Road Cycling - The typical cyclist

As a disclaimer: I'm not trying to anger sensitive people. I'm not here to start a flame war. If you don't like this or if you get angry or overly sensitive too easily..then please don't bother posting/reading.

Anyways, this is something that's been on my mind for a while now. If you watch the peloton in something like the Tour de France and you look at the cyclists, you kind of notice that almost every single one of them, without exception, is caucasian.

I know uspostal has one black cyclist on their roster...but after looking through the roster lineups of a lot of the TdF teams, I'm beginning to think there's not a single black or asian cyclist among the group.

This also goes along with my own personal experience - the club I ride with is 97% caucasian, ranging in age from 25 to 'wow I'm old'. Same deal with my previous employment at a high end road bike shop...most customers, whether they were roadies or triathletes were predominantly caucasian.

So... being asian, 19, and just simply curious about this...I'm honestly curious as to why it is like this? Is football truly the only international sport out there? Does genetics (see genetics thread) have anything to do with the racial makeup of the pro peloton? Does this have anything to do with economics and wealth? (I honestly don't think it does) Is it simply popularity? (Only Europeans are interested in cycling?! Huh?!)

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Ken

It's hard to say why, and I've never totally understood it. I don't see a lot of black cyclists riding around here either, or any asians and we have quite a high asian population here on the Gold Coast. I wouldn't say it's just because the sport seems to be at it's strongest in Europe, just have a look at any of the top football teams over there. I've never really understood why, but then, I've never really understood why, in this country at least, such a small percentage of cyclists seem to be female either.

Since I used to live on Long Island, I noticed a drastic change in the overall racial makeup when I came down to Atlanta. I do see quite a few roadies and mountain bikers who are African American and Asians but they still make up a lesser percentage. My husband and I ride with black mountain bikers. (all men I must add, I have yet to see female black mountain bikers). Don't know why. I think it must be cultural. Atlanta has the highest concentration of middle class to upper middle class blacks so the economics of having the ability to purchase releaively expensive equiptment may play a role here. Honestly, I think it is just a reflection of the demographics.... biking is still not a major sport for the majority of the population, therefore, minorities that comprise a smaller percentage of the overall population, will not be as visible.

It's just as you suspect. It's driven by popularity, and yea! cycling is most popular in Europe. If you think about it, how many Americans, of any race, would have one clue about the TdF if not for Lance. ..not many.

OK, here is my theory:

At recreational level, cycling is 100% endurance sport and virtually has no tactical element in it. Once you know the technics, all you need to do next is to improve your endurance. Moreover, it's a very individual sport because you compete against yourself. At the end of the day, all you can say is: "I ride 50 miles in 3 hours. Last week, it took me 3 hours and 15 minutes." You may feel proud when you say it, but it doesn't make much sense to non-cyclists. They probably think you are crazy :) In that sense, cycling has no social value. Most westerners don't care, but for Asian, social value is a big deal. And when they do a sport, it better has some social value in it.

Asian are more into sports where they can mingle in one place and compete against each other. Badminton, tennis, and soccer are the kind of sports they do. Endurance is not the primary concern (I never hear a fellow badminton player discussing his heart rate). The primary concern is to beat the other guy or group using all sort of tactics. Though technically it doesn't really matter who win or loose (after all, it's only recreational), it has deep social meaning. If you loose all the time, you loose face, and if you win all the time, you gain some status in the group. So, at the end of the day you can actually gain something social: "I beat that guy." For them, cycling is like playing tennis with a wall.

BTW, I am Asian :)

Cycling is definitely more of a white sport, but I see more black people getting into it, and asians as well, but asians have always been more into cycling (in asian countries, track especially).

However, I have noticed that Mederic Clain of Cofidis is definitely of mixed parentage. If you find photos of him, you'll see. I think he or his parents are from the Reunion Islands (a french colony) which is very racially diverse and has many mixed race familes. Mostly white, black, indian, kind of like Trinidad. SO I guess he counts as being sort of black. But yes, he seems to be the only one in the Tour.

Its just more of a white thing but i'm sure somehow white people are keeping all others out of cycling.Havent you every seen supergo give back money and refuse to sell to the non-white cyclist?Somewhere somebody will pick up on this and put a white only spin on it.

This is a good topic- I just had this discussion recently with another guy a few days ago.

First, I do know of TWO black professional cyclists out there- Erik Saunders, who rides for the Ofoto Lombardi Sports Team. Here is his pro resume (http://www.firstunioncycling.com/2003_BIOS/bios_03/men_03/ofoto%20lombardi/Erik%20SAUNDERS.pdfis ) and Rahsaan Bahati, who rides for Team Saturn- pro resume (http://www.saturncycling.com/members/bahati.htm )

Still, out of all the professional riders out there, two is not a lot- black people are pretty underrepresented. :(

From the perspective of the underrepresented side, I really think there are many reasons why blacks are so underrepresented. The most obvious reason is that cycling simply is not given a lot of exposure. There are other sports that are more popular and that are more well-received in the black community, such as basketball (for example). Basketball has a much higher media exposure, and therefore attracts the attention of aspiring black athletes.

Add to that- for black people who live in lower to middle income neighborhoods, young kids are told (mistakenly, in my opinion) that the way to make money and become wealthy is through sports- most of the time through playing basketball. If you ever get the chance to watch "Hoop Dreams" (documentary), you'll see how much basketball is overemphasized to these kids- and sometimes, to their detriment.

I also think the black community mostly sees cycling as something done for health and fitness- not as a professional sport. I ride my bike every morning, and I see no other black women riding, and I see the same five black male cyclists- 2 of them I know who are friends of mine, and the other three are just guys I recognize from seeing them every day. From time to time, I see black people on bikes, mostly overdressed and overweight, leisurely riding on the bike path, and certainly not venturing too far from home.

When I do talk to other black people, I tell them about Marshall "Major" Taylor (http://www.majortaylorassociation.org/who.htm ), I usually get blank looks. Up until five years ago, I would have been one of those people giving blank looks also- he is just not emphasized as a major sports hero in the black community as someone like Marion Jones in track, Michael Jordan in basketball, and the Williams sisters in tennis.

There is so little emphasis on cycling in general to begin with- the first time I ever knew cycling was a SPORT was in college- I was the only one of my friends with cable, and a lot of my friends were European, and in the summer, they would come by my apartment asking me to turn on the television so they could see what some bald dude named Pantani was doing for the Tour. The What? I would ask them... I pretty much just sat with them, although I had no idea what I was looking at. Then that year, I also remember seeing a news conference- this skinny white guy was saying he had to retire from cycling because he had cancer- I thought "poor guy" not knowing what the significance of that conference really meant until years later, when I actually sat up and started paying attention to what was going on in the cycling world. The guy on television I remembered from college was making a comeback in the Tour de France, and I watched my first Tour with renewed interest. That's when I first got hooked into cycling.

Unfortunately, the media does not give much media attention to cycling- the sports in the forefront are usually the ones where they glorify the big money people. The only cyclist really glorified by the media here (in the USA) is Lance Armstrong- and they certainly don't portray him as wildly successful or wealthy as other athletes in the more popular sports. People, in general, don't see the rewards given to cyclists, and less attention is given in the black community. This is unfortunate.

Add to the conditions cyclists would be forced to train in- if anyone's ever cycled through Cabrini Green and the other projects, or cycled through Englewood, the streets are filled with potholes or in poor condition. To cycle on those roads successfully is like riding a road bike on an undeveloped mountain bike path- I used to cycle mainly on the southside, but after discovering the smooth paved roads of the north side and north suburbs, and seeing the increased visibility of cyclists on the north side and north suburbs, I've mainly stayed put north of Chicago. It also bothered me that I was the ONLY black cyclist riding out there too- and no matter how many times I would stop (or get stopped) by folks in the community and try to talk them into joining me for a ride, I never had anyone join me. They just couldn't believe that people would ride for any other reasons than to get from point A to point B (when the distance was not that great) or for fitness reasons (again, short distances). Cycling is just not promoted in the black community to be taken seriously, and that's a big problem I have with how the media promotes cycling to the masses and to minorities in general.

Regardless of what anyone says, if the cycling leagues had been more accepting of blacks back when cycling was big in the USA (late 1800s/early 1900s), maybe the story would have been different- see League of American Wheelmen (http://www.majortaylorassociation.org/LAB_text.htm). Unfortunately, the League of Americn Wheelmen, the governing cycling body during that period made sure to bar blacks from cycling, and that may have been the start of why blacks currently are more unaware of cycling than whites. As you can see by the link, this ban was not lifted until 1999, and although they do not govern professional cycling now, and the removal of the ban was largely symbolic, the actions taken during the early part of the last century by the League seemed to put the first nail in the coffin for black people.

Another downside of cycling in the black community seems to be that the cost of a good bike is far more than simply taking up track and getting a good pair of shoes, or getting a basketball and heading for the nearest park for a game of pick up. A good road bike is costly, and for low to middle income minorites, I could see how the parents would steer their children away from sports like cycling, when you've got to make the rent payments, pay for school, pay the bills, etc. Cycling is too costly to participate in. I don't know if there are many shops out there that could help a minority kid out (I know of one big one- Chicagoland Bicycle on 103rd and Kedzie), but there are many many many more shops as you head north into Chicago downtown and then continue further north into the northside and north suburbs.

I don't know a lot about other minorities, sorry.

I do talk to as many youth as possible about cycling in the black community. I still sometimes ride past the schools on the south side, and nothing cracks me up more than to see those teens and kids cheering and screaming as I race by in full cycling gear. I'm hoping that by them seeing me, maybe they'll get more interested in trying it themselves. I also have been pushing my nephews into cycling too- my oldest nephew is 6, and last year, I clocked him sprinting at 11 miles per hour down the streets. Sometimes I take my bike out and visit him and we go for longer rides. Maybe he'll be the next Lance- who knows? ;) I am saving up for my nephews for two reasons- 1) So they can have the best education possible, and 2) So I can get them the best bike on the market as soon as they start to show a bit more interest in the next 5- 10 years. I have high hopes for them.

My thoughts (and recent discussion with another cyclist). Thanks to Kenneth for bringing up the topic and in a thoughtful manner too...

Koffee

As a P.S. I do believe that saying whites keep blacks out of the sport is like saying blacks keep whites out of stepping- if white people had the exposure to stepping that black people did, we'd all be stepping at contests, dance parties, etc. That is not really a valid argument and should be given little credibility or taken seriously.

There are pleny of cyclists of mixed decent and of african decent cycling competitively in Southern Africa. The issue there is money and the unwillingness of wealthy white business to sponsor blacks in sport.
Being of Mixed decebt myself i found that to be quite a stumbling block. It does'nt takemuchmony to compete. But it does take a lot to compete at the top.
Training, Sports science, biomechanics, equipment, nutrition, access to facilities, etc

In europe the majority of the population is white or european. Caucassian does not only refer to white people. Certain asiatics fall into that category as well.

adjective 1 of or relating to one of the traditional divisions of humankind, covering a broad group of peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa. [ORIGIN: so named because the German physiologist Blumenbach believed that it originated in the Caucasus region of SE Europe.]
Since the majority of the populationis white it stands to reason that the majority of sportsmen and women will be white.

In high school, one of South Africa's best young track cyclists was aguy named Virgo Martin. To improve his cycling and to move out from Apartheid, his family emigrated to Australia. What happened to his cycling from then on i don't know, but the guy had the talent and endutrance to make it to the top.

On the Specilaized website ther is an article wrtto Cipolleni training in South Africa and riding along with some black kids. You won't find a white business making money available to develop the sport in the black community.
In the 9yrs since the new government has come to power only one Black cyclist has been taken under the wing on white business and developed. It was in mountain biking.

Talent exhists amoun all the different peoles of the world, they just have to be exposed. Unfortunately in some place there is a concerted underground effort by whites to exclude blacks from many sports, not just cycling.

Koffee,
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this thread. Maybe something should be set up for cycling like Tiger does for the kids and golf. I'm sure drives could be set up to provide kids with good used starter bikes to introduce them to the sport. The opportunities are endless.

Golf, tennis, swimming ... and cycling. Is there something in common that would explain the lack of racial diversity? Socio-economic origins perhaps? Any thoughts?

<------- Im Asian. Well half Japanese, half Italian. So I have the passion for cycling (Italian side) and the giant legs (Japanese Side). It was a match made in heaven. To be honest I have no idea why other ethnic groups havent taken on to cycling. Here in Tucson I seem to be the only "exotic" looking cyclist around. ODD!

Around here there are lots of black cyclests. More than white. This year is the first time I've seen other white cyclests. Also the black drivers are more careful of you. Today a dog owned by a black man came after me. The Black man (ok so he's a friend) came after the dog. They do seem to use bikes more for transportation that sport, but we'll get them there.

Great thoughts good insite KB

Joe

Originally posted by bentrox!
Golf, tennis, swimming ... and cycling. Is there something in common that would explain the lack of racial diversity? Socio-economic origins perhaps? Any thoughts?
Motor sports.

One more thought I also have trouble recruting blacks for my 4H rifle team.

Joe

Originally posted by RunYun
Koffee,
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this thread. Maybe something should be set up for cycling like Tiger does for the kids and golf. I'm sure drives could be set up to provide kids with good used starter bikes to introduce them to the sport. The opportunities are endless.
I've tried but i get the same questions,how much money can you make.

In case you weren't aware, France's population has give-or-take the same white/black ratio as England and the USA (well, maybe not, but it's certainly not devoid of Afro-Francophiles, probably because of all the French-speaking African nations). I'm not sure about the Asian/Oriental side of things, but it's certainley not due to a lack of interest. As for the physical aspect, if most all the top long distance runners and sprinters are black, surely they'd be capable of climbing Mont Blanc or Alp Duez, or sprinting down the Camps Alyssees. Maybe it's just road racing, I can think of a good number of black and Asian BMX riders (my personal discipline).

I think a big reason there are virtually no non-white cyclists is simply because there are virtually no non-white cyclists. Any amateur black or asian cyclists don't have a Tiger Woods or a Serena Williams to look up to and inspire them.

But it's not just cycling; look at motor racing. OK there are lots of Japanese, but when was the last time you saw a black guy drive an F1 car?

Originally posted by Jonny B
In case you weren't aware, France's population has give-or-take the same white/black ratio as England and the USA (well, maybe not, but it's certainly not devoid of Afro-Francophiles, probably because of all the French-speaking African nations). I'm not sure about the Asian/Oriental side of things, but it's certainley not due to a lack of interest. As for the physical aspect, if most all the top long distance runners and sprinters are black, surely they'd be capable of climbing Mont Blanc or Alp Duez, or sprinting down the Camps Alyssees. Maybe it's just road racing, I can think of a good number of black and Asian BMX riders (my personal discipline).

I think a big reason there are virtually no non-white cyclists is simply because there are virtually no non-white cyclists. Any amateur black or asian cyclists don't have a Tiger Woods or a Serena Williams to look up to and inspire them.

But it's not just cycling; look at motor racing. OK there are lots of Japanese, but when was the last time you saw a black guy drive an F1 car?
Most of us dont need someone to look up to to ride.Lets not include racing,just bicycling.I see more mexicans on bikes then asian and blacks put together,of course there are on k-mart bikes going and coming to work.

I see many aboriginal people in the intercity of Winnipeg riding bicycles. I believe they ride bicycles mostly as a form of inexpensive transportation and not for sport.

Originally posted by shokhead
Most of us dont need someone to look up to to ride.Lets not include racing,just bicycling.I see more mexicans on bikes then asian and blacks put together,of course there are on k-mart bikes going and coming to work.

Yup. That's me. A Mexican on his way to work. Except that I've just come from a 30 mile road workout on my Trek 5200. (I had to resist the temptation to chop it down and put sissy bars and white sidewall tires on it.:))

Johnny- I believe you are 99% right- there are very few non-white cyclists. I do look up to Saunders and Bahati, two professional cyclists that are out there in the circuit racing. I think that any black cyclist that wants to excel in the sport will look to those two for inspiration. In particular, Bahati receives a good amount of attention, having been named as one of People Magazine's most beautiful people in 2003. This article led to more media exposure to him and the cycling world to other black people, and that helps him increase his popularity. Yes, I know this is in the United States, as opposed to other parts of the world, but I can only speak to what I am most familiar with, and I am, of course, much more intimate with what happens here in the States.

I think a lot of us are aware that there are large black communities in Europe- not only Africans who relocated to Europe, but also black expatriates who moved to Europe from the States, seeking more acceptance than they received while in the United States.

Despite the larger groups of black people, I don't know of any black cyclists that are part of the pro circuit. If there are, I'd be interested to know- I'd add them to my growing list of black cyclists I can give to my nephews to help keep them enthusiastic about cycling, as well as for my own interest in seeing a more multi-cultural cycling world.

It is a shame that so many South Africans with promising careers feel the need to leave South Africa for better opportunities in other countries- while living in Australia, I encountered large groups of South Africans (even larger groups of Kenyans, Zimbabweans, and Nigerians) who left Africa for less hostile surroundings and better opportunities. This was in Perth. I really do think if the South African that had such wonderful abilites and promise moved to Australia with his family, he is probably developing himself more fully there and finding more acceptance and opportunity in Australia than in South Africa.


As for the physical aspect, if most all the top long distance runners and sprinters are black, surely they'd be capable of climbing Mont Blanc or Alp Duez, or sprinting down the Camps Alyssees.

I don't think any person here said that blacks are physically incapable of performing at the elite level as cyclists. No one here is debating whether black people are incapable of performing. Otherwise, we'd be asking the question of IF blacks and non-whites are capable, not WHY they would NOT be participating because they ARE capable of cycling at the elite level.

Of course, I don't know the answers to the questions posed, nor do I know of any solutions that can be offered. It is the way it is... and all we can do is get the word out there to all races and ethnicities that this cycling a great sport that can transcend the race and ethnic barriers. There are definitely some issues that need to be resolved, and the exposure of cycling needs to be raised in minority communities, but I believe that it can happen one day. It will just take time. Look how far we've come in the USA- from passing bans just to bar blacks from competing, to repealing bans, signing black cyclists to professional teams, and even naming a black cyclist as one of People's most beautiful people. I know this is still pretty insignificant- it's only a small handful of successes, and we have a long way to go, but I do believe that over time, exposure will increase and more barriers will be broken, and cycling will become more multiculturally diverse.

Koffee

As another P.S., when I was riding through Italy and Greece, I did notice that there were no minorities on bikes, and very few women riding- and this is just with groups and teams and such doing their daily rides, not just riding around on their bikes in general.

I work with and they are my friends,blacks and i've asked about cycling and they all said the same thing.Sh$t,you spent $800 on a bike,your nuts or i'm not getting on a bike.

I know uspostal has one black cyclist on their roster

One last question, though- I had no idea USPS had a black cyclist on the roster. I do know the team is multicultural. Which one is the black one, though? Just wanting to know so I can add it to my portfolio to show to my nephews...

Thanks,

Koffee

I spent 6 weeks in China a few years ago, and I'll guarantee you this: There are more Asian bicyclists than there are caucasians.

Bikes were everywhere. In some areas I bet they outnumbered cars by 20:1 or more.

The best image I came home with was a family of FIVE on a standard touring bike. Dad was on the seat, pedaling, Mom was sitting on the rear rack holding a baby, with another small child standing on the rack between mom and dad grabbing his shoulders... with the oldest of the three kids on the handlbars.

... and none of them were wearing helmets, lycra, or Oakleys.

For the life of me I can't believe there isn't someone in China that could compete in the TdF. Western China has some tough mountain passes that would be great training ground if the military weren't there to keep you out.

One thing for sure, there seem to be more jews in cycling than in most sports. I've seen quite a few cyclists (in europe especially) with jewish last names, especially in france, austria, germany and Luxembourg, just from reading the results of races. I think for example, robert sassone of Cofidis (track) is jewish, or at least half, and there 's another french trackie, REne wolf, and I noticed quite a few on the austrian and german national teams. And alexander Shefer, on Saeco (he wasn't in the tour this year). I also remeber seeing that the first winner of the six days of munich, in 1933, was jewish- his name was Teitz. I guess this is also an economic thing- middle class university students get into cycling through school, lots of jewish kids go to university, even back when university enrollment was much lower.

Incidentally, as for Teitz. I remember reading that Teitz was the name of a huge department store in Berlin. It was a very classy store, sort of like Bloomingdales. The family left germany in 1941 for the US, and the store was destroyed in the war. I don't know if this Teitz was related to them, but he could have been. Kind of an interesting story.

Anways, you see a lot more jews in cycling than, say, basketball or football!

outside DC there are bikers of all ages and races, however out in indiana, its mainly caucusation. This is because its 90% white in IN. its kind of spooky though the hige diffrences.

Koffee,

Check out Nelson Vails, black sprinter nicknamed the
cheetah rode in the 80's.

To be brutally frank, I believe that the issue is economic
in Southern Africa. I don't think alot of black south africans
can afford either a race quality bike, or the time required
to train towards elite levels. And RSA is the most prosperous
of the sub saharan countries.

As for the U.S. or Europe, I'm not sure. I have a feeling it
has to do with exposure (at least here in the US) but I'm
nowhere near qualified to speak about this one.

i think the cultural and economic barriers to diversifying the peloton are significant. however, if they were removed, i do believe that africans would be at the front of the pro peloton. given their track record in track sprinting and marathon, i think they would totally dominate cycling.

Exposure and economics is my take. I coach high school track and coached high school football (US) for 9 years or so. Accessible sports. Football equipment is terribly expensive but it's all provided except for the shoes. As a coach I can afford to buy a kid a pair of shoes every now and then but a bike?

Same with Track and Field. All you need is a pair of shoes. The really expensive stuff like poles for vaulting (they can be hideously expensive), jump pits and etc. are provided. Same with baseball too though to a lesser degree b/c a kid needs a glove too. However bats, balls, pitching machines and etc. are provided for the kids.

In theory if a school district can supply the money to pad up several hundred to maybe a couple thousand football players they could afford some bikes too. However, where do you practice? Velodromes are pretty scarce in the US and the school board attorneys would wet their pants if a coach took them on the road. So you have a sport where a $1000 bike is looked at as an "entry" model. That makes tennis look cheap.

Also, as many have pointed out, is media exposure. Win or lose my feeling is next year is it for LA. If Ullrich starts winning instead of another American what will happen to US coverage? My guess is the same thing that happened after LeMond left in 1991. We'll be remembering "the good ole days" of OLN coverage. Hard for an athletic kid, black or white, to walk away from the major sports in the US that might give him a chance to go to college and in his dreams may even make him rich for a sport "noone" has heard of and, at it's top levels, requires him to live in Europe.

Btw there's a guy in the NFL now that I bought his first pair of cleats for. Maybe I should look him up and charge interest?

The DC public schools have a program which introduces inner city kids to skiing, which has similar demographics and issues. I have had the opportunity to teach quite a few of them, and they are really interesting students on the slopes. Maybe we need to start an organization to obtain some raod bikes for some inner city schools, so that they can start up a cycling team.

Originally posted by FOG
The DC public schools have a program which introduces inner city kids to skiing, which has similar demographics and issues. I have had the opportunity to teach quite a few of them, and they are really interesting students on the slopes. Maybe we need to start an organization to obtain some raod bikes for some inner city schools, so that they can start up a cycling team.

i was gonna suggest the same thing... i think it's a great idea!!

Hmmm... FOG- sounds good. Maybe I'll get in contact with the guy from Park Tool who already teaches inner city kids about bike repair and helps them to find old bikes to rebuild so they can ride for themselves. It can't be that big of a leap to get old road bikes and have them rebuild that one, and then I'd be more than happy to take them out on the streets and trails for training rides.

Great idea!

perhaps people with an old steel steed in the garage they have not ridden in years because they're saving it for THAT special project can donate those frames/bikes.
This could be THAT special Project....

Not to be the party pooper but...

All the bike in the world wouldn't get road teams going in the school districts I have worked in or where I'm currently working. The fly in the ointment is liability. I know Florida is one of the most litigous states in the union but when cross country coaches get heat for having their kids run on the sidewalks along side the roads imagine the reaction to having groups actually ride ON the roads. The cross country coaches can usually come up with a low traffic training run since their athletes are training for 3 mile races. As we all know road race training requires alot more miles.

I did work in Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale) and the county Parks Dep't runs a velodrome so I could see something there. An added bonus is that a velo bike can be put together alot cheaper too. Maybe someday for that but high school sponsored road teams? I'd love to see it but am extremely doubtful.

Here we have a school program run at the velodrome. We have 40-50 track bikes of all sizes, which are provided to the kids. Coaches will set up the bikes for them, and then provide instruction on how to ride the track. I believe it costs something like $5 Canadian (around $3US) to have all of this provided - so it's very affordable. It's an easy way to get young riders involved in the sport and to promote our team.

Mike

I work for lbusd and if it takes money,forget it.Insurance would forsure stop it.Cycling is just something that is going to have to atract you to want to try it.That said,how many just got into it and how many had somebody help.I wouldnt have started if my dad wasnt riding.

Originally posted by wabbit
Incidentally, as for Teitz. I remember reading that Teitz was the name of a huge department store in Berlin. It was a very classy store, sort of like Bloomingdales. The family left germany in 1941 for the US, and the store was destroyed in the war. I don't know if this Teitz was related to them, but he could have been. Kind of an interesting story.

Actually, after the war, the family reopened their department store chain as Hertie--named for Her(mann) Tie(tz), the founder of the flagship store in Berlin. The Hertie chain (not the original store) is more like Mervyns than Bloomingdales. BTW, the store is definitely spelled Tietz (pronounced "teets"). If the spelling of the cyclist was Teitz, it is a different name and pronunciation (like "tights").

Rich

Really, is that the same family? I can't remember the spelling of the cyclist, but I guess I could look it up. I always wondered what happened to the department store family, I didn't know they opened another store. Well, at least they got out of germany! I have to say I don't know what Mervyns is like, however, but from the description of the Tietz store in Berlin it sounded like Bloomingdales. I saw a photo of it and it looked very classy and elegant, but there was also a photo of it after the war and it was just a sad mass of rubble.

I guess I didn't make it clear, that they reopened in Germany as Hertie after World War II. The original store in Berlin was defintely high end. The Hertie chain that they started after the war was more like Penneys or Sears--a good, but basic kind of store.

I take an interest in this topic because my father's Berlin relatives owned a department store. I would have liked to have learned more about them, but my father last saw them in 1935. All my father can remember is the name of an uncle--and it was a very common name in Berlin. Even when I was living in Germany I couldn't get anywhere with what I knew.

Rich

Can't say that I personally know many/any riders of colour. Could be because I live in Denmark, but was there any this year, in the Tour de France? Is the professional cycling as white as I fear?

Originally posted by poululla
Can't say that I personally know many/any riders of colour. Could be because I live in Denmark, but was there any this year, in the Tour de France? Is the professional cycling as white as I fear? I realy dont think its a discimination thing , just a sporting preferance !

My guess is that if one surveyed cyclists in the U.S. in a few categories (commuter, racing, weekend recreational) one would indeed come up with a tilt in the heavily white direction. I don't read a whole lot into that, however. Different activities and sports have different demographic histories. I've never participated in cricket, lacrosse, or curling, for example. It would be a problem if active barriers are thrown in the path of people of different races and cultures who are interested in cycling. Barring that, I don't see any need to do stress out over our demographics. My own policy is to try to be nice and helpful to anyone who's interested in cycling. It might be a naive approach, but I think it'll get more positive results than any of the alternatives I can imagine.

Cycling is a European, middle class sport.

Most of cycling's role models and heros have been Euros, and European countries have, let's face it, much smaller black and ethnic populations than the United States. Consequently, the kind of kids attracted to the sport are those who find some resonance in athletes like Eddy Merckx, Stephen Roche and Felice Gimondi.

It's also a middle class sport. Bikes cost money, unlike soccer, that requires nothing more than a ball and a field, or basketball. In the US, there is a strong racial skew to economic classes. Whites are more likely to be middle class, and thus more capable of spending $2000 on a bike, than blacks.

Finally, cycling has very firm roots in European middle class history. Traditionally, it has been the sport of the sons of shopkeepers and prosperous tradesmen. There is a deep cultural class resonance there.

So... is cycling a white sport? Mostly. I know a fir number of black cyclists and triathletes, but the pro ranks are mostly white... like hockey and skiing...

Most riders in the UK are white. Maybe riding a bike is just not cool for other ethnic groups?

It'd be nice if kewlrunningz could add his opinions but I haven't seen him around the forums for a long time now. Anyone know if he's still with us?

In the UK cycling used to be the preserve of the leisured classes way back, but by the 1930s, it was definately a working man's sport. Many of the hard-men of the peleton were escaping life on the farm or factory and many cycling clubs in the industrial north had strong socialist and union affiliations. There were middle class preserves, such as the more gentlmanly Cyclists Touring Club, but cycling cut across all classes.

It is not nessarsary to spend big money on a bike to get started , a good 2nd hand road bike can be bought for less than the price of a expensive pair of soccer boots , how many people enter recreational cycling spending US$ 2000 on a bike ??

Cycling in not a "white" sport.

I ride in Philadelphia almost every day and I see a lot of African-American riders. And I'm not just referring to casual riders getting from here to there on cheap bikes; they are avid cyclists have high-end bikes and gear just as any avid cyclist would.

While I agree that serious cycling costs money, that doesn't exclude it from minority groups.

I would say maybe size.Most of the black guys i know are a lot bigger then me,i'm 6ft,190.Maybe just to big for the sport and motor sports is the same,99% of those guy are small.Just thinking out loud.

greywolf,

while i agree that cycling is not really very expensive to get started...

it can be. as a college student, i for instance, had to REALLY save to buy a $250 road bike and a helmet... and then i trained but could not afford to enter races ($20-50)... and i was a _college_ student, so not really poor (i just had no money)

also, particularly in the US there is little developed club system where youngsters can get invloved and get races and equipment and coaching for free or discounted.

if you are a poor kid in the US cycling is pretty much out of reach... especially since you are unlikely to even encounter cycling or someone racing (yes, maybe the local DUI who lost his car, or the "rich" white guy in spandex)

but i agree with the earlier posts: that cycling is mostly a middle class european sport

P.S. in Texas i knew a lot of hispanic riders, a few asian riders but very very few black riders...

Originally posted by LarryJ
My guess is that if one surveyed cyclists in the U.S. in a few categories (commuter, racing, weekend recreational) one would indeed come up with a tilt in the heavily white direction. I don't read a whole lot into that, however. Different activities and sports have different demographic histories. I've never participated in cricket, lacrosse, or curling, for example. It would be a problem if active barriers are thrown in the path of people of different races and cultures who are interested in cycling. Barring that, I don't see any need to do stress out over our demographics. My own policy is to try to be nice and helpful to anyone who's interested in cycling. It might be a naive approach, but I think it'll get more positive results than any of the alternatives I can imagine.

You are in Atlanta so i figure your view may be more accurate. than mine (warm weateher, as integrated as we are going to get, progressive city) However, here in Cleveland (50/50 black and white, separated by a river) I see Black and White riders about the same. I do see this as an emerging trend born of poverty and the realization most people in the city don't need a car. I have never seen a Black rec. rider. Not until I get out to the White western suburbs do I see any White recreation riders.

What does this mean, nothing I guess. Perhaps some day there will be breakthrough Black rider that gets a new group of people interested in cycling. It can only help the sport.