Touring - Stealth camping: other strategies, and pitfalls to avoid

Most discussions of stealth camping cover the basics well enough (Ken Kifer's site does a good job).

There are some other points, though, that rarely get mentioned.

Not long ago, I was stealth camping on the far side of a field. The land sloped down at the edge of the field, and then leveled out. Parts of the level area couldn't be seen from anywhere else. It seemed almost perfect.

I did have the thought, though, just before going to sleep, that it seemed like just the sort of place that local youths might choose for making out.

And sure enough, I was awakened (shortly after falling asleep) by some laughter and horsing around. They were just around the bend a bit, maybe forty feet away. The girl seemed to have had a few, and the guy seemed to have a lot of staying power. It was somewhat amusing at first, but then I couldn't get back to sleep. In the end, it went on for hours, and I finally gave up hoping they would leave soon. I left. They seemed a bit surprised, but continued more or less uninterrupted. I ended up with very little sleep, which doesn't help the quality of the next day.

So, that's one thing they don't tell you about.

Another: Sometimes pot growers find the good, hidden places too. They are also stealth-minded. It can be awkward if you are discovered near a growing area. (This has actually happened.)

There are probably some other things to avoid as well, and some other points about stealth camping that are not always covered. If anyone else has any experiences or ideas along these lines, it would be interesting to hear more.

I once camped during a rainstorm in the living room of a "haunted house" on a back road, hoping that the rain would deter visitors. At midnight a couple of carloads of giggly teens arrived and entered the dark house. I sat up in my sleeping bag and said "Hi!" and they all saw their lives flash before their eyes as they screamed and tumbled out the door.

A lot of the fun of camping -- "stealth" or otherwise -- is learning how to read and deal with the landscape. You get better at choosing sites, better at relying on fewer gadgets to stay comfortable.

Agreed.

You need to think like the other people in the land. If the whole situation just opens up for you, path gently downhill, clearing, etc... assume others will respond to the same cues. If You don't want to share the land with them, try to be a little contrarian. Any fisherman or hunter whether trying to figure out the game or avoid the competition will have a feel for this kind of analysis. This also has to do with your security. If you are worried about that consider that people who might harm you are going to zone in on the places where they can meet people...

It's easy enough to figure out if the land you are going to stealth on has been used by humans recently. Garbage and paths are an easy tell. I guarantee you, if it's a local place that the youths hang out, you'll find beer cans and all sorts of other crap. Move on to a better spot that show **NO TRACE** of human activity if possible.

silence and earth tone clothing or camo to match the flora are your friend. Limit the use of lights, or use a red filter. Better yet use a keychain red LED and shield the lens. Limit or eliminate the use of fire, use heat tabs or self heating MRE's instead. Ditch the noisy nylon covered sleeping bag and use a warm (and silent) wool blanket instead. For shelter, lay the bike down and drape a tarp (greenish or camo) over the bike and yourself.

keep it quiet, ultralight wieght and simple.

think hovel, hideyhole, thickets, not open spaces.

also, over the tops of little hills away from the road. and gated fire roads. Behind brush piles on clearcuts.

Have those of you that stealth camp regularly had any experiences trying to gain permission to camp? I'm somewhat mixed on the whole stealth camping thing. I've asked and been granted camping access on many farms, church grounds, etc. over the years. Never felt the need to hide out. We have a home on several acres. At one end of our property is a nice wooded area with a pond. A perfect place to camp. If I were approached by a group of touring cyclists, I would most likely give them my ok to camp there, as well as offer up a meal and a shower. On the other hand, if I were to take a late night run with the dogs (something I do fairly often) and found people camped there without my knowledge, they would be promptly escorted from the property. I guess I'm curious more than anything. What is the motivation behind stealth camping?

For me at least, it's not about hiding or not asking. I've asked to camp many times, and with rare exception folks say yes and the experience is good.

Sometimes, though -- especially if you tour without much of a script -- you wind up in a place where you'd like to camp but there's nobody around to ask. Or there are people to ask, but it's an uncomfortable place to spend the night. That's when it's valuable to be comfortable with the idea of melting into the landscape for the night.

Have those of you that stealth camp regularly had any experiences trying to gain permission to camp? I'm somewhat mixed on the whole stealth camping thing. I've asked and been granted camping access on many farms, church grounds, etc. over the years. Never felt the need to hide out. We have a home on several acres. At one end of our property is a nice wooded area with a pond. A perfect place to camp. If I were approached by a group of touring cyclists, I would most likely give them my ok to camp there, as well as offer up a meal and a shower. On the other hand, if I were to take a late night run with the dogs (something I do fairly often) and found people camped there without my knowledge, they would be promptly escorted from the property. I guess I'm curious more than anything. What is the motivation behind stealth camping?

#1 is Safety. If you have ever experienced being swarmed in a regular campsite by other campers, assualted and your gear thrown onto the fire, you'll understand why some stealth camp. Others do it to save money, and by "stealthing" no one knows they are there. Yet others do it for the seclusion and peacefull sleep, away form the noise of highways, trucks, campers, boom boxes etc.

I stealth camp because I'm usually off in the sticks anyway and finding someone to ask permission from is a bit difficult. its' simply better to be hidden from prying eyes versus camping where any passerby can sees ya.

I have thought of stealth camping... do any of you know women who do it? I live in South Carolina and go bike camping most weekends. Out Friday and roll in Sunday late afternoon. I am getting tired with the Park System... Must reserve two days, loud!, packed if by a Lake. RV's etc... National Forest parks are better. I have to say though "it's hot!" and at the end of a days riding a shower seems a little more then a perk. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I have thought of stealth camping... do any of you know women who do it? I live in South Carolina and go bike camping most weekends. Out Friday and roll in Sunday late afternoon. I am getting tired with the Park System... Must reserve two days, loud!, packed if by a Lake. RV's etc... National Forest parks are better. I have to say though "it's hot!" and at the end of a days riding a shower seems a little more then a perk. I'd love to hear your thoughts.


Hy Krsytal! although i'm sure that you can defend yourself properly, and have appropraite situational awareness to that matter, i would be a bit concerned for your personal safety if stealth camped alone. Specifically, should an incident arise, would anyone hear you yell for help or be able to find you?

again, i'm not saying that you or any woman cannot defend themselves, just saying the above scenario is possible.

I have thought of stealth camping... do any of you know women who do it? I live in South Carolina and go bike camping most weekends. Out Friday and roll in Sunday late afternoon. I am getting tired with the Park System... Must reserve two days, loud!, packed if by a Lake. RV's etc... National Forest parks are better. I have to say though "it's hot!" and at the end of a days riding a shower seems a little more then a perk. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Josie Dew is an Englishwoman who has stealth camped in a variety of countries. She has written about it in her books. Her first book is many people's favorite. Amazon.com has more information.

If you are in areas where you are very unlikely to be discovered by others while stealth camping, your safety is higher.

I agree that there are special concerns for women, and that having some kind of effective self-defense capabilities makes sense. Pepper spray is one possibility.

That and good stealth calls, and sound judgement.

***************
Strangely enough, though, I keep hearing statistics cited that say that men are far more likely than women to be the victims of virtually all categories of violent crime.

Hello Krystal, nice to see another person from the Palmetto state in here. I honestly can't answer your question because I'm a guy but I've never had a problem stealth camping in South Carolina. I hate organized campsites because of the noise. However one journal I read that was written by a female who stealthed camped her entire trip across the US, up to Alaska, and back again might give you some answers or some level of comfort.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=QzzM&doc_id=430&v=QF

She is from North Carolina I believe. Therre is a contact button and you can leave a comment on her message board and perhaps she'll respond.

The key to stealth camping is making sure you get a site off the road, out of sight, without traces of human in the area (garbage, noise, fences etc).

Good luck!

I've done some stealth camping, but it's been on Crown land (government or public land) on back roads and away from settlements. I can be within sight of the road and yet almost invisible if I'm behind the trees. The only time someone might see me is when I'm packing up or unpacking. The ground sheet I use under my tent is a blue tarp which is visible.

When I'm doing this kind of camping, I'll go out of my way to leave no signs of my presence. I'll just pitch my tent, spend the night and leave the next morning.

Perhaps stealth camping is the wrong term to use. If I know land is privately owned or if I see the No Hunting or No Trespassing signs, I'll look for another place to stop for the night.

This is simply about showing the kind of respect to the land and the owners that I'd like to receive.

I've done some stealth camping, but it's been on Crown land (government or public land) on back roads and away from settlements. I can be within sight of the road and yet almost invisible if I'm behind the trees. The only time someone might see me is when I'm packing up or unpacking. The ground sheet I use under my tent is a blue tarp which is visible.

When I'm doing this kind of camping, I'll go out of my way to leave no signs of my presence. I'll just pitch my tent, spend the night and leave the next morning.

Perhaps stealth camping is the wrong term to use. If I know land is privately owned or if I see the No Hunting or No Trespassing signs, I'll look for another place to stop for the night.

This is simply about showing the kind of respect to the land and the owners that I'd like to receive.



Yea I do the same thing when Im out touring.

Have those of you that stealth camp regularly had any experiences trying to gain permission to camp?
I prefer to almost always camp in plain sight and with permission. I don't have a desire to stealth camp, but I will in a pinch. It just is not usually necessary, so I don't.

As far as safety goes, it would seem safer to be in plain sight in a small town than hiding somewhere in the bushes and out of sight. That said I feel pretty safe either way.

#1 is Safety. If you have ever experienced being swarmed in a regular campsite by other campers, assualted and your gear thrown onto the fire, you'll understand why some stealth camp.

That sounds like there's a story behind it?

Hy Krsytal! although i'm sure that you can defend yourself properly, and have appropraite situational awareness to that matter, i would be a bit concerned for your personal safety if stealth camped alone. Specifically, should an incident arise, would anyone hear you yell for help or be able to find you?

again, i'm not saying that you or any woman cannot defend themselves, just saying the above scenario is possible.

The whole point about stealth camping is that hopefully there will be no one around to make you scream for help :) And the same question applies to a man as well.

It's worth pointing out that being in a campground does not necessarily protect you from the 'baddies' either. Just ask the two young women who were attacked in NZ. Just hope you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time and perhaps consider taking a self-defense course or carrying some pepper spray for that unlikely situation. That's a good move even if you never stealth camp.

Dervla Murphy springs to mind as the classic example of a woman who's stealth camping and been in many other adventurous solo situations before, for decades now.

#1 is Safety. If you have ever experienced being swarmed in a regular campsite by other campers, assualted and your gear thrown onto the fire, you'll understand why some stealth camp. Others do it to save money, and by "stealthing" no one knows they are there. Yet others do it for the seclusion and peacefull sleep, away form the noise of highways, trucks, campers, boom boxes etc.

I have never had any of these things happen to me in a campground. I'm pretty sure I can't think of another example of such things happening...well until now that is. Sounds like you just had a day of bad luck. I stealth when it gets to late to make it to a good campground. I also stealth when I'm an area that has little or not services. I like doing it from time to time for the quite it provides and of course saving a little money isn't bad either.

When I do stealth camp I go out of my way to not be seen. I also don't make camp until dusk and I'm up and gone with the sunrise. I leave no trace behind as well.

I stealth camp a lot, but only with sleeping bag and tarp. I have a tent but use it only when in organized campsites.

A tent is often much more visible than a person in a dark green or black bag.

You will be much more aware of your environment when just in a bag (even when sleeping, your hearing and sense of smell still work) , but this ability gets blunted from sleeping indoors (and in tents as the walls and roof give a false sense of security). Your ability to detect danger and defend yourself is thus much greater. Inside a tent you're basically unaware and helpless, not good imo...

Practice getting out of your bag quickly, don't zip up all the way, may sound silly but believe me you can get VERY quick at this... If the opening is wider than your shoulders you can jump up and the bag will fall around your feet... I have had cause to do this in earnest a few times, and the effect is quite scary ;)

If it rains you can wrap yourself in the tarp... In periods of extended rainfall I find organized campsites and put my tent up

+1 on laying your bike down and covering it with a tarp (doesn't have to be so large)

Oh and trust your feelings... If it don't feel right, find somewhere that does, sometimes theres no conscious reason why, but your instincts should be trusted imho...

I guess I'm curious more than anything. What is the motivation behind stealth camping?

For us, it feels like asking permission is placing a burden on the person. Here we are - a family with two little kids - asking to camp on their property. Even if they don't feel comfortable with it, how can they say no? We put them in a very awkward position by asking. Don't get me wrong - we still ask a LOT. But if there is a perfect spot for heading back in and hiding, we will do it.

It also depends on how tired we are. If we ask, 95% of the time, we end up having a meal and conversation with the owners - which we love. But - those days when we are dog tired and just want to set up the tent and sleep... well, having a meal and conversation is not what we want!

I hear you Nancy... I find there is a sense of freedom sleeping in a secluded spot on this planet of ours, so I very rarely ask permission to stay on someone's land, makes me feel like a "guest".

I don't particularly like the term "stealth camping", I'm neither being "stealthy", just finding a quiet secluded spot, and not "camping", just sleeping in my bag under the stars... knowwhatImean? :)

We have a home on several acres. At one end of our property is a nice wooded area with a pond. A perfect place to camp. If I were approached by a group of touring cyclists, I would most likely give them my ok to camp there, as well as offer up a meal and a shower.

tcmers: how is someone to know that those woods and that pond belong to you? If you're riding along and come to a wooded area, unmarked and unfenced, whose permission do you obtain?

Well in Washington state if you don't have permission it's called trespassing if your on private land. You also don't have to post your land with signs. It's your job to ask permission of the landowner.

Keep in mind that stealth camping on private property is trespassing and is illegal. In Texas (and possibly in other states) the land owner can legally shoot you if you are found on private property after dark. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to defecate on private property,even if you aren't technically trespassing.

Well in Washington state if you don't have permission it's called trespassing if your on private land. You also don't have to post your land with signs. It's your job to ask permission of the landowner.

uh if I don't see signs how can I know it's private property and try to find the landowner?
Obvious signs of private property are fences, worked land, orchards, dirt tracks (maybe), barking dogs etc... but if this isn't the case and I haven't seen a farmhouse or whatever for miles and there are no signs, I assume it's not private property, and who the heck am I meant to ask??

Well in Washington state if you don't have permission it's called trespassing if your on private land. You also don't have to post your land with signs. It's your job to ask permission of the landowner.

Incorrect.

According to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010:


A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.


This exact wording is also found in the New York State penal law. I suspect the case is similar in most states. I'm not a lawyer, but I read that as any land which is unimproved, unfenced, and unposted is essentially open to public use.

ah dang it, I don't want to get into one of those forum arguements about ALWAYS abiding by the letter of the law, so I'll just leave it here, ok... no hard feelings :)

Incorrect.

According to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.52.010:


This exact wording is also found in the New York State penal law. I suspect the case is similar in most states. I'm not a lawyer, but I read that as any land which is unimproved, unfenced(no crops), and unposted is essentially open to public use.


Well you learn something new every single day... Does spell out jumping a fence as trespassing. Posted or not. Also any farm field can't be considered unimproved so same rule applies. So it would be timber areas or unfenced land that is wild? That would seem to be what they are getting at?

Keep in mind that stealth camping on private property is trespassing and is illegal. In Texas (and possibly in other states) the land owner can legally shoot you if you are found on private property after dark. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to defecate on private property,even if you aren't technically trespassing.


I am not a lawyer but, looked into this and I found out that you are only able to shoot if you are threatened, you can't just shoot on site, this is still murder. Ofcourse this does not help you if the local hick thinks this is true as you'll already be dead.

Force used has to be reasonable. See below for full law.

What I found more worrying when looking into this was people were more concerned of the legal consequences of shooting someone rather than the taking of someones life.

exas Penal Code states:
9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.

(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property isjustified in using force against another when and to the degree theactor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the forceis immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.


9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

I really doubt that you can just shoot someone who is on your property after dark.

Look at 9.41 and 9.42

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm


Keep in mind that stealth camping on private property is trespassing and is illegal. In Texas (and possibly in other states) the land owner can legally shoot you if you are found on private property after dark. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to defecate on private property,even if you aren't technically trespassing.

I would like to see someone in the morning who camped out around here in the summer, in only a sleeping bag, especially if you camped in tall grass and weeds. Here in Illinois you would be fodder for mosquitoes and chiggers, and after a short while you would probably end up with Lyme's disease from ticks.
I only camp where the grass and weeds have been cleared, and always in a tent.

I would like to see someone in the morning who camped out around here in the summer, in only a sleeping bag, especially if you camped in tall grass and weeds. Here in Illinois you would be fodder for mosquitoes and chiggers, and after a short while you would probably end up with Lyme's disease from ticks.
I only camp where the grass and weeds have been cleared, and always in a tent.

I live in Illinois, and have slept in a bag, under a tree, on many a night. Without a problem. Also, it's really easy to weatherproof (and bugproof) yourself, rolled up in an 8X10 plastic, woven tarp.

From my experience just riding along the road. If they want you out you will know it. I seen people put tires on fence posts with no trespassing signs on them. I also seen people put no trespassing signs on National Forrest land.

Fences are very common on public lands, so a fence is not a very good indicator. In Arizona if there is no Trespassing signs I just walk right in. On NF and BLM land I need to remove a gate to gain access.

For me the risky stealth camping happens @ 0000 hours and I am beat from riding all day and I am stuck in a bunch of private land. I just find a cozy spot and screw it I am tired. Very rare out West I might add, that and I found people are very accepting to your situation.

I like to call it dispersed camping or depending where I am dispersed resting.

Hi,
which book are you talking about as there seems to be quite a few.
Cheers

I am not a lawyer but, looked into this and I found out that you are only able to shoot if you are threatened, you can't just shoot on site, this is still murder. Ofcourse this does not help you if the local hick thinks this is true as you'll already be dead.

Force used has to be reasonable. See below for full law.

What I found more worrying when looking into this was people were more concerned of the legal consequences of shooting someone rather than the taking of someones life.

exas Penal Code states:
9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.

(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property isjustified in using force against another when and to the degree theactor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the forceis immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.


9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Thanks for searching for and posting that information. I was alerted to that law by this story (http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/local/boy_shot_in_liberty_county_died_05-08-2009.html).


"It wasn't their (the Muhs) property," DeFoor said. "State statute says legally you can shoot a trespasser at night on your property, but not on the road, and that's where they were

What matters sometimes is not what the law says, but what the person with the gun thinks the law says. Too late to dispute it in court if you are dead.

Let's take a deep breathe everyone.

With the possible exception of Texas, it is possible to legally stealth camp almost anywhere. In fact many countries have laws protecting those who wander.

First off let's establish what stealth camping is:
camping overnight on land

unmarked or signed
not fenced or improved
without a fire
leaving first thing in the morning
using Leave No Trace principles


Many people confuse stealth camping with wild camping or gypsy camping. Wild camping is camping is openly camping in an area well away from habitation. Gypsy camping is openly camping in public areas without any regard for restrictions.

I hate it when people type in all upper case:
STEALTH CAMPING IS NOT ANY OF THESE!

When I arrive at a site, I look for any indication that this may not be a good site such as garbage on the ground, fences, improvements, signs or markings. I never make a fire or cook in a stealth site.

In civilized countries trespass laws allow that you are only trespassing when told, and when told if you leave, you are not trespassing.

Further, if you are a good stealth camper, no one will know you are there. You arrive late and don't cook and you leave first thing in the morning. You follow the stealthing and Leave No Trace rules.

Stealthing allows me to really get close to nature. Have you ever slept in the forest alone? It also is about self reliance and being at one with my creator.

Now exhale.

First off let's establish what stealth camping is:
camping overnight on land

unmarked or signed
not fenced or improved
without a fire
leaving first thing in the morning
using Leave No Trace principles



The legality of this is determined by state and local law. To be certain of the legality of our actions, we must consult the relevant law in each jurisdiction. Of course we won't do this and instead we take our chances willing to suffer any consequences. And there usually are none.

Obtaining permission is not stealth camping, right Stokell?

I live in Illinois, and have slept in a bag, under a tree, on many a night. Without a problem. Also, it's really easy to weatherproof (and bugproof) yourself, rolled up in an 8X10 plastic, woven tarp.

Bugs must like me. I itch just reading your post. I hate when they bite your knuckles. I don't use bug spray, and even if I do any part not sprayed gets bit.
When I was young and didn't care I camped like you said and always slept like crap.

I once camped during a rainstorm in the living room of a "haunted house" on a back road, hoping that the rain would deter visitors. At midnight a couple of carloads of giggly teens arrived and entered the dark house. I sat up in my sleeping bag and said "Hi!" and they all saw their lives flash before their eyes as they screamed and tumbled out the door.


I'll bet you're still kicking yourself for leaving the hockey mask and chainsaw at home.

Stealth and wild camping are downright fun. Sorta like a treasure hunt to find the right spot. No "destination obsession." Just pitch when you're ready to end the ride day. Break it up with an occasional campground for the shower and socializing and you've had a great tour.

Thanks for searching for and posting that information. I was alerted to that law by this story (http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/local/boy_shot_in_liberty_county_died_05-08-2009.html).

That's a terrible story, as I said I find it unbelievable the sense or righteousness the property owner has, sure he has rights to be angry e.t.c but shooting e.t.c Crazy.


What matters sometimes is not what the law says, but what the person with the gun thinks the law says. Too late to dispute it in court if you are dead.

Yep, couldn't agree more.

Keep in mind that stealth camping on private property is trespassing and is illegal. In Texas (and possibly in other states) the land owner can legally shoot you if you are found on private property after dark. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to defecate on private property,even if you aren't technically trespassing.That's just not true. It is not trespassing nor is it illegal to be on private property. Texas law states:

30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

"only able to shoot if you are threatened"

What constitutes a threat. Not someone asleep on you property inside a sleeping bag, inside a tent. But it might also be a lot less than one would otherwise hope.

"In civilized countries trespass laws allow that you are only trespassing when told, and when told if you leave, you are not trespassing."

In Ontario where we are, there is a presumption also that certain kinds of land are occupied, and that would extend to a large percentage of the land in southern Ontario.

how do u determine if its Private/State?

1. is it legal
2. someone might shoot me
3. a bear might attack
4. deep breath perspective

Like many of you I think about #1-3. Do you think we all know #4 is correct; that the most difficult part of a journey is the first step (pedal)?

BTW, last night we arrived late at night, tented under beautiful night ski, folded up at dawn and bird serenade and celebrated "stealth-ness". We rode our charity ride and are home. Now I'm planning a 4 day stealth-ified trip. just go.

I attempted to stealth camp one time. It occurred two years ago while on a two day gravel road/oil road tour down the Dry Cimmaron (sp?)River in Northern New Mexico. I had ridden about 55 miles and pulled off in a grove of cedar trees to rest a bit at about 6:00 p.m. I got about 30 yards off the county road because the shade was better and pulled out my thermarest and bag to take a nap. I also pulled out my stove and mixed up some noodles or something like that. I had just settled in to eating and was pondering going to sleep when a rancher roared up in his pickup. I sat there.
"What are you doing on my land?"
"Taking a rest."
"The wife saw you with her binoculars and wants you to come to the house."
"Okay"

Turns out, this rancher knew my grandfather when he was a child and my grampa was the foreman of a neighboring ranch.

We had a great time visiting and eating home cooked ranch food.

I ended up stealth camping on a soft bed.

I woulda been scared ****less countrydirt