do i need to sloooowww dooowwwwnn?

[chill123]

i recently was looking at carmeichals workouts in one of his books. it has loads of different workouts in it (e.g. hill repeats, speed intervals, cadence intervals, power intervals etc etc) which generally take the line of something like 70 mins in zone 2, then maybe two intervals (10 mins each) in zone 4.

based on my max of 191 zone 2 is below 134 (under 70%). i find it virtually impossible to stay below this unless i am literally crawling along!

my max is calculated via the age route (220 minus age) which i know is not always accurate. that said i did a spin class in the gym last week and my reached 185 when i was very nearly if not flat out so the 191 cannot be that far off my max!!!

does 70% feel really slow to everyone else or am i doing something wrong?

[FatguyRacer]

Define crawling along.

My zone 1 rides average around 15-17mph depending on terrain. A zone one ride for a pro level guy is probably even faster.

Keep in mind that the fitter you get, the less harder you body has to work to maintain a certain workload.

Your not doing anything wrong, just keep at it. Your speed will pick up and your HR will drop.

[chill123]

i'll do a test and check my speed tonight at 70% with a reasonable cadence on the flat!

[Carbonfiberboy]

The more you ride, the faster zone 2 will become. Your heart's stroke volume will increase, and with that, your HR at a particular wattage (speed) will drop. Remember that Carmichael's workouts are designed for experienced competitive cyclists. I remember when I first started getting serious, reading that centuries should be ridden mostly in zone 2. I thought, "you've gotta be kidding! I can't ride that slow!" But now that's true for me, too. Your speed in zone 2 will gradually come up. Meanwhile don't worry about it. Ride in a HR range that will allow you to complete your ride and call it good!

[bfloyd]

Yes, your zone 2 HR can be very, very slow. It will vary from person to person as the fitness will be different from person to person. Just keep shifting down until you fall in your zone 2 range. You will think that because youy are going so slow there is no benefit from riding this way but your training will improve and will be noticed once again on your harder days.

[ericgu]

i recently was looking at carmeichals workouts in one of his books. it has loads of different workouts in it (e.g. hill repeats, speed intervals, cadence intervals, power intervals etc etc) which generally take the line of something like 70 mins in zone 2, then maybe two intervals (10 mins each) in zone 4.

based on my max of 191 zone 2 is below 134 (under 70%). i find it virtually impossible to stay below this unless i am literally crawling along!

my max is calculated via the age route (220 minus age) which i know is not always accurate. that said i did a spin class in the gym last week and my reached 185 when i was very nearly if not flat out so the 191 cannot be that far off my max!!!

does 70% feel really slow to everyone else or am i doing something wrong?

The low zone training is quite slow - it will definitely seem too slow until you get used to it.

Spend the time to do the carmichael field test. Without that you can't set your zones reasonably.

[chill123]

well i did about 40 miles last night sticking to 70% for 95% of the time. my avge speed was 14.8 which was primarily over the flat (minimal wind) with about 20 miles throught the city so i guess all in all maybe i am not goping as slow as i thought.

assumming i stick to some of carmeichals plans and do the majority of my riding in the lower zones how long do you think it will take for me to see some benefit?

i'm planning on doing a 160 miles ride (with a 4 hour break/ferry ride after 60 miles) at the end of september. am i doing the right thing doing one (maybe 2 long rides a week with a few one hour intervals, hill repeats etc thrown in during the week?

[within]

[QUOTE=chill123;5025789]based on my max of 191 zone 2 is below 134 (under 70%). i find it virtually impossible to stay below this unless i am literally crawling along!QUOTE]

If I'm reading your post correctly, you are setting your zones based on max HR, right?

All HR zone training that I have read about is based off of LTHR not Max HR. Check and see which one Carmeichals book references. That will make a huge difference.

[Carbonfiberboy]

well i did about 40 miles last night sticking to 70% for 95% of the time. my avge speed was 14.8 which was primarily over the flat (minimal wind) with about 20 miles throught the city so i guess all in all maybe i am not goping as slow as i thought.

assumming i stick to some of carmeichals plans and do the majority of my riding in the lower zones how long do you think it will take for me to see some benefit?

i'm planning on doing a 160 miles ride (with a 4 hour break/ferry ride after 60 miles) at the end of september. am i doing the right thing doing one (maybe 2 long rides a week with a few one hour intervals, hill repeats etc thrown in during the week?Mileage, mileage, mileage. That's your ticket. You need to work up to (and quite quickly) 200 mile weeks. My rule is that, for a conditioned, experienced cyclist, you can do in one day what your weekly average has been for the past few weeks. My other rule is that you can do, in one day, 3 times your long weekday training ride. Most people also say you should do 75% of your goal distance in at least one weekend ride. So work up to say, a couple 20 mile hard days, an 80 mile weekend ride, and a 30 and a 50 mile weekday ride. You work up to that, do that for a couple of weeks, rest a week, and you're good to go.

These "rules" don't apply to very long rides, but they do work up to at least double centuries.

On these zone 2 rides, I don't do the whole distance at a steady pace. I find it very helpful to "bump my legs" a few times during the ride. Go up a little roller while trying to hold gear and cadence. Sprint up a steep, short hill. Spin up really fast on a descent. Just play a little. You'll get better results.

As for how long to see benefit? You're seeing benefit now. You will continue to see benefit as long as you practice, as the Buddha would say.

[ericgu]

well i did about 40 miles last night sticking to 70% for 95% of the time. my avge speed was 14.8 which was primarily over the flat (minimal wind) with about 20 miles throught the city so i guess all in all maybe i am not goping as slow as i thought.

assumming i stick to some of carmeichals plans and do the majority of my riding in the lower zones how long do you think it will take for me to see some benefit?

i'm planning on doing a 160 miles ride (with a 4 hour break/ferry ride after 60 miles) at the end of september. am i doing the right thing doing one (maybe 2 long rides a week with a few one hour intervals, hill repeats etc thrown in during the week?

You don't say what the course is like, but generally, the first thing you need to work on is your aerobic system, which you get through the base miles. If you have gearing to handle the hills with the strength you have now, that's most important.

Intervals/tempo/hill repeats make you faster and stronger, but they won't have a big effect giving you the ability to ride farther. That comes from the base work.

It would help to know how long you have been doing this, what you're riding per week now, etc.

[chill123]

i've been riding (semi seriously) for about 2 months. that said I am pretty fit - i did a marathon in april and play sports/hit the gym regularly.

my weekly mileage is currently about 100 miles. 20/25 milers through the week and i've been trying to get longer rides in at the weekend currently about 40/60 miles. longest ride to date was 60 miles in 3hrs 25mins (some rolling hills).

the course i'll be riding has some biggish rolling hills in parts but is by no means mountains!

[ericgu]

60 miles in 3:25 puts you 17.5 MPH - there's nothing wrong with that. And with your prior training, you are likely fine on base aerobic training. The field test would be especially helpful to set your HR for tempo rides.

Your big challenge is around food and hydration - you need to be able to eat and drink appropriately along the way. I recommend you try to get into some 6 hour rides if possible.

I'd also recommend that you try to find your "ride all day" pace. Go out on at least one 4 hour sign, and try to take it really easy. You want to finish the 4 hours but still feel strong at the end.

I'd also recommend a good recovery drink during the break.