Mountain Biking - Best bang-for-the-buck disc brakes

well, I spent a while with V-Brakes and i've been riding harder and in much wetter conditions than i originally expected myself to.. .and while i dont NEEEEEED the disc brakes, i figure i'm going to upgrade them at one point or the other, so i see no reason to delay the upgrade >=)


so what would you suggest for the best value disc brakes out there?


i dont need super-preformance or super-lightweight... but i dont want chinsey things that weight 25lbs. and will stop less effectivly than my V-Brakes.



thanks.

best performance vs dollar would go to the Avid Mechanicals w/o a doubt

http://pricepoint.com/product6.html




those?

avid mechs

how much more do disc brakes weight than Vs?

Twice as much will you really notice??

Originally posted by urbanking
Twice as much will you really notice??



lol, dont worry i'm not a weight-weenie.




i've come to terms with the fact that while my legs are powering about 210 pounds fowards, the difference between 206 pounds and 212 is nothing :D


i was just curious as to how light they are able to make them

Gotta agree with the Avid Mech's. Another advantage is they are easy to install and adjust. My bike came with Hayes hydraulics, but I would rather have the Avids.

Originally posted by Brennan
Gotta agree with the Avid Mech's. Another advantage is they are easy to install and adjust. My bike came with Hayes hydraulics, but I would rather have the Avids.




can i use my current brake levers with the mechanicals?

That's another great point, Jas. I believe most V-levers will work with Avid Mechs. This is another reason why they are such a cost-effective upgrade. But double check with Avid or your bike shop for compatibility.

anybody know of a good begginers guide to disc brakes sort of write up? explaining maintence.. how the different kinds work, how to use them most effectivly.. etc etc?

Yes, most v-brake levers work with avids. That is one good reason to get them. Other reasons include great stopping power (I got the 205cm rotors with mine from www.beyondbikes.com for the same price as the normal 6" rotors.... I think $70 per brake). The adjustability and installation are also superior to most hydros. They aren't really very heavy, either, although I'm not sure how the weight actually compares to others. I also got the Avid Full Metal Jacket cables for them (~$24) , which reduce cable friction, and make them feel more like hydros. You could get hayes hydros from jenson or pricepoint for about $99, but then you have to buy new shifters at ~$45. If you really need hydros, though, that's probably the best deal for you. I like the avid mechanicals because you don't have to worry about bleeding the fluid and also worrying about the cables getting cut and spurting costic fluid all over your calipers and pads.

At any rate, disc brakes are a very wise investment. You will be very happy you upgraded!!! One thing to keep in mind is that since you do most of your braking with the front brake, you can just upgrade to disc on the front, and leave the rear as V-brake. I actually like this better, because it leaves the rear to be more of a softer braking to finesse around corners better....

i'm considering the front-disc rear-V brake setup, because my front shock has postmounts on it... but i would need an adapter for the rear.



so i figure i'll try the front disc setup first, and if i want to go rear too i will.



i'm a bit worried though.. about noise levels. how bad is squeaking?

Originally posted by JasBike
i'm a bit worried though.. about noise levels. how bad is squeaking?

Will you be using the bike to sneak up on people? ;)

If discs are properly maintained (which doesn't take a lot of time, effort, or money) they should be almost silent, mine are. :)

-Middi-zon

The Avids have a break in period of about 2 or so rides where they squeal, and then are fine. I know a lot of disc brakes (some Maguras in particular) have intense squealing problems all the time.

how loud is the break-in squealing?





what should be done to maintain them to prevent squealing?



(i really hate squealing ;) )

Hey, I am also considering getting disc brakes. For that $70 Avid mechanical kit, what else would we need? Assuming that my levers are still usuable, could someone sum up everything we'd need to buy? thanks!

Hubs, rebuilt wheels, a frame w/ disc mounts

If these weren't such a great deal, I'd also recommend the Avid's, but for a few dollars more you get a hydraulic brake.

Hayes are the ones I use and I love them. After initial set-up they've been maintenance free.

Here's a link:Hayes Hydro's (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product.asp?number=05215)

They come pre-bled and ready to install.

Other things you'll need:

Disc ready hubs or a new wheelset with disc hubs. The latter is probably the best way to go unless you know how to rebuild a wheel and need new spokes anyways (shorter due to larger hub flange) and have a killer rim already. If not, buy a new wheelset as well. There are some pretty good deals for complete wheelsets right now. Just make sure that the rim is "rim brake" compatible if you're going to keep your rear as a vee-brake.

Buy some DAWN dishwashing detergent, and when you clean your bike, scrub your rotors with the Dawn+water. For some reason Cannondale recommended using DAWN to clean their rotors and I've always done it and it works really well.

Some people use Isopropyl Alcohol (Rubbing Alcohol) to clean their rotors, but I just wash my bike with Dawn and scrub the rotors at the same time.

Also, DON'T TOUCH the rotors with your bare hands. The oil on your skin is enough to contaminate the brake pads. What else, if you DO get hydros DON'T squeeze the lever without the wheel/rotor in place.

Besides that, you need to make sure your forks and your frame are "Disc-Ready" if you don't have the disc tabs welded on, you might as well forget upgrading (it'll cost too much) and just buy a new bike. Unless of course, you have some on the forks, but not the frame and keep the rear as a vee-brake.

Personally, I don't like the frame adapters. I've tried a couple and they make the brake "feel" spongy (soft). Plus, they add more weight and are expensive. You can almost buy a new frame for the cost of an adapter (if you shop around).

L8R

Dam those Hayes are a deal! Forgot to mention earlier that Hydraulic brakes are superior to mechanicals in lever feel and stopping power, and IMO they take less maintance since you dont have to worry about stretching the cable, and DAM those hayes are a screaming deal. Personally i have Hope Minis

Heya, I just bought the new Z1 FR fork w/ disc only, so i'm getting a front wheel (mavic 517/xt hub) built at jensonusa.com and I'm still trying to decide on what disc brake to run up front, as i will just be running V in the rear. Is that Hayes disc brake really better than the avid mech?

Also on those Hayes, you have to get a mounting adapter?
These brakes mount directly to Manitou forks. Adapters are needed to mount to other forks using the International Standard mounts and frames using the International Standard mounts.

Ummm, YES! The Avid is probably the Best Mechanical brake and it's performance is almost as good as the hydraulics (probably better than some off brand cheap ones), but the "Feel" doesn't compare to a quality Hydraulic brake.

Plus, it's only $30 more. If you consider the Avid only has the rotor and the caliper, you have to add the cost of a cable ($5 for standard, $20 for Flax Jackets) and then the cost of a lever. They end up having the same cost.

Sure, if you already have a lever then it's cheaper, but let's compare apples and apples.

L8R
L8R

Don't know for sure, but I think the Hayes also come with an adapter for ISO, however, these are OEM take-offs, so you may get them "as-is".

L8R

well i'd like to use my current levers for the sake of simplicity/cost... is there THAT much difference between the mecs and the hydros?

"Is that Hayes disc brake really better than the avid mech?"

I have Hayes Hydros on my bike. The Hayes have smoother operation and better feel. I've never done any kind of comparison test in stopping power, but they are probably slightly better. Still, I would rather have the Avid Mechs. Here's why:

1. After about a month, my left lever was pulling too close to the handlebar. It was actually hitting my knuckles. The only way to fix this was to re-bleed the braking system (a pain). Avids can be adjusted with the levers/cables. Much easier. Also, it is near impossible to get the Hayes levers to pull back evenly (where the lever's inward stop limit is at the same angle to the handlebar).

2. The Hayes sometimes rub slightly, especially after hard braking. This is just the nature of hydro brakes. I had the same problem on my motorcycle. On the Avids, you can easily adjust the pad distance to correct this.

3. If you remove the wheel and accidently sqeeze the brake lever, the pads will be locked closed. To fix this, you have to open the caliper assembly and push them back, then close it up again. Another pain. Mechs don't have this problem.

4. If you have a problem on the trail, it would be much easier to fix the mechs than the hydros.

So, for me, I'd sacrifice a little bit of performance for easier maintenance and lower price. I think of the hydros are more trouble than they are worth.

mechs it is for me for now considering i'll be buying a new bike in 9 months or so.

Yeah, many hydro brakes have problems with squealing, not sure why. I met some Canadian dudes on a trail once that were running Hayes brakes and they were howling like mad. I run Avid mechanicals myself simply because they're powerful, modulate well, and are easy as all hell to install and maintain. I recommend them highly... but I don't recommend using Shimano XTR levers with them... I just didn't like the feel or the lack of modulation.

Careful using your own levers. Lever quility will determine disk qulaity. Overall, avids are a deal, they are lighter than the hydros, more rugged, easier maintenance, and they may not seem like a good price, but when u add in hydro fluid + headaches, its worth it. Besides avids have been known to out perform hayes hydros in both short term and long term

If your brakes are squealing, with either mechanicals or hydros, one of two things are happening. 1. You've contaminated the pads or 2. You've set them up wrong!

Good hydros, have better modulation and a better feel.

Mechanicals feel...umm....well..... more mechanical they're rougher.

I still think I'd rather have the Hayes for $100 than the Avids for $70. But that's just me!

L8R

Yeah, I wish I had better modulation, that's the only thing I dislike. I had XTR v-brakes that were amazing in terms of modulation and being extremely smooth. I miss the modulation, but the discs have so much better power. Might try hydraulics some day... I've heard good things about the XT disc setup as well, and it's only like 100 bucks.

Cheapest I've seen XT's are like $140 for lever, hose (stainless braided), caliper, and rotor.

L8R

I like my hayes, but i contamitaned AND chiped the rear pads so my rears are not as smooth as the fronts that have not been tampered with. but this is my first set of discs.

If we're talking true bang for buck, hayes would win. DIRT cheap (160 cnd) for both. They are great, have new technology, all hayes parts are the same mech and hydraulic, so parts are easy to find. They are reliable and quiet. You could also do the avid front disk rear V, becouse rear disk isnt necessary at all, infavt V's lock easier. So those are more options. Have your made any decisions yet?

About those Shimano's...
Don't you now have to use their hub? I think the rotor is splined now, and designed to only work with their hub...

ONly the new ones. There are two types of rotors, splined and ISO.

L8R

Will i need to get new wheels? spokes.. hubs.. whatever?






annnyway...

i think i'm going to go with the Avid Mechs.


i already have Avid levers on my bike so i'll just keep those.



heres my gameplan for the whole schpeel:



go to my LBS, see if they retail them. ask how much the total cost for having them put on will be (purchase of brakes+labor)

if its considerably cheaper for me to buy them from PricePoint, and bring them into the shop to have installed, i will do that. otherwise i'll just leave the bike there and have them install them.

i'll ride with a Front-Disc Rear-V combo for a while, and see how it is. mabey i'll experiment with an adapter for the rear if i want to see how that feels. i'll most likely just stick with the Front discs because i generally only use my rear brake for fixing my line on a course....




and another random question: why is the front brake on the left hand? i'd much prefer it on the right...

Be prepared to be treated poorly if you buy something online and bring it to a bike shop for installation. I don't even like dealing with the attitude the LBS gives me when I don't buy stuff from them. I saw a Giro E2 helmet in there for 160 bucks... absolutely outrageous. I saw the very same helmet on Pricepoint for 80 bucks. I'd be out of my mind to buy from a LBS if the prices are like that. They quoted me 300 bucks for the Avid discs alone, much less the wheels and other parts. They're the reason I started learning to be my own mechanic. Got tired of paying jacked up prices and getting attitude all the time from them.

will i need a new front wheel?

If your current wheel does not support discs yes you will.

I've bought things on-line etc, my LBS never given me any problems or attitude to install it. I admit about only thing I've had them do is install forks and my Campy 10sp chain once. I got the exact same good service when I bought it there vs buying elsewhere. If I got any attitude from them I would never go back :)

Originally posted by Kev
If your current wheel does not support discs yes you will.

I've bought things on-line etc, my LBS never given me any problems or attitude to install it. I admit about only thing I've had them do is install forks and my Campy 10sp chain once. I got the exact same good service when I bought it there vs buying elsewhere. If I got any attitude from them I would never go back :)




how can i tell if my wheel is compatable?

if the hub has an extension and six little holes on the left side it's compatible. I'd be willing to bet your wheels arent disc compatible

Originally posted by urbanking
Careful using your own levers. Lever quility will determine disk qulaity. Overall, avids are a deal, they are lighter than the hydros, more rugged, easier maintenance, and they may not seem like a good price, but when u add in hydro fluid + headaches, its worth it. Besides avids have been known to out perform hayes hydros in both short term and long term

if you add the weight of levers avids are heavier that even the heaviest of hydro's. unless you get the avid ultimates, but paying that much for levers is borderline insanity. you could get awesome hydro's for the same price as that combo.

Avids are heavy.. that's my one gripe.

Originally posted by JasBike
Will i need to get new wheels? spokes.. hubs.. whatever?






annnyway...

i think i'm going to go with the Avid Mechs.


i already have Avid levers on my bike so i'll just keep those.



heres my gameplan for the whole schpeel:



go to my LBS, see if they retail them. ask how much the total cost for having them put on will be (purchase of brakes+labor)

if its considerably cheaper for me to buy them from PricePoint, and bring them into the shop to have installed, i will do that. otherwise i'll just leave the bike there and have them install them.

i'll ride with a Front-Disc Rear-V combo for a while, and see how it is. mabey i'll experiment with an adapter for the rear if i want to see how that feels. i'll most likely just stick with the Front discs because i generally only use my rear brake for fixing my line on a course....




and another random question: why is the front brake on the left hand? i'd much prefer it on the right...

the avids are goin to be about $140 from your lbs. If i were you i would hunt for some shimano deore 525s on the net i think you can find them for 140 for front and rear, they work great and replacement parts are cheap. they have maintainence free since i've had them and they were cheap.

if you need to change hubs and all, you may want to consider a package deal on new wheels and disks. wheelworld.com has a deal for $299. you get mavic 223 rims with shimano deore disc hubs and the avid mechanical disc brakes. just an option to look at.