Bicycle Mechanics - Removing tubular tire

I am new to tubular tires and I am having a heck of a time with my first experience of removing a tire from the rim. Any secrets here? The tire is still good, so I don't want to use any solvents or anything that might harm the casing. I used Mastik glue.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

I am new to tubular tires and I am having a heck of a time with my first experience of removing a tire from the rim. Any secrets here? The tire is still good, so I don't want to use any solvents or anything that might harm the casing. I used Mastik glue.


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| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
| --BOB Simon |
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Get a tire lever under there somewhere (the thin flat steel ones work best) and then you can work it around the rim. Pulling too hard on the tire could separate the base tape.

Remember this when you glue the next one on.

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| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
| --BOB Simon |
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Ha! OK - I'll go at it some more.

Thanks for the advice. I feel quite honored to get such a quick reply to my question from Sheldon Brown!

Remember this when you glue the next one on.

Thanks for the tip. I certainly want to err on the side of the tire being hard to remove rather than rolling in a corner.

Thanks for the tip. I certainly want to err on the side of the tire being hard to remove rather than rolling in a corner.

My point was, most tubie nubies worry so much about rolling a tire that they overdo the glue and make it near impossible to get off. You can safely cut back.

- "When in doubt, use a bigger hammer" -

You should be able to roll it off after deflating the tire. Try harder, work your way around the rim and be careful where you place your thumb so you don't roll the tire off the base tape or damage that bond. I would hesitate to use tire levers though, only as a last resort.

- "When in doubt, use a bigger hammer" -

You should be able to roll it off after deflating the tire. Try harder, work your way around the rim and be careful where you place your thumb so you don't roll the tire off the base tape or damage that bond. I would hesitate to use tire levers though, only as a last resort.

No! It should be so stuck that after you deflate it, it should be fairly hard to take off the rim.

You should use enough glue that a little bead of glue comes out from between the tire and the rim.

My point was, most tubie nubies worry so much about rolling a tire that they overdo the glue and make it near impossible to get off. You can safely cut back.
Yeah, I really disagree with that too. Ther's no such thing as a tubular that's stuck on too well, unless maybe it's purely for training and the rider isn't ever going to be cornering hard.

IMO, a properly glued tubular almost requires judicious application of levers or a screwdriver to remove. Props to the OP for gluing it on right!

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It was my first gluing on new rims, so I followed the 3-layer, 3-day procedure on Park Tool.com. I'm glad to see that it was done right, or even a little overdone. It is hard to tell the first time. I'm going to go to work on it this evening with tire levers if I need it, I'm sure I'll get it off. In this case, the tire is still almost new, but the rim is trashed, so I won't worry about hurting the rim.

No! It should be so stuck that after you deflate it, it should be fairly hard to take off the rim.

You should use enough glue that a little bead of glue comes out from between the tire and the rim.


I agree with all that San Rensho says, but read carefully. The OP has glued the tire correctly, he's having difficulty removing it. He needs to try harder to remove the tire by hand before resorting to using a tire lever to pry it off. Yes, it should be so stuck that "it should be fairly hard to take off the rim". It's his first time removing a glued on tubular and it's a technique he is unfamiliar with.

It's not a matter of damaging the rim, it's damaging the tire. Tubular tire glue remains somewhat pliable and it's the adhesion of the glue and tire pressure that keeps the tire on. If you do it a few more times, you learn the the technique, the amount and application of hand force, that it takes to roll the deflated tire off. Using a tire lever should not be the first resort but the last resort.

I agree with all that San Rensho says, but read carefully. The OP has glued the tire correctly, he's having difficulty removing it. He needs to try harder to remove the tire by hand before resorting to using a tire lever to pry it off. Yes, it should be so stuck that "it should be fairly hard to take off the rim". It's his first time removing a glued on tubular and it's a technique he is unfamiliar with.

It's not a matter of damaging the rim, it's damaging the tire. Tubular tire glue remains somewhat pliable and it's the adhesion of the glue and tire pressure that keeps the tire on. If you do it a few more times, you learn the the technique, the amount and application of hand force, that it takes to roll the deflated tire off. Using a tire lever should not be the first resort but the last resort.

A properly glued tire shouldn't require a tire lever to get it off, true. A tire that's glued on too well might require a tire lever to get it off - if that's the case, he can safely cut back some on the glue! There is such a thing as being glued on too well.

But using a tire lever to get the tire off will not harm the tire or the rim; you just use it to work around the rim and break the bond, you don't actually pry the tire off.

Yeah, I really disagree with that too. Ther's no such thing as a tubular that's stuck on too well
Actually, it is possible to use so much glue (too thick) that the tire will not actually adhere to the rim. Instead, a soft, flexible cushion of glue will separate the tire from the rim. Of course, you will feel the cushy ride and the terrible flex in corners before anything catastrophic can happen, but I was told that the tire could actually come off if ignored and cornered too hard.

My goal is to use a tubular on the same rim until it's gone, then I can use a screwdriver to remove it and toss it. Otherwise, a lot of finesse and manpower are required.

Actually, it is possible to use so much glue (too thick) that the tire will not actually adhere to the rim. Instead, a soft, flexible cushion of glue will separate the tire from the rim. Of course, you will feel the cushy ride and the terrible flex in corners before anything catastrophic can happen, but I was told that the tire could actually come off if ignored and cornered too hard.

Absolutely -- but that doesn't seem to be the problem the OP is writing about, and more to the point, my observations are in regards to the "A properly glued tire shouldn't require a tire lever to get it off, true. A tire that's glued on too well might require a tire lever to get it off - if that's the case, he can safely cut back some on the glue! There is such a thing as being glued on too well." opinions. The idea that one should reduce the amount of glue in order to reduce the amount of adhesion horrifies me.

The idea that one should reduce the amount of glue in order to reduce the amount of adhesion horrifies me.

Horrifies you? If the adhesion is so strong that he literally can't get the tire off with all his might, then he's got a factor of safety of about 10 when he only needs about 2...

maybe 4 if he's racing crits in Texas in August at noon.

If the adhesion is so strong that he literally can't get the tire off with all his might, then he's got a factor of safety of about 10 when he only needs about 2...

maybe 4 if he's racing crits in Texas in August at noon.

Do you know this for a fact? Have you conducted instrumented and repeatable tests? And do you really want to experience the result of being wrong on this one?

And the flip side is that reducing the amount of glue in order to reduce the amount of adhesion is a dangerous and extremely inexact game. How much does he reduce it by? How does he know when he's reduced it enough but not too much? And is the trade-off of easier removal really worth the gamble with his -- and your, if you're ever behind him -- hide?

No thanks. I'll pass on the whole affair. My tires were always glued on to the best of my ability, and that's the way I liked it. It's really not difficult to remove a tire with a round-shaft screwdriver without damaging anything, and in fact, back in the day of shellac for track riding, the screwdriver was the accepted method so as to preserve the carefully built-up rim bed.

Do you know this for a fact? Have you conducted instrumented and repeatable tests? And do you really want to experience the result of being wrong on this one?

Get serious please.

A tire that is hard but not impossible to get off with bare hands and brute force is glued on well enough that it's completely safe. That's a decent gage for how good of a job you did and I'd confidently ride behind anyone whose tires met that criteria. Anything stronger than that doesn't offer any extra safety.

I posit that ~100% of rolled tires were caused by either crappy glue jobs to begin with, bad base tape, melted glue from hot roads and/or braking heat, old dried up glue, or wheel damage.

Get serious please.
I am serious. If you haven't conducted repeatable tests then you're just guessing, with your "safety factors". This situation is a bad place for guessing. And it doesn't get much more "serious" than riding behind someone who has reduced the amount of glue he uses in an effort to get less adhesion.

Absolutely -- but that doesn't seem to be the problem the OP is writing about, and more to the point, my observations are in regards to the "A properly glued tire shouldn't require a tire lever to get it off, true. A tire that's glued on too well might require a tire lever to get it off - if that's the case, he can safely cut back some on the glue! There is such a thing as being glued on too well." opinions. The idea that one should reduce the amount of glue in order to reduce the amount of adhesion horrifies me.
Yes I agree with you there. It takes a full tube of glue to get the result I was talking about and it's hard to make that mistake without making a huge mess from the oozing glue.

But I will say that the most people do overglue their tires at least a little (to be on the safe side, as you said). Most racers I knew put one small (like the size of a pea) bead of glue in between each spoke hole (24-36h rims) and that held plenty tight. I have yet to see one of those come off during a race (mostly crits and velodrome). I will admit that even though they got away with less, I always erred on the safe side myself as well.

I am serious. If you haven't conducted repeatable tests then you're just guessing, with your "safety factors". This situation is a bad place for guessing. And it doesn't get much more "serious" than riding behind someone who has reduced the amount of glue he uses in an effort to get less adhesion.

My factor of safety numbers were just guesses, yes - no one is going to actually use them in an engineering calc, no one reading this assumed I had done any pull testing.

My only claim is that "damn hard to get off" is plenty secure and the indicator of a good job. Yours appears to be "Nothing is good enough if it can be made stronger", and you ignore the consequences of too much glue strength (damaged tires, damaged thumbs, frustration, waste of time).

Sorry if I appear to be bickering, I'm really quite agreeable. :)

My only claim is that "damn hard to get off" is plenty secure and the indicator of a good job.
Me too. We just seem to disagree on the definition of "Damn hard to get off". IMO, that puts us into screwdriver territory. Maybe I just have weak thumbs.



Yours appears to be "Nothing is good enough if it can be made stronger", and you ignore the consequences of too much glue strength (damaged tires, damaged thumbs, frustration, waste of time).


Well, you're pretty much right with the first line. If I ever see a glue that works so well that tires can't be removed without shredding the tire or denting the rim, then I'll rethink my stance. But so far, I have never met a tire that couldn't be removed, undamaged, with judicious use of a round shaft screwdriver.

I do, however, still have the scars from having ridden behind someone who didn't have to put any effort at all into removing his tires. So I guess you can say I'm conservative on the matter. :)

BTW, my approach to modulating tire adhesion is to use different glues, rather than different amounts. Dunlop white for training in freezing conditions, Panacement for training in the summer, Vittoria Mastik 1 for racing. This results in predictable, repeatable performance without having to wonder if maybe I didn't quite use enough this time.

I guess I use too much glue; but then I don't normally take tubulars off unless they need to be repaired/permanently replaced. I was always told that one needed to glue around the spoke holes to insure against roll off. I only use tubies for cyclocross racing so I usually just wait for the glue (panacement) to degrade and then the tire comes off easily.
Doesn't "track" mastic cure absolutely hard and hold the tires on like a vice? Wouldn't that be the ideal cement for racing since you won't be changing a tubular tire during a race (you'd just get another wheel or drop out). Or does it degrade and break loose when the rim's heated through braking?

A team member once told me to "not use too much glue" on his tubular. I laughed and said if you want me to do it I'm doing it my way which means it ain't coming off when you flat or hit a hard turn or you ride in the rain all day. Anyway, I do it my way and thats another story. As far as the best removal tool I have ever found is that wide plastic hub adjusting tool that comes with (I guess it still comes with them) Mavic wheels. I have about a 100 of these floating around. A Mavic dude once told me that they were for just that- tubulars (plus they adjust those hubs ok too). They are thin enough to get between a tight fit tub/rim and wont hurt the tub or rim either. You should be able to pick a few up at any good LBS. And for the record I only use Vittoria Mastik-One (1st choice) or Continental (2nd choice). And no offese but 3M is for posers.

Doesn't "track" mastic cure absolutely hard and hold the tires on like a vice? Wouldn't that be the ideal cement for racing since you won't be changing a tubular tire during a race (you'd just get another wheel or drop out). Or does it degrade and break loose when the rim's heated through braking?
I'm only aware of one track glue, and it came out after I stopped racing so I've never used it. The track standard for the longest time -- and maybe still, in Europe -- was shellac, which works very, very well but is a bit time consuming and takes some special knowledge. It sticks extraordinarily well and is supposed to have the lowest rolling resistance of any glue, as it dries to a thin and very firm base.

As mentioned above, Vittoria Mastik 1 has a tremendous and well-deserved, IMO, reputation. It is easy to work with and holds like the dickens. It was the hands-down winner of a fairly thorough test of a number of different glues a few years back.

Urbanknight :
Actually, it is possible to use so much glue (too thick) that the tire will not actually adhere to the rim. Instead, a soft, flexible cushion of glue will separate the tire from the rim.

I agree with that and also with what Diabloscott says about cutting back on the glue.

Try this using rubber cement for gluing paper : glue two sheets with a thin, even coat and two with a thick coat. You will find that the thinly coated sheets hold better. It's just like Urbanknight says - a thick coat ends up as a flexible cushion.

Since there are differences of opinon, I've decided to go out to the garage and bolt my tubulars on. Should be a strong but easily removable mechanical joint, regardless of finger strength. Should I use Metric or or SAE bolts? :)

Should I use Metric or or SAE bolts? :)
Finally a question worth answering: If you live in the USA, SAE of course. If a different country, metric.

Thanks for the tip urbanknight. I'm not going to leave anything to chance, so I'll use 12 metric and 12 SAE on each tire. That way I'll be able to at least get half the tire off, wherever I am.

lol reminds me of the 1989 Ford Taurus I used to own. I went to change the battery and was amazed to find that one terminal had a metric nut holding it on while the other terminal had an ASE!

The wrench who put your Taurus together at the dealership must have been sniffing Tubasti!

wow, i can believe you guys jumping on diabloscott for saying you should cutback when you can't remove a tire. yes, a tire can be over glued! so if you play it safe, get a flat and can't remove the tire, you just walk home.

I have found that the critical place to glue a tire is the outer edges. I know there will be many out there that will say play it safe and put glue everywhere, but when I remove glued tire, its the glue on the edges that is hard to pull off, once it is stared, the glue in the middle comes right off.

and I don't want to spend an hour trying to pull off a tire on the road.

and I don't want to spend an hour trying to pull off a tire on the road.

That's why you have a set of training wheels and a set of racing wheels. The training wheels get a weaker glue. The racing wheels get the strongest stuff you can find.

Or you could just guess how much to reduce the amount by and then hope you guessed right. :rolleyes:

That's why you have a set of training wheels and a set of racing wheels. The training wheels get a weaker glue. The racing wheels get the strongest stuff you can find.

Or you could just guess how much to reduce the amount by and then hope you guessed right. :rolleyes:

No, you start out by being overly conservative as the OP rightly did, then you cut back little by little until you find how much gives the perfect bond. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You're both wrong. You train on clinchers and race on tubulars. DUH! :D

You're both wrong. You train on clinchers and race on tubulars. DUH! :D

Wrong, wrong! You are all wrong! You train on the bolted on tubulars and race on the glued on tubulars! Wait...is it faster to remove a bolt-on or a glued-on? :D :D

Apparently the bolt-on ones according to this thread. lol

wow, i can believe you guys jumping on diabloscott for saying you should cutback when you can't remove a tire. yes, a tire can be over glued! so if you play it safe, get a flat and can't remove the tire, you just walk home.

I have found that the critical place to glue a tire is the outer edges. I know there will be many out there that will say play it safe and put glue everywhere, but when I remove glued tire, its the glue on the edges that is hard to pull off, once it is stared, the glue in the middle comes right off.

and I don't want to spend an hour trying to pull off a tire on the road.

Its really easy to get a tire off that is stuck really good. Just slice across the tire with a knife, stick a finger in the hole and peel it off. This is what pro mechanics do, since they obviuosly are not going to patch a sew up, and they make sure their tires tires are stuck on good, so peeling them off is the easiest way to get them off the tire.

When I cut and peeled a tire and left the base tape on the rim, then I knew I glued the tire on properly. If it rolled, it was going to roll from separation between the base tape and the tire, something the manufacturer controls, and not from my glueing job failing.

There is no such thing as a sew up that is stuck too tight.

Again, use enough glue so that a very small bead of glue squeezes out between the tire and the rim. Its about a tube of glue.

I agree with all that San Rensho says, but read carefully. The OP has glued the tire correctly, he's having difficulty removing it. He needs to try harder to remove the tire by hand before resorting to using a tire lever to pry it off. Yes, it should be so stuck that "it should be fairly hard to take off the rim". It's his first time removing a glued on tubular and it's a technique he is unfamiliar with.

It's not a matter of damaging the rim, it's damaging the tire. Tubular tire glue remains somewhat pliable and it's the adhesion of the glue and tire pressure that keeps the tire on. If you do it a few more times, you learn the the technique, the amount and application of hand force, that it takes to roll the deflated tire off. Using a tire lever should not be the first resort but the last resort.

I am usually able to get a tire off by hand with significant effort. Sometimes I work a sharp knife under the base tape to sever bits of glue that are stretching. After several of these careful (watch your fingers and watch the tire!!!) undercuts, I can usually pull 6 inches free. Then the rest will come. Occasionally I lever with a screwdriver or tire lever, but usually that ends up tearing base tape. I haven't messed up any casings this way.

Lately I removed a Tufo, and it needed some levering. I don't know if it's damaged. It already had a leaky valve base, not sealed by the sealant. But teh Tufo seemed to fit a bit looser than many sewn tubulars, due I guess to less material build-up under teh air chamber.

Road Fan

I am serious. If you haven't conducted repeatable tests then you're just guessing, with your "safety factors". This situation is a bad place for guessing. And it doesn't get much more "serious" than riding behind someone who has reduced the amount of glue he uses in an effort to get less adhesion.

As someone who has (you mihgt say crazily) experienced a lot of "just riding around" on UNGLUED tubulars, I think glued tight is good enough.

I do not ride mountains.
I do not ride crits.
I do not specialize in 45 degree (1 g).
I do not ride in a velodrome.

I have never rolled a tire.
Occasionally I angle a stem. Then I know that tire needs glued.

Now I glue every time, using teh Zinn method or the Vittoria method, and my knife technique works reliably in removing a tubular.

Road Fan

That's why you have a set of training wheels and a set of racing wheels. The training wheels get a weaker glue. The racing wheels get the strongest stuff you can find.

Or you could just guess how much to reduce the amount by and then hope you guessed right. :rolleyes:

Which glue is teh weak one and which glue is the strong one?

Road Fan

Its really easy to get a tire off that is stuck really good. Just slice across the tire with a knife, stick a finger in the hole and peel it off. This is what pro mechanics do, since they obviuosly are not going to patch a sew up, and they make sure their tires tires are stuck on good, so peeling them off is the easiest way to get them off the tire.

When I cut and peeled a tire and left the base tape on the rim, then I knew I glued the tire on properly. If it rolled, it was going to roll from separation between the base tape and the tire, something the manufacturer controls, and not from my glueing job failing.

There is no such thing as a sew up that is stuck too tight.

Again, use enough glue so that a very small bead of glue squeezes out between the tire and the rim. Its about a tube of glue.

Despite wht your pro mechanics do, sew-ups (not Tufos) are repairable. If the outcome of the seemingly required heavy gluing you advocate is that if I ever have a flat I must waste a $30 to $70 tire, then I'll take some chances based on my years of road experience, and not glue so tightly.

I DO repair sew-ups. I NEED the ability to remove a tire and replace it. It fits my riding style. There IS such a thing as gluing too tight for my riding style.

Road Fan

Which glue is teh weak one and which glue is the strong one?


The weak one used to be Dunlop white. I kind of don't think this is made anymore, so usually use a single layer of Panacement on the rim. I would not corner hard on a tire so glued.

Vittoria Mastik 1 has been the race glue of choice since the fairly exhaustive VeloNews test of a few years back.

If the outcome of the seemingly required heavy gluing you advocate is that if I ever have a flat I must waste a $30 to $70 tire, then I'll take some chances based on my years of road experience, and not glue so tightly.

I DO repair sew-ups. I NEED the ability to remove a tire and replace it. It fits my riding style. There IS such a thing as gluing too tight for my riding style.


The argument is essentially about this POV...


A tire that's glued on too well might require a tire lever to get it off - if that's the case, he can safely cut back some on the glue! There is such a thing as being glued on too well.


vs this one...


Ther's no such thing as a tubular that's stuck on too well, unless maybe it's purely for training and the rider isn't ever going to be cornering hard.



The first opinion, presented as a blanket statement, is dangerously incorrect, IMO. When I'm on the track, or in a race, I want my tires stuck on as well as they can possibly be. Does that mean there's a chance that I will ruin the tire when I take it off? Yes -- but weighed against the chance of crashing because I guessed wrongly about how much to reduce adhesion, it seems like a pretty good trade-off to me.

Now, that doesn't mean that my training tires are glued that well, but I don't think that's ever been an issue. I'm not claiming that one way is the only right way, I'm simply pointing out that A) making blankets statements about how well some stranger's tires should be glued is a poor practice, and B) there are more reliable and repeatable ways of reducing adhesion than by guessing about how little glue to use. I'm frankly surprised that these things are even open for argument.

At any rate, if you don't ride mountains, tracks, or corners, then you can glue your tubulars any old way and get away with it. The fact that your method results in angled valve stems despite your sedate riding style should set off alarm bells all over the place, though.

It looks like I entered this party a little late but I have something to add. First, I started riding tubi's in the late 70's and still do (that makes me an EXPERT! LOL). I read somewhere of a trick a guy uses that I thought was very cleaver. On the part of the rim directly opposite the stem hole ( where the weld is ) he doesn't use any glue between those two spokes. It isn't large enough an area to cause the tire to roll and it is easy to find because it's always by the weld.... and it makes starting a tire removal easier! Good HUH? - O

actually, that's kind of clever. See? better late than never.
beer is good

When I'm on the track, or in a race, I want my tires stuck on as well as they can possibly be. Does that mean there's a chance that I will ruin the tire when I take it off? Yes -- but weighed against the chance of crashing because I guessed wrongly about how much to reduce adhesion, it seems like a pretty good trade-off to me.

Now, that doesn't mean that my training tires are glued that well, but I don't think that's ever been an issue. I'm not claiming that one way is the only right way, I'm simply pointing out that A) making blankets statements about how well some stranger's tires should be glued is a poor practice, and B) there are more reliable and repeatable ways of reducing adhesion than by guessing about how little glue to use. I'm frankly surprised that these things are even open for argument.

At any rate, if you don't ride mountains, tracks, or corners, then you can glue your tubulars any old way and get away with it. The fact that your method results in angled valve stems despite your sedate riding style should set off alarm bells all over the place, though.

How strong is strong enough? How light is light enough? At some level of tire bonding, the probability that something else (anything else) will cause you to crash becomes enormously larger than the probability of a tire rolling. Do you also require that your frame be as strong as possible? Of course not, strong enough is good enough and building a frame with additional strength would have some disadvantages like extra weight and provide no additional benefit.

My unverified but experienced position:
Nobody ever rolled a tire that would have met my standard of "damn strong but not too strong" gluing, unless it was from hot roads and braking heat (eg the Beloki incident). Any tire that ever rolled from a bad glue job could have been rolled off by hand at full pressure before the ride started... like in the pre-race safety check they used to do before every criterium.

None of which changes the fact that you are guessing about how much you are reducing your tire adhesion. To continue your frame analogy, this is like reducing the amount of brass you use in brazing your frame and then hoping you've guessed right. This can probably be gotten away with for decades, but I'll take the full measure of brass and glue just the same.

Any tire that ever rolled from a bad glue job could have been rolled off by hand at full pressure before the ride started... like in the pre-race safety check they used to do before every criterium.
FWIW, I've seen folks roll tires at "safety-checked" criteriums. I think that's part of the reason they stopped doing safety checks: nothing like a bleeding racer lying next to a failed bicycle -- safety check sticker fluttering in the breeze -- to make a race organizer look foolish. Not to mention liable.

How strong is strong enough? How light is light enough? At some level of tire bonding, the probability that something else (anything else) will cause you to crash becomes enormously larger than the probability of a tire rolling. Do you also require that your frame be as strong as possible? Of course not, strong enough is good enough and building a frame with additional strength would have some disadvantages like extra weight and provide no additional benefit.

My unverified but experienced position:
Nobody ever rolled a tire that would have met my standard of "damn strong but not too strong" gluing, unless it was from hot roads and braking heat (eg the Beloki incident). Any tire that ever rolled from a bad glue job could have been rolled off by hand at full pressure before the ride started... like in the pre-race safety check they used to do before every criterium.

Roll a tire once, and you will subscribe to the it can never be too stuck school of gluing sew ups. I rolled a tire during a race (luckily I was the only one that fell), not because of insufficient glue, but because of a cheap tire that wouldn't seat right.

From then on, I made damn sure the tire was good quality, so it would seat correctly, and that is was glued properly. I'm not going to take chances with crashing because of a rolled tire again.

A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. Lol.