seatback angle is much more upright.
The Tour Easy is not that low at all however, it's similar to what I ride:
http://www.easyracers.com/tour_easy.htm
...here we see, the seat base is almost level with the top of the rear 700c wheel, and the seat back is also quite upright.
...With both I felt like I was not seeing enough of what was going on around me. It may well be that there is only a a foot or so difference in eye level but that is enough to me to miss something critical. FWIW on a road bike even in the drop position you can still sit up and get a view of what is ahead, with a recumbent you are stuck at the level you are sitting at unless you stop and stand up....
Well the main reason you can't see well on the drops of road bikes is that your neck gets tired and you end up spending a lot of time watching the pavement three feet in front of your front tire. Simply holding your head up becomes a struggle. On a recumbent your neck generally doesn't get tired this way.
While riding a recumbent (that has a similar seat-height to the Lightfoot trikes) I've never had to stop and stand up to look at anything that I would have been able to see on an upright bike.
When you guys on upright English 3-speeds figure out what it is you're looking at be sure to tell me, because I haven't been seeing it for ~6 years now.
~
Sianelle
08-12-07, 08:01 PM
Could you provide some real-world example?
You could state that you prefer one type of bicycle or another, but I'm not understanding why you think that having one's eyes ~68 inches above the ground is going to reveal vastly more than having them only ~54 inches above the ground. When I ride that thing up alongside a lot of cars, I'm sitting a couple inches higher than people in the cars are....
You think bells and horns don't work on recumbents?
~
A real world example? - well I will assure you that I do ride all my vintage bicycles out in the real world and they very much get used as my everyday transport as I don't own a car.
The bicycles I ride -
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1963/indianherculesep3.jpg
Indian built Hercules roadster: This bike is now converted to a retro Edwardian tricycle.
1953 English Hercules roadster.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1980/anniesherculesvg5.jpg
1942 Holfa by Veeno Dutch roadster.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/998/holfabikecz5.jpg
1947 English Raleigh Sports.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4827/anniessportshr1.jpg
I'm a 6ft tall thin woman, so I would imagine that 68inches would be close for the level my eyes are at while riding one of my roadster bicycles. I find that I can easily see into vans, light trucks and SUVs and see what the driver is doing. I have a good view over the top of parked cars so I'm able to see children and elderly folk on the pavement who might step into the road. I can see over the municipal shrubs and flower beds as well as brick walls, utility cabinets and street furniture that line the road edges in parts of town. I have no desire to cast stones at recumbent bicycles, trikes and quads because they do interest me greatly, but from my own experience I feel much more secure and informed of my environment riding my tall roadster bicycles about the town.
Yes I do realise that recumbents can and do have bells & etc, but I was merely expressing my delight in being able to use suitably period accessories on my bicycles. Any impression that I was saying that recumbents lack for such equipment is due to errors in the way I constructed those sentences.:o
You could state that you prefer one type of bicycle or another, but I'm not understanding why you think that having one's eyes ~68 inches above the ground is going to reveal vastly more than having them only ~54 inches above the ground. When I ride that thing up alongside a lot of cars, I'm sitting a couple inches higher than people in the cars are....
You think bells and horns don't work on recumbents?
~
A real world example? - well I will assure you that I do ride all my vintage bicycles out in the real world and they very much get used as my everyday transport as I don't own a car.
The bicycles I ride -
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1963/indianherculesep3.jpg
Indian built Hercules roadster: This bike is now converted to a retro Edwardian tricycle.
1953 English Hercules roadster.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1980/anniesherculesvg5.jpg
1942 Holfa by Veeno Dutch roadster.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/998/holfabikecz5.jpg
1947 English Raleigh Sports.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4827/anniessportshr1.jpg
I'm a 6ft tall thin woman, so I would imagine that 68inches would be close for the level my eyes are at while riding one of my roadster bicycles. I find that I can easily see into vans, light trucks and SUVs and see what the driver is doing. I have a good view over the top of parked cars so I'm able to see children and elderly folk on the pavement who might step into the road. I can see over the municipal shrubs and flower beds as well as brick walls, utility cabinets and street furniture that line the road edges in parts of town. I have no desire to cast stones at recumbent bicycles, trikes and quads because they do interest me greatly, but from my own experience I feel much more secure and informed of my environment riding my tall roadster bicycles about the town.
Yes I do realise that recumbents can and do have bells & etc, but I was merely expressing my delight in being able to use suitably period accessories on my bicycles. Any impression that I was saying that recumbents lack for such equipment is due to errors in the way I constructed those sentences.:o
AllenG
08-18-07, 04:42 PM
Got bored this weekend and since I have a Xtracycle and a Flatbed......
I haven't taken it past the proof of concept stage, but it's going to be an easy modification.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Sidecar1.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Sidecar2.jpg
I haven't taken it past the proof of concept stage, but it's going to be an easy modification.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Sidecar1.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Sidecar2.jpg
wahoonc
08-18-07, 05:22 PM
Got bored this weekend and since I have a Xtracycle and a Flatbed......
I haven't taken it past the proof of concept stage, but it's going to be an easy modification.
:eek: WOW! Now that is a load hauler...:roflmao::beer:
Aaron:)
I haven't taken it past the proof of concept stage, but it's going to be an easy modification.
:eek: WOW! Now that is a load hauler...:roflmao::beer:
Aaron:)
Sianelle
08-18-07, 05:28 PM
Hey I like that :) It looks like it's going to be a very useful rig. I for one will be interested to hear how your test rides go.
AllenG
08-18-07, 06:13 PM
Thanks guys.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Gizmo.jpg
Anyone know what that^^^thingamabob is called? It's a ball on a "L" spring and allows two pieces of telescoping pipe to be easily locked together, similar in function to a bolt and cotter pin.
Monday I'm going to head down the the hardware store and buy the right size pipe so I can have a quick-detach system for the trailer; mount it to the frame the same way the "wide-loaders" are mounted.
So far it's only held in place with zip-ties, but I do get a good idea of how it will handle. Turning right is basically the same as turning right without the trailer. The trailer just lifts off the ground, don't know how it will be with a load though. Turning left, be prepared to make wide turns. I have about the same turning radius as my Miata when going left; not bad, but still plan ahead.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Gizmo.jpg
Anyone know what that^^^thingamabob is called? It's a ball on a "L" spring and allows two pieces of telescoping pipe to be easily locked together, similar in function to a bolt and cotter pin.
Monday I'm going to head down the the hardware store and buy the right size pipe so I can have a quick-detach system for the trailer; mount it to the frame the same way the "wide-loaders" are mounted.
So far it's only held in place with zip-ties, but I do get a good idea of how it will handle. Turning right is basically the same as turning right without the trailer. The trailer just lifts off the ground, don't know how it will be with a load though. Turning left, be prepared to make wide turns. I have about the same turning radius as my Miata when going left; not bad, but still plan ahead.
Sianelle
08-18-07, 07:02 PM
Um..... pass .....;) I wouldn't have a clue what one of those 'wotsits' is called.
After years of sidecar riding (though with the sidecar on the LHS) I'm happy to advise you that things do get better with a load. After a while you do get the knack of leaning into the sidecar to stop the wheel rising when running light, but really it's not too much of a problem. Oncoming motorists sometimes do panic though thinking that you might've lost it big time when they see the wheel rising, but generally it's Ok. For quick 'U' turns turning towards the sidecar will bring you around in your own length with a little practice, but turning away from the sidecar is always going to be the wider turn.
Annie :D
After years of sidecar riding (though with the sidecar on the LHS) I'm happy to advise you that things do get better with a load. After a while you do get the knack of leaning into the sidecar to stop the wheel rising when running light, but really it's not too much of a problem. Oncoming motorists sometimes do panic though thinking that you might've lost it big time when they see the wheel rising, but generally it's Ok. For quick 'U' turns turning towards the sidecar will bring you around in your own length with a little practice, but turning away from the sidecar is always going to be the wider turn.
Annie :D
Doug5150
08-19-07, 07:06 AM
Thanks guys.
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Gizmo.jpg
Anyone know what that^^^thingamabob is called? It's a ball on a "L" spring and allows two pieces of telescoping pipe to be easily locked together, similar in function to a bolt and cotter pin.....
McMaster-Carr (online) has them.
http://www.mcmaster.com/
See part # 94282A250 (this is just one size I picked, there's a bunch of sizes)
or from the home page, look under "Fastening and sealing" -- "pins", and then scroll down to "pins for telescoping tubing" at the bottom of the page.
~
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Gizmo.jpg
Anyone know what that^^^thingamabob is called? It's a ball on a "L" spring and allows two pieces of telescoping pipe to be easily locked together, similar in function to a bolt and cotter pin.....
McMaster-Carr (online) has them.
http://www.mcmaster.com/
See part # 94282A250 (this is just one size I picked, there's a bunch of sizes)
or from the home page, look under "Fastening and sealing" -- "pins", and then scroll down to "pins for telescoping tubing" at the bottom of the page.
~
FXjohn
08-19-07, 01:07 PM
I think it's called a "Ball Plunger" which mates to a "Ball Detent"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_detent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_detent
StephenH
12-19-07, 11:54 AM
A cool pedicab sidecar with bike:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Powered-Indonesian-Rickshaw-EYECATCHER-Must-SEE_W0QQitemZ180194485240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ145984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Powered-Indonesian-Rickshaw-EYECATCHER-Must-SEE_W0QQitemZ180194485240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ145984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Sianelle
12-19-07, 01:43 PM
A cool pedicab sidecar with bike:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Powered-Indonesian-Rickshaw-EYECATCHER-Must-SEE_W0QQitemZ180194485240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ145984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
That looks like a more fancy version of my own rickshaw. The body on the sidecar is certainly the same.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Powered-Indonesian-Rickshaw-EYECATCHER-Must-SEE_W0QQitemZ180194485240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ145984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
That looks like a more fancy version of my own rickshaw. The body on the sidecar is certainly the same.
oldfool
12-20-07, 05:53 AM
A real world example? - well I will assure you that I do ride all my vintage bicycles out in the real world and they very much get used as my everyday transport as I don't own a car.
The bicycles I ride -
Indian built Hercules roadster: This bike is now converted to a retro Edwardian tricycle.
1953 English Hercules roadster.
1942 Holfa by Veeno Dutch roadster.
1947 English Raleigh Sports.
.......................................................... is due to errors in the way I constructed those sentences.:o
Wow! Your writing and your bicycles make me green with envy. Now I think I'll go out and throw rocks at my bikes.:o:)
In case in wasn't clear I really love those bikes.:):)
The bicycles I ride -
Indian built Hercules roadster: This bike is now converted to a retro Edwardian tricycle.
1953 English Hercules roadster.
1942 Holfa by Veeno Dutch roadster.
1947 English Raleigh Sports.
.......................................................... is due to errors in the way I constructed those sentences.:o
Wow! Your writing and your bicycles make me green with envy. Now I think I'll go out and throw rocks at my bikes.:o:)
In case in wasn't clear I really love those bikes.:):)
cosmo starr
12-20-07, 09:48 AM
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Giant/Sidecar2.jpg
looks pretty ideal for hauling a kayak
looks pretty ideal for hauling a kayak
kevbo
12-21-07, 12:59 PM
Not cyber-stalking you Sainelle, honest! (I PM'd her on the motored bike forum the other day) That is one sweet hack rig.
I have no experience with Human powered sidecars, but a bit with motorcycle versions, and lots of experience with bicycles, so I'll weigh in:
Stability: Like all three wheelers, sidecar rigs FEEL tippy. Like a milk stool, all three "feet" will find ground somewhere. A four wheeled vehicle can float one wheel over a dip, but with a three wheeler, the rig will tip so that all wheels follow the terrain. You get used to it, but it can really bother new passengers a lot. Probably less of an issue at bicycle speeds than motorcycle speeds.
Turns toward* the sidecar will tend to lift the sidecar wheel. You should practice riding while "flying the chair", as it will happen sooner rather than later, and you need to know how to handle it. Always plan these turns so you have some room to run wider if the chair lifts....In onther words, slow down enough so that you can take the tightest possible line if your estimate is correct, and run wide if (when!) it is wrong.
Turns away** from the sidecar will lighten the rear wheel. If that wheel comes off the ground or slides much at all, the rig will go out of control VERY quickly, probably faster than the driver can react. The resulting crash is rather nasty, as the sidecar then becomes something of a vaulting pole. But at least with a bike, you won't have several hundred pounds of scalding hot, gas leaking, machinery come down on top of you! ***
In both cases, hanging off the bike toward the inside of the turn will help a lot, probably more so on a bicycle than on a motorcycle. Get your tush off the saddle, and hang both cheeks over there.
Alighment: Normally there is a small amount of toe-in between the sidecar wheel and the rear wheel. Since they are not co-axial, this must be measured using long boards layed against the tires. 3-5/16" over 5' would be a typical motorcycle rig value. The tug is normally adjusted to lean slightly outward to counter the steering forces due to drag of the sidecar. 1-2.5 degrees of lean-out is typical for motorcycles. Both of these could probably be closer to neutral for a pedaled rig with less weight, and lower speeds. Sidecars are normally attached with the side wheel a bit ahead of the rear wheel. The further ahead it is, the better the stability, the heavier the steering, and the worse the tire wear. Experimenters should build in a way to adjust this, as it has a huge effect on handling.
You need strong wheels, with little or no dish on the rear wheel. Because a sidecar rig makes flat turns (no leaning) the side loads on the wheels (and forks, and frame) are much higher than on a two wheeler.
*Left turns on Sainelle's UK/Oz/NZ/Japan setup, right per normal (sidecar on right side) American practice.
**Left turns per normal US (hack on right) practice.
***Yes this is the voice of experience. I was lucky to come away from it with some mild scrapes and a sprained shoulder.
I have no experience with Human powered sidecars, but a bit with motorcycle versions, and lots of experience with bicycles, so I'll weigh in:
Stability: Like all three wheelers, sidecar rigs FEEL tippy. Like a milk stool, all three "feet" will find ground somewhere. A four wheeled vehicle can float one wheel over a dip, but with a three wheeler, the rig will tip so that all wheels follow the terrain. You get used to it, but it can really bother new passengers a lot. Probably less of an issue at bicycle speeds than motorcycle speeds.
Turns toward* the sidecar will tend to lift the sidecar wheel. You should practice riding while "flying the chair", as it will happen sooner rather than later, and you need to know how to handle it. Always plan these turns so you have some room to run wider if the chair lifts....In onther words, slow down enough so that you can take the tightest possible line if your estimate is correct, and run wide if (when!) it is wrong.
Turns away** from the sidecar will lighten the rear wheel. If that wheel comes off the ground or slides much at all, the rig will go out of control VERY quickly, probably faster than the driver can react. The resulting crash is rather nasty, as the sidecar then becomes something of a vaulting pole. But at least with a bike, you won't have several hundred pounds of scalding hot, gas leaking, machinery come down on top of you! ***
In both cases, hanging off the bike toward the inside of the turn will help a lot, probably more so on a bicycle than on a motorcycle. Get your tush off the saddle, and hang both cheeks over there.
Alighment: Normally there is a small amount of toe-in between the sidecar wheel and the rear wheel. Since they are not co-axial, this must be measured using long boards layed against the tires. 3-5/16" over 5' would be a typical motorcycle rig value. The tug is normally adjusted to lean slightly outward to counter the steering forces due to drag of the sidecar. 1-2.5 degrees of lean-out is typical for motorcycles. Both of these could probably be closer to neutral for a pedaled rig with less weight, and lower speeds. Sidecars are normally attached with the side wheel a bit ahead of the rear wheel. The further ahead it is, the better the stability, the heavier the steering, and the worse the tire wear. Experimenters should build in a way to adjust this, as it has a huge effect on handling.
You need strong wheels, with little or no dish on the rear wheel. Because a sidecar rig makes flat turns (no leaning) the side loads on the wheels (and forks, and frame) are much higher than on a two wheeler.
*Left turns on Sainelle's UK/Oz/NZ/Japan setup, right per normal (sidecar on right side) American practice.
**Left turns per normal US (hack on right) practice.
***Yes this is the voice of experience. I was lucky to come away from it with some mild scrapes and a sprained shoulder.
Sianelle
12-21-07, 02:40 PM
Not cyber-stalking you Sainelle, honest! (I PM'd her on the motored bike forum the other day) That is one sweet hack rig.
That rickshaw sidecar outfit is going to be a candidate for motorising soon. Most probably electric, but I haven't made up my mind just yet. :D
That rickshaw sidecar outfit is going to be a candidate for motorising soon. Most probably electric, but I haven't made up my mind just yet. :D
phantompong
12-22-07, 08:19 AM
There are people making a living on giving trishaw (tricycle + rickshaw - same thing as above, but I grew up calling them trishaws) rides here (in fact, there was recently some fuss on Youtube because three English tourists got off the trishaw after five minutes and paid the trishaw uncle less than the agreed amount, took a video of the trip and posted it on Youtube as "The Slowest Taxi in Southeast Asia").
I find this thread amusing because I've observed, among other things, that these trishaw riders break every rule regarding A&S - riding on the right (we drive on the left), no front lights, using glowstick-type lights as substitutes for tail lights at night, etc. These riders couldn't care less that the sidecar-side wheel has no brake, or how high above the ground their eyes are. For them it's a way to make a living. Sure, they go really slow - they're more recreational than transportational. But no, no one hits them, even at night. (They're mostly elderly men, and Singapore is still traditional in that way - we respect the elderly. I suppose that's the issue, respect.)
Just thought I'd offer some perspective.
I find this thread amusing because I've observed, among other things, that these trishaw riders break every rule regarding A&S - riding on the right (we drive on the left), no front lights, using glowstick-type lights as substitutes for tail lights at night, etc. These riders couldn't care less that the sidecar-side wheel has no brake, or how high above the ground their eyes are. For them it's a way to make a living. Sure, they go really slow - they're more recreational than transportational. But no, no one hits them, even at night. (They're mostly elderly men, and Singapore is still traditional in that way - we respect the elderly. I suppose that's the issue, respect.)
Just thought I'd offer some perspective.
Sixty Fiver
12-22-07, 09:37 AM
That's an interesting link :) I'm wondering how many folk out there use a sidecar on their bicycles? I own an old sidecar rickshaw mounted onto a Chinese 'Phoenix' heavyweight bicycle and I purchased it in a slightly distressed condition because I saw it as being a good car replacement once I could get stuck in and undertake a few repairs and modifications.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
Sianelle - You have some of the most lovely and interesting bicycles and the sidecar is just plain cool.
My co-worker used to manufacture these in the Philippines as a sideline to his regular work as a machinist and welder and has shown me quite a number of his sidecar rickshaws.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9123/rickshaw2cr9.png
My ultimate aim is to make the body more weatherproof and to fit up some kind of electric assistance to help me out on the occasional small hill we have around town as well as to get me home when I get tired.
Sianelle - You have some of the most lovely and interesting bicycles and the sidecar is just plain cool.
My co-worker used to manufacture these in the Philippines as a sideline to his regular work as a machinist and welder and has shown me quite a number of his sidecar rickshaws.
StephenH
01-09-08, 05:57 PM
Another sidecar pedicab:
http://cgi.ebay.com/imported-vintage-pohenix-pedicab-bicycle-sidecar-oneoff_W0QQitemZ280190181965QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting that nobody seems to sell these in the US or use them commercially, although they don't seem that uncommon on the used market.
http://cgi.ebay.com/imported-vintage-pohenix-pedicab-bicycle-sidecar-oneoff_W0QQitemZ280190181965QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting that nobody seems to sell these in the US or use them commercially, although they don't seem that uncommon on the used market.
Sianelle
01-09-08, 07:32 PM
Another sidecar pedicab:
http://cgi.ebay.com/imported-vintage-pohenix-pedicab-bicycle-sidecar-oneoff_W0QQitemZ280190181965QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting that nobody seems to sell these in the US or use them commercially, although they don't seem that uncommon on the used market.
Hey that's exactly the same as my one. :)
My rickshaw's bike is a Phoenix too and all the fittings and the construction method are identical.
I notice in the e.bay auction the vendor talks about freight and shipping. The only way to deal with one of these rickshaws is to go borrow somebody's truck and fetch the thing back yourself. That's what I did and I got it back home safe and sound. These are surprisingly heavy outfits and I wouldn't trust your average freight company Joe to handle it carefully without breaking anything.
http://cgi.ebay.com/imported-vintage-pohenix-pedicab-bicycle-sidecar-oneoff_W0QQitemZ280190181965QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting that nobody seems to sell these in the US or use them commercially, although they don't seem that uncommon on the used market.
Hey that's exactly the same as my one. :)
My rickshaw's bike is a Phoenix too and all the fittings and the construction method are identical.
I notice in the e.bay auction the vendor talks about freight and shipping. The only way to deal with one of these rickshaws is to go borrow somebody's truck and fetch the thing back yourself. That's what I did and I got it back home safe and sound. These are surprisingly heavy outfits and I wouldn't trust your average freight company Joe to handle it carefully without breaking anything.
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