I know, they're not really folding bikes but they do separate and are kinda in the same category. I recently read the articles in A to B magazine about the bikes and Alex Moulton and my interest has been tweeked; I like the unusual and different. I'd like to know if others on this forum own or have had experience with Moultons. Let me know what your experiences are or have been both good and bad. Thx in advance, PG.

Minimal experience with them. Initial impression is that they are stiff, fast, well built, and very comfy. But not as light as other bikes. They are beautiful, though. How in the world can you ride in the San Fernando Valley?

If the bike is to throw in the back of the car, they are a great option, but Bike Friday, Swift, and Birdy are more cost-effective (if less aesthetic) options. Each delivers a hand made frame. The Birdy is very similar to the Moulton in terms of design, but folds to a compact size. Bike Friday will deliver a harsher ride, but will custom make the bike to your dimensions. The Swift is the most cost-effective, but doesn't fold very much, so you would need to ensure it fits in your car.

I know, they're not really folding bikes but they do separate and are kinda in the same category. I recently read the articles in A to B magazine about the bikes and Alex Moulton and my interest has been tweeked; I like the unusual and different. I'd like to know if others on this forum own or have had experience with Moultons. Let me know what your experiences are or have been both good and bad. Thx in advance, PG.

MIght be worth joining the Moulton Forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/moultonbicycle/) and read some of the back posts... there is a ton of info on the site..

Bruce

pm124- I've been a member of the San Fernando Valley Bicycle Club for six years and have adopted some of their rides as my solo routes. Not too bad of an area to ride in and some of the mountain roads can be challenging. I've seriously looked at and continue to keep in mind the Bike Fridays. One of the SFVBC members rides a Pocket Rocket and for a small wheeled bike, he can really move. BruceMetras- Thanks for the link to the Moulton club. I'm certain to find helpful information there. PG.

I know, they're not really folding bikes but they do separate and are kinda in the same category.

Based on 45 years of cycling - half riding an Alex Moulton - I disagree. To view Moultons as some derived colapsing travel bike is to misunderstand what they're about and why they exist.

BTW, not only has Moultons never built a folding bike, the majority of bikes Dr. Moulton has built since 1962 do not separate.

Best,
TCS

...not as light as other bikes.

Yeah, yeah. I was down at the huge LBS not too long ago and got the "heavy bike" comment. I hung my 1984 Moulton on the shop scale, and then challenged them - with an inventory of literally thousands of 2007 bikes - to hang a new bike with dual suspension and a demountable frame on the scale that was lighter. They wouldn't take me up on the challenge. So I said I'd waive the separable frame, and for them just to hang a new dual suspension bike on the scale that weighed less. They declined to take me up on that either.

TCS

Pardon my "newbie" ignorance about the Moulton bikes. Great info so far. To TCS, in your experience, are there any U.S. dealers/distributors that you could recommend. I've seen a few on the Moulton website but I hate to both folks with pesty phone calls. Thx, PG.

Yeah, yeah. I was down at the huge LBS not too long ago and got the "heavy bike" comment. I hung my 1984 Moulton on the shop scale, and then challenged them - with an inventory of literally thousands of 2007 bikes - to hang a new bike with dual suspension and a demountable frame on the scale that was lighter. They wouldn't take me up on the challenge. So I said I'd waive the separable frame, and for them just to hang a new dual suspension bike on the scale that weighed less. They declined to take me up on that either.

TCS

Sure, one gets something for the extra weight. It is a tradeoff that an individual has to choose between.

I wonder if a manufacturer tried to build a dual suspension road bike whether the Moulton would still be lighter.

While one can get a Pashley with 20" tires, the one turnoff I have with the real Moultons is the 17 3/4" tires.

More generally, people have discussed separables here before including S&S Couplers and the Ritchey Breakaway. So I think you can discuss away ...

-G

Pardon my "newbie" ignorance about the Moulton bikes. Great info so far. To TCS, in your experience, are there any U.S. dealers/distributors that you could recommend. I've seen a few on the Moulton website but I hate to both folks with pesty phone calls. Thx, PG.

Too bad you are not around here ... John Bruno at BikesatVienna is a dealer. At least, I believe that they are.

http://www.bikesatvienna.com/products

I have a space frame Moulton APB, circa 1997, and an early F-frame, circa 1964. As others have noted, Moultons aren't folders, nor do they ride or handle like other small-wheeled bikes. Moultons are excellent road bikes.

Here's one U.S. dealer:

Gilbert Anderson at North Road Bicycle Company:

http://www.northroadbicycle.com/

Yeah, yeah. I was down at the huge LBS not too long ago and got the "heavy bike" comment. I hung my 1984 Moulton on the shop scale, and then challenged them - with an inventory of literally thousands of 2007 bikes - to hang a new bike with dual suspension and a demountable frame on the scale that was lighter. They wouldn't take me up on the challenge. So I said I'd waive the separable frame, and for them just to hang a new dual suspension bike on the scale that weighed less. They declined to take me up on that either.

TCS

What does your Moulton weigh?

David

'....He turned away the good old horse that served him many days;...'

My Birdy is down to about 19 pounds and is dual suspension, so I'm up for the challenge. ;-)

Of course, I would get plastered by this guy http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=21 if he put two Pantour hubs on it.

OK, OK, both the Moulton and Birdy have far superior suspension, but...

By the way, was justification ever given for moving from 349 wheels back in the day?

Based on 45 years of cycling - half riding an Alex Moulton - I disagree. To view Moultons as some derived colapsing travel bike is to misunderstand what they're about and why they exist.

BTW, not only has Moultons never built a folding bike, the majority of bikes Dr. Moulton has built since 1962 do not separate.

Best,
TCS

Fair comments if not veering a little close to Stereotyped Moultoneer elitism there ;)
But if you interpret his comments to mean 'diminutive fast small wheeled bike' then his post fits right in here on the Folder [aka minibike appreciation society] Forum.

Nowadays, Moulton's are just a name with great looks. I'm sure better bikes and mini-bikes have been made and are now made which challenge the ride of a Moulton. Looks are a different issue however, and I can understand paying a premium for that - up to a point.

Moultons don't look particularly good, and I own three, soon to be four of them. They do ride quite well, better overall than the other small wheelers I've tried. Bike Fridays are fairly agricultural in comparison, although their steering is nicely judged.

I have a non separating F frame Moulton and find the ride very good, in some ways better than my Birdy.
Thought some of you might like this video of the New Series Moulton.
Edd

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8522870086389552343&q=moulton

I have a non separating F frame Moulton and find the ride very good, in some ways better than my Birdy.
Thought some of you might like this video of the New Series Moulton.
Edd

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8522870086389552343&q=moulton

Thanks for that video. It makes the viewer really want to ride & probably own, a Moulton.

For you folks with, or interested in, Birdys & Moultons, there's a review of these along with others in a touring context, in Aug-Sept issue of "Cycle", the UK "CTC" magazine.

Moultons don't look particularly good, and I own three, soon to be four of them.
I think you've spoiled yourself by owning too many, and have taken their looks for granted. To me, their F-frame is both a functional and aesthetically pleasing design; Bridgestone seems to agree. I'll take your word for it about how it rides, though.

BTW, while waiting for a few programs to finish running, I looked up the wheel diameter of the new Moultons ...

The listed diameter is something like ~18.5" (the actual diameter with a Stelvio) but they are using ERTO 406 wheels. However, the fork is narrow preventing a wider tires from being used.

-G

I have an old Moulton Stowaway --that's the separable model-- that I got on ebay. It came with surprisingly light all-steel components, and the gearing was a single speed coaster brake hub. The rims are 16 x 1 3/8 like Brompton. I've upgraded it now, with all aluminum alloy components, including an SA-8 hub and an SA drum-brake-dynamo hub in front, and the result doesn't seem a whole lot lighter than it was. I have not weighed it! I have not found any effective rear brake; the reach is a bit long, but that probably isn't the whole story. Thankfully the drum brake gives me all the stopping power I need. The bike feels very sturdy, and I feel confident riding it fast, bunny hopping speed bumps, etc. The full suspension is effective, and I like the comfort of the ride, but the steering is very jumpy; cannot ride no-hands, so I am more or less stuck in one position while riding, which I don't like so well. But I am not convinced I've set up the bike to fit me just right; haven't found a handlebar / stem combination that I like... and so on.

As for separability vs foldability... I can take the frame apart and put it in the back of the car, and have done a few times, but it's a bit of a chore and involves an 8mm allen wrench... it is nowhere as simple as folding up a Strida or a Downtube Mini, and I find it more convenient to commute on the latter most of the time.

As for the look... well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? It's sure an odd looking beastie, and the small wheels tend to make the whole bike look unusually large. The beauty of the thing, to me, is that it just looks so functional.

I have a non separating F frame Moulton and find the ride very good, in some ways better than my Birdy.
Thought some of you might like this video of the New Series Moulton.
Edd

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8522870086389552343&q=moulton

As I watched that video, you could see the front suspension bottoming out every time the rider pushed the crank. He wasn't even going up a hill and the front fork hit the bottom! It reminded of a guy riding a Cannondale with that front shock because it absorbs alot of energy. I don't mind the rear suspension but the front is not really necessary. I bet that rider could go faster if the front fork was solid without suspension.

An interesting video that was. I could do with a front suspension like that when I hit a pothole on 16" wheels - almost enough of a shock to break your wrist - well, maybe not quite, but savage nonetheless.

I make a habit of meticulously examining the frame and forks every hundred miles. Allu frame and constant shocks could get nasty eventually.

On my earlier posting, the question about wheel size and efficiency was raised. We never actually got to an experiment on small wheels, http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=309371 but Moulton did. He notes that the suspended wheels were 1-2% *more* efficient than the big wheeled bikes. Of course, that is biased by MFR testing, so we are back to square 1. In the end, seems like there isn't much difference.

Watching that video posted in this thread has made me want to go down and see the Moulton operation at Bradfrod on Avon. I'm thinking of a car/Merc tour around the Kenilworth canal tow path to take in the Moulton place. As a director of my son's company, I think I could qualify for the tax free perks of the ride to work scheme and get nearly 50% off the price of a Pashly Moulton. I can't really justify £3000 for the latest Moulton, hand made product, but the Pashly Moulton at £900 with a hefty tax discount is a different matter.

http://www.paulspages.co.uk/bbcycle/


http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/tsr8.html

http://www.pashley.co.uk/cms/products/main_22.jpeg

On my earlier posting, the question about wheel size and efficiency was raised. We never actually got to an experiment on small wheels, http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=309371 but Moulton did. He notes that the suspended wheels were 1-2% *more* efficient than the big wheeled bikes. Of course, that is biased by MFR testing, so we are back to square 1. In the end, seems like there isn't much difference.What's MFR testing?

Edd : This video is an excellent find. I want Dr Alex's little model maquette Moulton for the living room!

What's MFR testing?
Manufacturer?

Dr Moulton's testing, according to images in that video, was done on a small-diameter drum. The results from such a small drum indicate smaller wheels to be more efficient compared to actual road riding, due to the smaller length of tyre deformation. And because the results do not translate directly to road riding, the results are not representative.

Bummer.

Still, Moulton wasn't born yesterday, and I think that his results do tell us something about suspended wheels being more efficient, and wheel diameter being of lesser importance than generally thought.

Has anyone had experience of the Pashley Moulton bikes? They have 20 inch wheels it seems.

These guys have a few Moultons, and then some.

http://www.2-wheel.com/ayasecycle.htm

Dr Moulton's testing, according to images in that video, was done on a small-diameter drum. The results from such a small drum indicate smaller wheels to be more efficient compared to actual road riding, due to the smaller length of tyre deformation. And because the results do not translate directly to road riding, the results are not representative.

Bummer.

Still, Moulton wasn't born yesterday, and I think that his results do tell us something about suspended wheels being more efficient, and wheel diameter being of lesser importance than generally thought.

I've just come back to this post and I'm thinking about the small drum comment. I suppose from memory that the drum was similar in size to the wheel. It looked rough and bumpy to simulate a poor road surface. Judging by the suspension deformation shown, the test was unrepresentative only in that the road was worse than any I'd consider riding on. On the other hand, I have an unsuspended 16 incher, so I flinch at potholes. Anyway, I think the comments about efficiency at the start implied some kind of track test measuring rider output.


EDIT:

TO ANYBODY WHO ENJOYED THE MOULTON VIDEO, DOWNLOAD THE FLASH MOULTON BOOKLET HERE:

http://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/booklet.html

IT GOES INTO REALLY INTERESTING DETAILS ABOUT DESIGNS AND FEATURES.

I recommend the 'download' option. I tried the view online option, but found it too small to read. The downloaded one is excellent from the size point of view.

What's MFR testing?

Sorry, manufacturer. Also, the...'doctor, not a"... joke might not culturally translate. It's from Star Trek, a US television series from the '60s. Did ya'll get that down under?

So, is all of this over engineering? I recently took apart the new Birdy stem (http://www.r-m.de/uploads/vJfPkzWGohMBdfs4QV7fHA/my-yWCcB9vqVx23O6b7hng/huelse_1.wmv) and wondered if all of that stuff was really necessary. (The used Birdy I bought was part of a recall, so I replaced a part.)

Sorry, manufacturer. Also, the...'doctor, not a"... joke might not culturally translate. It's from Star Trek, a US television series from the '60s. Did ya'll get that down under?

So, is all of this over engineering? I recently took apart the new Birdy stem (http://www.r-m.de/uploads/vJfPkzWGohMBdfs4QV7fHA/my-yWCcB9vqVx23O6b7hng/huelse_1.wmv) and wondered if all of that stuff was really necessary. (The used Birdy I bought was part of a recall, so I replaced a part.)

Just watched that vid.

It does seem a very nicely built, if perhaps overly complicated hinge. That kind of work would cost a lot to produce and since other folder hinges are perfectly serviceable, but much less complex, I'd say it is over engineered. It's the kind of design work you might expect to see on an aircraft or something like that.

Sorry, manufacturer. Also, the...'doctor, not a"... joke might not culturally translate. It's from Star Trek, a US television series from the '60s. Did ya'll get that down under?Err, no, I didn't. But I can be slow as ... and I'm a Trekkie fan... culturally, we're roughly on the same level, so I have no excuse... although it is now years since I saw an episode from the original series. I'm fairly sure I have seen that particular episode, but the details escape me now. :)

I've just come back to this post and I'm thinking about the small drum comment. I suppose from memory that the drum was similar in size to the wheel. It looked rough and bumpy to simulate a poor road surface. Judging by the suspension deformation shown, the test was unrepresentative only in that the road was worse than any I'd consider riding on. On the other hand, I have an unsuspended 16 incher, so I flinch at potholes. Anyway, I think the comments about efficiency at the start implied some kind of track test measuring rider output.


EDIT:

TO ANYBODY WHO ENJOYED THE MOULTON VIDEO, DOWNLOAD THE FLASH MOULTON BOOKLET HERE:

http://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/booklet.html

IT GOES INTO REALLY INTERESTING DETAILS ABOUT DESIGNS AND FEATURES.

I recommend the 'download' option. I tried the view online option, but found it too small to read. The downloaded one is excellent from the size point of view.

lol - Sorry to be replying to my own post, but was I deluded in wanting a Moulton New Series after watching that video. I just got an email from them in response to my request for pricing information....

"Dear Mr ****,



The New Series prices are from £4800 up to £7000 retail including VAT, the lead time for one is around six months.

The Moulton ‘Esprit’, which we have just started to make at our works will be around £2400 with a lead time of around two and a half months. This is a new version of the original Alex Moulton with 17” wheels using the ‘hairpin’ frame construction of our original ATB and used on the Pashley Moulton ‘TSR’ in our newest lightweight tubing as used on the Double Pylon making for a very stiff and lightweight frame."Boy - was I barking up the wrong tree?

lol - Sorry to be replying to my own post, but was I deluded in wanting a Moulton New Series after watching that video. I just got an email from them in response to my request for pricing information....

Boy - was I barking up the wrong tree?

Yeah, your best bet is to get an old used steel one and upgrade it. I've met a few that have scored them. Amazingly, the elastomers on both bikes still work after 40 years! Of course, you could also get one in Japan for slightly less, but the Yen is rising by the day.

Or, you could just save the money and buy different full suspension small wheeled bike.;)

Boy - was I barking up the wrong tree?

Are you considering a Pashley?

Err, no, I didn't. But I can be slow as ... and I'm a Trekkie fan... culturally, we're roughly on the same level, so I have no excuse... although it is now years since I saw an episode from the original series. I'm fairly sure I have seen that particular episode, but the details escape me now. :)

Captain...I tried shoving a wiener in the warp drive, but it dinna seem to make a bit o' difference. By the way, would you be able to spare a bit of mustard?

Star Dreck, circa '80's thanks to Dr Demento

Are you considering a Pashley?

Yes - I don't really need a hand made bike, built at a stately home in Southern England. Those prices for the New Series are a joke. I paid about £7000 for a three month old deisel car and was happy, but a bike?

My problem is that having written to Pashley about more detailed photographs pf the TSR8, they say they don't have any; which seems strange. My nearest Pashley dealer is over a hundred miles away. Having watched that video about Moulton's light weight suspension for small wheels, I was sort of persuaded, but maybe I'll buy a Curve woth Big Apple tyres instead.... I'd have enough cash left over to go on a world cycle tour, or maybe I'll just stick to what I've got. The pursuit of posessions is the pursuit of illusions - mostly. I added the 'mostly' so as not to sound like some kind of eastern philosopher.

Yeah, your best bet is to get an old used steel one and upgrade it. I've met a few that have scored them. Amazingly, the elastomers on both bikes still work after 40 years! Of course, you could also get one in Japan for slightly less, but the Yen is rising by the day.

Or, you could just save the money and buy different full suspension small wheeled bike.;)

Most of the old ones are hideously ugly though. Also, a lot of them are forty years old and look it in every way - rust - style issues - white grips. Very dated, not to mention the problem of getting new parts if you need them. The newer small diameter tubes welded into a kind of space frame do have some appeal though. Naa - I'm starting to recoil from the idea like a snail does from a patch of salt.

Do you know of any high performance small wheeled bikes?

Captain...I tried shoving a wiener in the warp drive, but it dinna seem to make a bit o' difference. By the way, would you be able to spare a bit of mustard?

Star Dreck, circa '80's thanks to Dr Demento

I try to keep my wiener out of the warp drive machinery, but I understand the temptation.

Do you know of any high performance small wheeled bikes?

EvilV, nothing wrong with sounding like an eastern philosopher. We actually could use more of that around these parts. (These parts being the US.)

High performance suspension bikes?

Well in larger, fit in the car folding size (will fit in your $14,000 diesel), you have the Airnimal (rear) and the Reach (full suspension). Both expensive with excellent reviews, but much cheaper than the Moulton. Haven't tried either. The road version of the Reach is called, "Reach for the Road," which sounds like the last think you do before you hit the pavement.

Then, in mid-size, you have the hinge-frame Dahons. I think there is a full suspension sub-20# model in their international bikes section. I have a friend with one of those. It's just 4 years old and sounds like a jalopy, squeeking and creaking in a scary way from every bit of the frame. The guy weighs about 125 and is approaching 65 years old, but breaks spokes in the Rolf wheels all the time. Not sure how the newer ones are.

Finally, in the Moulton wheel, small size, you have my baby, the Birdy. I bought both of mine used, each at the 500 mile sweet spot, for a bit less than the new price. One advantage to this bike and the Reach is that they are both suspended with elastomers, which are very durable. The sealed bearings in the frame hinge are the only additional bits over a non-suspended bike.

Oh, and how could I forget. There is the Air Friday with rear suspension. No additional moving parts there at all.

Bike Friday actually has a front suspension fork ... you just have to ask. The MTB front suspension version is called the Pocket Gnu.

There is a gentleman in Canada selling an Air Friday with front suspension. I think his name is Wil. You can find him on the Yak boards.

Regarding the Pashley, if you are going to spend a big lump of cash on a bike, EvilV, is it not worth a 100-mile trip?

-G

Regarding the Pashley, if you are going to spend a big lump of cash on a bike, EvilV, is it not worth a 100-mile trip?

-G

Oh - thanks for that invisiblehand. I'd begin to wonder when the makers claim they have no better pictures than a 350x289 pixel snap that they use on their website. How do you make a purchase decision for £900 on the basis of that?


High performance suspension bikes?

Well in larger, fit in the car folding size (will fit in your $14,000 diesel), you have the Airnimal (rear) and the Reach (full suspension). Both expensive with excellent reviews, but much cheaper than the Moulton. Haven't tried either. The road version of the Reach is called, "Reach for the Road," which sounds like the last think you do before you hit the pavement.

Then, in mid-size, you have the hinge-frame Dahons. I think there is a full suspension sub-20# model in their international bikes section. I have a friend with one of those. It's just 4 years old and sounds like a jalopy, squeeking and creaking in a scary way from every bit of the frame. The guy weighs about 125 and is approaching 65 years old, but breaks spokes in the Rolf wheels all the time. Not sure how the newer ones are.

Finally, in the Moulton wheel, small size, you have my baby, the Birdy. I bought both of mine used, each at the 500 mile sweet spot, for a bit less than the new price. One advantage to this bike and the Reach is that they are both suspended with elastomers, which are very durable. The sealed bearings in the frame hinge are the only additional bits over a non-suspended bike.

Thanks for all that detail. I'm going to look into all of them.

Can I just say something off topic about my diesel car. It normally returns about 60 mpg, but this month, I've only been using it for leisurely journeys of a long distance type. I always measure the fuel consumption by measuring mileage from full tank to the next complete refill. Last fill up, for a 560 mile period of driving, it averaged 72 mpg. I've seen 68 quite a few times, but that one is as we say here, the dog's bollocks of efficency. 19.5:1 compression ratio is the way to go... Laws of thermodynamics rule.

Oh - thanks for that invisiblehand. I'd begin to wonder when the makers claim they have no better pictures than a 350x289 pixel snap that they use on their website. How do you make a purchase decision for £900 on the basis of that?

:lol:

Oh, I think that it is ridiculous and they are obviously hurting themselves. Unless of course there is something they are hiding. But I would go with a bit of incompetence for the time being.

:lol:

Oh, I think that it is ridiculous and they are obviously hurting themselves. Unless of course there is something they are hiding. But I would go with a bit of incompetence for the time being.

I found some VERY detailed photos on the web of the TSR Pashley / Moultons. They look absolutely beautifully made. Definately worth a look. I'm very tempted by them.

http://www.moulton-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=212

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7143/pashleymoultonbbtx7.jpg

The Birdy (there is one in the picture) has almost the same component selection, down to the rims (same make, model). Would be fun to try them side by side. I have to say that the Moulton looks a lot nicer, but I doubt it rides any differently.

Did a stretch of a 22 mile ride this morning at 27MPH (maybe for two miles). It was a lot of fun, but the 3 chainrings on that Moulton would have changed things a bit.

Heh heh, I like this pic of the bike on a cool white carefully draped background, then forgetting to crop and showing a scruffy dog peeking in!
http://www.the-bike.net/forumsbilder/alex-moulton-tsr-pashley/alex-moulton-tsr-rot10.jpg

Heh heh, I like this pic of the bike on a cool white carefully draped background, then forgetting to crop and showing a scruffy dog peeking in!

That's the Moulton Pooch, mid ninties model. Comes in short or long hair, model designation Moulton Pooch (scraggy) and Moulton Pooch (shaved). They can only do a few each year and sizing is variable.

What do you reckon to that frame construction Jur? It looks kind of stiff and quirky. I'm really drawn to it myself. I'm also interested in the leading link suspension idea.... As long as the bearings are well lubed and unworn - deadly otherwise.