Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Are "upgrades" a waste of money?

OK, so I'm as much a weight weenie as the next guy, and I love buying new stuff for my bikes (when I can sneak perchases past the Mrs.!). But are we all simply wasting our money?

To whit, please peruse the following articles for the sake of the enligtened discussion that is sure to follow:
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

From what I can discern, the biggest performance gain that we can get would be to have drop bars and use them for best rider aerodynamics. And perhaps even spandex roadie outfits too.

Risers definitely kill bike performance (I ride flop&chop bullhorns, so I'm guilty of that) because you are in a very upright position.

Bigger ticket items like deep V's are perhaps still worth it as it may gain you ~2% better efficiency, but weight weenieism gains you diddly****, like under a percent.

And fast rolling tires look to be a legit goal.

So, get aero, don't sweat having a "heavy" bike.

What do you think?

OK, so I'm as much a weight weenie as the next guy, and I love buying new stuff for my bikes (when I can sneak perchases past the Mrs.!). But are we all simply wasting our money?

To whit, please peruse the following articles for the sake of the enligtened discussion that is sure to follow:
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm (http://wheel_theory.htm)

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance (http://Bicycle_performance)

From what I can discern, the biggest performance gain that we can get would be to have drop bars and use them for best rider aerodynamics. And perhaps even spandex roadie outfits too.

Risers definitely kill bike performance (I ride flop&chop bullhorns, so I'm guilty of that) because you are in a very upright position.

Bigger ticket items like deep V's are perhaps still worth it as it may gain you ~2% better efficiency, but weight weenieism gains you diddly****, like under a percent.

And fast rolling tires look to be a legit goal.

So, get aero, don't sweat having a "heavy" bike.

What do you think?

I think you misspelled "to wit," that is, you spelled it "to whit." If you can appreciate the grammatical pun, you are whitty indeed.

[QUOTE][To whit, please peruse the following articles for the sake of the enligtened discussion that is sure to follow:
/QUOTE]

The enlightened didscussion is already underway...

I think you have a point, then agian i think you just might be vexed your wife dosn't let you spend as much money on your ride as the next bloke, Don't be jealous of the guys with the zipp's! Leave him in the dust, and make he look the pillock for spending $$$$$ on wheels that let him get smoked by a guy on a rusty conversion with spokeandwheel.com wheels!

Skanking, you're a grammatical witch :-)

I think there's something to be said about being more aero - but only if it's a big change, like going from the high and wide simulated braking parachute position of many hybrids/mountain bikes to a narrower, more stretched out and lower road bike position. The little changes from one road bike to another might not matter as much.

You can really tell the difference when riding in a head wind. All else being equal, the road bike rider can generally go faster for the same effort.

I think that narrower, harder tires make a big difference too, but by the time you are down to 23-25 mm, not much more can be gained.

V-section rims, I'm not too sure about. I find that even a relatively mild V really catches the wind sideways like a sail. I would prefer a more conventional rim if not racing.

But as far as weight goes, unless it's a lot, it won't make any difference. You can spend very big bucks and end up saving less weight than that of a water bottle. A full water bottle is about a litre, so, it weighs about a kilogram. What's shaving a few grams here and there going to do? So, the moral of the story is that if you really want to save weight, I guess you have to ride with a team car behind you to carry the water.

The upgrades that are of most interest to me are reliability at a good price. That's why i love things like Shimano 105 parts (relatively inexpensive but perform great) and handbuilt Velocity Deep-V wheels (strong and still not too expensive).

Weight is not a priority for me. I just see it as resistance training. :D

I'll worry about aerodynamics when i have more $$$ to play with. ;) I already got aerobars and a TT helmet for doing triathlons on my road bike (which may find their way to my fixed gear next year), but again, they were the best bang-for-the-buck purchases for better aerodynamics (less than $200 for both). The $800 aerodynamic rear wheel will come next year. :lol:

The Links don't work, so I cannot participate yet. lol

"Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades."

Eddy Merckx, for the quote above.

I agree that in a flat race weight is not much of a concern, but in the hills it can make a big difference. I have lost 15lbs in the last couple months, and I certainly have noticed that climbing has become increasingly easier. Part of this, of course, has to do with climbing more. But I had a dramatic 5lbs loss in week and certainly have noticed a huge difference after that. I feel lighter when going up hill.

Sorry, fixed the links now.

One of the best quotes I've heard on here, forgot who said it, was "the best thing you can upgrade on your bike is the rider".

I like a light bike, but non crap parts would get me to as light as I care about so I don't nit pick. I'd rather my parts be strong and hold up, because I commute a lot and also have to go through some nasty roads on occasion.

One of the best quotes I've heard on here, forgot who said it, was "the best thing you can upgrade on your bike is the rider".

I like a light bike, but non crap parts would get me to as light as I care about so I don't nit pick. I'd rather my parts be strong and hold up, because I commute a lot and also have to go through some nasty roads on occasion.

Yes, it is all about the engine.

I was just thinking, there is probably a more human element that limits the effects of aerodynamic posture. For example if I'm am in the drops trying to be as aerodynamic as possible my back is gonna start hurting after awhile and eventually my performance will be effected, or I'm gonna lift up ruining the aerodynamics. I wonder how that factors in against weight, because weight is a constant effect.

weight can be important. there is a local hill climb every year ~16miles of around 8% ave grade. I did the math after my ride last year and every pound I saved would be close to a minute of difference. my bike is almost two pounds lighter this year and I'm around 5 lighter. I'm hoping to do much better. For next year I want to build a light weight ss (14lb?) and kick ass

uh yeah

buying stuff wont make you happy sexy or successful

yes

uh yeah

buying stuff wont make you happy sexy or successful

I disagree. My Pista (along with its various upgrades) has made me happier, sexier (well, at least I lost weight); and more confident.

OK, so I'm as much a weight weenie as the next guy, and I love buying new stuff for my bikes (when I can sneak perchases past the Mrs.!). But are we all simply wasting our money?

To whit, please peruse the following articles for the sake of the enligtened discussion that is sure to follow:
http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

From what I can discern, the biggest performance gain that we can get would be to have drop bars and use them for best rider aerodynamics. And perhaps even spandex roadie outfits too.

Risers definitely kill bike performance (I ride flop&chop bullhorns, so I'm guilty of that) because you are in a very upright position.

Bigger ticket items like deep V's are perhaps still worth it as it may gain you ~2% better efficiency, but weight weenieism gains you diddly****, like under a percent.

And fast rolling tires look to be a legit goal.

So, get aero, don't sweat having a "heavy" bike.

What do you think?

Good rolling tires are worth the money for the performance gain but other stuff is just because we want it. Unless you are racing, that is.

Aero wheels really pay off riding fast on the flats. Their weight disadvantage in climbing is more than overcome by their gains on the flats and descents. But you need at least 40mm deep rims to see any effect. And you need to be going over 20mph, too.

Last night's alleycat had a Soma with Red Deep V's and an old Schwinn with white Deep V's(and a 52-15 gearing). Very nice looking. But I won the race on my San Jose with Alex wheels. I did put some Conti UltraGatorskins 700 x 25's on. I think they helped a lot. I could sure feel every grain of gravel in the road, though.

Well, actually, when new stuff arrives in the mail from Nashbar/Performance/JimmyJ's custom Wheelwerks, you have to admit it makes you pretty damn happy!

It just may not make you any faster.

I think you misspelled "to wit," that is, you spelled it "to whit." If you can appreciate the grammatical pun, you are whitty indeed.

Isn't the contraction spelled "t'wit"?

I disagree. My Pista (along with its various upgrades) has made me happier, sexier (well, at least I lost weight); and more confident.

no it was riding that did those things

not buying

Isn't the contraction spelled "t'wit"?

It is not a contraction. "To wit" literally means "that is."

no it was riding that did those things

not buying

But I could not have ridden had I not purchased. Further, the comfort and aesthetically pleasing qualities of my bike and its upgrades, induce me to ride more often. Thus, whilst buying does not ipso facto equate to better riding; purchasing upgrades can result in one riding more often, which, in turn, makes one a better rider.

But I could not have ridden had I not purchased. Further, the comfort and aesthetically pleasing qualities of my bike and its upgrades, induce me to ride more often. Thus, whilst buying does not ipso facto equate to better riding; purchasing upgrades can result in one riding more often, which, in turn, makes one a better rider.

try checking one out from the bike library

try checking one out from the bike library

huh??

Its a simple matter of propositional logic: A (purchasing upgrades) results in B (riding a bike more often) results in C (being a better rider).

While it is not true that A always equals C. A can, in som instances, lead to C.

op, are you talking about racing only? the ability to transfer power is just one measure of performance, despite what wikipedia would have you think.

re: the drops. i like and use mine, because i set them up so that i can reach them. but i wouldn't call that an "upgrade" per se.

any purchase is a compromise between cost, efficiency, comfort, reliability and lots of other factors. yes, lots of upgrades are a waste of money, because the benefits are not worth the cost, but "how fast they make you" is a foolishly narrow way to look at it.

riding fast a lot is what makes you faster.

op, are you talking about racing only? the ability to transfer power is just one measure of performance, despite what wikipedia would have you think.

re: the drops. i like and use mine, because i set them up so that i can reach them. but i wouldn't call that an "upgrade" per se.

any purchase is a compromise between cost, efficiency, comfort, reliability and lots of other factors. yes, lots of upgrades are a waste of money, because the benefits are not worth the cost, but "how fast they make you" is a foolishly narrow way to look at it.

riding fast a lot what makes you faster.

No, I'm not talking about racing only.

I'm talking about why do we look to buy a set of deep V's for our ride? Why a carbon fork? (I'm trying to justify getting one for myself, actually...), does any of this junk DO anything for us? If the above mentioned articles point to fractional increases in a race type environment, what type of miniscule rewards does it give to average Joes out there?

That being said, I think it relates to my ice cream principle: ice cream is fattening, and has little nutritional value, but it is SO damn yummy you have to go out and get some because it makes you feel really good.

That being said, I think it relates to my ice cream principle: ice cream is fattening, and has little nutritional value, but it is SO damn yummy you have to go out and get some because it makes you feel really good.

exactly. i'm of the mind that "it makes you feel good" is a perfectly justifiable end as long as the cost is reasonable to you. if you're lucky enough to have your needs met, it's completely reasonable to address your wants, as long as you know which is which.

i say get the carbon fork if you want one, and donate the old one to a bike co-op. then maybe it'll meet someone else's needs.

id imagine the typical causal chain is something more like this

a (purchasing upgrades) results in b (purchasing more upgrades) results in c (purchasing even more upgrades)

Weight matters going uphill. Aero matters on the flats. Stiffness matters climbing and sprinting. So, pick your battle. Upgrade if you need/want to improve in any of these areas.

When I finish a bike, I like to let it as it is, and then when I acquire other parts, I save them for new projects. I like to buy more pricepoint stuff and then add my own personal paint and touches instead.

I think someone mentioned upright posture earlier too, I try to be as upright as possible to be friendly to my 5th lumbar... so with that alone, I'll never be aero anyway.

How could they be a waste of money? They make you feel so good...

Effect on the bike is secondary:)

Buying stuff is fun. Researching what to get next is fun. Getting stuff in the mail or the UPS guy is fun. Installing it is fun,..... and riding your new gear is fun.

I recently bought a second wheelset as an upgrade on my prior wheelset. It was 200 grams lighter and I spent about $400 getting them built up. I did not really notice much difference, but I still had fun.

Re: aero vs' not. For general riding, aerobars are the biggest bang for the buck over anything aero on the hard equipment. Reducing your air "footprint" will gain you way more than the most aero of wheels, or frame, or whatever.

To your question. It is only a waste of money if you are spending your non-disposable income. (i.e. The money you should be saving in your 401/403 for retirement is instead being spent on bike crap.) If you are saving appropriately for your age and the money you are spending is in excess of what you need to retire, then you are not wasting.

I consider it entertainment money. Like when I got to casinos. I don't call it gambling, I call it entertainment. I consider my bike to be entertainment. It's not like I need to to be alive.

It feels good to be a gansta.

I'd rather aquire parts for another bike than upgrade one that's working just fine. But then, I've got something like 15 bikes and counting, so...

I'd rather aquire parts for another bike than upgrade one that's working just fine. But then, I've got something like 15 bikes and counting, so...

It's less expensive to upgrade than to buy a whole new bike.

There comes a point of diminishing returns. Making your bike lighter will absolutely make it faster, but once you reach a certain point the speed advantage is so small it is imperceptible unless you are a very serious athlete. Weight in static components meets this limit quickly, slower spinning things such as the chainring/crank next, then finally the wheels/tires.

So, IMHO the best money spent is on wheels and tires. Just make everything else decent.

Chry

There comes a point of diminishing returns. Making your bike lighter will absolutely make it faster, but once you reach a certain point the speed advantage is so small it is imperceptible unless you are a very serious athlete. Weight in static components meets this limit quickly, slower spinning things such as the chainring/crank next, then finally the wheels/tires.

So, IMHO the best money spent is on wheels and tires. Just make everything else decent.

Chry

Gotta make sure your saddle is good too, even it adds weight. I have found that saddle comfort is one of the main things that dictates how long/fast I ride.

Nothing beats waiting for the postman to arrive with new parts. But seriously... none of us are pros where upgrading will make a difference. Yes it feels good to have those new bits on the bike, but really.. you just need to ride a bit harder!!

Yes!

you just need to ride a bit harder!!

voice of reason

If you really want the best bang for your buck performance wise, it would involve an angle grinder and a decent amount of time/effort. A decent homebrew faired low racer will spank just about any other bike outside of dense traffic. In dense traffic, an older/cheaper road or touring bike would be the best bang for yer buck.

Stiffness is where it's at! Power transfer, baby :)

Ride crappy plastic pedals with aged/weathered straps and a bottom dollar stem/bar combo, than go to quality laminated straps or clipless along with some Nitto this or Cinelli that and nice pedals, you'll notice changes pretty fast.

Of course, there was a thread in the roadie forum about frame stiffness and the general consensus is the stiffest you can take until comfort is seriously compromised and you get fatigued faster is the best way to go for performance.

buy them....if you feel faster you must be faster. just dont tell the people youre racing against(unfair advantage you really never had).

Its a simple matter of propositional logic: A (purchasing upgrades) results in B (riding a bike more often) results in C (being a better rider).

While it is not true that A always equals C. A can, in som instances, lead to C.

He's got you there, Doofo.

I'm talking about why do we look to buy a set of deep V's for our ride? Not having to true your wheel every week makes a huge difference to me *shrug*

Hand built wheels are better than any machine-built rim out there, whether it's a Deep V or not.

Or.. just get a red bike!

Not having to true your wheel every week makes a huge difference to me *shrug*

WTF? You true your wheel every ****ing week? Do you weigh 400 lbs?