A Definition of Dropping

[The Historian]

The term "dropped" is getting thrown around in a number of posts here in Clydeland, and I'd like to have a precise definition of the term. People I rode with on Saturday mock-accused me of dropping the other half of Neils on Wheels. "How could you drop the Feinster?" they said. "Neil, you are the last person I'd ever expect to drop another rider."

I don't consider myself to have dropped Neil because:

- we never agreed we would ride side by side throughout any event. In fact, for most of the first half of the metric we completed in Delaware Neil F. was miles ahead of me, and I didn't consider myself as 'dropped'.

- I knew he would catch up to me, for despite his protests here, he's faster than me. Being younger, smaller, 50 pounds lighter, and having properly working joints counts for a lot.

- If I had any concern at all about Neil F.'s abilities, or thought he was in any sort of trouble, I wouldn't have pulled ahead.

[bdinger]

My oft riding partner Oliver and I do the whole see-saw thing quite often. Oliver and I started riding around the same time, but he lucked out and started with half the weight as I. Now a very svelte 170 pounds, he's quite the speed demon and climber. On climbs I can start to keep up with him, but often he'll end up a speck in the distance :). On downhills, sometimes I'll do the same thing to him. I say "sometimes" because even with my gravity advantage, he can still drop me if he wanted to :).

However, truth be told we're pretty even on flat paths/roads for the most part. If he decides he wants to go, he's gone, but beyond that we're good :).

Now dropping is just the brutal act of purposely destroying your opponent. Or it's just either passing someone, or being passed. The most brutally I've ever been dropped was by a gent on a Bianchi fixie. I say gent because he was courteous as he made me feel as I was sitting still :). I've also "dropped" people, passing them as if they were standing still.

So regarding you and Neil F, I think it only would have been a "drop" had you agreed to ride side by side, or ride at a pace that you exceeded.

[KingTermite]

You got dropped.

[Terrierman]

I would think the plain definition of drop is to ride faster than the other guy and leave him behind. To be very honest, I find it slightly humorous and a little difficult to understand the fascination with the whole thing. If a person is that competitive, get in a real bike race with other competitiors and see how you do would be the logical approach, at least to me. Reminds me of high school when pecking order in certain groups related to how fast your car was (or was at least percieved to be). Maybe it's compensating for seeming misperceptions about personal worth / self image relating to body size? Clearly, I'm in the minority here with that thinking though... and the whole not getting the why of it.

[jcm]

On sunday's I ride with a local club. We have a No Rider Left Behind policy. To us, dropping is when you out-pace another rider, leaving them far in the distance - and never stopping to re-group. There is nothing wrong with a group of riders having faster people in the mix. That's natural. They are free to blast ahead, but with the caveat that they are expected to wait at some obvious point until the ride leader catches up in order to notify him/her that they are leaving the ride and are on their own. That's fair and safe.

The slower riders are cared for in that we send a volunteer back to sweep every ride. Often this is one of the faster, more experienced riders.

Out-running and dropping another rider in a group/club scenario is Bad Form.

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Ocasionally, if I am riding with a slower rider, I'll let them know I'm going to stretch it a bit to jack up the HR, and I'll be back with them shortly. That's not a drop.;) That's just getting soe HR action on a short windsprint.:D

If I would just dump them on a ride and not worry about them (which I will NEVER, under any circumstances do:(), then that's a drop.

If I am racing someone and they know I'm racing them and I eat them alive, then that's a drop.:D

[neilfein]

Saying I was dropped was a compliment to Neil B., in case nobody got that.

I think you're all overthinking this. :rolleyes:

[Tom Stormcrowe]

I figured as much, but was going with the flow.;):p

Actually, if Neil B keeps with the level of progress he's had to date, I expect him to be the Lead Rider for Phonak in TdF 2009!:p (and I'm only half kidding!)

[solveg]

I still don't quite* get the concept.

I know when guys do this with cars, they pull up next to each other and rev their engines and then go.

But on bikes, you don't have any idea how far the other person has already ridden, what kind of ride they're trying to do (i.e. recovery), or if the other person even knows he's being raced. I suppose there's a certain type of bike that would indicate willingless, similar to hot rods. Actually, THAT makes sense to me. I'd love to pass someone on my Bridgestone if they were riding a madone. But it doesn't seem to be bike dependent.

Roadies could be posting this very minute in great detail the huge dropping I recieved at their hands, while I on the other hand, woudn't even remember I saw the guy.

Is there a special signal, equal to the car revving, that I'm missing?

[BeckyW]

I have to admit, I get a little kick out of it when I'm faster than ANYBODY.:rolleyes:

[CastIron]

Since there is a question on the matter...

You've been dropped when you can no longer stay with the person despite making some attempt at doing so. You've dropped someone when you wish to brag.
We all have our moments.

[uncadan8]

The term "dropped" is getting thrown around in a number of posts here in Clydeland, and I'd like to have a precise definition of the term. People I rode with on Saturday mock-accused me of dropping the other half of Neils on Wheels. "How could you drop the Feinster?" they said. "Neil, you are the last person I'd ever expect to drop another rider."

I don't consider myself to have dropped Neil because:

- we never agreed we would ride side by side throughout any event. In fact, for most of the first half of the metric we completed in Delaware Neil F. was miles ahead of me, and I didn't consider myself as 'dropped'.

- I knew he would catch up to me, for despite his protests here, he's faster than me. Being younger, smaller, 50 pounds lighter, and having properly working joints counts for a lot.

- If I had any concern at all about Neil F.'s abilities, or thought he was in any sort of trouble, I wouldn't have pulled ahead.

I think knocking someone off their bike in the parking lot qualifies as "dropping" someone!:D:D:D

[uncadan8]

A drop is when you leave someone behind with no intention of letting them catch back up. Passing someone is simply passing someone. There is no guarantee that they won't catch you again. When you are at the end of the ride, sipping a lemonade, and your comrade finally arrives looking like he was run over by a truck (be sure he wasn't before making any wry comments on his appearance!), then you might be able to consider that you have dropped him. However, if he bonked, then his bonking supersedes your dropping him. Either way, you beat him to the end, so revel in the moment and enjoy that lemonade. But offer one to your buddy; don't leave it to him to go get one.

[Stujoe]

Dropping someone is, as of yet, still an unfulfilled dream for me. :D

[JeeperTim]

To me dropping is if you go out for a ride with a group, and they take off and leave you. The worst would be if you don't know the route or if you depend on them to give you a ride home or something.
Guys on roadies pass me all the time - I don't care. I purposly ride a heavy MTB - losing weight and getting fit. Speed and even miles are not my primary concern.
As I approach my goal weight - I'm thinking about a hybrid, cyclecross, or something easier to ride... but for now The MTB is fine. I've found that averaging over 15 MPH on it is almost not possible.

[jaxgtr]

I think knocking someone off their bike in the parking lot qualifies as "dropping" someone!:D:D:D

:roflmao:

[Wogsterca]

To me dropping is if you go out for a ride with a group, and they take off and leave you. The worst would be if you don't know the route or if you depend on them to give you a ride home or something.
Guys on roadies pass me all the time - I don't care. I purposly ride a heavy MTB - losing weight and getting fit. Speed and even miles are not my primary concern.
As I approach my goal weight - I'm thinking about a hybrid, cyclecross, or something easier to ride... but for now The MTB is fine. I've found that averaging over 15 MPH on it is almost not possible.

I used to ride with my brother-in-law, and a couple of his buddies, and they, all younger, and in better shape then I was at the time, would take off hell bent for leather. It was fine if I knew the route, but sometimes I didn't, so I would just ride at my own pace and catch up with them at rest stops. After a month or so, I figured that, if I was going to ride alone anyway, I could save the car trip to where they were riding, and just putter on my own, so I quit going. Those guys all quit riding, so I think if they decided to ride now, I could easily drop them!:D

[The Historian]

I think knocking someone off their bike in the parking lot qualifies as "dropping" someone!:D:D:D

OK, since Dan insists on bringing this up again and again....

I met Dan two weeks after I got my first bicycle. I'd had less than two hours riding experience. Still, I had the chutzpah to post to the Fat Cyclist forums about my goals. My future bike mentor emailed me and invited me to ride with him in Valley Forge Park. I tried to warn him about the sort of 'cyclist' he would meet. Dan must have assumed I was being modest when I described myself as a novice rider. He quickly discovered I was only about one pedal stroke beyond treating the bike as a scooter. He then discovered, the hard way, that I couldn't signal a stop properly. Under the circumstances Dan felt obliged to offer further assistance to me in the future. He took away from that meeting both a case of road rash and the sinking feeling "what have I got myself into?"

I had very much the same thought. After meeting Dan, cycling all of a sudden became serious to me. I dropped 30 additional pounds and learned enough that I could ride a metric century. All spurred by his example. So blame him. :-)

[The Historian]

:roflmao:

Please don't encourage him, Brian.

[The Historian]

A drop is when you leave someone behind with no intention of letting them catch back up.

I recall at least once during the ride on Saturday I was ahead of you. I'll let you guess my intentions. :-)

[uncadan8]

So blame him. :-)

I wholeheartedly accept all blame for the fine cyclist you are turning out to be. I always knew you had it in you.

[The Historian]

Saying I was dropped was a compliment to Neil B., in case nobody got that.

I think you're all overthinking this. :rolleyes:

I didn't get it. It's bothered me for two days now. In April I was dropped from a beginner's ride by an "instructor" at the Bicycle Club of Philadelphia. The last thing I'd want to do is treat anyone, let alone you, the way I was treated.

[The Historian]

I figured as much, but was going with the flow.;):p

Actually, if Neil B keeps with the level of progress he's had to date, I expect him to be the Lead Rider for Phonak in TdF 2009!:p (and I'm only half kidding!)

Sigh, another fellow who wants to put me on drop bars. :-)

[The Historian]

My oft riding partner Oliver and I do the whole see-saw thing quite often. Oliver and I started riding around the same time, but he lucked out and started with half the weight as I. Now a very svelte 170 pounds, he's quite the speed demon and climber. On climbs I can start to keep up with him, but often he'll end up a speck in the distance :). On downhills, sometimes I'll do the same thing to him. I say "sometimes" because even with my gravity advantage, he can still drop me if he wanted to :).

However, truth be told we're pretty even on flat paths/roads for the most part. If he decides he wants to go, he's gone, but beyond that we're good :).

Now dropping is just the brutal act of purposely destroying your opponent. Or it's just either passing someone, or being passed. The most brutally I've ever been dropped was by a gent on a Bianchi fixie. I say gent because he was courteous as he made me feel as I was sitting still :). I've also "dropped" people, passing them as if they were standing still.

So regarding you and Neil F, I think it only would have been a "drop" had you agreed to ride side by side, or ride at a pace that you exceeded.

Agreed. Thanks, Ben. Neil F. was a guest in my home that weekend. I was horrified that I might have been rude to him on the ride by pulling ahead.

[The Historian]

I wholeheartedly accept all blame for the fine cyclist you are turning out to be. I always knew you had it in you.

And as I wrote at Fat Cyclist:

While there are many people I could individually name who offered me encouragement and advice from the start, one stands out. As I wrote in January:

"...I did learn more about bicycling than I have from anyone I've spoken with so far. I have a lot of work cut out for me, but thanks to Dan's good advice I have a much better idea of what I need to do and how to do it. It was very kind of him to give up his time on my behalf. Thank you, Dan."

Eight months later there's not a word I would change. (OK, "learned" is better than "did learn" in the first sentence.) Thank you, Uncadan.

Sincerely,
Neil Brennen, Cyclist

[solveg]

OK, since Dan insists on bringing this up again and again....

I met Dan two weeks after I got my first bicycle. I'd had less than two hours riding experience. Still, I had the chutzpah to post to the Fat Cyclist forums about my goals. My future bike mentor emailed me and invited me to ride with him in Valley Forge Park. I tried to warn him about the sort of 'cyclist' he would meet. Dan must have assumed I was being modest when I described myself as a novice rider. He quickly discovered I was only about one pedal stroke beyond treating the bike as a scooter. He then discovered, the hard way, that I couldn't signal a stop properly. Under the circumstances Dan felt obliged to offer further assistance to me in the future. He took away from that meeting both a case of road rash and the sinking feeling "what have I got myself into?"

I had very much the same thought. After meeting Dan, cycling all of a sudden became serious to me. I dropped 30 additional pounds and learned enough that I could ride a metric century. All spurred by his example. So blame him. :-)


I love this story. It's nice to know that there are patient people like Dan willing to help newbies and get some gravel in the knees for their effort. I wish I had someone to ride with and teach me.

Does everyone really signal each time they stop????? You don't signal at every stoplight and stop sign, do you? I don't ride with other bikers, though.

The stop signal, if I'm doing it right and it's left arm down, always cracks me up because it's the same as a "moving stand" in dog obedience, so it's like I'm telling all the car behind me to wait still.

[The Historian]

I love this story. It's nice to know that there are patient people like Dan willing to help newbies and get some gravel in the knees for their effort. I wish I had someone to ride with and teach me.

Does everyone really signal each time they stop????? You don't signal at every stoplight and stop sign, do you? I don't ride with other bikers, though.

The stop signal, if I'm doing it right and it's left arm down, always cracks me up because it's the same as a "moving stand" in dog obedience, so it's like I'm telling all the car behind me to wait still.

I rarely signal, since I have balance problems. I do it when I need to, but not if I don't.

To help Dan keep his patience, I've tried to remember he's an ultracyclist in training, not a teacher. So I've never asked to ride with him, but instead waited to be invited. I've bombarded him with questions, but again he encouraged them. And often my questions have forced him to rethink his own opinions, at least to the extent he needed to in order to explain them properly. So the benefits of this mentorship haven't been entirely one-sided. Still, I feel very fortunate to have Dan's friendship.

[Bob Loblaw]

My opinion on dropping:

You cannot get 'dropped' unless you are in competition. Albeit an organized road race, or a group ride that someone feels they have to 'win'.

Passing someone does not constitute a drop. Especially if you have no idea if they even care to keep up with you.

The other day while riding my road bike, I passed a guy riding a full-suspension mountain bike. Did I drop him? hehe... don't think so. :-)

This reminds me of an interesting thing that happens during motorcycle road races. You always get practice sessions in the morning, and then a single 'sighting' lap (or warm-up lap) right before the race. There are always guys that would go out and try to win practice, or win the warm-up lap. I always got a kick out of it, because inevitably, these were the guys that would end up in the hay bails. In practice.

[uncadan8]

My opinion on dropping:

You cannot get 'dropped' unless you are in competition. Albeit an organized road race, or a group ride that someone feels they have to 'win'.

Passing someone does not constitute a drop. Especially if you have no idea if they even care to keep up with you.



I agree with this wholeheartedly. Blasting by the old geezer on a Suteki who doesn't even know you are in the same county until he sees your lycra-clad keester in front of him hardly counts as dropping someone. Not that I would know anything about that of course.

[uncadan8]

I recall at least once during the ride on Saturday I was ahead of you. I'll let you guess my intentions. :-)

:eek::eek: I'm so hurt!:eek::eek:

So you were ahead of my by what, half a wheel length?;) And attacking at the rest stops doesn't count! We won't even go into how many rest stops I waited at...

[The Historian]

:eek::eek: I'm so hurt!:eek::eek:

So you were ahead of my by what, half a wheel length?;) And attacking at the rest stops doesn't count! We won't even go into how many rest stops I waited at...

I distinctly remember telling "freemti" that I was "dropping back to see if Dan was OK." I dropped back too far. :-)

And you only waited at one rest stop.

[uncadan8]

I distinctly remember telling "freemti" that I was "dropping back to see if Dan was OK." I dropped back too far. :-)

And you only waited at one rest stop.

And that intersection at the bottom of the first big hill, the intersection at the top of the first big hill, the first rest stop, the second...

My Garmin counted 4 stops and those are just the ones where I switched off the unit to preserve power!

[BCIpam]

Does everyone really signal each time they stop????? You don't signal at every stoplight and stop sign, do you? I don't ride with other bikers, though.

.

What club riding has taught me is to signal or risk having someone drive up your butt! It's become such a habit I now signal when riding alone. It also lets cars know what I am doing.

I suppose if I rode out in the country where there are few cars, few cyclist or people I wouldn't bother. But I ride in an urban area. Just best to let folks know what you are doing

[BCIpam]

My opinion on dropping:

You cannot get 'dropped' unless you are in competition. Albeit an organized road race, or a group ride that someone feels they have to 'win'.

.

Mmmmm I might disagree with you. I do alot of club riding. We all start out as a group and the plan is to ride together but eventually people get "dropped" ie , can't hang with the main pack and fall off in pace.

It happens to me alot. Oh well, I seldom mind as I like to ride at my own pace, not the forced pace of the peleton. If I am in training I will force myself to hang with the main pack but otherwise, no problems, drop me.

Now I do have an issue if a group decides to do a "no drop" and people are left behind. There should alwys be an understanding that at certain ocations or intervals, the entire pack stops and allows everyone (not just the next fastest) to catch up. It seldom works in practice though.

[The Historian]

And that intersection at the bottom of the first big hill, the intersection at the top of the first big hill, the first rest stop, the second...

My Garmin counted 4 stops and those are just the ones where I switched off the unit to preserve power!

I'm sorry you were so tired you needed to rest all those places. :-)

[uncadan8]

I'm sorry you were so tired you needed to rest all those places. :-)

'Twas a tough day. Tough day.

[neilfein]

Does everyone really signal each time they stop????? You don't signal at every stoplight and stop sign, do you? I don't ride with other bikers, though.

Only if I think that cars behind me need to know. If I'm stopping with the traffic (light, stop sign) I don't see the point. And most of the time I'm too busy properly braking to signal.

[JeeperTim]

I never signal to stop - I'm either riding alone or everyone is ahead of me. ;)