Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Need advice to help friend...

Hi all-
I don't know how appropriate this is for this forum, but considering many of you have made truly inspirational changes in health, fitness and weight, I thought I'd give it a go...

Someone close to me has fallen out of shape terribly, and it's very much concerning me. This person is older, ~60+ yrs old and is about 120lbs overweight. This person is at the point where a lack of exercise, combined with the effects of getting older and being a physically large person would make exercising very challenging. In other words, becoming healthy/fit would be a tremendous challenge that would require a lot of work, taken in very small steps. Not to mention that this person is a long-time smoker.

I'd really like to help this person become healthy for a variety of reasons. Physical health of course, but also mental health. I think that the poor fitness/health is taking a toll on mental health, confidence, ability to enjoy life, etc... Of course I want them to stick around as long as possible too.

Can someone offer some suggestions on how to approach this? It has become clear that this person isn't going to (or at least hasn't) done anything to improve the situation on their own. This person is very close to me, and I REALLY would not want to insult this person or make them feel badly. I'm just concerned for them. I think this really needs doctor supervision as well, but I don't really know. I think this person would have a difficult time walking 1/2 mile or so continually without back pain/foot pain, etc... I'd just like to help them snap out of it this viscous cycle but I know this must be handled carefully. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Bob

Sorry for duplicate post... Can a mod delete this please?

I know you want to help this person, but they truly have to want to make these changes. If exersize is difficult for this person, have them use a pool if one is available. It is less strenuous on the joints and can be fun....and if they are single, they might even meet someone:)

Oh, and make sure they see a doctor first....


the other suggestion would be to introduce them to the guy in my avatar....just kidding

the other suggestion would be to introduce them to the guy in my avatar....just kidding

How is that funny?

If a person needs the help, it may be worth taking the risk of insulting them. Tell them that you are worried and suggest that they seek some kind of help in creating a plan.

Have you ever heard of an intervention? Its a 12-stepper type of thing. Basically the idea is you get all the people who care about the person with a problem together and confront them in a loving manner. Typically you send them to rehab, which is a good option if you can afford it.

You can pay a counselor to help set it up and its supposed to be hell of motivating.

All in all it sounds like your friend has just given up on life-- physically, mentally, emotionally, and is not trying to do anything for himself-- it will be very difficult for one person (you) to address whatever made your friend so sad that they are choosing to neglect their health. You probably don't have the time or emotional resources to deal with this by yourself, so I think you should seek professional help.

I think its funny....

Since you say you're very close to this person, I assume you can speak openly with each other. Cohophysh is 100% right when he says it has to be their choice, but that doesn't mean you can't be proactive and supportive. You might open by asking him if he wants to lose weight. He probably does, but may have given up - that gives you an opportunity to help without taking away his power and independence.

As much as you may want to, you can't do it for him. You can offer to walk/ride/swim with him, cook/plan meals together, work toward some common goal... but the will to succeed must be his.

I debated replying to this thread and may yet regret it. I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a 60 year old highly overweight smoker to change his or her ways because you think they should. They already know their lifestyle choices are horrid and continue down the same path. If there is to be any hope for this person to experience a change in the areas you are concerned about, they need to hear it in plain language that they are losing out on what life offers and will likely die prematurely unless they change a lot of things. They need to hear it from someone they respect and trust and who is qualified to speak on the matter. The family doctor is IMHO not doing his job unless he's already had that conversation with this person. Ask the person in question if they've had a talk about their general state of health with their doctor and if not, ask them to. Beyond that, you are helpless, again, in my opinion. Others likely have different ideas on how to approach the matter.

Are you talking about me?
I just had a revelation courtesy of one of my best friends. I was 100 poinds overweight and in a cycle of TV and no activity. My buddy just flat out told me he was very concerned about the way I looked (not necessarily the fat, just my color and inability to do the things I used to do).
He convinced me to go see the doctor (another good friend), and we are now on a program of healthy eating and exercise. The exercise comes mostly from bicycling, and I was even shirking that regularly. When one of my 2 posts on this forum was a whine about it being too hot to ride, I immediately got a response that any exercise is better than sitting, and that was exactly what I needed to hear.
The result? 26 pounds lost, riding an average of 5 miles a day, feeling and looking better--
I needed someone to kick my butt, and my friends did it at the right time. I honestly believe they may have saved my life.
In addition, this forum is great for a slacker like me--I get to see what other overweight folks are doing, and that gives me an incentive to persevere.
So, I guess I'm saying, "Tell him straight--you may save his life."

I have a good friend, someone I have known for many years (about 25) I've tried to get into exercise because his health gets worse and worse each year (I think he weighs around 315 lbs). But bottom line, he has to be motivated and want to exercise (and thus change his lifestyle) I can't, no matter how much I try, make him.

It's like trying to lose weight. If it were that easy no one would be fat. If exercise were that easy, no one would be out of shape. I've always like exercise and working out... it's my nature. But I know many people who rather die (and do!) than get sweaty and dirty and outside (with bugs and sun) and away from the TV or computer.

First thing to do is to have a candid talk with your friend and offer your help. If he refuses then let it go. If he is interested, than take very baby steps. Maybe commit to meeting him each morning for a walk down the block and back. I wouldn't try bicycle right off the bat. Just too difficult and too easy to fail. Walking. Or take him to your gym and get him on the recumbent lifecycle. 15 minutes, slowly. That's all he needs to start. And encourage, encourage, encourage. Positive feedback is a motivator.

Good luck. It's a nice thing you want to do and I wish you the best.

I'll chime in as well here. Yes, I think it's a great idea and yes, I think you should do this. I would also remind you that if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, because ultimately, it's his choice.

For starters, I really like the suggestion made about a pool program. Water Aerobics and pool walking is a great low impact exercise and is very effective. It can also be a lot of fun, and the "fun factor" is going to be the motivator that I think will be the most effective. Participate with him, by the way, as much as possible.

A sad reality of helping people is that you cannot help someone that is not willing to help themselves but, showing them the benefits of a change in lifestyle may be the key. There may be several serious issues associated with this place in their life that need to be addressed.

Kudos for trying to help but recognize your efforts may not be appreciated....

I merged your accidental double thread with this one. Good luck, by the way.....

Do you have a spare bike that fits him?
If he's over at your house, make some excuse about having to test out a couple "adjustments" on your bike and having to ride around the block. You need him to "follow you" to make sure your bike is tracking right.
Have a store nearby? Let's ride down to the store to get some chips!
Maybe IF you can get him/her on a bike ONCE, the 2nd time won't be so difficult.

Have a store nearby? Let's ride down to the store to get some chips!
.

Now how is that helping???? If we all didn't ride (drive or walk) to the store for chips we may not be posting on this thread!!!! :rolleyes::p;)

Seriously (sortof) one way to get someone out is the promise of a "reward" - like doing lunch after or riding to a lunch spot and then riding back. I have a good friend that won't ride unless we promise to stop for coffee so he can get a Bear claw!

I debated replying to this thread and may yet regret it. I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a 60 year old highly overweight smoker to change his or her ways because you think they should. They already know their lifestyle choices are horrid and continue down the same path. If there is to be any hope for this person to experience a change in the areas you are concerned about, they need to hear it in plain language that they are losing out on what life offers and will likely die prematurely unless they change a lot of things. They need to hear it from someone they respect and trust and who is qualified to speak on the matter. The family doctor is IMHO not doing his job unless he's already had that conversation with this person. Ask the person in question if they've had a talk about their general state of health with their doctor and if not, ask them to. Beyond that, you are helpless, again, in my opinion. Others likely have different ideas on how to approach the matter.

Hear! Hear! I worked on this with someone very close to me. When they finally made the decision to change, they did it on their own. They always knew that they needed to; the prodding from me didn't really make much of a difference. The best thing you can do is offer your assistance when they are ready to make the change.

Now how is that helping???? If we all didn't ride (drive or walk) to the store for chips we may not be posting on this thread!!!! :rolleyes::p;)

Seriously (sortof) one way to get someone out is the promise of a "reward" - like doing lunch after or riding to a lunch spot and then riding back. I have a good friend that won't ride unless we promise to stop for coffee so he can get a Bear claw!

Sometimes on Saturday mornings I get up and ride to breakfast and ride back. A couple of pancakes and a couple of eggs and a couple of cups of coffee are a pretty nice reward. I give that one to me now and then, cause I like me and I deserve it. If I wanted a bear claw, I'd have that instead.

Now how is that helping???? If we all didn't ride (drive or walk) to the store for chips we may not be posting on this thread!!!! :rolleyes::p;)

Seriously (sortof) one way to get someone out is the promise of a "reward" - like doing lunch after or riding to a lunch spot and then riding back. I have a good friend that won't ride unless we promise to stop for coffee so he can get a Bear claw!

I used to ride to this place that had really good ice cream, sure ice cream isn't that healthy, but with a 20 mile ride tacked onto each end, it's nowhere near as bad as if you drive.:D

I have a friend, much younger and severely obese. I have approached her numerous times about doing something for herself, but at this point she just has not reach rock bottom and just will not help herself. I thought using my experience in my weight loss might change her mind or motivate her to get off the pot as they say, but no dice. She is just not ready to do something to correct it. It does not help that her husband is basically an enabler of her condition and I have not been able to get him on board either.

It's a tough situation but I still talk to her at least once a week to do something, walk, swim, something. That is basically all I can do, talk to her an try to get her to help herself.

Good luck.

Brian it's a nice thing you do but again we can't force anyone to make changes...

Especially with weight loss. There are so many issues that need to be addressed first and foremost why she overeats. Tackle that (good luck! especially wit her husband) and maybe prodding her to exercise will help.

And you know some people hate physcal stuff. My sister has a weight problem but I can't get her out to exercise. She just hates the whole process. So I'm working on at least getting her interested in somehing else. She started volunteering her time at a local hospital holding sick babies. Time consumed doing something good, less time to eat.

There maybe other ways to get your friend to stop eating.

As for me, thank goodness I have exercise or I would be a Brookhaven patient!!!

Yea I hear ya, but she is just depressed about her weight and situation and uses food to try to escape it, it just a bad circle. I wish I could just get her husband to stop being the enabler, that is my biggest battle. He refuses to do anything that will help her, force the issue, nothing. He does not make her do things on her own, he does everything for her. I am just afraid that she is going to drop dead before she turns 50 and at the pace she is going, it will happen. She is such a loving caring person and the world would just be a much sadder place if she was not in it.

There maybe other ways to get your friend to stop eating.

This is what makes a food addiction so evil, an alcoholic can quit drinking, a smoker can quit smoking, heck a drug addict can quit, not that this is easy for the alcoholic, the smoker or the druggie, but programs like AA do preach total abstinence for a reason. It's easier to quit completely then it is to cut back, how many 3 pack a day smokers who cut back to a pack a day aren't back to 3 packs within a few weeks.

This is what over eaters are faced with, they can't quit eating, but they need to cut back, and stay that way, which is much harder. Exercise can be a huge help, but larger people tend not to want to, however swimming and cycling, often end up acceptable, because they are low impact. I am a good case, I over eat, and I know I do, and I know the cause, for generations we have used food as a social thing, and as a comfort thing, and looking back at the family photos, many folks were pleasantly plump, and got plumper as they got older. My wifes family is the same, and you can tell from their family photos, as well.

The only thing keeping me from being heavier then I am, is that I do heavy labour, lots of lifting and carrying, and lots of walking as well, you can often tell the new guys, they are heavier:D I also ride, and right now, do not have a car. So I burn off a lot of energy as well, about 2000 a day at work, and 200 a day cycling, plus of course the static needs of a 46 year old, 215lb guy.

Hi all-
I don't know how appropriate this is for this forum, but considering many of you have made truly inspirational changes in health, fitness and weight, I thought I'd give it a go...

Someone close to me has fallen out of shape terribly, and it's very much concerning me. This person is older, ~60+ yrs old and is about 120lbs overweight. This person is at the point where a lack of exercise, combined with the effects of getting older and being a physically large person would make exercising very challenging. In other words, becoming healthy/fit would be a tremendous challenge that would require a lot of work, taken in very small steps. Not to mention that this person is a long-time smoker.

I'd really like to help this person become healthy for a variety of reasons. Physical health of course, but also mental health. I think that the poor fitness/health is taking a toll on mental health, confidence, ability to enjoy life, etc... Of course I want them to stick around as long as possible too.

Can someone offer some suggestions on how to approach this? It has become clear that this person isn't going to (or at least hasn't) done anything to improve the situation on their own. This person is very close to me, and I REALLY would not want to insult this person or make them feel badly. I'm just concerned for them. I think this really needs doctor supervision as well, but I don't really know. I think this person would have a difficult time walking 1/2 mile or so continually without back pain/foot pain, etc... I'd just like to help them snap out of it this viscous cycle but I know this must be handled carefully. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Bob

I've been through this from both sides. Since I wrote about it on my blog, I'll copy from it:

*****
I have a friend who has a severe weight problem. He's older than I am, perhaps weighs more than I did at my peak, and is diabetic. He's been very supportive of my weigh loss. I'd like to pull him aside and attempt to persuade him to lose weight. I want to tell him that if I can make progress, he can. I want to help him, providing advice and encouragement. I want to have a conversation with him and save his life.

I've had such conversations myself in the past, but on the receiving side. I recall once at North Penn Chess Club, Fritz stopped skittling with me and strongly urged me to lose weight. "I'd like to be playing chess with you 20 years from now. I'm not sure that'll happen if you don't do something." Unfortunately, in the short term Fritz's gambit was not successful. And I don't know if my own gambit described above will be either. Should I make a move, or not?

From asd, October 2006:

Yesterday I was at a party. My friend was also there. I attended the party partly with the idea of initiating the conversation I've described above. I was more than a little nervous about broaching the subject. Fortunately, my friend sought me out and brought the topic up himself! My weight loss spoke louder than any words I could have chosen.

We had the "conversation" for a few minutes. He's been living the life of a fat person in denial, but I think the penny is finally dropping in the slot. I'll probably place a call later today to follow up and discuss starting a healthy way of eating and exercise routine.

Today:

He's done nothing since then except gain weight. So much for 'inspiration.'

***********

You can stage an intervention, talk all you want, and even do more - I've twice offered to help folks with gym memberships - but ultimately the "light bulb must want to be changed." Still, if you are a friend, I think it's worth the effort to speak to them.

I have a friend, much younger and severely obese. I have approached her numerous times about doing something for herself, but at this point she just has not reach rock bottom and just will not help herself. I thought using my experience in my weight loss might change her mind or motivate her to get off the pot as they say, but no dice. She is just not ready to do something to correct it. It does not help that her husband is basically an enabler of her condition and I have not been able to get him on board either.

It's a tough situation but I still talk to her at least once a week to do something, walk, swim, something. That is basically all I can do, talk to her an try to get her to help herself.

Good luck.

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, Brian. Enablers are everywhere these days - fat people are helpless, you know.

Hear! Hear! I worked on this with someone very close to me. When they finally made the decision to change, they did it on their own. They always knew that they needed to; the prodding from me didn't really make much of a difference. The best thing you can do is offer your assistance when they are ready to make the change.

But the prodding lodged in their brain. They probably remembered it, Dan. I still remember the conversations I had with people about my weight. Not all of them, of course. A co-worker recently reminded me that when we first met I was wishing that someone "would invent a pill to cure obesity." "You found your pill - diet and exercise" he told me.

All in all it sounds like your friend has just given up on life-- physically, mentally, emotionally, and is not trying to do anything for himself...

Bingo. Gobot gets the prize for describing the mindset of morbid obesity.

And you know some people hate physical stuff. My sister has a weight problem but I can't get her out to exercise. She just hates the whole process.

I was like that. Perhaps I had more reason than most to dislike exercise, since I have structural problems that make many physical activities painful, but the 'rush' created by exercise is far greater than any I can get from overeating. Once I got over the 'break in' period, about a month in my case, I was hooked.

It's my understanding many women dislike exercise because:

- they have been reared to believe that sweat is unfeminine;

- and that exercise will give them big muscles.

You might want to address these concerns with her, if she has them.

I don't believe women avoid exercise for those reasons. Maybe back in the early part of the century but not now. Since the 50's women have been taught that exercise is healthy and it can only make you look better.

Has anyone seen the two shows "Big Medicine" and "Brookhaven Hospital"? Brookhaven treats the severely morbidly obese - I mean really fat people. The show showcase this one young man who weighed 700 lbs. He could no lomnger do anything for himself. He could not move off his bed and had to have people do everything for him - even wash his privates parts (that alone would stop me from getting that big!). He knew he was dying because of his weigh and yet that would not stop him from eating. It is a disease, not unlike alcohol and drug addiction. Not making excuses just stating facts. Again, thank the good Lord, I like exercise or I might be one of those people!

As to the "enabler" - there are many strange relationships out there. I know a few men who like having a "helpless" mate with the addled understanding they would be less likely to abandoned them. Marrying a fat wife and keeping her fat is one way of guaranteeing the mate will never leave. How else do these men and women get to be 800 lbs? If they didn't have a mate (or parent) that kept shoveling food in their mouth, they would never get that big.

Bottom line, be a friend and counsel her if she is interested but you can't make her do anything. She has to want to change. We all have that issue. It's sad her life is so, but look at this way - she has a husband who cares for her. Mayb she is happy. What more can you ask?

BCIpam

It's not a disease. It's a habit. Every time I hear someone talk about something like this being a disease it bothers me. AIDS is a disease. Eating too much is not. The word "disease" has all but lost its meaning as of late. People are saying smoking addiction is a Disease.

You want to know why doctors and such are calling things disease? Because, anything intended to cure or treat a disease is considered a drug, and therefore has to be developed, marketed and sold as such. It also means MILLIONS of dollars to the FDA and pharmaceuticals companies. By making everything a disease, it creates a larger market for drugs.

Moving your arm to get the food, grabbing food, moving the arm to your mouth, chewing, and swallowing are not symptoms of a disease. They are habitual actions. I know 2 people in my life who went from not being able to drive because of their size (500lbs +) and needing special-order extra wide wheelchairs and actually modifications to their homes to make the doors wider --- to around 200 (one is like 210 now, the other is 190ish). They spent years being told they had a disease. Well, since it was a disease, why try to fix it, right? Its not your fault. Its the disease. They finally were woken up in their own ways to the fact that the disease crap is just that.

If you stop shoving crap down your throat, and maybe even move around a little if at all physically possible, you will lose weight. period.

...I can still catch myself thinking: "Why would I want to be like all of the bullies? I am fine as I am." Again, this is illogical as all get out, but I am sitting here shaking with the emotional response. ...
TD

Thanks for sharing that very personal story. I've been talking lately with a good friend from high school, who is also overweight, and we felt something similar to what you said. Not that we were bullied... but you know how high school cliques are. Why would we want to be athletic? We were much happier hanging out with the band and drama geeks. :) Which was fun, but led to nurturing only our heads and not our bodies. So as we got older, the pounds piled on... and discovering a type of exercise that I actually like has been a major shift in self-identity. It's very positive, but very hard.

I very nearly did not post this. This is the most personal thing I could share here and I realize that google will pick it up at some point. I decided to go ahead and do it, because I can not be the only one in the same boat.
(Tom or other moderator, is it possible to remove my userid from the header of this message? If so, I just don't want google picking it up.)

How many of us are carrying around "ghosts" from our childhood?
I know I do! I was overweight until I was a junior in high school and then piled on the pounds in college.

The number one thing I remember from my school life is being teased, chased, and sometimes beaten by small gangs of healthy kids who thought it was their duty to harass the fat kid. The worst part is that no grown up stopped it or believed me enough to help so: I bought it! Deep down, I still feel that I deserved it. Intellectually as historian would say, this is balderdash, but for me it is huge.

I can still catch myself thinking: "Why would I want to be like all of the bullies? I am fine as I am." Again, this is illogical as all get out, but I am sitting here shaking with the emotional response.

In short, I recommend counseling! We all pretty much aspire to be healthier, and it is possible, but ask yourself why don't more of us do it? And why does it take so long? For me, I can not YET commit to a life change of diet and exercise. I did 36 miles (some very hilly) in the last 3 days plus some kayaking, and love it, but it is still "not me."

Sorry for the long post, keep riding,


It's not balderdash at all. That's often how fat people think. I had the same sorts of experiences you did as a child. Add in an untreated physical problem and a stutter to my obesity, and you can imagine what my childhood was like. Probably like yours.

It's taken me a long time to begin to work through those "old tapes" that keep replaying in my head. Not only the tapes themselves, but my reactions to them. I haven't been 385 pounds since January 2006, and I still find myself looking in the mirror wondering who that dork is looking back at me. You'd think I'd realize I'm not fatso anymore. And I still find myself thinking I'm going to be rejected by people because I'm fat, even though I'm not and the people who like me like me regardless of what I look like. Building up trust is very difficult for me, because I always expect folks to turn on me the way the local kids did to the neighborhood "fat cripple." In fact, I shared something with a friend this weekend, and found myself saying "I guess you are going to hate me now." "Not unless you want me to" was his reply.

I wish both of us success in weight loss and in burning those old tapes. PM me if you'd like to talk more.

BCIpam

It's not a disease. It's a habit.

I've always agreed with that. Here is the dictionary definition of disease. I'm not sure if obesity would fall under this definition or not.

dis·ease
Pronunciation noun, verb, -eased, -eas·ing.
–noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
–verb (used with object) 5. to affect with disease; make ill.
5. to affect with disease; make ill.

Caincando1 ...

Of all of those, #3 could apply, but at the same time its so general you can say that our use of oil in america is a disease...so its not really the same thing...

Wow. Thank you all for sharing your own stories and offering your opinions. I've read them all, and they are very much appreciated.

This person does have a pool (go figure) so that might be a good starting place. I think a bike would be too much, too quick. There are a number of others are equally close to this person, and share similar feelings. Perhaps we should all get together and express our concern as one voice.

What's interesting, is that this person isn't really an overeater. You'd be surprised. I think it's mainly just inactivity and some bad habits that are contributing. This person does not work, so a volunteering job is a neat idea- although they are very involved in some community interests.

I agree that the person needs to WANT to help themselves before they can make real changes, but I've been waiting for that to happen for a long time. It hasn't, and my concern has grown and grown. Maybe this is selfish to say, but I would feel horrible if God forbid something happened and I hadn't done everything I possibly could to help.

Do you think maybe a discussion w/ close loved ones would help? Would this be the right time to ask about/sugget seeing a doctor?

Lastly, as I think about how this would go down, I can't help but imagine how embarrassing it would be to be approached by 3 close people at once about this sensitive issue. I REALLY don't want to hurt this person. Do you think this is the right approach? The less embarrassing approach would be a 1-on-1 conversation. I suppose some embarrassment is acceptable collateral damage if the intended effect is seen though...

Thanks again everybody. It's very sweet of all of you to take time to reply.

Don't worry about the embarrassment part.

At my weight right now, I'm embarrassed when I walk outside to let the dogs out in the morning without a shirt on and the neighbor comes out. That embarrassment is part of my drive to do better.

Compare the short term embarrassment that MAY happen, to the embarrassment said person will feel for the rest of their life if they continue down the road they are on.

The first time my doctor told me I needed to lose weight, I cried and cried... not because I didn't know, but because I was in such deep denial - I couldn't even discuss the issue. Doesn't mean it doesn't need to be brought up.

I think the family doctor is the right place to start, but I already said that.

It took someone in my family almost dying of a heart attack - who isn't much older than me - to get me on the bike seriously.

A lot of it is also finding the right kind of exercise. Biking isn't a rush for a lot of people. Eating right has to be a lifestyle choice. As my doctor told me, diets don't work. (He uses them as needed, grudgingly.)

Losing confidence can make all this a lot harder. The OP should work on boosting the friend's confidence in other areas, if the relationship permits that. Having the confidence that you'll stick with the program makes it easier to make good choices. And when you fall off the wagon (not if, unless you have superhuman willpower), you need the confidence to think, "that was a nice side trip. Now back to healthy choices."

The whole fat pride thing is IMHO ridiculous and damaging. But it makes the point well that if a heavy person has no willpower to resist food, they are indeed helpless to stop eating. As Malcolm Gladwell once wrote, human beings are not designed to resist times of plenty. But one is not helpless to develop willpower.

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, Brian. Enablers are everywhere these days - fat people are helpless, you know.

Don't I know it.

It took someone in my family almost dying of a heart attack - who isn't much older than me - to get me on the bike seriously.

A lot of it is also finding the right kind of exercise. Biking isn't a rush for a lot of people. Eating right has to be a lifestyle choice. As my doctor told me, diets don't work. (He uses them as needed, grudgingly.)

Losing confidence can make all this a lot harder. The OP should work on boosting the friend's confidence in other areas, if the relationship permits that. Having the confidence that you'll stick with the program makes it easier to make good choices. And when you fall off the wagon (not if, unless you have superhuman willpower), you need the confidence to think, "that was a nice side trip. Now back to healthy choices."

The whole fat pride thing is IMHO ridiculous and damaging. But it makes the point well that if a heavy person has no willpower to resist food, they are indeed helpless to stop eating. As Malcolm Gladwell once wrote, human beings are not designed to resist times of plenty. But one is not helpless to develop willpower.

It took me being hospitalized on suspicion of a heart attack to get me to make changes. I was lucky. It wasn't one.

As for falling off the wagon, unlike before, this time I knew I could get back on it again.

Don't I know it.

Yeah, me too. Let's down a couple of pizzas while we whine about it. :)

Actually, I strongly disagree with you.

Compulsive/Addictive behaviors are a disease mechanism, as defined in the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistic Manual-V4), which is the benchmark publication for diagnosing various disorders for a Psychologist. Chronic obesity is often (Not always) a result of the same mechanism that drives other eating disorders like Anorexia or Bulimia, just the other end of the Bell curve. It can be guilt driven, where food is used as a drug, for example....eating to feel better, then feeling guilty about eating, so a little snack to feel better and so on....a vicious cycle. It may be the only thing they have control over in their life, for example. I'm certainly not saying it's a rational behavior, and better than half of a psychologists job is in the cognitive-behavioral area in teaching new coping skills and helping their clients eliminate maladaptive and destructive behaviors.

Addiction IS a disease mechanism and a medical issue, by the way with demonstrated brain chemical imbalances and self medication being one of the driving forces behind it. If you treat the addiction as a medical issue, among other things, it allows those who want to do something about it to get coverage under their medical plans. Remove the disease status and lose the protected coverage status where health insurance carriers have to provide at least minimal coverage for it. Is that something you'd advocate? BCIpam

It's not a disease. It's a habit. Every time I hear someone talk about something like this being a disease it bothers me. AIDS is a disease. Eating too much is not. The word "disease" has all but lost its meaning as of late. People are saying smoking addiction is a Disease.

You want to know why doctors and such are calling things disease? Because, anything intended to cure or treat a disease is considered a drug, and therefore has to be developed, marketed and sold as such. It also means MILLIONS of dollars to the FDA and pharmaceuticals companies. By making everything a disease, it creates a larger market for drugs.

Moving your arm to get the food, grabbing food, moving the arm to your mouth, chewing, and swallowing are not symptoms of a disease. They are habitual actions. I know 2 people in my life who went from not being able to drive because of their size (500lbs +) and needing special-order extra wide wheelchairs and actually modifications to their homes to make the doors wider --- to around 200 (one is like 210 now, the other is 190ish). They spent years being told they had a disease. Well, since it was a disease, why try to fix it, right? Its not your fault. Its the disease. They finally were woken up in their own ways to the fact that the disease crap is just that.

If you stop shoving crap down your throat, and maybe even move around a little if at all physically possible, you will lose weight. period.

Yeah, me too. Let's down a couple of pizzas while we whine about it. :)

So many people are just amazed that my big butt can ride a bike for 80 miles, yet their skinny butt can't ride for 2 miles. I actually had a woman that works with me tell me that my body just isn't in shape enough to do that kind of exercise, I should lose more weight first and I should just walk and work up some endurance. :eek: She then went on to tell me that my knee injury was probably caused more by the weight I carry than anything else. I said "Yea Doc, your right, that whole slipping and having my knee concave on itself was not the real reason I had to have surgery. I guess I should have gone to see you first versus the highly qualified sports orthopedist." I then mentioned that my weight loss did not occur by diet alone. She just a peach. :D

Now, the whole "Fat Pride" thing, that's a classic example of enablement as well as an Emotional/Behavioral/Perceptual disorder. I agree 100% that it's dangerous to their health and feel it's an indicator of maladaptive, passive-aggressive behaviors. In my opinion, this is a very good example of where cognitive-behavioral therapy could do some serious good. It's a rebellion against society's treatment of fat people at it's core though. Most of these people have been traumatized by this as well as the discrimination against obese individuals sufficiently that they deny the health risks to make their political point.

The horrible thing is, that in it's most extreme form, these people can't even really be referred to as organ donor wannabes because their internal organs are so stressed that they can't be used. It's a shame, really, but it's the truth, and their embracing an irrational and self destructive behavior is not an indicator of emotional health and stability. I'm not talking about the people that are OK with being 20-30 pounds overweight, I'm referring to the ones that are dangerously or morbidly obese and not even trying to address the issue.It took someone in my family almost dying of a heart attack - who isn't much older than me - to get me on the bike seriously.

A lot of it is also finding the right kind of exercise. Biking isn't a rush for a lot of people. Eating right has to be a lifestyle choice. As my doctor told me, diets don't work. (He uses them as needed, grudgingly.)

Losing confidence can make all this a lot harder. The OP should work on boosting the friend's confidence in other areas, if the relationship permits that. Having the confidence that you'll stick with the program makes it easier to make good choices. And when you fall off the wagon (not if, unless you have superhuman willpower), you need the confidence to think, "that was a nice side trip. Now back to healthy choices."

The whole fat pride thing is IMHO ridiculous and damaging. But it makes the point well that if a heavy person has no willpower to resist food, they are indeed helpless to stop eating. As Malcolm Gladwell once wrote, human beings are not designed to resist times of plenty. But one is not helpless to develop willpower.

Yea I hear ya, but she is just depressed about her weight and situation and uses food to try to escape it, it just a bad circle. I wish I could just get her husband to stop being the enabler, that is my biggest battle. He refuses to do anything that will help her, force the issue, nothing. He does not make her do things on her own, he does everything for her. I am just afraid that she is going to drop dead before she turns 50 and at the pace she is going, it will happen. She is such a loving caring person and the world would just be a much sadder place if she was not in it.


It sounds like the husband is afraid that if she is self-sufficient or attractive she will leave him... He's probably right.

Stab that jerk in the face and save the princess!

For RJM: I have to diagree with some of what you say... compulsive overeating is a disease. BUT and a big but here, doesn't mean the compulsive cannot be addressed and dealt with. Yes I agree that after time, overeating becomes habit, a bad one at that, and the habits and compulsive can be addessed through counseling, support, motivation (like you are going to sie tomorrow if you keep eating).

I own up to my overeating and bad habits. I am FAT. I've said it. I'm not "fluffy" or "big boned" none of that I am FAT. I eat too much of the wrong stuff. I don't exercise enough to burn off the calories I take in. I don't do enough to address the issue that make me overeat. I am responsible for the state I am in, me alone.

That said, I think it's very unfair for some people to say losing weight is easy - you just need to stop eating. OK fine, sure. It's not that easy. Just like trying to stay away from achohol or drugs is not that easy, but yes it can be done. I've all my life had to work on the compulsion. Everyday is a struggle, a challenge; difficult.

OK sorry for getting on this soapbox. There are only a couple of things in life that upset me - and a skinny (or fat) person saying "just don't eat, it's that simple" is one of them.

If you'd like to hear about my other "rants" just like me know... or not! :rolleyes:

Do you think maybe a discussion w/ close loved ones would help? Would this be the right time to ask about/sugget seeing a doctor?

Lastly, as I think about how this would go down, I can't help but imagine how embarrassing it would be to be approached by 3 close people at once about this sensitive issue. I REALLY don't want to hurt this person. Do you think this is the right approach? The less embarrassing approach would be a 1-on-1 conversation. I suppose some embarrassment is acceptable collateral damage if the intended effect is seen though...

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And Bob - there in lies the rub... I don't believe you should approach her. It is embarassing, it is disheartening, and it is humiliating. And who are you to judge her and how she looks?

Now if she comes to you and says something, totally different situation. Take the oar and offer to help.

Again it's just like dealing with an alcoholic. Who here believes interventions work? Unless someone has it it their mind to change, they will resist.

If an intervention gets someone into a good rehab clinic I think it can work.

Even getting into a good rehab center doesn't mean the person will turn it around and get sober (trust me on this - I have alcoholics and drug abusers in my family and we have tried everything!). Look at the women in the news lately. All have been in good and expensive rehab centers but none are interested (apparently) of cleaning up their act. All the good help in the world means nothing unless one is motivated to change.

If not for how society views fat people and the fact I am unhappy with my body, I would not be motivated to change a thing; I like eating. But I don't like the perception people have of me because I am fat. They view me as lazy, incapable and slovenly. I am none of those things but society doesn't care because superficial appearance is everything.

That being said, it's amazing how as long as a woman is young, skinny and attractive, she is indulged. Britney, Lindsay, Tara et al, have all done things much worse than my overeating, but their behavior is tolerated, fat people's overeating is not. Just stating a fact.