Advocacy & Safety - A&S your advice is horrible.

I just got back from my nightly ride where I was just hit by two chicks in a crappy old Honda Civic. They are racing me from light to light, and then they buttonhook me into a lot. I go down. I pop back up and go to the driver. "Give me your insurance card". "What are you talking about?" she replies. "You just hit me, give me your insurance card". Passenger "is this a scam?". Me "my bike is worth more then your car". Them "f-off". I try to get behind the car but they peel out and drive away. So I did everything right here. I could not get the plate because it is California and the stock plate would be illegal in most states because it is so confusing.

I remember the outrage about the guy that punched the driver. I did nothing, and now I have no results. I am so pissed I cannot even speak. What did trying to do the right thing do for me? Nothing. Lesson- nobody cares about cyclists.

I totally agree with your sentiments. Next time just rip their liscence plate off of the car.

I totally agree with your sentiments. Next time just rip their liscence plate off of the car.

I was just thinking about how I was frantically trying to put their plate # into my phone, when I could of just taken a picture. I am so pissed.

that's what a ulock is for

;)

frame pump or lock smashing windshield or rear window in. Sounds like they were hating. If that happened to me, I would smash a major part of the car in self defense. Easier to catch them if they run.

something along the lines of one woman being silent, but get a bunch of them together and you have a rowdy crowd...

I was just thinking about how I was frantically trying to put their plate # into my phone, when I could of just taken a picture. I am so pissed.
I feel ya.

That plate number woulda nailed 'em.

I had a transit courier hassle me at the same place/time repeatedly. I couldn't see his plate, he got away too fast. I e-mailed transit and they were on my side, but without the number, I was screwed.

One morning, I finally got that whole number.

After reporting it, I saw that driver once or twice more. As they drove by, they were slow and careful. Never again a problem. (And the lady who I'd been e-mailing was happy they finally got the jerk.)

One small victory for mankind. :)

(Gee, I would hate to see those girls in the Honda blubbering tears if they got caught.... :D )

I must be the only one trying to figure out how you couldn't avoid an accident while racing from light to light.

I must be the only one trying to figure out how you couldn't avoid an accident while racing from light to light.

We were at a red light. The light turned green. I started going. They were lagging (I figure). They floored it. They turned right into a parking lot right after crossing the intersection. I get hit.

I could have avoided the "accident" if I would have yelled in the open window of the car when we were stopped at the light- like I should have for buzzing me. I did not assert myself, now I am in pain.

How many times have people in A&S suggested practice remembering plate numbers long enough to write it down?
How many in A&S and VC have suggested not riding to the right of motorist, especially at intersections or driveways?
Who in A&S suggested you race motorist from light to light?
Who in A&S suggested you should rudely demand the insurance card?

How many times have people in A&S suggested practice remembering plate numbers long enough to write it down?
How many in A&S and VC have suggested not riding to the right of motorist, especially at intersections or driveways?
Who in A&S suggested you race motorist from light to light?
Who in A&S suggested you should rudely demand the insurance card?

I was with you until the last two. What should I have done? Pulled over so they could get way ahead? Thanked them for almost killing me? Thats f'n ridiculous, and the whole problem. Get real.

Also have you ever seen a CA plate? Its the most random assortment of letters and numbers imaginable, with no space.

Also have you ever seen a CA plate? Its the most random assortment of letters and numbers imaginable, with no space.

CA plates are not random. They start with a single number from 1 to 5 (new plates start with 5), three letters, then three numbers. ex: 3XLB554.

Did you call the police to report them leaving the scene of the accident? If you had a good vehicle and occupant description they may have been able to detain them for identification even with no or a partial plate #.

I live in California too and I find the plates fairly easy to remember. It helps if you know the pattern. Generally, Passenger cars are #XXX###, pickup trucks are #X#####, and trailers are #XX#### where # is a number and X is a letter. This applies to all newer plates with the white reflective background. The older plates (blue or black plate with yellow letters) are different but they're only on very old vehicles that have never needed to have their plates replaced.

What did you get? You got home without getting charged for something yourself. You also got home alive.

Why did you not get the plate number and call local law enforcement to report the incident before making demands of the driver? Your biggest mistake after the crash happened was talking to the other party, other than to check for injuries, before law enforcement arrived.

If it had been me and you demanded my insurance information, I would have told you that you would just have to wait until law enforcement got there. The ruder the demand, the ruder I get with the reply.

If you find your local plates confusing, all the more reason you need to practice remembering them.

What on earth were you doing parked beside a car at a light? The only place for a bike at a light is in front or behind cars ( preferably in front) certainly not beside.

Why did you not get the plate number and call local law enforcement to report the incident before making demands of the driver? Your biggest mistake after the crash happened was talking to the other party, other than to check for injuries, before law enforcement arrived.

If it had been me and you demanded my insurance information, I would have told you that you would just have to wait until law enforcement got there. The ruder the demand, the ruder I get with the reply.

If you find your local plates confusing, all the more reason you need to practice remembering them.

From the time I got up off the ground and walked over to them they were on the defensive. If I would have not said anything they would have just taken off immediately. From accident to them peeling out to leave was less then 2 minutes. They had no intention of doing the right thing from the start. I don't exactly live in Mayberry either. There was a 12 year old who saw the whole thing and I asked him if he got the plate. He says "those *****es NAILED you- I saw the whole thing". I say, "did you get the plate"? "nope" And then he just takes off. Others saw it also but nobody wanted to say anything.


What on earth were you doing parked beside a car at a light? The only place for a bike at a light is in front or behind cars ( preferably in front) certainly not beside.

I was in front of the car at the light. I started through the intersection and they floored it to go around me and immediately turn right from passing on my left. I apologize for not being clear.

Oh ok, I guess try to get a lic plate numbr then in the future. At least you weren't seriously injured.

When I first started driving, getting the license plate number as I approached the vehicle was hammered into me relentlessly. If the area you ride in has this happen a lot, maybe it's time to velcro a Sharpie somewhere convenient, and write it on the back of your hand as you approach the car.
The witnesses that were there would also have been witnesses if you had responded physically to them in any way. I know it sucks, but at least you're not facing any charges as the end result of the stupidity of someone else.

I just got back from my nightly ride where I was just hit by two chicks in a crappy old Honda Civic...

What did trying to do the right thing do for me? Nothing. Lesson- nobody cares about cyclists.

Our apologies. As interested individuals, we make the rules of the road and dictate how each individual out there behaves. Also, we are directly responsible for every interaction you have out there.

Your actions were obviously directed by the interaction on this list.

On behalf of everyone on the list, please let me apologize for the fact that there are people out there who don't give a damn about the safety of others.


What did you get? You got home without getting charged for something yourself. You also got home alive.

What was your question again?

Allan

that's what a ulock is for;)Burrito Eater, don't get a vandalism or assault charge filed against you by following that advice above...whether it was intended as a "joke" or not.

Simply secure as much of the license plate as possible, driver & passenger descriptions, vehicle description, and promptly telephone the police. Speak loudly, slowly, and clearly so dispatch doesn't need to ask you to repeat. Request an ambulance if you received bad road rash or anything else that needs medical attention. Good luck on a speedy and full recovery from any injuries.

What did you get? You got home without getting charged for something yourself. You also got home alive.

Amen.

Next time: 911

There might have been a cop a block up the road.

What's a " ulock " ?

What's a " ulock " ?In the event described by the original poster, it would have been a poor technique because the cyclist would have subsequently been in trouble with the police.
Some riders unfortunately advocate striking cars with u-locks (like the typical one pictured below) as a form of "street" negotiation:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/krytonite%20new%20york%20lock%2006.jpg

I was with you until the last two. What should I have done? Pulled over so they could get way ahead?

Bingo! The best defense against erratic or hostile driving is to position yourself behind the jackass. Then you can keep an eye on them, and if they U-turn or pull over to wait for you, you will be able to evade them before they have a second chance to kill you.

Yesterday i acted on instinct and SLAMMED my brakes on, sure enough the car beside me suddeny turned right as i slammed the brakes on. Had i not braked they would have broadsided me, instead my emergency braking put me JUST behind the rear bumper. Clueless driver was on her cell phone jibberjabbing away ...idiots

Your first mistake was confusing opinions with advice. Your second mistake was getting yourself into the situation.

Your first mistake was confusing opinions with advice. Your second mistake was getting yourself into the situation.

True.

I just got back from my nightly ride where I was just hit by two chicks in a crappy old Honda Civic. They are racing me from light to light, and then they buttonhook me into a lot. I go down. I pop back up and go to the driver. "Give me your insurance card". "What are you talking about?" she replies. "You just hit me, give me your insurance card". Passenger "is this a scam?". Me "my bike is worth more then your car". Them "f-off".Did they actually make contact? I can't tell from your description. If they didn't make contact, I can see how they'd think that you were trying to scam them. If they did make contact, the fact that they didn't even know it would be some tasty evidence to introduce at trial. :)

If they did make contact, it's hit & run-- a felony. If they didn't make contact, it might still be hit & run, depending on how the statute is worded.


frame pump or lock smashing windshield or rear window in. Sounds like they were hating. If that happened to me, I would smash a major part of the car in self defense.:rolleyes: That is not self-defense. The driver is a felon for hit & run. The last thing you'd want to do is snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by turning yourself into a felon, and having YOUR ass hauled off to jail.


that's what a ulock is for

;)And randya keeps on wondering why he keeps having problems with the law... :lol: ;)

People are creatures of habit and tend to ride the same roads. You might be able to find the car by riding in the area at roughly the same time of day. You need to report this.

EDIT: Noting the license plate and other identifying info before talking to motorists is not a bad idea. Cell phone cameras are useful in situations like these.

Blue: Hit & run isn't necessarily a felony in California...



20001. (a) The driver of any vehicle involved in an accident resulting in injury to any person, other than himself or herself, or in the death of any person shall immediately stop the vehicle at the scene of the accident and shall fulfill the requirements of Sections 20003 and 20004.
(b) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who violates subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison, or in a county jail for not more than one year, or by a fine of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000) nor more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

The punishment section means hit & run with injuries can be a misdemeanor or felony. Pretty much up to the prosecutor there, with some exceptions for serious injuries, etc. but the police would probably be considering it to be a felony for the purpose of the arrest at least.



20002. (a) The driver of any vehicle involved in an accident resulting only in damage to any property, including vehicles, shall immediately stop the vehicle at the nearest location that will not impede traffic or otherwise jeopardize the safety of other motorists...
(c) Any person failing to comply with all the requirements of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

Hit & run with property damage but no injuries can only be charged as a misdemeanor.

The information is from www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. I've found it to be a useful place to find information on California laws.

Yep, Jeff, you're right. Thanks for the clarification. I was generaliz8ing, and shouldn't have been. Even more reason, if any is needed, for the hit & run victim to avoid crossing the line and becoming the felon in this incident.

The first thing the OP did wrong here was to position himself where he was when he got right hooked. The second thing the OP did wrong was to fail to get the license number/call it in (although I can understand how hard it must have been).

It sounds like he also didn't get the witness' contact info, so that would be another mistake, because even if he finds the driver again, it's his word against her word and the passenger's word. That witness was golden...

It sounds like he also didn't get the witness' contact info, so that would be another mistake, because even if he finds the driver again, it's his word against her word and the passenger's word. That witness was golden...


This took place in an area where "Snitches get Stitches" apparel is all the rage. The kid didn't even give a chance to get his info before he took off.

This took place in an area where "Snitches get Stitches" apparel is all the rage. The kid didn't even give a chance to get his info before he took off.Looks like one of those times where the cards were just not in your favor, then. The only things I would suggest you do differently are (1) Don't race cars to the light, (2) Don't position yourself to the right of a car at driveways and intersections, (3) get the license number, and (4) call it in immediately.

Looks like one of those times where the cards were just not in your favor, then. The only things I would suggest you do differently are (1) Don't race cars to the light, (2) Don't position yourself to the right of a car at driveways and intersections, (3) get the license number, and (4) call it in immediately.
this is all well and good but it can be hard to remember sometimes when the ol' adrenaline's pumping...

:)

Your first mistake was confusing opinions with advice. Your second mistake was getting yourself into the situation.

Another mistake...not TELLING THEM that you already had their plate number, and if they didn't cooperate you were gonna call the cops and have them arrested for hit and run.

I have to agree with the OP; CA's plates don't block the letters into groups (for their digits I think 1-3-3, 4-3, or 3-4 would be helpful) which does make it hard to both read the entire number and memorize it.

Here in Ohio our plates are blocked 3-3 usually letters in the first group and numbers in the second, which makes reading and remembering a cars number much easier.

There is ample evidence that the human brain remembers alpha-numeric strings better when the are pre-chunked this way.

I have to agree with the OP; CA's plates don't block the letters into groups (for their digits I think 1-3-3, 4-3, or 3-4 would be helpful) which does make it hard to both read the entire number and memorize it.

Here in Ohio our plates are blocked 3-3 usually letters in the first group and numbers in the second, which makes reading and remembering a cars number much easier.

There is ample evidence that the human brain remembers alpha-numeric strings better when the are pre-chunked this way.

I agree.

"Chunking" is a good strategy for recalling license plates. Instead of trying to remember a single string of numbers and letters, break the string into two shorter strings:

Remember digits as a single number (three hundred and seventy-six) rather than three individual numbers (three-seven-six).
Remember alphabet chains as word strings (Dogs Bite Tires) rather than as single letters (D-B-T).

Like you said, this is a lot harder to do when the letters and numbers are all jumbled together, as they are in California.

I just got back from my nightly ride where I was just hit by two chicks in a crappy old Honda Civic. They are racing me from light to light, and then they buttonhook me into a lot. I go down. I pop back up and go to the driver. "Give me your insurance card". "What are you talking about?" she replies. "You just hit me, give me your insurance card". Passenger "is this a scam?". Me "my bike is worth more then your car". Them "f-off". I try to get behind the car but they peel out and drive away. So I did everything right here. I could not get the plate because it is California and the stock plate would be illegal in most states because it is so confusing.

I remember the outrage about the guy that punched the driver. I did nothing, and now I have no results. I am so pissed I cannot even speak. What did trying to do the right thing do for me? Nothing. Lesson- nobody cares about cyclists.

I fail to see how A&S's advice is horrible as it relates to your thread. Would violence have helped your situation? Instead of you being bruised, you could have had criminal or civil repercussions. No offense, but the failure here is your inability to memorize 8-9 number & letters. "Give me you insurance card" is confrontational and not the way to go about it.

Heck, put a Sharpie marker in your pocket and write the license number on your palm. No memory required. A license plate (or even a partial) is the most-important piece of information to secure.

I was with you until the last two. What should I have done? Pulled over so they could get way ahead? Thanked them for almost killing me? Thats f'n ridiculous, and the whole problem. Get real.

Actually, pulling over and letting them go would have been the most intelligent thing to do by far.

What's ridiculous, anyway - that putting distance between you and someone who's harassing you is a good idea? Or that you should be the one to forget your machismo for a minute in the interest of avoiding a couple of morons who have a 2000 lb weapon?

Pictures would have been better, especially of the car was STOLEN. Sorry to hear about the ordeal man.

That initial burst of adrenaline makes you want to decapitate someone huh? :D Then the loss of blood becomes a buzz kill.

Heck, put a Sharpie marker in your pocket and write the license number on your palm. No memory required. A license plate (or even a partial) is the most-important piece of information to secure.
Numbers can be scratched on the ground/dirt with rocks, sticks, or anything else available. There are many ways to record information using materials that can be found anywhere.

/\/\ banerjek, you are absolutely 100% correct. Even a small stub of chalk (which weighs essentially nothing) could prove a lifesaver to fellow cyclists and motorists alike. You've made an excellent suggestion.

In the event described by the original poster, it would have been a poor technique because the cyclist would have subsequently been in trouble with the police.
Some riders unfortunately advocate striking cars with u-locks (like the typical one pictured below) as a form of "street" negotiation:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/krytonite%20new%20york%20lock%2006.jpg


It's not "negotiation" it is revenge. If the idiots ran someone over, than they got whatever they deserve. Whether that is a U-lock to the window, just as long as it works.

CA plates are not random. They start with a single number from 1 to 5 (new plates start with 5), three letters, then three numbers. ex: 3XLB554.

I do not wish to overly nitpick, but this would still be considered random, I think, just with some specific constraints, i.e., the set of alphanumeric characters is partitioned in three. The process of choosing the letters itself is, presumably, random.

Non-randomness would come into play if there existed some sort of algorithm that specifically determined which letters were chosen based on some pertinent information (like date/location of Birth, your name, etc.) Even if the algorithm were merely a further constraint, such as limiting the first letter to one of 3, limiting the second to one in 4, etc., you could generate a list of potential names/DoB's/locations/whatever. Therefor, the license plate number, in this last situation, contains some type of information, though this information is lost a bit when it is encoded into a license plate number.

As it stands, you cannot presumably, take a given license plate and determine anything from it. Therefor no information is encoded in the sequence of letters (I guess you could argue that the plate hails from CA is encoded). A random string is the only thing I know of that also contains no information, and cannot be compressed further without losing any information (the description of the string 938488982840 is itself, 938488982840. Where as the description/compressed version of the string 0000000000 is repeat 0 10 times. )

It's not "negotiation" it is revenge. If the idiots ran someone over, than they got whatever they deserve. Whether that is a U-lock to the window, just as long as it works.Second Canadian to suggest that. While I understand that Canadian laws are perhaps not quite the same as U.S. laws, I can hardly believe that assault and battery are not criminal or civil offenses there. Assault and battery using a weapon? Most likely a felony. Definitely a criminal and civil offense, weapon or not. It transforms the innocent cyclist into the guilty felon in the blink of an eye, and suddenly it's the cyclist who is being prosecuted, and the driver who is state's witness (and later, the driver who is collecting the damages from the cyclist.). Attacking the vehicle instead of the driver (probably what you're suggesting here)? Still a criminal and civil offense, still a potential felony.

On another note, there is a somewhat simple way to memorize even daunting lists of numbers, which might help in remembering plate numbers, even with a simple glance.

Method 1) Create a mental picture for each letter, based on how it is shaped. For instance, I use

0 - the moon
1 - a stick
2 - a cobra
3 - eyeglasses
4 - sailboat
5- a rabbit
6 - a shillealagh, or club (maybe a tadpole)
7 - an axe
8 - an hourglass
9 - a flower (a cannon too might work)

Then you combine those images into a meaningful scene. For instance, say I want to remember 13274

I invision a stick (1) stabbing a spectal wearing (3) cobra (2) that is getting cleaved by an axe (7) all on a tiny sailboat (4). Usually I make the images gruesome since I have a few implements good at inducing pain (stick, axe, shillealagh) and some squishy/breakable things (sailboat, rabbit, cobra). Also, the more ridiculous you make the images, and the larger in size, the easier it is to remember them.

You do have to practice this technique to get quick at it. When you first start out it will probably take longer than writing it down, but the key is to only spend half a second or so on each image, but to flash it in your mind.

This method can be very useful when you get good because you can just glance at 2-3 numbers and create an automatic scene. So if I see 127 I automatically have an image associated with it.

Presumably you can do the same with letters, but I think a string of letters will be easier to remember since there is a much higher chance that the string forms a syllabic cognate to a real word, i.e., has some meaning. Things with no meaning are very hard to memorize because we cannot compress the information in any meaningful way. bpd is harder to remember than dog for precisely this reason. We compress the letters "dog" into a mental image, instead of trying to retrieve 3 unrelated, abstract letters.

Method 2) Essentially the same thing, but instead of mental images based on shape, you use images based on rhymes with numbers. So

0 - hero
1 - nun
2 - screw
3 - tree
4 - boar
.
.
. etc.

I don't personally use this method and am not sure how well it would work for cyclists. I guess it depends on how much you "read aloud" instead of your head.

If you spend just 5 minutes a day on this technique you can get pretty good with time, and it will probably increase your mental visualization skills. The keys again are to 1) make the images ridiculous 2) combine images (a spectacle wearing cobra is one image that accounts for two numbers) 3) quickly and vividly imagine the images.

Or you could pull out a sharpie and write it on your palm... :lol:

A license plate number isn't required. What if your injury had been severe enough you were not conscious. Would the cops just say, forget it, nothing we can do, you're unconscious?

Assault and battery using a weapon? Most likely a felony. Definitely a criminal and civil offense, weapon or not.

A criminal offense yes, not a felony. Canada doesn't use the misdemeanor/felony system, we use summary offenses and indictable offenses. A summary offense or "petty crime" charge does not include a right to trial by jury, nor an indictment. Assault are under section 264-278 of the Canadian Criminal Code, self-denfece is defined under sections 34-37.

(Sorry, I'm bored.)

A license plate number isn't required. What if your injury had been severe enough you were not conscious. Would the cops just say, forget it, nothing we can do, you're unconscious?

No, they would probably say what they did say when I reported it. "We'll look into it" :rolleyes: