Road Cycling - Trek 5900 or Melin Extralight

My brother is testing riding for a new ride. He wanted to test ride a trek 5900, but the LBS only had the 5200, so he tested it, instead, and loved it. Then he went to test ride the Merlin Extralight to compare the difference between carbon and titanium. Well, here's where I made my mistake.

I decided to get on the Merlin for a spin and loved it! I also took the 5200 for a spin and liked it as well, although I did found the Merlin to be a little smoother ride. To make a story short, you've guessed it, I am now in the market for a frameset. I plan on moving my conponents over for the new frameset. I knew I shouldn't have put me big butt on the saddle of either bike. Look what happenned. :D

Anyway, I plan on using this bike for long rides, so I'm looking for a comfortable frame. However, I want it to be able to accellerate well enough to keep up with the group we need be. So, weight is not a huge issue here.

I'd appreciate if people can chime in with their experience with either or both (preferably). Are their any recommendations on other frames to test ride? I called the Litespeed dealer and was told that Litespeed doesn't sell frameset anymore.

I'm deciding on the 5200 and the Extralight, although the 5900 is not out of the picture. I'm not sure if the 5900 is worth spending the extra $500 for the frameset.

Opinions?

A guy I ride with had a Look 261 that was a bit large for him. He went to the LBS with the intention of test riding and purchasing a Trek 5200. (He has recently been riding between 60 and 90 miles two days a week at around 16 or so mph average)

He rode the Trek and then based on the advice of the saleseman decided to give a Lemond Titanium a try. He left with the Lemond Titanium w/Ultegra. He said that the Trek was lighter, but that he liked the ride of the Ti better. Sorry this is second hand info, but I know he went in with his mind pretty made up to buy the Trek.

Maybe you can find a NOS Litespeed Tuscany frame/fork? Was looking for the same elements you were and the Litespeed has worked wonderfully. Mine was/is a 2001 NOS w/Reynolds Ouzo. Good luck!

BTW, got it in Dev 02/Jan 03 for $950 - frame/fork.

BTW, got it in Dec 02/Jan 03 for $950 - frame/fork.

I'm actually gonna test ride the Litespeed Siena next week, but the dealer said that Litespeed doesn't sell framesets anymore. They stopped this practice in 2003. They only sell full bikes now, but the sales guy said he'll work with me, which usually mean it will cost me.

BTW, how do you like the ride of the Tuscany? Have you ridden the Siena? The LBS only have the Siena in my size, so I can't test ride any other models to compare. I called 3 LBS and this was all I found.

My LBS just got a Vortex and Sienna frame in to sell. Maybe shop around a little. BTW I really love my Litespeed Ultimate.

At that price point, unless you're a pro racer, the real selling point is prestige value. So it comes down to a question of which bike will make more people drool. The Trek looks too much like the 5200/5500 and, let's face it, is just too common, while the Merlin has that hand built exoticism. So go with the Merlin, you'll impress more people.

I only want to impress myself. Nothing better than looking at your bike and thinking, "Ah, that's my bike, it's so purdy," while smiling. :)

I like the classy look of the Merlin, and the ride is nice too, but I have to agree that I'll be paying for the brand name. That's why I'm gonna test ride the Litespeed next week to see if it will sway me.

My Tuscany has been great, all that I expected. I don't know if I'll ever figure out enough of the 'technical' stuff to contribute to this forum on the level of many others...but, the ride is sooo much better than my Cannondale, smoother and easier on my body. I'm doing about 2 mph better and climbing better, which were exactly the things I was hoping for from the Tuscany. I ride...I'll never race at my age (54)...and, I'm full-sized (6', 200+). The Tuscany seems perfect for me. IMO, it looks great, too...'Splash' Cinelli tape, Velomax Orion wheels, Brooks Team Pro saddle and yellow Vittoria Open Corsa tires seem to go wonderfully with the titanium finish and yellow stickers.

Didn't really have the option of the Siena, but did have a shot at an Ultimate. Exchanged a few e-mails with Litespeed (Chris Burt, I believe) and his advice was that for someone with my riding goals and my size the Tuscany would be the better fit. Good luck!

Thanks for the response, guys. I'll let you know what/when I decide with.

I have a 2002 Trek 5200 and have no complaints about the frame. You can upgrade things like the headset, wheels, posts, etc. but it is a darn good bike out of the box. Especially for $2500. I would think the 5900 frame would be great. That is what Lance has been riding. The Trek price is also right. If it was me, and I needed to upgrade something other than the frame, I would buy the 5200 and capitalize on the savings. If you have everything the way you want, then I would consider a 5900 frame. If you want to customize it, you can select many different colors for about $300 more. Thus, a 5200 frame with a custom color is probably still $200 cheaper than the 5900 (based on what you mentioned earlier).

I am sure all those bikes are excellent. You can't really go wrong with anything but the price. I am yet to find someone that is unhappy with there titanium or carbon frames. I will say this, plenty of people are impressed with my 5200 and wish they had one, even if their current setup costs more. They usually have some buyers remorse since a 5200 with ultegra can cost a lot less than other Ti or Carbon bikes. As a result, I would get the cheapest one that I was happy with. The Trek carbon frames also appear to have a good resale value if you actually do not like it or must sell it for some reason.

Thanks Scott! I actually took the 5200 for a 50 mile test ride yesterday and it was great. I was really impress with it. The bike climbs like no tomorrow and was very comfortable. If I go with Trek, I'll probably go with the 5900, but not the project one; can't wait that long.

I will be testing the Litespeed this coming week to see how it compares to the Trek.

My mind was pretty set on a 5200 when I started the road to buying a new road bike and 20 days and 20 rides later I left with a Lemond Zurich.
When I get tired of this bike or can afford it I plan on getting a custom steel bike.
With the current Ti being used I just don't think it's worth that much money and I don't think the ride quality, weight and cost ratio is worth it.
I like the ride of steel and I really wanted a CF or even a Ti bike, but the Zurich just railed around corners and didn't have that thud of CF.
The sales guy at the LBS told me Ti will last forever. I just had to laugh. Is that really a selling point?

I was told a similar thing about the Ti. I was told that I'll have the same bike 10 years from now if I buy a Ti. Does that mean that CF doesn't last at long?

BTW, I tested the Serotta steel yesterday and was amazed at how good it feels. Didn't care for the extra weight though, but it was a nice ride.

Originally posted by EagleEye
I was told a similar thing about the Ti. I was told that I'll have the same bike 10 years from now if I buy a Ti. Does that mean that CF doesn't last at long?

Metal bikes willtend to handle lifes little knocks a lot better than CF.
The myth of Carbon Fibre's limitless life is perpetuated by saleman who want to sell the latest fad.
Personally I think Carbon fibre frames for bicycles is a marketing fad, at least the way most CF bikes are constructed.

Bikes like the Trek (which IMO is the best value for money in CF at the moment) are carbon tubes glued into crbon fibre lugs. The weakpoints are the glue joints whose strength is wholey dependant on the shear strength in the glue.

Sales peopl also love to tell you CF is used in Formula 1 and Indy cars and is very strong. and that is very true. What they don't tell you is that the chassis for those vehicles is only used for around 5000km before they are retired from service. Why? It's difficult and expensive to inpect teh integrity of the glue joints and the laminate.
The same holds true for CF bicycle frames. Crash the bike and all may appear to be fine but there could be hairlin cracks in the resin which will grow bigger and the tube can fail unexpectedly.
So even though in theory a carbon fibre structure can last forever, the reality is that there are far to many variables that a bike frame encounters day to tday to say for sure that it wil last even a year.

Metal frames tend to handle day to day knocks, crashes and general mistreatment much better without the potentially catastrophic consequences.


Back to teh topic:
I own a Litespeed Tuscany. It's a great bike. Weighs 7.5kg with pedals and is really stiff.
It should last a very long time and maintain it's ride quality vs stiffness for it's life and will handle sweat, staying inside a car with temp above 50degreesC (although it's carbon fork won't). It will still be in fashion 10yrs from now.

I chose it over the Trek 5500 which I also tested because:

1) it feels livelier
2) softer ride with similar BB stiffness
3) as light as Trek 5500 in my size (53)
4) Lifetime warranty
5) just felt more at home with the Tuscany

of the above points the last one is probably the most important.

If Ti and CF are your material choices and the Merlin and 5900 are your frames, I would advise you to take the Merlin. However if you don't feel as at home on it as the 5900 then that should probably be your choice.
Don't let the potential long life of the Merlin be the most important factor. Fit first then material.

ti, like other metals, fatigues, and will fail eventually. as far as i know, carbon itself does not fatigue, and will therefore not fail due to repeated stresses. yeah, the matrix holding the fibers together is the weak link in carbon. supposedly, trek's got their process so dialed in that nasa buys from them. that and a lifetime warranty make me think a trek frame will last as long as you will.

obviously, i'm biased towards carbon. i've done some pretty extensive homework on it, and agree with tim that trek is the best value, and maybe even the best carbon outright. smaller guys like parlee and calfee make great frames too, but the price is much higher. even those guys grudgingly admit trek makes a damn nice frame. combine that with the fact that the USPS team rides treks (and don't tell me they have to--tyler rode a parlee when he HAD to ride a look; frames get relabeled all the time to meet contractual demands) exclusively to pretty good result, and i can't imagine not buying a trek carbon.

merlin also makes great frames, of course. in the ti culture, merlin's pretty much acknowledged as the leader in technology and skill (independent fab. brags that their welders came over from merlin, for example). no doubt, a beautiful frame. i'm personally not sold on ti, because to me it really just seems like a lighter--and MUCH more expensive-- version of steel. you can get an extra light steel frame for cheaper that weighs maybe a 1/2 pound more. personally, my body weight fluctuates more than that on any given day. so I'D recommend the trek, assuming it fits you. but if you get the merlin, i'm sure you'd be happy too.

edit: oh, and a word about catastrophic failure. note that lance cracked his chain stay on luz ardiden, and it didn't fail. if i recall, he actually spun his way to the top pretty well on that climb. catastrophic failure is simply cited by anti-carbon people trying to sell you metal ;)

I likes the merlin.

I still ride a 1992 Merlin road. And I also have a 2003 Merlin XLM.

edit: oh, and a word about catastrophic failure. note that lance cracked his chain stay on luz ardiden, and it didn't fail. if i recall, he actually spun his way to the top pretty well on that climb. catastrophic failure is simply cited by anti-carbon people trying to sell you metal

The operatve word is cracked. However if the frame was metal the chainstay would simply have bent.
That the stay held together for him to finish is a testimony to Trek's OCLV production process.
The only other manufacturer who uses a technique that produces very low voids is Time. They use resin transfer moulding which has the same effect as OCLV, ie low voids.
Outside fo those two manufacturers I would look back their history and weigh use ropinion heavily before investing in a CF bike.

But bare in mind also that the 110 weight carbon cloth usd for the 5900 is lighter it is no stronger than a 5500 or 5200. Perhaps in tension it has a similar strngth but I'm willing to bet it's a more brittle structure which won't handle accidents as well as a 5500.

Still If CF's what you want then Trek or Time are the bikes you want.

I had a Kestrel 200csi carbon frame. it cracked

I had a 1997 Merlin XLM mountain bike. It cracked.

Stuff breaks.

The ti is a better long term bike. Most people will get the new bike wants before they use up their Ti frame.

Wow, thanks guys. A lot on good information. You all are right. I'm at a point where I want to buy what's right for me. I can't deny that I looked at a Merlin for the prestige, but I realized yesterday that I really should get what fits me and my riding style.

So, right now I'm leaning toward the 5900. I feel that the 5900 fits my style of riding better and it's feels just as comfortable as the Merlin. They both have a lifetime warranty, so if either frame fails, I can send it back to the manufacture.

Well, maybe a Ti will my next, after the 5900. :)