Southern California - LA Times Biking in LA Article

Today's LA Times has an article about the hazards of riding in LA. I think many in this forum can attest to that :).

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-traffic13aug13,0,1299381.story?coll=la-home-middleright

Heck, not just LA, most of southern california in general isn't very bike friendly... I'm just glad i only have a 2.5 mile sprint for the LA portion of my bike commute.

Ride your bike like you're a slow moving car is the best single rule i can think of. This doesn't just mean that you have all the rights of a car (such as full lane entitlement), it also means you have all the restrictions of a car too (such as signaling your turns/lane changes and NOT RUNNING TRAFFIC LIGHTS AND STOPSIGNS!)

But remember, riding on the sidewalk is legal in LA. Not the best way to ride, but i find it comes in handy for some streets where the are almost no pedestrians, traffic moves too fast, and there is just no shoulder space.

I was born and raised in LA and would never dream of biking there. It's downright terrible. I am glad where I live now (2 hours north) is extremely bike friendly. I can't imagine how fun it would be to ride in placed like Portland or Colorado.

It's nice to hear that there is legislature in the works... At least the government is aware of the issue.

I thought the part about riding more to the left was interesting. I have done this unconsciously in situations where there is just not enough space for a car and me and my bike.

28 deaths, that's terrible.

But remember, riding on the sidewalk is legal in LA. Not the best way to ride, but i find it comes in handy for some streets where the are almost no pedestrians, traffic moves too fast, and there is just no shoulder space.
I always thought that riding a bike on the sidewalk was illegal in LA. Are you sure that it is legal?

Depends on which part of LA. Where I am it's illegal but I have never seen anyone get ticketed. A cop told me it's a $75 ticket.

I was born and raised in LA and would never dream of biking there.That's funny, I don't seem to have a problem riding in mi barrio.

Is this the right thread to complain about CA motorists?

'cause I had a couple encounters this weekend that P#@$ED me off, and feel the need to vent. ;)

Saturday morning, following the group ride in Riverside, I opted to take the long way home back through Moreno Valley and over the hill to San Timoteo Cyn. road. Coming down the last stretch of Redlands Blvd, before the San Tim. intersection, I'm doing 40 or better and some @@$hole in an Audi decides to pass a long line of oncoming traffic. In my lane! Then the moron behind him decides to follow suit. Nothing brightens your day more than an oncoming car or two at 50+ MPH.

I couldn't help but wonder what effect a full water bottle (I had two, and was nearly home. I coulda spared one. Or even better, a CO2 cartridge.) would have on an Audi windshield at 55 mph. I thought better of it and settled on a one finger salute.

That was incident # 1 of the weekend.

Incident #2, I'm returning home from Crestline, and aproaching a stoplight at a freeway overpass. There are two lanes going straight, with the right lane being a freeway onramp. A line of traffic is slowing all the way to the light, which is red, and I'm moving at the speed of traffic, which is < 20 MPH at this point. I don't want to impede the traffic making a right-turn onto the on ramp so I look back and merge over to the left. Apparently this offends the driver behind me, as he lays on his horn (I didn't cut him off, and there was *plenty* of room to merge. Not to mention traffic was coming to a stop!).

Being the always calm and level-headed rider that I am ;), I proceeded to ask him "What his !@#$ing problem is." Apparently he only spoke troglodyte, and simply replied with another honk of the horn.

Dunno of it's gas prices or what, but there seems to be so much hostility (and idiocy) out there, as of late. Watch your backs people.

On Saturday while I was making a left hand turn at an intersection a young man in a van stopped at the light on the other side and yelled "get a car" at me. I was devastated. That incident from a motorist was the worst thing that's ever happened to me in L.A....:(

Depends on which part of LA. Where I am it's illegal but I have never seen anyone get ticketed. A cop told me it's a $75 ticket.

Curious, which part of LA?

I'm pretty sure it's legal though in most parts though. I'm too lazy to search the DMV code at work though... Again, i only use the sidewalk as a last resort for my own safety. If you're curious, i'm only on the sidewalk when heading south on Mission Rd between Interstate 5 and Gallardo St on my way back to Union Station:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=los+angeles,+ca&ie=UTF8&ll=34.057139,-118.217869&spn=0.007342,0.020621&z=16&om=1

Just for that little stretch there is like no shoulder on the southbound side (northbound in the morning is fine), traffic has a tendancy to go uncomfortably fast even when they pass me and i'm trying to take the lane, and i've only ever seen 2 pedestrians on the sidewalk in the last 7 months. So yeah, i'll hop on the sidewalk for that little bit and take a quick breather before sprinting over the Cesar Chavez bridge. :)

to search the DMV code at work though...
Check municipal code 80.29.

Check municipal code 80.29.

Ok, just looked.


SEC. 80.29. VEHICLES SHALL NOT BE DRIVEN ON THE SIDEWALK.

The driver of a vehicle shall not drive within any sidewalk area or any parkway except at a permanent or temporary driveway.Seems like bicycles are a gray area (unless someone can find something explicity stating "no bicycles on sidewalk") since most would interpret vehicle to mean motor vehicle (i know i know, bicycle can = vehicle).

There are references in other sections which imply that bicycles are legal on the sidewalk such as:


SEC. 85.07. REGULATION OF ROLLER-SKATING, SKATEBOARDING AND BICYCLING.

(Added by Ord. No. 166,526, Eff. 1/27/91.)

(a) The Department of Transportation is hereby authorized to install any traffic control devices it determines necessary to regulate roller-skating, skateboarding and bicycling on sidewalks and roadways in order to improve vehicular or pedestrian movement, reduce congestion or diminish accident potential. Such determinations shall be made only on the basis of traffic engineering principles and traffic investigations. When such determinations have been made, the Department is authorized to install signs giving notice as to the nature of the regulation as well as signs that provide such safety warnings as it determines will assist those engaged in the regulated activities.

(b) No person shall roller-skate, skateboard, or operate a bicycle in violation of the limitations set forth on regulatory signs posted pursuant to this section.

I also checked www.labike.org and there was nothing explicitly stating "no bicycle riding on sidewalk" but it did say that such a rule would vary between communities and local ordinances.

As long as you aren't flying/speeding down the sidewalk, most police officers will look the other way. If riding on the sidewalk was totally illegal, then kids would get tickets too...and how many parents would want their kids riding out in the streets, esp if they are learning to ride? It comes down to the speed thing and the ability to stop without causing an accident with a pedestrian/kids or getting injured on somebody's property. On some stretches of roads, the police have recommended using the sidewalks (at reduced speeds) because of the frequency of accidents involving cyclists and cars...it really depends on the situation.

- i cannot believe that CA code regarding bikes doesn't trump local regs...

- down here on the 'left coast,' the code is quite clear regarding bicycles, and is mandated by the state:

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/Safety/ped_bike/laws/ped_bike_bikeLaws1.htm

p.s. tks to OP for linky to article - i'd *hate* to ride under those conditions!

edit: i see that in FL state code, exceptions are granted to 'business districts' - THAT SUCKS!!!!

seriously i think most noob cyclist make that mistake in the article. DONT RIDE SO FAR TO THE RIGHT, people pass you hella close when you do that.

Ride like a car. Take the road. Talk crap back to motorist.

Motorists must have felt the same way when Subaru 360's started appearing on the streets.

Ok, just looked...
I believe that bicycles are considered to be vehicles by the state. However, they are allowed to ride on the sidewalk if there's the appropriate change in local law AFAIK. If there isn't, they aren't. In terms of abuse, I carry a tire iron when biking in dense traffic, just in case I need to change some things. Maybe tires, maybe not... http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif

On Saturday while I was making a left hand turn at an intersection a young man in a van stopped at the light on the other side and yelled "get a car" at me. I was devastated. That incident from a motorist was the worst thing that's ever happened to me in L.A....:(



He's just bitter that his baby momma drama's got him tied down in that beat up '87 Chevy Astro and wishes he had the unabashed freedom of being on a bicycle.

He's just bitter that his baby momma drama's got him tied down in that beat up '87 Chevy Astro and wishes he had the unabashed freedom of being on a bicycle.....and this happened on Longden as I was making a left on Myrtle....:D

Actually, bicycles are not vehicles under the Vehicle Code.


670. A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

A bicycle has a different definition:


231. A bicycle is a device upon which any person may ride, propelled exclusively by human power through a belt, chain, or gears, and having one or more wheels. Persons riding bicycles are subject to the provisions of this code specified in Sections 21200 and 21200.5.
Since a bicycle is propelled exclusively by human power, it cannot meet the definition of "vehicle."

That, however, does not establish if bicycles can go on sidewalks. They are not prohibited from traveling on sidewalks by that particular municipal code section, but are there any other provisions that may govern bicycles? Also, is it 100% clear that the municipal code uses the state Vehicle Code's definitions? I did not see a clear definitional section in the municipal code. And, of course, the municipal code would only govern the City of Los Angeles. It would be meaningless for any other municipality or unincorporated area of Los Angeles County. These include Agoura, Santa Monica, Malibu, Burbank, Glendale, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, among numerous other places.

I was born and raised in LA and would never dream of biking there. It's downright terrible. I am glad where I live now (2 hours north) is extremely bike friendly. I can't imagine how fun it would be to ride in placed like Portland or Colorado.

You like riding in the rain or snow do you???

Actually, bicycles are not vehicles under the Vehicle Code.



A bicycle has a different definition:


Since a bicycle is propelled exclusively by human power, it cannot meet the definition of "vehicle."

That, however, does not establish if bicycles can go on sidewalks. They are not prohibited from traveling on sidewalks by that particular municipal code section, but are there any other provisions that may govern bicycles? Also, is it 100% clear that the municipal code uses the state Vehicle Code's definitions? I did not see a clear definitional section in the municipal code. And, of course, the municipal code would only govern the City of Los Angeles. It would be meaningless for any other municipality or unincorporated area of Los Angeles County. These include Agoura, Santa Monica, Malibu, Burbank, Glendale, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, among numerous other places.

No that doesn't but if you read it more carefully, go to the advocacy and safety forum, and do more research you will find that we are vehicles and we are prohibited from riding on sidewalks

Actually, bicycles are not vehicles under the Vehicle Code.Ah yeah, that's what it was. Bicycles aren't vehicles, however they must abide by all the rules and regs that vehicles have to abide by.

21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.
And local authority can allow bicycles and peds to intermingle.

21206. This chapter does not prevent local authorities, by ordinance, from regulating the registration of bicycles and the parking and operation of bicycles on pedestrian or bicycle facilities, provided such regulation is not in conflict with the provisions of this code.

This is from the CA DMV website..

BICYCLES

Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers. Here are some critical points for drivers and cyclists to remember:

Bicyclists:
must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.
must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical— not on the sidewalk
must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes.
may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle, an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards.
may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of a one-way street.
may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead, he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns.
are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways, when signs are posted. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.

Also, I believe the bikes are referred to as "devices"...

I live in South El Monte...land of sidewalk riders (adults) and as I said, I have never seen or heard of anyone being issued a ticket. I was told it was illegal in South El Monte by both the DMV and the Sheriffs ...but again, are they going to ever ticket a 5 year old on his trike on the sidewalk? Also, although I can't find it now, there was some sort of provision stating illegal except when safer to BE on the sidewalk (say you had to avoid construction, an accident, there was no shoulder, etc.)

I wish that our code was written as clearly and was as specific as Florda's.

I started riding my bike from Silverlake to Hollywood every morning for yoga class. Downtown Hollywood can get some really nasty traffic. I find that people may may get upset and yell and scream at you, but as long as they see you, they won't run you over.

Be seen.

No that doesn't but if you read it more carefully, go to the advocacy and safety forum, and do more research you will find that we are vehicles and we are prohibited from riding on sidewalks

hey ovo..shut tfu

hey ovo..shut tfu

dont hate,


APPRECIATE

No that doesn't but if you read it more carefully, go to the advocacy and safety forum, and do more research you will find that we are vehicles and we are prohibited from riding on sidewalks
Ovo:

As I said above, I always thought bikes were not allowed on sidewalks. However, I read the statute and it clearly states the bikes are not "vehicles" as the the term is defined in the Vehicle Code. Nor is there anything in the Municipal Code that appears to prohibit bikes from riding on sidewalks. I am happy to do more research, but rather than just saying that with more research "I will find that we are vehicles," perhaps it would help for you to identify where I will find that statement. Is there something in the California Code of Regulations (which is nearly impossible to search online)? Is there some other code regulating bicycles of which I am unaware?

Please enlighten me.

Ovo:

As I said above, I always thought bikes were not allowed on sidewalks. However, I read the statute and it clearly states the bikes are not "vehicles" as the the term is defined in the Vehicle Code. Nor is there anything in the Municipal Code that appears to prohibit bikes from riding on sidewalks. I am happy to do more research, but rather...

Please enlighten me.

Hey it IS confusing and I've had this discussion more than once with other cyclists, cops, in "real life".

The problem is ...I don't think "they" are in agreement or really even sure yet where we and our "devices" belong...

The cops around here in my little barrio have bigger fish to fry and don't bother cyclists at all, as far as I can tell.

Bicycles are NOT vehicles, but the bicycle rider is an operator of a vehicle. This is a small distinction that means that we are allowed on the roads just like any car and have all the rights and responsibilities of any other operator of a vehicle.

Bicycles are allowed on sidewalks unless prohibited by a local ordinance which must be posted in the area.

Bikes SHOULD NOT be in traffic lanes. Bikes do not pay road taxes. Bikes should be using bike lanes, sidewalks or alternate routes - but they should not have the same rights as an automobile.
Submitted by: SnappyTom

All of you bike riders need to grow up, get a better job and buy a car.
Submitted by: Adult

These are some of the ignorant comments posted by readers of the LA Times article. I come out of the world of PR and recognize it's ignorance about biking that causes some drivers to react with such stupidity. And since I'm in PR I want to change the opinion that some drivers espouse. You know how they have an adopt a freeway program? Maybe every cyclist should have an adopt a driver program and get a non biker out on a bike one Saturday.;)

Bikes SHOULD NOT be in traffic lanes. Bikes do not pay road taxes. Bikes should be using bike lanes, sidewalks or alternate routes - but they should not have the same rights as an automobile.
Submitted by: SnappyTom

All of you bike riders need to grow up, get a better job and buy a car.
Submitted by: Adult

These are some of the ignorant comments posted by readers of the LA Times article. I come out of the world of PR and recognize it's ignorance about biking that causes some drivers to react with such stupidity. And since I'm in PR I want to change the opinion that some drivers espouse. You know how they have an adopt a freeway program? Maybe every cyclist should have an adopt a driver program and get a non biker out on a bike one Saturday.;)

:roflmao:

Bikes SHOULD NOT be in traffic lanes. Bikes do not pay road taxes. Bikes should be using bike lanes, sidewalks or alternate routes - but they should not have the same rights as an automobile.
Submitted by: SnappyTom

All of you bike riders need to grow up, get a better job and buy a car.
Submitted by: Adult

These are some of the ignorant comments posted by readers of the LA Times article. I come out of the world of PR and recognize it's ignorance about biking that causes some drivers to react with such stupidity. And since I'm in PR I want to change the opinion that some drivers espouse. You know how they have an adopt a freeway program? Maybe every cyclist should have an adopt a driver program and get a non biker out on a bike one Saturday.;)

Heh, you know what's funny about those comments? I own a car. I paid my taxes. I probably have a better job than the people who post those comments. Oh and did i mention i own a car? :p

And when i say own i mean own. i don't mean i have 4 more years left in payments that i probably can't afford or i'm driving a beater which may not make it to the next oil change. :D

Heh, you know what's funny about those comments? I own a car. I paid my taxes. I probably have a better job than the people who post those comments. Oh and did i mention i own a car? :p

And when i say own i mean own. i don't mean i have 4 more years left in payments that i probably can't afford or i'm driving a beater which may not make it to the next oil change. :D

But does your car pay taxes?

But does your car pay taxes?
Nope. :D Neither does anybody elses.

As I said above, I always thought bikes were not allowed on sidewalks. However, I read the statute and it clearly states the bikes are not "vehicles" as the the term is defined in the Vehicle Code.
Bicycles are allowed on sidewalks unless prohibited by a local ordinance which must be posted in the area.Bicycles aren't allowed on sidewalks unless allowed by a local ordinance.

21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.
We are not vehicles, however we also can't ride on the sidewalk since that's applicable to us. Unless of course the local authorities allow it.

21206. This chapter does not prevent local authorities, by ordinance, from regulating the registration of bicycles and the parking and operation of bicycles on pedestrian or bicycle facilities, provided such regulation is not in conflict with the provisions of this code.


Nope. :D Neither does anybody elses.Speak fer yer own car f00! You really thing the Hoff can do his own taxes?
http://crashpod.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/night_rider.jpg

...Speak fer yer own car f00! You really thing the Hoff can do his own taxes?
http://crashpod.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/night_rider.jpg
Ok ok... Youre right. But isn't that why they locked up KITT at Universal Studios under the guise of an exhibit? :roflmao:

- i cannot believe that CA code regarding bikes doesn't trump local regs...

- down here on the 'left coast,' the code is quite clear regarding bicycles, and is mandated by the state:

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/Safety/ped_bike/laws/ped_bike_bikeLaws1.htm



The "left coast" ?!? Last I checked, Florida voted Republican. The entire West Coast voted 'left'. When looking at a map, the West Coast is on the Left.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/statemapredblue.png

The "left coast" ?!? Last I checked, Florida voted Republican. The entire West Coast voted 'left'. When looking at a map, the West Coast is on the Left.



I believe he was referring to the "Left" coast of Florida.

Ok ok... Youre right. But isn't that why they locked up KITT at Universal Studios under the guise of an exhibit? :roflmao:A conspiracy, likely brought about by the Hoff's jealousy! :eek: :D

Bikes SHOULD NOT be in traffic lanes. Bikes do not pay road taxes. Bikes should be using bike lanes, sidewalks or alternate routes - but they should not have the same rights as an automobile.
Submitted by: SnappyTom




Don't go messin' with SnappyTom now!!!

http://www.snappytom.com/images/product_group_shot.jpg

. . . . I wish that our code was written as clearly and was as specific as Florda's.
It is. It simply says that bicycles, while not specifically within the definition of a "vehicle" as defined by the California Vehicle Code, must comply with all rules and regulations set forth by the California Vehicle Code when being operated on a public highway, except as modified by local ordinance or regulation which is not in conflict with the California Vehicle Code.

Bicycles aren't allowed on sidewalks unless allowed by a local ordinance.

21200. (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.
We are not vehicles, however we also can't ride on the sidewalk since that's applicable to us. Unless of course the local authorities allow it.

21206. This chapter does not prevent local authorities, by ordinance, from regulating the registration of bicycles and the parking and operation of bicycles on pedestrian or bicycle facilities, provided such regulation is not in conflict with the provisions of this code.

There's a crucial distinction between "vehicle" and "motor vehicle" in the vehicle codes that makes all the difference here.

21200 says that cyclists have the same rights and duties as a "driver of a vehicle". All the laws governing movements (left turns, right turns, etc.) are all phrased like: "the driver of a vehicle must..." Therefore, those also apply to cyclists.

Here is the law that prohibits motor vehicles on sidewalks: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21663.htm

21663. Except as expressly permitted pursuant to this code, including Sections 21100. 4 and 21114.5, no person shall operate or move a motor vehicle upon a sidewalk except as may be necessary to enter or leave adjacent property.

Note the use of the term "motor vehicle" instead of "vehicle". Things such as registration, smog checks, etc., that were only intended to apply to cars say "motor vehicle" instead of "vehicle". The prohibition on using the sidewalk was also only intended for cars.

In addition to 21206, here is where authority is given to regulate bicycling on sidewalks: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21100.htm

21100. Local authorities may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution regarding the following matters:
(h) Operation of bicycles, and, as specified in Section 21114.5, electric carts by physically disabled persons, or persons 50 years of age or older, on the public sidewalks.

Therefore, sidewalk cycling is legal, because it isn't illegal (unless illegal by local ordinance).

Also, the provision in 21200 is prefaced with "every person riding a bicycle upon a highway." I would interpret that to mean "if you ride your bike on a highway, you must obey all the same laws that govern people driving cars." However, it does not go so far as to say that a person on a bicycle may only ride on a highway. It may seem like a trivial difference in language, but statutory interpretation often turns on such trivial differences.

The legal definition of "highway" includes any road, its shoulder, and other facilities within the right-of-way, including the sidewalk. Quite different from how we would use "highway" in the "normal" sense of the word.

I say take full advantage of our ambiguous status!

I race along in the center of the lane, unobstructed, gleefully ignoring the occasional honker behind me.
But when someone dares to impede my way--usually a bus or the idiots in my neighborhood who regularly abandon their cars with flashers on in the middle of the street--I leap on up the curve, use the sidewalk to pass the obstacle, and then get back in the street.

I've been told I can do this with impunity as long as I'm not endangering pedestrians. Nobody walks in L.A.

Now I've got that stupid song in my head!

LCI_Brian, OIC! Seems like a reasonable explanation, and would allow me much more legal flexibility regarding where I ride provided it is correct. I think I may go have a chat w/ the DMV or a CHP officer and ask 'em about it... :D

The legal definition of "highway" includes any road, its shoulder, and other facilities within the right-of-way, including the sidewalk. Quite different from how we would use "highway" in the "normal" sense of the word.
I'm not sure where you found that definition. Section 360 of the Vehicle Code states:


"Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.

A sidewalk would not be a way or place "for purposes of vehicular travel."