VT Biker
08-07-07, 09:49 PM
WADA opens Contador investigation
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug08news
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug08news
View Full Version : WADA Opens Contador Investigation
alanbikehouston
08-07-07, 10:38 PM
My guess: WADA will end up conclusively proving NADA.
erader
08-07-07, 10:59 PM
My guess: WADA will end up conclusively proving NADA.
i haven't followed puerto too close. why is the case against contador any weaker than say against basso or ullrich?
ed rader
i haven't followed puerto too close. why is the case against contador any weaker than say against basso or ullrich?
ed rader
I saw Elvis
08-08-07, 12:38 AM
i haven't followed puerto too close. why is the case against contador any weaker than say against basso or ullrich?
ed rader
Cos he said it wasn't him :D:D
ed rader
Cos he said it wasn't him :D:D
Sci-Fi
08-08-07, 04:27 AM
Franke's integrity is in question, so who knows? AC never missed and passed all the random tests and was acquitted/dropped from the puerto case by the courts and the UCI. As long as he doesn't admit he was contemplating using drugs like Basso did, the case is dead.
WADA is looking into a "gene doping" test which may be harder to detect...so the battle of science goes on. Wonder what would happen if gene transfers or DNA manipulation were done in the test tube/womb...when the child is born would he/she be considered a doper and banned from participating in any sport?
With all those sperm and egg banks around, some couples have been basically custom ordering their children based on the dominant traits of the donors....lot of ethical questions...esp if the child became an athlete. Is the next step to ban test tube babies or genetically engineered babies from competition when they become of age because they "may" have an advantage?
WADA is looking into a "gene doping" test which may be harder to detect...so the battle of science goes on. Wonder what would happen if gene transfers or DNA manipulation were done in the test tube/womb...when the child is born would he/she be considered a doper and banned from participating in any sport?
With all those sperm and egg banks around, some couples have been basically custom ordering their children based on the dominant traits of the donors....lot of ethical questions...esp if the child became an athlete. Is the next step to ban test tube babies or genetically engineered babies from competition when they become of age because they "may" have an advantage?
VT Biker
08-08-07, 07:12 AM
I think the biggest hurdle WADA has here is that no one can find the bag of blood with AC on it (that Jacke claims was there).
Namenda
08-08-07, 07:13 AM
Maybe the A.C. in question was Antonio Colom, not Contador.
USAZorro
08-08-07, 10:47 AM
Maybe the A.C. in question was Antonio Colom, not Contador.
Interesting, and plausible speculation.
Perhaps even more so after this (http://velonews.com/news/fea/13063.0.html).
Interesting, and plausible speculation.
Perhaps even more so after this (http://velonews.com/news/fea/13063.0.html).
FlashBazbo
08-12-07, 09:13 AM
i haven't followed puerto too close. why is the case against contador any weaker than say against basso or ullrich?
ed rader
Because the only place in the documents where Contador's name definitely exists is in race results files -- which include anyone who placed well in a pro race anywhere during the pertinent time period. (If you finished high in a European pro race during that time, you're in there, too.)
ed rader
Because the only place in the documents where Contador's name definitely exists is in race results files -- which include anyone who placed well in a pro race anywhere during the pertinent time period. (If you finished high in a European pro race during that time, you're in there, too.)
interested
08-12-07, 02:56 PM
Franke's integrity is in question, so who knows? AC never missed and passed all the random tests and was acquitted/dropped from the puerto case by the courts and the UCI. As long as he doesn't admit he was contemplating using drugs like Basso did, the case is dead.
First of all, we don't now if A.C. has missed any tests and gotten any written or recorded warnings, since that is confidential information. Second, his dismissal from the Purto case smells badly. The Puerto files has evidently been purged for evidence against Contador and a couple of other riders, among these Luis Leon Sanchez, whose father just happens to be a leading Guardia civil police officer, who was assigned to the Puerto case. Not all references to A.C. have been removed though, one of the more damaging pile of papers are from "document 31", a bunch papers implicating Liberty riders from their 2005 team. On the doping note labeled A.C., someone has written; "Must not be given to UCI".
The hand writing is of course interesting. It explains why the UCI never got "document 31" (perhaps better translated to "casemap 31" since it contains more than one document), and therefore why the UCI cleared Contador.
The index shows that the following documents (casemaps) relates to Liberty-Seguros riders. The casemaps marked MISSING is because Guardia Civil suddenly and without reason appears to have lost the name connections to the dopingplans in the casemaps, though the name references did exist at one time. Sometimes it appears that entire files have been removed:
dokument 8 - Angle Vicioso
dokument 9 - Izidro Nozal
dokument 10 - Roberto Heras
dokument 11 - Rene Andrle
dokument 12 - MISSING
dokument 13 - Small group of Liberty Seguros-ryttere (called AMA)
dokument 14 - Jan Hruska
dokument 15 - Jesús Hernández;
dokument 16 - Igor Gonzalez Galdeano
dokument 17-22 - MISSING
dokument 23 - Allan Davis
dokument 24 - Jörg Jaksche
dokument 25 - MISSING
dokument 26 - Michele Scarponi
dokument 27 - David Etxebarría
dokument 28 - Joseba Beloki
dokument 29 - Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (again)
dokument 30 - MISSING
These riders are Alberto Contadors teammates.
Someone http://www.sportensverden.dk/cycling/item.asp?id=4049 made a comparison between the above list and the entire team Liberty-Seguros.
Giampaolo Caruso, Koldo Gil (both mentionend in casemap 55 and 58)
Dariusz Baranowsky (stopped)
Nuno Ribeiro (busted for Epo)
Marcos Serrano (heavily incriminated in the Puerto files elsewhere)
That allegedly only leaves out two names from the Liberty-Seguros team, namely the two Spanish top talents; Alberto Contador and Luis Leon Sanchez, and Sanchez is, as mentionend before, son of a leading Guardia Civil police officer on the Puerto case.
And Alberto Contador must be A.C. from "document 31" all the rest of the riders in that bunch of dopingfiles are identified by the initials. Jörg Jacksche has confirmed that the dopingplan in document 31 labeled J.J. is his. He also confirmed that Dr. Fuentes handwriting was on the files labeled A.C.
And come on, except for perhaps Baranowsky, the entire Liberty-Seguros team has either been busted for doping, or are clearly Dr. Fuentes clients, or both. Why should Contador be the only clean rider on that team?
--
Regards
First of all, we don't now if A.C. has missed any tests and gotten any written or recorded warnings, since that is confidential information. Second, his dismissal from the Purto case smells badly. The Puerto files has evidently been purged for evidence against Contador and a couple of other riders, among these Luis Leon Sanchez, whose father just happens to be a leading Guardia civil police officer, who was assigned to the Puerto case. Not all references to A.C. have been removed though, one of the more damaging pile of papers are from "document 31", a bunch papers implicating Liberty riders from their 2005 team. On the doping note labeled A.C., someone has written; "Must not be given to UCI".
The hand writing is of course interesting. It explains why the UCI never got "document 31" (perhaps better translated to "casemap 31" since it contains more than one document), and therefore why the UCI cleared Contador.
The index shows that the following documents (casemaps) relates to Liberty-Seguros riders. The casemaps marked MISSING is because Guardia Civil suddenly and without reason appears to have lost the name connections to the dopingplans in the casemaps, though the name references did exist at one time. Sometimes it appears that entire files have been removed:
dokument 8 - Angle Vicioso
dokument 9 - Izidro Nozal
dokument 10 - Roberto Heras
dokument 11 - Rene Andrle
dokument 12 - MISSING
dokument 13 - Small group of Liberty Seguros-ryttere (called AMA)
dokument 14 - Jan Hruska
dokument 15 - Jesús Hernández;
dokument 16 - Igor Gonzalez Galdeano
dokument 17-22 - MISSING
dokument 23 - Allan Davis
dokument 24 - Jörg Jaksche
dokument 25 - MISSING
dokument 26 - Michele Scarponi
dokument 27 - David Etxebarría
dokument 28 - Joseba Beloki
dokument 29 - Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (again)
dokument 30 - MISSING
These riders are Alberto Contadors teammates.
Someone http://www.sportensverden.dk/cycling/item.asp?id=4049 made a comparison between the above list and the entire team Liberty-Seguros.
Giampaolo Caruso, Koldo Gil (both mentionend in casemap 55 and 58)
Dariusz Baranowsky (stopped)
Nuno Ribeiro (busted for Epo)
Marcos Serrano (heavily incriminated in the Puerto files elsewhere)
That allegedly only leaves out two names from the Liberty-Seguros team, namely the two Spanish top talents; Alberto Contador and Luis Leon Sanchez, and Sanchez is, as mentionend before, son of a leading Guardia Civil police officer on the Puerto case.
And Alberto Contador must be A.C. from "document 31" all the rest of the riders in that bunch of dopingfiles are identified by the initials. Jörg Jacksche has confirmed that the dopingplan in document 31 labeled J.J. is his. He also confirmed that Dr. Fuentes handwriting was on the files labeled A.C.
And come on, except for perhaps Baranowsky, the entire Liberty-Seguros team has either been busted for doping, or are clearly Dr. Fuentes clients, or both. Why should Contador be the only clean rider on that team?
--
Regards
snowdog650
08-13-07, 12:13 PM
Is the next step to ban test tube babies or genetically engineered babies from competition when they become of age because they "may" have an advantage?
Um...
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
Um...
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
skanking biker
08-15-07, 06:50 AM
Um...
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
Its only a matter of time before we will be able to "custom order" babies. Couples are already doing it w/ regard to gender, birth defects/diseases etc. We already can extract dna and get a complete genetic makeup of a person and know mostly which genes control which traits. It wont be long before they will be able to extract DNA from someone's eggs or sperm and be able to select which ones to use based ona couple's preference. Gattica was not far off.
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
Its only a matter of time before we will be able to "custom order" babies. Couples are already doing it w/ regard to gender, birth defects/diseases etc. We already can extract dna and get a complete genetic makeup of a person and know mostly which genes control which traits. It wont be long before they will be able to extract DNA from someone's eggs or sperm and be able to select which ones to use based ona couple's preference. Gattica was not far off.
Waxbytes
08-15-07, 10:46 AM
Its only a matter of time before we will be able to "custom order" babies. Couples are already doing it w/ regard to gender, birth defects/diseases etc. We already can extract dna and get a complete genetic makeup of a person and know mostly which genes control which traits. It wont be long before they will be able to extract DNA from someone's eggs or sperm and be able to select which ones to use based ona couple's preference. Gattica was not far off.
Interesting, so in a few generations we will all look Swedish? Of course when we monotype for a specific look and set of abilities we also open ourselves up to the weaknesses of the specific type, known or unknown. Meaning that one virus takes down the whole group. Oh what a brave new world that hath such people in it!
Interesting, so in a few generations we will all look Swedish? Of course when we monotype for a specific look and set of abilities we also open ourselves up to the weaknesses of the specific type, known or unknown. Meaning that one virus takes down the whole group. Oh what a brave new world that hath such people in it!
Sci-Fi
08-15-07, 06:23 PM
Um...
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
Nope, there's already "Gene Therapy" aka "Therapeutic DNA" going on (and the WADA is very interested in trying to find a method to test for this and has had hearings about the process, benefits, possible abuses, etc) and used for many things (injury recovery, diseases, etc etc), so you basically have all the elements present to take the next step, which is the capability to engineer, manipulate, or splice DNA with the characteristics you want present/dominate. So you can have/create a bunch of test tube babies that one can study for stability and implant those deemed ideal into the womb and taken to full maturity. Nothing far fetched about it. People are paying big bucks now for sperm and eggs that have the dominate characteristics they desire for their future children..and there's even rumors of people that are in the process of having themselves cloned. There's an ethical question and nobody knows what will or can happen when an engineered person(s) procreates with the normal population.
WTF?
I think you are letting your user handle get the best of you, there, Sci-Fi.
Nope, there's already "Gene Therapy" aka "Therapeutic DNA" going on (and the WADA is very interested in trying to find a method to test for this and has had hearings about the process, benefits, possible abuses, etc) and used for many things (injury recovery, diseases, etc etc), so you basically have all the elements present to take the next step, which is the capability to engineer, manipulate, or splice DNA with the characteristics you want present/dominate. So you can have/create a bunch of test tube babies that one can study for stability and implant those deemed ideal into the womb and taken to full maturity. Nothing far fetched about it. People are paying big bucks now for sperm and eggs that have the dominate characteristics they desire for their future children..and there's even rumors of people that are in the process of having themselves cloned. There's an ethical question and nobody knows what will or can happen when an engineered person(s) procreates with the normal population.
Keith99
08-15-07, 06:28 PM
Interesting, so in a few generations we will all look Swedish? Of course when we monotype for a specific look and set of abilities we also open ourselves up to the weaknesses of the specific type, known or unknown. Meaning that one virus takes down the whole group. Oh what a brave new world that hath such people in it!
Oh you silly savage!
Oh you silly savage!
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