Framebuilders - Propane/MAPP + Oxy torch setup

I was just given a bernzomatic propane/mapp + oxy torch. I tried it with just the propane (haven't bought a mapp bottle for it yet) and the propane flame just shoots out like a lighter turned up too high. If I give it more fuel then the flame just goes further from the torch tip until it actually blows itself out.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

What am I doing wrong?

.

Playing with volatile fuels without proper instruction and safety awareness.

How informative. Anyone else?

If you were properly informed you would know in a gas set there is an ignition fuel and a heat fuel.

At least read a book before you start messing around with it. Sorry if I sound short but industry has education programs for this sort of thing for good reason.

I have read. It isn't made clear that you have to have both to make it work. I read my welders handbook and it didn't mention that you have to have both fuels to make it work. See as how there are propane only and mapp only torches along with mapp/propane+oxy setups, I did not see that there is a distinction where you HAVE to use the oxy in order to make the flame burn right. Sorry for being so ignorant on the subject but I've read as much as I can on the subject.

Instead of acting like such an elitist and telling me how ignorant I am, you can offer some guidance. I'm not saying that you ARE elitist, but your response was anything but informative. Your second one did at least hint at the problem and I appreciate that.

peace out.

darn!

In answer to the OP, the torch only works with both the 02 and the MAPP flowing. Crack the MAPP until you can just hear the hiss, light with a striker (not an open flame), adjust the sooty yellow flame to about four inches long -- make sure the flame is in contact with the nozzle -- and then ever-so-gently crack the 02 (it's easy to blow out the flame with too much 02) until the flame turns from orange and "loose" to yellow and focused, with a short cone of blue at the nozzle.

And to bikejack -- I understand your point, but the Bernz-o-matic oxy/MAPP is sold "over the counter" at Wal-Mart. It's intended for use by laypeople. The suggestion that attempting to use one without "industry training" is a bit of overkill, IMO.

HEY, didn't realise this was still kicking around.

Over the counter the sets are sold complete and with instructions.

QUOTE " I was just given a bernzomatic propane/mapp + oxy torch. I tried it with just the propane".

I don't think its elitist or over the top or overkill to advise someone that its not safe to "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes" when your dealing with flammable compressed gases.

I have to add that I tire quickly of critics who can't read thoroughly, Six Jours I pointed out that industry has training I did not recommend industry level training.

Quite the charmer, aren't you.

I was going to lecture you about constructive vs. non-constructive methods of communication, but then came to realize how pointless that would be. Some people apparently aren't here to be constructive.

I realize the OP is probably long gone, but since no one really answered his question, I though I'd try in case others are looking for a cheap repair option.

There are at least 3 bernzo rigs, I've used two of them to braze.

One uses mapp + o2. Expensive to use due to cost of bernzo o2. Goes thru 3-4 bottles o2 to one of mapp. My Lowes sells mapp for $5 a bottle, o2 for $8. Gas valves are sloppy/ sensitive, tough to get it set just right. O2 blows out the mapp flame. Relight, adjust, try again. Plus the settings change slightly as the torch warms up. It's a real test of your patience to use this torch. Torch produces a pencil tip size flame (smallest of 3 options i'm describing). Can't change tips on a bernzo.

Another uses mapp + atmospheric o2, i.e. air. You can still braze with it - it's not as hot as the previous option but will still braze bronze, brass and ni-ag rods. And obviously Ag. Easier to use than mapp+o2, much less expensive too. Bigger flame, larger area affected.

Third uses propane and air. Its a little cooler than previous option but will still work for brazing. Also has benefit of not smelling like a pig farm.

Bernzo rigs are good for hobby use, small jobs, anything where you can't justify hundreds of dollars of equipment. They work well for mounting and removing braze-ons. I have not attempted any basic frame building, since this requires a lot more than just a bernzo torch.

If I were doing it over again, I'd just use a propane rig and Ag. It takes a long time to melt the bronze, brass and ni-ag. All that heat is detrimental to the steel.

I've used both the oxy/MAPP and the MAPP/air, and I agree with most of what Seeker says. The oxy/MAPP is kind of pointless. The MAPP/air works fine for silver brazing, including for complete frames. I haven't used oxy/acetylene and don't doubt that it's superior in just about every way, but for my backyard framebuilding, MAPP/air has done the job.

hook oxygen to one side, not mapp on one side and propane on the other

hook oxygen to one side, not mapp on one side and propane on the other

That's impossible to do with the bernzomatic mapp+o2 torch.

The o2 side is left hand threaded - only bernzo o2 will fit.

Quite the charmer, aren't you.

I was going to lecture you about constructive vs. non-constructive methods of communication, but then came to realize how pointless that would be. Some people apparently aren't here to be constructive.


Maybe the charm wears off with age when you see the results and damage from too many backyard framebuilders and mechanics.

You can save your lecture (and take the tickets off yourself). Constructive is a bit of an ambigous term, do you mean it as affectively getting the message across or as treading gently so as not to offend those whose stupidity is grossly offensive? I can assure you that cowboys can never be told with a rational explanation.

"Affectively (sic) getting the message across" is close enough. If you were genuinely concerned about the guy's safety, you would have phrased things so that there was some possibility of him paying attention to you.

"run it up the flagpole and see who salutes" when your dealing with flammable compressed gases."

It's all at atmospheric pressure when it hits the flame or so one hopes. Flamable gas, use it every day to heat water for my tea.

If you were genuinely concerned about the guy's safety, you would have phrased things so that there was some possibility of him paying attention to you.

Exactly. You could have the cure for cancer, aids, world hunger and environmental degradation but if come off like a f****** a****** when you share it with the world, no on is going to listen.

It may be pointless but, I would check out your local trade schools for a night class in basic welding, I did this many years ago and learned the right way, well, I havnt blown myself up yet!

Don

Seeker, are you saying that bike brazing can be done with a simple propane torch? Or is there some sort of forced carburation going on?

Like, you're not talking about a Prestolite torch, right? Or are you? Can you point to some brands (other than Bernzomatic, which seems like it might be shoddy, given the discussion here)?