Bike fitness, HRM, Cadence

[will dehne]

I like to have some feedback on the following please:
I want to develop biking fitness for consecutive centuries on a Road bike (no luggage).

One method I have used is relying on cadence meter and maintain 80 to 100 RPM for the trip. I try not to go to my cadence limit since I want to go 100 to 150 miles/day. The speed is whatever the cadence produces with the strength I have. Wind, terrain and quality of road determines speed along with nutrition and fitness. A satisfactory average speed would be 16.5 MPH. (100 miles in ~6:00 HRS)

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The other method would be to use and rely on HRM and keep that in a reasonable range. For my age that would be 130 approximately.

[AStomper]

sixteen mph for six hours? I wish I could ride like that.

[Carbonfiberboy]

Yep, that's what you do. 130 would be a good HR. Could even be a little lower. I use 72-73% of max as a starting point for really long rides, trying to not let it ever get over about 86% of max. Then vary your gearing to produce the cadence you like, while holding that HR. You'll probably climb at a lower cadence than you use on the flat. Ignore your speed. Don't even keep it on the display unless you are pacelining, in which case it is useful to maintain what the person before was doing. Normally, I only watch HR and cadence and, if I'm following a cue sheet, mileage.

[rodrigaj]

I have found that training for consecutive centuries requires a good aerobic base (Zone 2 and Zone 3 workouts) and good pedaling techique (pedaling and coordination through neuromuscular response developed by spinning at cadences of 100 to 120 rpm for 15min).

Assuming that that has been accomplished, a century, without regard to speed, is easily accomplished by maintaining the Zone 2 / 85RPM to 90RPM combination.

Once you get past the initial century mental barrier and wish to do it in a certain time, you need to train with LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) as your primary focus. That would be pushing three to four 15 to 20 minute intervals with 5 min recovery times in the boundary between Zone 4 and 5. These should be training rides of 50 miles.

The biggest problem is recovery time between the training and the centuries. There are no hard rules on this since we are all different, but in general, as we get older these recovery times get longer. Listen to your body.

You didn't indicate if the centuries are supported or unsupported. Unsupported centuries would make your no baggage goal a challenge. I have a cyclocross bike which I have converted to my century bike. It has full fenders and a back rack for my Arkel bag and I keep my Arkel map case up front with me. Weather in Wisconsin prevents me from doing a century without fenders, so my road bike is out of the question.

Also...I finally broke down and bought a Garmin Edge 305 to help with the training and navigation. I'm kicking myself that I didn't get it in the spring. The garmin makes the polar 720i, that I had been using, seem like a toy.

Good Luck!

[within]

One method I have used is relying on cadence meter and maintain 80 to 100 RPM for the trip.
I don't know anyone who does this. Not that it's not acceptable or wrong, but how do you know what rpm yields the best training for a century, etc...

The other method would be to use and rely on HRM and keep that in a reasonable range. For my age that would be 130 approximately.

Reasonable range meaning? What if 130bpm is above your lactic threshold heart rate (LTHR)? Try a field test to get an approx LTHR. Warm up. Ride 30 minutes TT. The last 20 minutes at max sustainable effort. Take the average HR over the last 20 minutes. Use that as your LTHR and set your zones from there.

It's been a while since I read Joe Friels Book, "The Cyclist's Training Bible". Before you take my word for it, either go the library or buy it as he has the expertise to back up what he is talking about.

[ericgu]

I like to have some feedback on the following please:
I want to develop biking fitness for consecutive centuries on a Road bike (no luggage).

One method I have used is relying on cadence meter and maintain 80 to 100 RPM for the trip. I try not to go to my cadence limit since I want to go 100 to 150 miles/day. The speed is whatever the cadence produces with the strength I have. Wind, terrain and quality of road determines speed along with nutrition and fitness. A satisfactory average speed would be 16.5 MPH. (100 miles in ~6:00 HRS)

----------------------------

The other method would be to use and rely on HRM and keep that in a reasonable range. For my age that would be 130 approximately.

The big challenge in doing consecutive long days is nutrition and recovery. You need good on-bike nutrition, and you need good recovery nutrition right after the ride. My choice is endurox, but there are other good choices. You will be sore the next day for the first 30 minutes or so, but that goes away fairly quickly.

I'm not aware of any cadence-based training approaches - I'd suggest a HR-based one instead. Both Friel and Carmichael have good approaches.

I have used cadence and HR in combination on some long climbs recently (including a 13 mile 5% grade). I geared so that I could keep my cadence in a range that I knew wouldn't kill my legs and my HR in a range that I knew I could continue the whole time.

[DannoXYZ]

I like to have some feedback on the following please:
I want to develop biking fitness for consecutive centuries on a Road bike (no luggage).

One method I have used is relying on cadence meter and maintain 80 to 100 RPM for the trip. I try not to go to my cadence limit since I want to go 100 to 150 miles/day. The speed is whatever the cadence produces with the strength I have. Wind, terrain and quality of road determines speed along with nutrition and fitness. A satisfactory average speed would be 16.5 MPH. (100 miles in ~6:00 HRS)

----------------------------

The other method would be to use and rely on HRM and keep that in a reasonable range. For my age that would be 130 approximately.I wouldn't worry too much about cadence. As long as you use low enough gearing to prevent un-recoverable muscle-soreness (by the next day), you'll be fine.

What's more important in determining an optimal training plan for you is how the 16.5mph for 100miles relates to your LT and TT speeds. What's your TT-speed at LT for say.. a 30-60 minute time-trial? If it's 18mph your training plan would be a certain way, while a 22mph TT would show you need a different training programme.

[will dehne]

sixteen mph for six hours? I wish I could ride like that.

I participated in the America by Bicycle Fast south 2006. We were supposed to qualify for that tour at 100 miles in 6 hours. Some of us did it on a hydraulic resistance trainer. I was one of them and that was very hard to do. Proper hydration was the issue. I got water poisoning due to lack of knowledge.

[will dehne]

Yep, that's what you do. 130 would be a good HR. Could even be a little lower. I use 72-73% of max as a starting point for really long rides, trying to not let it ever get over about 86% of max. Then vary your gearing to produce the cadence you like, while holding that HR. You'll probably climb at a lower cadence than you use on the flat. Ignore your speed. Don't even keep it on the display unless you are pacelining, in which case it is useful to maintain what the person before was doing. Normally, I only watch HR and cadence and, if I'm following a cue sheet, mileage.

Thank you for your reply. I need feedback like yours.
I can sustain HR 125 for very long time on a trainer for instance or in Florida on the flats (undulating they call it).
I have pushed to HR 155 but seen stars doing that so I am not eager to repeat it. BTW, I am 65 and training for another across America Fast SAG supported tour next April. You comments show insight as the issues involved.
One observation on that tour: The tour leader stated that the HRM is not useful because of the top condition he is in. He never gets up to a high level he says.
OTOH, I can reach 125 HR very consistent on a trainer or the flats.

[will dehne]

I have found that training for consecutive centuries requires a good aerobic base (Zone 2 and Zone 3 workouts) and good pedaling techique (pedaling and coordination through neuromuscular response developed by spinning at cadences of 100 to 120 rpm for 15min).

Assuming that that has been accomplished, a century, without regard to speed, is easily accomplished by maintaining the Zone 2 / 85RPM to 90RPM combination.

Once you get past the initial century mental barrier and wish to do it in a certain time, you need to train with LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) as your primary focus. That would be pushing three to four 15 to 20 minute intervals with 5 min recovery times in the boundary between Zone 4 and 5. These should be training rides of 50 miles.

The biggest problem is recovery time between the training and the centuries. There are no hard rules on this since we are all different, but in general, as we get older these recovery times get longer. Listen to your body.

You didn't indicate if the centuries are supported or unsupported. Unsupported centuries would make your no baggage goal a challenge. ................................................................
Good Luck!

We are training for a fully SAG supported tour with the lightest bikes we can afford. My is Trek Madone.

I am reading your reply as a suggestion for Interval training. I believe that is right. I rather would go at a steady pace but you are in tune with the experts.

[will dehne]

I wouldn't worry too much about cadence. As long as you use low enough gearing to prevent un-recoverable muscle-soreness (by the next day), you'll be fine.

What's more important in determining an optimal training plan for you is how the 16.5mph for 100miles relates to your LT and TT speeds. What's your TT-speed at LT for say.. a 30-60 minute time-trial? If it's 18mph your training plan would be a certain way, while a 22mph TT would show you need a different training programme.

Danno- I am a very active biker in a very non biking area. I do most of my biking on undulating trails in WI, FL or IL. My personal best time on such a trail is 22 MPH and that is not under optimum conditions. There is wind and there are some cross roads requiring at least a slowdown. Around her, where I live, we have no place to do TT unobstructed. There is a place in FL and I will test it there. I am not interested to race but like to go again on this tour well prepared so that I will be in the top 50% of the bikers of that tour.

[will dehne]

I don't know anyone who does this. Not that it's not acceptable or wrong, but how do you know what rpm yields the best training for a century, etc...



Reasonable range meaning? What if 130bpm is above your lactic threshold heart rate (LTHR)? Try a field test to get an approx LTHR. Warm up. Ride 30 minutes TT. The last 20 minutes at max sustainable effort. Take the average HR over the last 20 minutes. Use that as your LTHR and set your zones from there.

It's been a while since I read Joe Friels Book, "The Cyclist's Training Bible". Before you take my word for it, either go the library or buy it as he has the expertise to back up what he is talking about.

Cadence
I just did two centuries in two days on limestone trails. I controlled cadence because wind and trail conditions were such that a average speed was hard to do. I am finding that 85 Rpm is a good average cadence for me and I can go up from there to do sprints up to over 100 RPM.
I am no expert but watch bikers who race for money. These bikers train a lot for high cadence. They do 150 RPM which I cannot reach.
HRM
I have done and sustained HR 125 for many hours. I am not sure if that is of value. It seems like the bikers capable of very high cadence have an edge. Just IMHO.

[will dehne]

The big challenge in doing consecutive long days is nutrition and recovery. You need good on-bike nutrition, and you need good recovery nutrition right after the ride. My choice is endurox, but there are other good choices. You will be sore the next day for the first 30 minutes or so, but that goes away fairly quickly.

I'm not aware of any cadence-based training approaches - I'd suggest a HR-based one instead. Both Friel and Carmichael have good approaches.

I have used cadence and HR in combination on some long climbs recently (including a 13 mile 5% grade). I geared so that I could keep my cadence in a range that I knew wouldn't kill my legs and my HR in a range that I knew I could continue the whole time.

Nutrition and Recovery
On the 2006 tour I used the following nutrition without harm:
Lots of Oatmeal, SAG food (:eek:), large milkshake recovery drink right after the ride, Steak and potatoes.

Cadence
I hear you but I am observing professionals at cadences I cannot do. I did this thread to find out if anyone concentrates on spinning at high cadence as something to be desired. So perhaps the high cadence bikers are not represented in this forum. They are out there. I met some in MI on Fixies doing 200 RPM.

[1honda]

I am just curious but I am 40 years old and in pretty good health but I believe my heart rate is much higher than most of the people that have responded. i just recently did a 100 mile ride and avereraged 18.3 mph and average heart rate of 168. Is that too high? It always starts out going way up 175-180 than after an hour or two it will usually drop down to 140-150 for the remainder of the ride. My resting heart rate is usually around 60.

[will dehne]

I am just curious but I am 40 years old and in pretty good health but I believe my heart rate is much higher than most of the people that have responded. i just recently did a 100 mile ride and averaged 18.3 mph and average heart rate of 168. Is that too high? It always starts out going way up 175-180 than after an hour or two it will usually drop down to 140-150 for the remainder of the ride. My resting heart rate is usually around 60.

My knowledge is limited to what I learned in 12 years on this BF.
HR is age dependent and varies for individuals on such factors as genetics. I remember other forum members with HR reported as yours and they were told not to worry. Certainly a sports doctor would be better authority than this forum.
FWW, my HR seldom goes over 140 at the speed you mention. But I am 65 and very good condition.