Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - "Fat Gene?" Thnk Again

http://fumento.com/julyfat.html

This incredible growth of the national girth belies everyone's favorite excuse, genes. Gene pools don't change within a single generation.

Blaming genes for one's own obesity is also a red herring. Yes, a few such genes affecting metabolism have been found, but they count for almost nothing. One, for example, has been shown to reduce a person's calorie-burning by the equivalent of a butterscotch disk a day.

While a lack of exercise and lifestyle issues explains why we've gotten fat, there's no doubt that genetics play a role in body shape and the ability to put on fat. It's easiest to see in certain genetic populations such as the Pima indians or Polynesians. That doesn't mean you can't lose weight, but there's no denying some people have a much easier time than others in keeping it off in the first place. Moreover, there is extensive support for the theory that genetics make some people far more likely to develop heart disease, diabetes and other ailments. Make these people fatter and they're even more likely to run into trouble. Other people carry their fat completely differently and seem to be able to put on weight without as much risk to their health. The research on all these topics is ongoing. That doesn't mean genetics don't play a role in obesity or disease. Frankly Fumento sounds a bit like a flat earther in denying the role of genes, though it looks like the article is seven years old.


About 300,000 Americans die prematurely each year from being overweight.

I challenge Fumento or anyone else to show me a death certificate that says ANYONE has died from being overweight. According to my BMI I should be dead, not cycling a hundred miles a week. Some of us are just huge. I actually found a whole new muscle in my leg this morning I could use to kick Fumento.

The fact still remains that in general, Americans and other developed countries have put on a ton of weight within the last 20 or so years and there is no way that this can be related to genes. It takes many generations for genes to shift dramatically like this. As far as challenging Fumento to show a death certificate with the cause of obesity, that's a stupid thing to ask. I challenge you to show me a death certificate listing "car accident." The car didn't actually kill the person, their neck breaking did.

Why is there no way this can be related to genes? If everyone is active and junk food is scarce, most people will not be fat simply because there's not much junk food and they have physically active lives. The genetic problems only present themselves when the population is exposed to massive amounts of high-calorie food for very little money and lifestyles shift from active manufacturing and farming to sedentary computer-based and sales jobs. In that environment some genetic groups will literally explode, while others seem to be less effected by the changes. To cite the Pimas again, for most of history the notion that the Pimas had an obesity gene would be laughable. There were no fat Pimas. It was absurd. But when that population, reared for ages on a lean diet of maize, beans and bushmeat, was exposed to super high calorie junk food and lots of it they almost all got fat. Likewise with many islanders. To point fingers at such people as Fumento does and argue it's just because they're lazy is pretty obscene. Reading his articles I can sure see why so many people hate his guts.

You can see these patterns yourself. Some native groups here seem to be much less effected by high calorie diets than others. I've rarely seen a pure blooded Yupik or Inupiat who's obese, contray to the myth of the fat esquimaux. Those who are, like Big Bob, tend to stand out and are of mixed blood (Big Bob is part Irish). They still tend to suffer from serious health problems such as diabetes and heart disease, but these are related to the bottle not the chips. I've seen dead and passed out Eskimos in the parks around town, but I've never seen a fat one. The fact that their genetic group developed eating a MEGA high fat diet, arguably the highest fat diet in the known universe, may have something to do with their ability to avoid binging on fatty junk food. But all of this needs to be studied a great deal more.


As far as challenging Fumento to show a death certificate with the cause of obesity, that's a stupid thing to ask.

No, it's a perfectly valid challenge to a very sloppy assertion. Fumento *****es a lot about how science journalists need to be precise. Well claiming people "die from obesity" is not precise. If he wants to be scientific, he needs to break it down by actual cause of death. You can be healthy and obese, though Fumento doesn't seem to comprehend that. By the same token, you can be thin and a health nightmare.

We are at such a point now though that genetic difference don't really matter. Even if those wih "bad genes" are fatter than those with "good genes," both sets of people are still fat. Even if I agree with your genetic argument, which I don't, there isn't a whole lot in the way of fixing things here. Good job, you stated the problem. I don't see a solution anywhere though in your argument. The only real solution is to change back into that active ilfestyle and NOT eat all of the crappy food that got you unhealthy in the first place.

Okay I must be the dissent, my good man. While the vast majority of people's weight issues have nothing at all to do with genetics, there are some who do. I have a good friend who literally eats everything in sight, but can't even GAIN weight. I saw the guy once eat a family sized microwave lasagne, then go with us to a Chinese buffet two hours later - and devour it. He could put down more than us "big guys" could. Yet, he weighs like 120 when wet.

Then again, I have seen others who thought they were like that, but didn't realize activity in their daily lives had a great portion to play in it.

And counterpoint, I've seen a person who works their tail off, eats next to nothing, but CANNOT lose weight. Unless they are lying through their teeth - which I doubt - there is no explanation other than genetics as to why they can't lose any weight.

But what can you do to fix genetics? Nothing.

What can you do to fix a sedentary lifestyle and binging on bad food? A ton.

Yet another dessentor here. I think that there is a definite genetic component, and it is not related only to a simple calories in, calories out formula. It has a lot more to do with how genetics impact our BEHAVIOR. Why do some families have more drug addicts and alcoholics? There has also been significant research into twins brought up by different families. Despite being brought up in different house-holds, they still have a much higher chance of being more alike with respect to things like pessimism/optimisim, obesity/athleticism, risk-taking/rule-conforming, etc. than the rest of us. There simply IS a genetic component to behavior.

That is not to say that I think that it should be used as an excuse at all. You are still responsible for what you do with your life. Almost everyone has some "genetic" issue or another. Diabetics and people that are allergic to things also have to watch what they eat more than other people. People that sweat more than others have to stay hydrated. People that naturally like to take physical risks have to manage that urge accordingly (think skydiving versus drug dealing). People with bi-polar tendencies have to watch to see if what they are feeling is the result of outside or internal forces. You get the idea. Most people have a few problems, but they learn to manage them.

The other argument that I have for the pro-genetic component, is that humans have only had to worry about being obese on a population-level for less than 100 or so years. This is true even in the west. For millions of years, humans JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE starved to death pretty regularly. The people that pigged out when the food was around, tended to have more fat on them to live off of when there was a famine. Those people had more kids than the skinnier people with fewer fat reserves. People outside of the tropics used to lose a lot of their fat reserves by the end of each winter, and almost all of it during really lean times. It just makes sense that people that put on weight and keep it on would have a genetic advantage in an environment where food availability was sometimes problematic.

Sorry for the rant.

Have fun out there!

. . . I challenge you to show me a death certificate listing "car accident." The car didn't actually kill the person, their neck breaking did.

That reminds me of the old saw, "Any death can be said to have been from heart failure!"

That is not to say that I think that it should be used as an excuse at all. You are still responsible for what you do with your life. Almost everyone has some "genetic" issue or another. Diabetics and people that are allergic to things also have to watch what they eat more than other people. People that sweat more than others have to stay hydrated. People that naturally like to take physical risks have to manage that urge accordingly (think skydiving versus drug dealing). People with bi-polar tendencies have to watch to see if what they are feeling is the result of outside or internal forces. You get the idea. Most people have a few problems, but they learn to manage them.


Exactly, we are still responsible for what we choose to do, no one forces us to eat, no one forces us to gain weight. I think that there are some who will face a bigger challenge that others, but you are still free to choose, and we need to be responsible for what we choose to do.

We are at such a point now though that genetic difference don't really matter. Even if those wih "bad genes" are fatter than those with "good genes," both sets of people are still fat. Even if I agree with your genetic argument, which I don't, there isn't a whole lot in the way of fixing things here. Good job, you stated the problem. I don't see a solution anywhere though in your argument. The only real solution is to change back into that active ilfestyle and NOT eat all of the crappy food that got you unhealthy in the first place.

In order to know how to fix a problem, you have to know what's causing it. I agree that at this point the best solution is lifestyle changes esp. more (MUCH more) exercise. People who come from genetic backgrounds where obesity is common need to be extra careful, esp. where that obesity leads to diseases. Just as someone from a family where most men die of a specific kind of cancer may be able to take proactive steps to be sure to avoid the risk factors leading to that kind of cancer.

I would also disagree with those who claim "obesity" per se is the problem. Obesity may be a risk factor or it may be a symptom, but to simply claim anyone who is overweight is looking at "death from obesity" mischaracterizes the statistics and creates a false problem. This is esp. true when "obesity" is defined by such crude measures as BMI that categorize both fit but large people in the same class as complete couch spuds. In order to have really useful data, we would need to know such factors as blood pressure and physical ability.


Exactly, we are still responsible for what we choose to do

Obviously, on an individual level each person must consider their own health issues including their weight. But when you start throwing terms such as "responsibility" around it starts to sound less and less like science. I'm not arguing people should simply give up because of genetics. I don't know anyone who is. But more knowledge is always better than less when it comes to health. So I'm very interested in learning what extent genetics plays a role, and exactly *how* it plays a role. There's so much we don't understand about these matters. For example, there are theories about how the G-I system has a "brain" of its own, after a fashion. The nervous ganglia that interlace the stomach and gut actually seem to play a direct role in how we eat. It's clearly silly to say your stomach made you eat something, but then again if a simple operation to force this nervous sub-system to rewire itself will help curtail your desire to eat, then what's the problem? Why do people constantly try to place some moral or even religious overtones on this debate? Instead of a matter of medical science it becomes a matter of "willpower" and "responsibility."

In order to know how to fix a problem, you have to know what's causing it. I agree that at this point the best solution is lifestyle changes esp. more (MUCH more) exercise. People who come from genetic backgrounds where obesity is common need to be extra careful, esp. where that obesity leads to diseases. Just as someone from a family where most men die of a specific kind of cancer may be able to take proactive steps to be sure to avoid the risk factors leading to that kind of cancer.

I would also disagree with those who claim "obesity" per se is the problem. Obesity may be a risk factor or it may be a symptom, but to simply claim anyone who is overweight is looking at "death from obesity" mischaracterizes the statistics and creates a false problem. This is esp. true when "obesity" is defined by such crude measures as BMI that categorize both fit but large people in the same class as complete couch spuds. In order to have really useful data, we would need to know such factors as blood pressure and physical ability.

I can tell you what's causing the problem. It's the fact that this country lives on fast food and convenience food instead of a cooking and actual meal that you have get all the ingredients for yourself. And even if you aren't predisposed to obesity, you still need to watch what you eat. You could weigh 180 pounds as a 6' guy and have blood of the same consistency of molasses. Fast food is killing America, and everyone wants to go and blame genetics.

As far as not claiming obesity is the problem, you could then make a very similar argument for smoking. Of course, in the case of smoking you would be wrong. Overweight, sedentary people are by and large unhealthy. You can sit there and blame genetics and try to find the best way to characterize the problem, but the problem will still remain and nothing will be solved. I see no point in sitting there and trying to figure out the genetic underlyings of these issues when everyone knows that there is a way to fix this problem. I will be willing to bet that there is no genetic condition related to obesity that cannot be overcome with diet and exercise.

Joe, you're right about that, but having the knowledge is a tool. If you know of a tendency, due to heritability of a specific issue which can contribute to obesity, then you have another tool to deal with it, either through diet and exercise, or through surgery if your weight has gotten as high as mine had, thereby precluding meaningful exercise, or use of replacement hormones if your endocrine system is not functioning within normal parameters.

None of us on the forum here are saying that this is an excuse, but it can be a reason, which can be overcome as long as you have the knowledge and use it to your benefit. The choice is theirs though as to whether this is a tool, or an enabling excuse. I chose the tool aspect, personally.;)
I can tell you what's causing the problem. It's the fact that this country lives on fast food and convenience food instead of a cooking and actual meal that you have get all the ingredients for yourself. And even if you aren't predisposed to obesity, you still need to watch what you eat. You could weigh 180 pounds as a 6' guy and have blood of the same consistency of molasses. Fast food is killing America, and everyone wants to go and blame genetics.

As far as not claiming obesity is the problem, you could then make a very similar argument for smoking. Of course, in the case of smoking you would be wrong. Overweight, sedentary people are by and large unhealthy. You can sit there and blame genetics and try to find the best way to characterize the problem, but the problem will still remain and nothing will be solved. I see no point in sitting there and trying to figure out the genetic underlyings of these issues when everyone knows that there is a way to fix this problem. I will be willing to bet that there is no genetic condition related to obesity that cannot be overcome with diet and exercise.

Overweight, sedentary people are by and large unhealthy.

Where are you getting that from? Again, this is where you need to be SPECIFIC. What the studies actually tell us is that people who have a BMI over a certain amount seem to be more prone to XYZ diseases which lead to death a certain number of years below the average. This tells us only what it tells us, and does not prove obesity causes death or some such nonsense.

You've also mixed two distinct issues--overweight (whatever that is) and sedentary.


You can sit there and blame genetics

Wait--who is BLAMING genetics? I'm trying to get away from blame, responsibility, guilt, penance , and other religious and legal concepts. It's about UNDERSTANDING the problem so you can reach an informed and useful solution. We are a long ways from that point.

Fast food is simply that--fast food. It's been around in one form or another since the days when the first street vendors started selling snacks to guys in togas. There's nothing per se evil about it, but again mixed in with your argument is the notion that if we only go back to the old way of cooking our own food (hearth, home, mom, Beaver, Opie, etc.) we won't be fat anymore. This is not a rational argument. I've eaten home cooked meals that have more fat content than anything at McD's. Traditional farm cooking carries enough caloric value to keep a tour de france racer going. You could just as easily blame the cars that take people to the drive-thru. If blame is the goal there's plenty to go around, but that gets us no closer to understanding exactly why we're seeing the trends we're seeing, and what can be done about it.

Okay I must be the dissent, my good man. While the vast majority of people's weight issues have nothing at all to do with genetics, there are some who do. I have a good friend who literally eats everything in sight, but can't even GAIN weight. I saw the guy once eat a family sized microwave lasagne, then go with us to a Chinese buffet two hours later - and devour it. He could put down more than us "big guys" could. Yet, he weighs like 120 when wet.

Then again, I have seen others who thought they were like that, but didn't realize activity in their daily lives had a great portion to play in it.

And counterpoint, I've seen a person who works their tail off, eats next to nothing, but CANNOT lose weight. Unless they are lying through their teeth - which I doubt - there is no explanation other than genetics as to why they can't lose any weight.

When people work their tails off and then eat next to nothing that is a problem.. The body will go into starvation mode and try and store as much fat as possible.. That is why you want to eat small meals every two hours or so.. Keep the metabolism going.. You can't just simply stop eating and KEEP ON losing weight.. It will be mostly the weight you don't want to drop.. ie muscle and you will plateau fairly quickly..

Where are you getting that from? Again, this is where you need to be SPECIFIC. What the studies actually tell us is that people who have a BMI over a certain amount seem to be more prone to XYZ diseases which lead to death a certain number of years below the average. This tells us only what it tells us, and does not prove obesity causes death or some such nonsense.

I'm getting that from common sense and from what I have seen happen around me. I apologize if it is not scientific enough for you, although being scientific in this regard was never my plan. I think that it is pretty common knowledge that the more fat you have on your body, the more prone you are to life- and lifestyle-threatening conditions. I'm not just talking about 20 pounds either. My main focus in all of my arguments has been those who are significantly overweight. To me that means a significant amount of extra "padding." I don't feel it's useful for the depth of this thread to get into the finer points of exactly what is overweight.


You've also mixed two distinct issues--overweight (whatever that is) and sedentary.

I did that purposefully in order to avoid confusion abuot exactly which demographic I was referring to.


Wait--who is BLAMING genetics? I'm trying to get away from blame, responsibility, guilt, penance , and other religious and legal concepts. It's about UNDERSTANDING the problem so you can reach an informed and useful solution. We are a long ways from that point.

I was under the impression that you were... It's hard to gauge things on the internet though. As far as understanding the problem goes however, I still don't get why the main focus in society is not diet and exercise. Like I said before, find me an example where diet and exercise is possible and it DOESN'T work. Right now, I feel that the weight problem in the West is beyond simple genetics. Once we get that problem reined in a little, then we can discuss the finer points of genetics. To put it another way, diet and exercise (or lack thereof) is having a first order effect, whereas genetics are having a second order effect. I hope that explains my stance.


Fast food is simply that--fast food. It's been around in one form or another since the days when the first street vendors started selling snacks to guys in togas. There's nothing per se evil about it, but again mixed in with your argument is the notion that if we only go back to the old way of cooking our own food (hearth, home, mom, Beaver, Opie, etc.) we won't be fat anymore. This is not a rational argument. I've eaten home cooked meals that have more fat content than anything at McD's. Traditional farm cooking carries enough caloric value to keep a tour de france racer going. You could just as easily blame the cars that take people to the drive-thru. If blame is the goal there's plenty to go around, but that gets us no closer to understanding exactly why we're seeing the trends we're seeing, and what can be done about it.

I'm making a generalization here that I probably shouldn't have with "fast food." By the most intuitive of definitions, fast food can be healthy. Fast food as it is defined today doesn't necessarily mean food that doesn't take long to get. In this society it has come more to mean unhealthy food that is replacing healthy food because of it's convenience.

I brought up the cooking yourself argument because if you make your own food, you know what is going into it so it is easier to fix your problem areas.

Exactly, we are still responsible for what we choose to do, no one forces us to eat, no one forces us to gain weight. I think that there are some who will face a bigger challenge that others, but you are still free to choose, and we need to be responsible for what we choose to do.
You know. I really wish that one of two things would happen.
1) For those of us who wanted something balanced that we could just eat and it would fill us up and have the right calories depending on our daily activities. Drinking water and chewing on a cardboard tasting bar is fine with me.
2) I had control over my digestive system. I mean I'm FAT already I'm not going to starve anytime soon damn you intestines/stomach/whatever. If I eat that donut and I have 80lbs of fat on my body well just pass it on through thank you very much. Take what you need and ditch the rest. I don't need another 500 calories of fat stored somewhere. I know then everyone would be a stick or whatever hte latest fashion was.. But you'd think genetically there would be some kind of threshold where the body would stop storing fat or something.

You know. I really wish that one of two things would happen.
1) For those of us who wanted something balanced that we could just eat and it would fill us up and have the right calories depending on our daily activities. Drinking water and chewing on a cardboard tasting bar is fine with me.
2) I had control over my digestive system. I mean I'm FAT already I'm not going to starve anytime soon damn you intestines/stomach/whatever. If I eat that donut and I have 80lbs of fat on my body well just pass it on through thank you very much. Take what you need and ditch the rest. I don't need another 500 calories of fat stored somewhere. I know then everyone would be a stick or whatever hte latest fashion was.. But you'd think genetically there would be some kind of threshold where the body would stop storing fat or something.

Your first issue just sounds like you need to plan calories, nothing special has to happen. If it's going to be a low activity day, don't have a lot, and vice versa for high activity days.

As far as your last statement in your final issue, the body doesn't have that threshold because in our thousands of years of evolution, we haven't had to worry abou OVEReating. Now we do though, and we just haven't given Mother Nature time to adapt.

Your first issue just sounds like you need to plan calories, nothing special has to happen. If it's going to be a low activity day, don't have a lot, and vice versa for high activity days.

As far as your last statement in your final issue, the body doesn't have that threshold because in our thousands of years of evolution, we haven't had to worry abou OVEReating. Now we do though, and we just haven't given Mother Nature time to adapt.

Well for my first wish planning calories isn't my problem. It is the organization and preparing of said calories. What I'd like is to do is be able to live off of odwalla superfood bars. Just eat however many I'd need given my activity level and activity type that day. If I lift weights I may need their protien bar that day to replace a superfood one but that is as far as I'd like to go.

As far as my second wish. Yeah I realize that mother nature might not adapt till it's too late but I wonder if they won't do something through some good old genetic engineering before that happens. I figure genetically engineered reprocessed food stuffs would happen first though.

Genetics may not cause obesity but somehow genetics or something else seem to prevent obesity.
My wife for years just ate tons of the worst highest fat, high fructose crap "food" known to mankind and barely lived above sedentary and when home was completely sedentary. She is light for 5'2".
I eat healthy, balanced, calorie correct and burn more calories with exercise in a day then she is supposed to be eating overall and I struggle to stay below 300.
Maybe there is a magic food that passes through people :D Somehow she can eat a 5lb bag of smarties and a pack of starburst between supersize mcdonalds meals and be unaffected. Maybe there is something in that Diet Coke ;)

That's just the other end of the spectrum, genetically......

On the flip side, you could survive a famine longer.

If you don't know that you have a problem, or don't recognize it for some reason, and you try to eat like the rest of your freinds during social situations, you can become obese very quickly. Behavior is the key here. It is hard for some people to control their eating behavior. They often use food to dampen strong emotions, and their bodies get used to and even consider processing massive amounts of calories as "normal".

If we could all put ourselves on strict food, exercise, and education plans, then everyone here would have PhDs and ride like Lance Armstrong. They would just "will it so", and the whole world would fall into place accordingly. That does not happen in real life. There is a lot of genetic variation out there...how much of your brains, fitness, how you process information (engineer/mathmetician, artist, introverted, extroverted, etc.) is due to genetics, and how much is due to environment/nurturuing? Hell, the experts don't know yet.

So...I think that there is a definite genetic component to it. I think that a LARGE percentage of the population has the potential for easily becoming obese. I think that most people are not informed about that pre-disposition, and don't want to admit that they are not "normal", so they don't deal with it, or they try 10,000 quick-fixes that don't address the metabolic issues that can help them control their behavior (keeping blood sugar kind of even during all waking hours, working out, etc.).

I'm blathering. I'll stop now.

It's funny you mention phds and Lance Armstrong, since I am currently on my way to get my phd and also would like to be able to do centuries and such a la Lance Armstrong. :p

Same here! Shooting for a PhD in Psych and I already do century + rides.;)

There is some truth to the genetic disposition argument. Both a sister and a cousin are obese and have a very difficult time countering it. It seems their bodies have a hard time obtaining the nutrients the body wants and if they do not eat the amount of food required their bodies let them know it in a bad way. My cousin had gastric bypass and stomach stapling surgery to assist her and now she is very close to her ideal weight. She is also a very large boned tuetonic lady. My sister had results early in life with original incarnation of the low carb high protein diet but it left her continually famished and her energy levels were comparable. Also modern food is grown to look good and has lost an enourmous amount of nutrition in the process, catch 22. A couple of examples: the Red Delicious apple no longer has any taste and used to look like the McIntosh; Iceberg lettuce has no nutritional value anymore, it just looks good (I discovered this when I worked at Giant Food).

While a lack of exercise and lifestyle issues explains why we've gotten fat, there's no doubt that genetics play a role in body shape and the ability to put on fat. It's easiest to see in certain genetic populations such as the Pima indians or Polynesians. That doesn't mean you can't lose weight, but there's no denying some people have a much easier time than others in keeping it off in the first place. Moreover, there is extensive support for the theory that genetics make some people far more likely to develop heart disease, diabetes and other ailments. Make these people fatter and they're even more likely to run into trouble. Other people carry their fat completely differently and seem to be able to put on weight without as much risk to their health. The research on all these topics is ongoing. That doesn't mean genetics don't play a role in obesity or disease. Frankly Fumento sounds a bit like a flat earther in denying the role of genes, though it looks like the article is seven years old.


Fumento doesn't deny that metabolism has a genetic factor. He points out it's used - and overused - as an excuse.

I guess that's the core of my problem with his articles. On the one hand he complains that science journalists are sloppy, and on the other he approaches weight gain with facile quasi-religious concepts such as "excuse." I think we need to get beyond excuse, blame, guilt and all the other baggage. It solves nothing, and only ends up giving millions of people eating disorders. It is at base a problem caused by a combination of genetics and environment. The solution lies in fully understanding how those factors interact with our digestive systems and higher brain functions. Just telling people to buckle down and exercise more hasn't worked and won't work. It's like yelling at the tide for coming in.

I guess that's the core of my problem with his articles. On the one hand he complains that science journalists are sloppy, and on the other he approaches weight gain with facile quasi-religious concepts such as "excuse." I think we need to get beyond excuse, blame, guilt and all the other baggage. It solves nothing, and only ends up giving millions of people eating disorders. It is at base a problem caused by a combination of genetics and environment. The solution lies in fully understanding how those factors interact with our digestive systems and higher brain functions. Just telling people to buckle down and exercise more hasn't worked and won't work. It's like yelling at the tide for coming in.

Well, my tide has gone out through better eating and exercise. In fact I'm down another pound, to 242 from a starting weight of 385. So I respectfully, but firmly, disagree with you.

I guess that's the core of my problem with his articles. On the one hand he complains that science journalists are sloppy, and on the other he approaches weight gain with facile quasi-religious concepts such as "excuse." I think we need to get beyond excuse, blame, guilt and all the other baggage. It solves nothing, and only ends up giving millions of people eating disorders. It is at base a problem caused by a combination of genetics and environment. The solution lies in fully understanding how those factors interact with our digestive systems and higher brain functions. Just telling people to buckle down and exercise more hasn't worked and won't work. It's like yelling at the tide for coming in.

+10

I think we need to get beyond excuse, blame, guilt and all the other baggage. It solves nothing, and only ends up giving millions of people eating disorders.

I think we need more guilt and blame! If someone looked at you like you were kicking a puppy every time you ordered a Baconator (http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp?family=1&product=4) then very few of us would have let our bodies get so fat. Self indulgence is the product of a soft weak corrupt society.

edit: meant to link to the nutrition info. http://www.wendys.com/food/Nutrition.jsp

Exercise, by far, isn't the cure-all. I know one person who got frustrated and gave up cycling after he couldn't lose more than a pound in a month. He spent over an hour a night on the bicycle sweating and weezing, for two months with no gain.

He also wouldn't give up his McDonald's for lunch, four liters of Mountain Dew a day, or cases of beer on the weekend. Shock and awe erupted that he didn't lose any weight.

I have a relative who loves food, and likes his build even if it is overweight. So he eats whatever he wants, but walks his dog for 5 miles a night. He loses nor gains nothing, but maintains while shoving whatever he wants down his throat.

I hate to say it, but this country needs a wake-up call all around. There is not one cure-all, but rather a series of them that begin with a change in how food is viewed.

The fact still remains that in general, Americans and other developed countries have put on a ton of weight within the last 20 or so years and there is no way that this can be related to genes. It takes many generations for genes to shift dramatically like this. As far as challenging Fumento to show a death certificate with the cause of obesity, that's a stupid thing to ask. I challenge you to show me a death certificate listing "car accident." The car didn't actually kill the person, their neck breaking did.

I think you need to scratch the "other developed countries" bit from your list. I think you'd be hard pressed to find another first world country with the obesity epidemic that we have in the USA.

A little background on me, I am a recovering alcoholic (14.5 years sober), an ex-nicotine addict and former Uber-Clyde. I am fairly certain there's something in my genetic makeup that tends to give me an addictive personality. With that said the only solution to the genetics I was born with is working to overcome the genes there is not a magic fix.

Over the last four years I've been quite active on weight loss forums. I have noticed one common denominator for people who are successful with weight loss. The commonality among successful losers and maintainers is a controlled calorie diet and consistent exercise neither alone seem sufficient for long-term success.

Often I see statements such as the following:


It solves nothing, and only ends up giving millions of people eating disorders. It is at base a problem caused by a combination of genetics and environment. The solution lies in fully understanding how those factors interact with our digestive systems and higher brain functions. Just telling people to buckle down and exercise more hasn't worked and won't work. It's like yelling at the tide for coming in.”

In general the reason advice such as exercising and controlling food intake does not work is people don't actually control their food intake and exercise regularly for a sustained period of time.

I don't pretend the diet weight loss is easy or that there's a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone. There is no solution that does not involve controlling caloric intake and regular exercise. There is no shortcut, at some point in the future there may be some medical breakthrough that simplifies the process. Any drug strong enough to have a material impact on our metabolism is likely to have some pretty frightening side effects. Honestly without long-term changes in our behavior any medication that facilitate weight loss would be like blood pressure medication in that it will have to be taken every day for life.

None of us who are substantially overweight got this way because we carefully watched what we ate and exercised regularly. I think we all know at least at some level that it was our eating and inactivity that allowed us to gain this weight. Yes, there are a limited number of people with metabolic disorders or on medication that put their weight gain almost totally beyond their control. The number of people that fall in this category is startlingly small. When 60% of US population is overweight up 30% in the last 20 years this is something beyond simple genetics this is obviously a behavioral change in the population.

All of this is a long way of saying that while there may be a genetic component to weight gain and weight loss it does not change what must be done to actually lose the weight.

I think we need more guilt and blame! If someone looked at you like you were kicking a puppy every time you ordered a Baconator (http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp?family=1&product=4) then very few of us would have let our bodies get so fat. Self indulgence is the product of a soft weak corrupt society.

edit: meant to link to the nutrition info. http://www.wendys.com/food/Nutrition.jsp

+1 !!

My fiancee and I are slowly working towards breaking our children of the societal conditioning that has happened to even a 6 and 4 year old. And it's working, slowly but surely, they are finding that healthy choices taste better.

Now, if we could only get someone to start a HEALTHY fast food chain that catered to children. McDonald's does have healthy choices now (I prefer the Southwest salad with grilled chicken and balsamic dressing, with a side order of the fruit and nut salad), but none that appeal to children. Why not have a grilled chicken and fruit happy meal? I mean seriously.. why not?

I think you need to scratch the "other developed countries" bit from your list. I think you'd be hard pressed to find another first world country with the obesity epidemic that we have in the USA.



UK Obesity Statistics
Trends in Overweight and Obesity
About 46% of men in England and 32% of women are overweight (a body mass index of 25-30 kg/m2), and an additional 17% of men and 21% of women are obese (a body mass index of more than 30 kg/m2 ).

Overweight and obesity increase with age. About 28% of men and 27% of women aged 16-24 are overweight or obese but 76% of men and 68% of women aged 55-64 are overweight or obese.

Overweight and obesity are increasing. The percentage of adults who are obese has roughly doubled since the mid-1980's.


This from the World Health Organization in Europe:

Obesity is one of the greatest public health challenges of the 21st century. Its prevalence has tripled in many countries in the WHO European Region since the 1980s, and the numbers of those affected continue to rise at an alarming rate, particularly among children. Obesity is already responsible for 2-8% of health costs and 10-13% of deaths in different parts of the Region.

As Mike_Morrow pointed out, it is not uniquely an American problem. Of course, since we're Americans, we have to do everything bigger, so it's a bigger problem for us, but still shouldn't be ignored in Europe.

I am not overweight but I have plenty to blame genetics for. I am very tall, damn genes ... I have a hereditary high cholesteral condition, damn genes .... I have blue eyes, damn genes...
But I have no one to blame but myself if I decide to have a Key Lime Cheesecake for lunch, damn Trader Joe's... mmm

I think we need more guilt and blame! If someone looked at you like you were kicking a puppy every time you ordered a Baconator (http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp?family=1&product=4) then very few of us would have let our bodies get so fat. Self indulgence is the product of a soft weak corrupt society.

edit: meant to link to the nutrition info. http://www.wendys.com/food/Nutrition.jsp

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

Guilt & blame -> isolation -> depression -> more overeating.

However...

Support, education & empowerment (I think it's the first and last that are normally missing - we all know baconators are bad for you!) -> better choices -> more fulfilling life -> overcome food addiction.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

Guilt & blame -> isolation -> depression -> more overeating.

However...

Support, education & empowerment (I think it's the first and last that are normally missing - we all know baconators are bad for you!) -> better choices -> more fulfilling life -> overcome food addiction.

This is very heavily person dependent. For some people, yelling at them to lose weight and making them feel guilty for being overweight will make them want to change, just so they don't feel the shame anymore. For others, it's like you put shame in a high interest savings account; You shame them for being overweight, they shame themselves for "letting themselves go", then put on more weight, ad nauseum.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. But when it comes down to it, diet and exercise is still the best remedy, regardless of how they got there.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

Guilt & blame -> isolation -> depression -> more overeating.

However...

Support, education & empowerment (I think it's the first and last that are normally missing - we all know baconators are bad for you!) -> better choices -> more fulfilling life -> overcome food addiction.

I agree with Becky. The mechanic may not be exactly the same for everyone it may not be depression or isolation that drives the over eating. Outside forces are not going to change our attitude toward food and exercise.

My mother was overweight as a child she lost it and has kept it off but that was something that colored her interactions with food and therefore mine growing up. While I am not blaming her for my obesity I think our struggles with food may have set the stage for my self destructive eating.

Shame and guilt are usually only transitory emotions therefore naturally enough to fuel a diet weight loss journey. If a person has enough shame and guilt to last the duration of the weight loss journey that in itself is likely to be a prime contributor to the weight problem.

I am a very rebellious person - you yell at me for something and that almost guarantees I will not do what you want. ;)

I'm trying to break that habit. :)

I think we need more guilt and blame! If someone looked at you like you were kicking a puppy every time you ordered a Baconator (http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp?family=1&product=4) then very few of us would have let our bodies get so fat. Self indulgence is the product of a soft weak corrupt society.

edit: meant to link to the nutrition info. http://www.wendys.com/food/Nutrition.jsp

Dang. I wanted to say that baconator looked pretty good. The high fat and sodium kill it though. Maybe if you have them hold the cheese slices and instead use cheese sauce (-10.5 grams of fat - 500mg of sodium) you could fit it into a nice balance diet ;)
That is just looking at it from a nutritional standpoint. The only "burger" I can ever even chew is a cheeseburger from McDs but it makes me sick afterwards so I don't do that unless there is no other food for miles, 2am in the middle of nowhere.

This is kind of getting off topic, but I was thinking about the shame and guilt thing, and what we see people eating, and the truth is, unless you've spent the whole day with that person, you don't know the whole story. I was curious, wondered, "Is a baconator ALWAYS bad?" One would certainly think so...

So I put it in Fitday (actually used their double bacon cheeseburger, which has 7 more calories than Wendy's, but should be a pretty good approximation), with a healthy breakfast and dinner. And, well... see for yourself:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x55/sylphie74/baconator.jpg

Well, my tide has gone out through better eating and exercise. In fact I'm down another pound, to 242 from a starting weight of 385. So I respectfully, but firmly, disagree with you.

I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about what works for an individual, and I fully agree with you on that score. Saying "it's my genes" and continuing to overeat is really foolish. I'm talking about the big picture. Simply lecturing at people and pretending genetics don't play a role in the pattern of weight gain across populations is equally foolish. The ultimate solution to the problem is clearly not going to come from relying on old models. We have to come to terms with a world where mass produced food is cheap and plentiful. How we do that is an open question, but this fellow seems to want to plug his ears and shout. I'd rather listen to the scientific findings as we learn more about how the whole cylce of hunger and digestion develops and works. Of course, AT THE SAME TIME, I'm not waiting around for some perfect solution. I just don't give a crap about the whole guilt trip nonsense anymore. I've been down that road for most of my life, and it led me to view food as something of a security blanket. I'd overeat then I'd feel guilty. Now I just don't give a damn if I'm fat or not. I'm focused on eating BETTER foods that taste better. That means palek paneer instead of egg fu young, or a wedge of stilton instead of a brick of jack. I don't care if I lose weight anymore, except in as much as it impacts my spoke attrition. I'm just going to do my thing without a car and live life as I want to.

Of course, what works for me personally isn't a cure all. I'd love it if everyone killed their car as I did and rejected much of the modern world. But that's not a realistic solution--at least not until the black stuff runs out :D

I think we need more guilt and blame! If someone looked at you like you were kicking a puppy every time you ordered a Baconator (http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp?family=1&product=4) then very few of us would have let our bodies get so fat. Self indulgence is the product of a soft weak corrupt society.

If you looked at me like I was kicking a puppy when I ordered a treat at Wendys after a 35 mile trip on top of a weeks worth of commuting, I WOULD kick your puppy :D

I don't care what the robot says, Becky, the Baconator is an abomination!

I found out about it because last night I was watching a bizarre TV show about obese men and women forced to march through inclement weather and sleep in tents and one of the advertisements sandwiched between scenes of gruesome exploitation was for the new Baconator. It really brought home how truly f*cked up we are -- that someone at a network or ad-agency is targeting the un-healthiest food ever at viewers who are interested in a show that is ostensibly about weight loss.

Perhaps it was accidental placement, but there is no way I can ever eat the Baconator now because its inextricably tied to the image of a 500 pound man standing in the rain and crying because the bones in his feet cannot support his weight.

anyway, Everybody has a different set of mental triggers, but I for one need discipline to keep me from sucking down Dr. Pepper, Camels, meth and Baconators!

I don't care what the robot says, Becky, the Baconator is an abomination!

I found out about it because last night I was watching a bizarre TV show about obese men and women forced to march through inclement weather and sleep in tents and one of the advertisements sandwiched between scenes of gruesome exploitation was for the new Baconator. It really brought home how truly f*cked up we are -- that someone at a network or ad-agency is targeting the un-healthiest food ever at viewers who are interested in a show that is ostensibly about weight loss.

Perhaps it was accidental placement, but there is no way I can ever eat the Baconator now because its inextricably tied to the image of a 500 pound man standing in the rain and crying because the bones in his feet cannot support his weight.

anyway, Everybody has a different set of mental triggers, but I for one need discipline to keep me from sucking down Dr. Pepper, Camels, meth and Baconators!

Agreed - I don't want to eat one, and I wouldn't say it's healthy by any stretch of the imagination. Just trying to make a point about judging people's actions without knowing the whole picture.

That said, if you added fries and a coke, I think it WOULD be impossible to make it a reasonably healthy day, overall.

Anytime that you set up a system where there is a permanent lower-class, you have the potential for significant social problems. Accountability and admonishment can and does work on an individual basis for many people, but it also has the opposite impact (isolation, giving up) on many others. That creates a second-class of citizens that are looked down on by everyone else, which does nothing to solve the health and happiness problems of the people and the families impacted by obesity.

Like it or not, we are not feral predators. We are social animals. We are in this together, as a world-wide group of societies. Problems like obesity need to be approached by society using multiple tools that work on a grand scale. Blame and shame have not worked so far. It has not worked for drugs or alcohol either. Blame and shame may work for some or even a lot of people, but not for a very large percentage of people on behavior issues. It is much harder to change your behavior, than it is your hairstyle or what kind of clothes you wear.

I think that there are plenty of "sticks" out there for obese people. They don't need anymore brow-beating. They are already treated like non-people by many, get paid less, etc. Maybe we need more positive reinforcement out there. Something that points out the positive things that come with losing weight and getting into shape, than how evil/stupid/terrible you are for liking cheesecake. I'm not talking about saying that it is just fine and dandy to be overweight to the point that it harms your life and those around you, but that we should use more "I know that you can do it, here is how, and we can help".

Everyone needs significant help from others with something during some time in their lives. I think that we should help each other achieve success. Not beat the crap out of each other, or "drive them out".

bahh, that article is so far of its not even funny. Im sorry but genetics plays a huge factor in weight. At my height of physical activity I was on the top swim team in my town, had 1.5 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon of swimming. I was still considered by most charts to be 20 pounds overweight, I never ate fast food or any thing not healthy. Yet the majority of people on the team had to consume weight gainers multipl times a day to keep weight on. Well genetics keep you from having 10% body fat, no will it make it a night in day difference from one person to another, absolutely. Hell I have a good friend that eats Burger King just about every day and yet has a measured BF at 9%.

As Mike_Morrow pointed out, it is not uniquely an American problem. Of course, since we're Americans, we have to do everything bigger, so it's a bigger problem for us, but still shouldn't be ignored in Europe.

Well, having been to Europe several times, including just a few months ago, I'd have to say that obesity is mostly an american problem. We eat too much processed crap and don't exercise enough.

Europeans, from what I've observed first hand, tend to eat less processed garbage and tend to walk/bike more (thus burning more calories). They also tend to socialize more, and go out with their friends rather than hanging out in front of the tube.

I have been reading 'The Omnivore's Dilemma' and I see truth in the book. Basically for a number of reasons we have moved food production into an economic model were the profits are attained at the food processor. The end point is that we have more densely packed caloric foods cheaper than ever.

Genetically I think there are people that have bodies that process calories more affectively than others. I also know that brain chemistry passed on through genetics have a big affect on how much a person craves food which translates into a greater amount of will power needed to restrain from pigging out. Please view this study. (http://www.bnl.gov/thanoslab/Thanos%20PDF/JAddDisease1.pdf).

I also believe that our bodies seek equilibrium. We have several methods available to achieving equilibrium. Exercise plays a huge part in regulating our body's chemistry. Those that have sit-down jobs please raise their hands.

Between the dense caloric food abundantly available for little money and the lack of exercise throws our bodies out of equilibrium and eventually it forgets how to achieve that state. Type II diabetic anyone? Add to this a genetic metabolism that is slow and a brain chemistry that enhances craving you have a big problem. Sure there are some people that don't have any problem eating right and staying thin. I believe the majority of those people are blessed with genetics that protect them. Then there are the people that struggle with will to also stay fit.

In the end it does not matter if there is a fat gene or not. If there is a fat gene is only gives one the propensity to gain weight, just like genetically one might be more likely to have a heart problem. We all know what it takes to be thin and fit; exercise, water, eating calories that are nutritious and comes in an amount needed to sustain a certain weight.