Electric Bikes - New Crystalyte Kit won't go-Need help Diagnosing

Hi Everyone,

After reading the board for a while, I bit the bullet and bought a 36V Brushless Crystalye kit. Worked fine for 3 days. Then this morning, I took it off the charger and it won't go. The light on the throttle is lit, but the wheel doesn't do aything at all when you press the throttle. Although I didn't buy it from them, I found the troubleshooting page at ebikes.ca and went thru the steps (as far as they go.). All the connections seem to be ok. I'm hoping I can narrow down the problem to maybe the controller or whatever, so that I don't have to ship the whole thing back. Anyway, here's the result of following the troubleshooting steps:

I have 39 volts coming from the batteries, so it isn't the batterries.

I have 5 volts going to the throttle, 1 volt when throttle off and 4 volts when throttle wide open, so if I understand right, the throttle is ok.

I checked voltage on the controller to each hall sensor contact in the controller and slowly spun the wheel. The troubleshooting info says the voltage is supposed to vary between zero and 12 volts as the wheel is spun. But I get a constant 14 volts all the time. The troubleshooting page stops there and doesn't say what the problem is or what to do next.

Is it the controller or maybe the hall sensors in the hub? Or maybe there are next steps I should go thru to narrow things down further. Any advice would be appreciated.

I did an intensive testing on my Crystalyte brushless motor 36V-72V controller as well. I was able to duplicate your situation with a constant 14V output to the motor by simulating the motor rotation with only two hall sensors. Therefore, I suspect one of the hall sensor inside the brushless motor needs to be replace. If you want to troubleshoot the issue further, try to measure the differences on the hall sensor wiring on between the blue, yellow, and green wires. So you can narrow down which one is bad.

Thanks for the reply,

I should have explained a bit better. I'm getting a 14 volt reading on every one of the 3 Hall sensor contacts when I test them separately to the ground wire. Spinning the wheel doesn't change anything. Still 14 volts on each one of them. Does that mean all 3 Hall snesors in the hub are bad or maybe the controller or could it maybe be a short in the wiring from the controller to the Hall sensors in the hub?

Thanks again for replying

I'd suggest you to rotate the wheels while you measure to voltages on each hall senors to see if the voltage will go up & down while the wheel is turning. Here's the troubleshooting website hopefully can assist you more.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/troubleshooting.htm

I checked voltage on the controller to each hall sensor contact in the controller and slowly spun the wheel. The troubleshooting info says the voltage is supposed to vary between zero and 12 volts as the wheel is spun. But I get a constant 14 volts all the time.

It is very unlikely that all 3 Hall sensors went bad at the same times.
If you measure the Hall sensors on the controller side with the connector unplug, you will get a constant 14V.
They should be checked with the connector plug-in.
Did you measure them with the connectors unplug?

No, I measured the voltage of each hall sensor at the controller with the hall sensor wires PLUGGED IN to the motor.
(As per the troubleshooting instructions I did have the MOTOR wires unplugged at the hub motor.)

Nothing happens when I rotate the wheel. Still get 14 volts for each of the 3 hall sensors.

If you are supposed to get 14 volts when the hall sensor plug is unplugged at the motor, does this mean there is maybe a broken wire in the hall sensor wires going to the motor and I am not getting a connection? Or could it also be a problem with the controller instead?

Thanks again for the help.

Unplug the hub motor. Concentrate on the hall sensors from the hub motor with it disconnected from the controller. On your voltage meter, switch to OHM mode to measure the resistance jump from each hall sensor on the hub motor while you rotate the wheel. You have at lease see some changes while you do that. The sensor that has no changes will be a suspected faulty sensor.

I measured the voltage of each hall sensor at the controller with the hall sensor wires PLUGGED IN to the motor.
(As per the troubleshooting instructions I did have the MOTOR wires unplugged at the hub motor.)

OK. This is the right way of measuring the hall signals.


Now let us do this part again.
1) Note all the color of wires for the hall connector.
Are your X-controller using:
y - yellow Hall signal
g - green Hall signal
b - blue Hall signal
r - red +ve Hall supply
bk- black common ?

2) If so, measure the voltage between red and black at the controller with hall wires PLUGGED IN to the motor.
You should get an voltage of about 6V to 9V.

3) Then measure the voltage between red and black at the controller with hall wires UNPLUGGED to the motor.
You should get an voltage of about 14V.

Report these readings before any further action. (2) and (3) should be done with the MOTOR wires unplugged at the hub motor.

Found the problem guys. Thanks for all your help. It turns out that the Hall sensors themselves are all ok.

The problem was broken wires in the hall sensor lines from the controller to the motor. I probably tightened down the cable ties to much and just broke them. Cut the insulation away and patched the wires together and all is ok.

Learned a lesson about leaving a touch of slack in those cable ties.

Thanks again everyone. You guys were a big help.

I do have one other question though. When the trottle is wide open, I get a bit of a whine out of the motor. Almost like a vibration type whine. When I slack off the throttle just a little bit the sound goes away. Is that normal?

Do you have a Crystalyte 400 series or X5 series motor? Typically, heavier motors produce more noise especially those with higher torque at high speed such as the 4011 & 509. :)

I have the 408 mounted on the front wheel.

I believe the whining noise is typical for your 408 motor. The 406 will produce the least amount of noise due to less torque. :)

Hello all,

I stumbled upon this thread and found it very relevant to a hub motor/controller that I am attempting to troubleshoot. I see that nobody has written on here in quite awhile but I figured I'd try here before starting a new topic.

I recently purchased a 25A Infineon Controller (http://ebikes.ca/store/photos/C3625-NC.jpg) to try and power a mystery hub motor (no markings... old Crystalyte maybe... see attached pic).

My first problem is that this mystery motor uses different colored wires (R,G,W,Bk, and another Bk) for its hall sensors than the controller (R,G,Bu,Y,Bk). After a little trial and error I was able to get the motor to spin but only for a few revolutions before it smoothly coasts to a stop (all other attempted combinations cause heavy jerking to an immediate stop). At first I thought it might be just weak batteries (pulling 39V off some lead-acids) but I noticed that if I repeatedly "throttle" the throttle I can maintain the motor spinning (powerfully) for an indefinite period of time...

I proceeded to try and check my throttle and hall sensors using ebikes troubleshooting page (which also let to some odd results) but let me leave it at this for now to see if maybe there is a more obvious solution.

Thanks-

Krussell, I've heard that not all controllers work with all motors. I would try going through one thing after another and trying to eliminate things.

You've eliminated the batteries so it has to be the controller or the motor. Is there a way to hook the motor directly up the battery? You might try that and see if you can get it to spin continuously. If you can, then it's got to be either the controller or the throttle.

Krussell, you might want to go here for help > http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

Lyen you're a champ- 2 min and I got to a forum on exactly this problem.

Thanks again-

Let me know if you need any other help or parts over at the ES forum. I will be more than happy to help you. :)