Bicycle Mechanics - talc my take-along tube?

i've been riding a road bike for about a month (not straight through, obviously!). i've packed what i thought was an ok emergency kit, and had a tire-patch kit in there too. then i went on my first club/group ride last w/e, and two riders got flats along the way. made me think i'd better carry a tube as well. it's one thing to sit around waiting for glue to dry while you're by yourself, but when other people are waving goodbye to you in the distance, a tube might be wiser. the downside is that they take up a lot of room in my wedge. and wearing it around my neck might look funny.

i overheard one of the riders (on this aforementioned group ride) say he stored his emergency tube in a baggie after putting talc on it. is this wise and/or necessary? or can i just stuff it in my wedge and be off?

Putting talc on bike tubes falls in the old wives tales catagory.

Years ago, when car tires had separate tubes in them, the tubes were installed with talc to prevent the tire and tube from vulcanizing together due to the large amount of heat that can sometimes build up in car tires. Bike tires, in normal use never get anywhere near that hot, so no talc is necessary.

Some still advise the use of talc to make installation of a tube easier, but tube installation is easy to learn and done correctly needs no talc lubrication. Besides, it makes the hands a mess.

Dave

thanks! i'll keep the baby powder where it belongs then. i'm somewhat disappointed to have to unzip the expansion zipper in my wedge to accomodate the tube. now it looks like i have a suitcase tied to my a**. but it'll be safer.

I agree with Hayneda however it may make the tube
easier to handle after prolonged storage in a seat bag.
I have seen non talc'd tubes stick to themselves when
taking them out of a seat tube.
Other than that I don't see any reason to talc your tires.
(although it does make repairing a tubular a bit easier
on the road).

Marty

I always talc my tubes and also the inside of my tires, that is, when I can't get my old wife to do it for me. :D

But seriously-a new patch needs talc so it doesn't stick to the inside of the tire.

Park make inner tube patches that are self-adhesive. They come in a tiny little pack of 6 (about the size of a postage stamp) with some sandpaper. I use them on my MTB at 60 psi (and recently on my bro's road bike at 110 psi). They work fine - although I'm not sure I expect them to last as long as 'proper' patches.

No talc or glue needed.

Laters,

Team

Originally posted by Louis
But seriously-a new patch needs talc so it doesn't stick to the inside of the tire.

er..how likely is a patch to stick to the inside of the tire? the glue is supposed to be completely dry before you put on the patch anyway, so what's going to stick to the tire? and isn't the road going to keep things unstuck, just from all the jostling? i haven't had enough experience to know myself.

if that's true about putting talc on a patch, that sounds like an argument for bringing along a little bag of talc. rather than talcing the take-along tube, or the current tubes and tires. because you'd want the area to be talc-free before applying the patch. no?

Originally posted by hayneda
Putting talc on bike tubes falls in the old wives tales catagory.

Years ago, when car tires had separate tubes in them, the tubes were installed with talc to prevent the tire and tube from vulcanizing together due to the large amount of heat that can sometimes build up in car tires. Bike tires, in normal use never get anywhere near that hot, so no talc is necessary.

Some still advise the use of talc to make installation of a tube easier, but tube installation is easy to learn and done correctly needs no talc lubrication. Besides, it makes the hands a mess.

Dave

No no no no no no no no no no no no ...........

Originally posted by KleinMp99
No no no no no no no no no no no no ...........

is that "no no [etc]" don't use talc, or use talc?

I just unboxed a new Michelin tube, and there is a powdery substance all over it. It may not be talc, but they do put something on the tubes to prevent them from sticking.

Frankly I don't see the controversy over 'to talc, or not to talc'. Putting talcum powder on a tube makes storage easier and makes field insertion of a new tube easier. I always talc my tubes before they go in my seat pack, and when installing in tires at home.

Talc on the inside of the tube to stop sticking. It's done at manufacture, if at all. Don't worry about the outside. The release agent used in the mould to make the tube is still there... that's why you have to scrape it off before applying the cement then the patch, otherwise the release agent does its job again on the patch cement, and you've got to start all over again.

It's generally the reason instant patches don't always work -- you've still got to get rid of the release agent before applying them.

I've had cement on tubes stick to the inside of the tyre. So what? They're simple to pull apart. Having talc about the place is just another mess to deal with.

A spare tube is very handy. If you have 20-23C tyres, the lightweight tubes fold down into a very, very compact size (you do have to squeeze all the air out though). I can fit two in a very small seat wedge, as well as a multi-tool kit, patches, and tyre levers.

Replacing a tube is much, much easier than trying to fix a hole on the spot. And with the tiny wires in treads that blow off truck tyres these days, sometimes finding the hole can take a long time, especially when there is fast-moving traffic on the road next to you that prevents you from hearing where the air is escaping.

And if it's raining, forget about the cement taking to the wet rubber inner tube.

FWIW

R

Originally posted by rippo
er..how likely is a patch to stick to the inside of the tire? the glue is supposed to be completely dry before you put on the patch anyway, so what's going to stick to the tire? and isn't the road going to keep things unstuck, just from all the jostling? i haven't had enough experience to know myself.

if that's true about putting talc on a patch, that sounds like an argument for bringing along a little bag of talc. rather than talcing the take-along tube, or the current tubes and tires. because you'd want the area to be talc-free before applying the patch. no?


Even though the glue feels dry I like to know the patch won't pull off when I remove the tube.
I also don't like the tube to stick to the tire, patch or no patch.

The "talc/no talc" debate rages on, probably since before I was born.
I learned a lot from the "old" roadies I used to ride with and they were all pro talc. :p

Oh, and if you do use talc and need to patch- a little spit will wipe the talc off the puncture area before you rough it up for the glue.

It's really no big deal, but I'll keep doing what has worked for me.

ok so we've got diehard talc fans and those who say it's hogwash. i'm as much in the dark as ever. :) i think maybe i'll go talc-less for now, for shear laziness/tidiness if nothing else. and then regret it (or not) later.

Powdered French chalk is what they use , you used to get a little puffer of it in the puncture kit or a stick of it ,that was an other use for the little grater thing in the kit ,to turn the french chalk stick into powder !! Talc. powder is a good sub. though.I always keep my spare tubes in a plastic bag with a dusting of talc in it ,Im sure it makes it easyer to fit ,especialy in the dark, but its all a matter of choice !!

As I have often suggested, here is another example (albeit a frivolous one) where cycling education and knowledge is not being passed down from the older generation of experienced cyclists to the new.

If you want to talc your tubes it will not hurt anything (besides making your hands a mess when you change a tube), but it is totally unnecessary. Proper installation technique (something else many have never learned) makes installing a tube a non-event, and a properly applied patch will not bond to the casing.

hayneda
who continues to be amazed at the propagation of these old cycling wives' tales

Originally posted by hayneda
As I have often suggested, here is another example (albeit a frivolous one) where cycling education and knowledge is not being passed down from the older generation of experienced cyclists to the new.


perhaps this is an example of 'knowledge' being passed down from one generation to the next. ;)

i just took a look at the instructions for my patch kit. no mention of talc in there. surely they'd mention it if it were necessary? so as to avoid a lot of irate and stranded cyclists, if nothing else.

thanks to everyone who chimed in!

Originally posted by hayneda
who continues to be amazed at the propagation of these old cycling wives' tales
I'm with you on that hayneda!

That stuff that comes in the tube box is actually "Faery Dust", which is why flats are such a rare occurence for cyclists. I do use talc, simply because I find it easier to position my tube in the tire and to avoid a "pinch" rupure upon reinflation. By the way, my little tube bag had it's own little rupture in the mall the other day, making the talc leak out of my backpack. Mall security had a little "talk about talc" with me. Don't use cheap tube baggies!

I won't wade into the talc debate - sometimes I talk, sometimes I don't. Here is an idea on tube storage/protection. Baggies are not that tough. They can be easily pierced by a tool and show signs of wear pretty quickly. I cut a used FEDEX Tyvek envelope in half and wrap a tube in that. Very tough yet still small and light.

Originally posted by RainmanP
I won't wade into the talc debate - sometimes I talk, sometimes I don't. Here is an idea on tube storage/protection. Baggies are not that tough. They can be easily pierced by a tool and show signs of wear pretty quickly. I cut a used FEDEX Tyvek envelope in half and wrap a tube in that. Very tough yet still small and light.

seems like a good idea, RainmanP.

but now another question to all: are you carrying this stuff around in a wedge? two tubes, a patch kit, tire irons, a multi-tool, a bag of talc and/or faerie dust...that's a heck of a wagon you're draggin'! where am i gonna put my cell phone? (which is probably the best emergency device..."honey, can you come get me?" :) )

i tried letting the air out of the tube and winding it up smaller. i did achieve a moderate reduction in size, perhaps 25%. but it still takes up a lot of room.

so...what's in your wedge? (i'm asking everyone, not just RainmanP) and what else do you bring along? and where do you put it?

I carry one spare tube, three tire levers, and one patch kit. If rain is possible I cram a light rain jacket in too.

On a very rare occasion, if I have two punctures and am forced to patch a tube at roadside; I just run my finger along the tube to pick up enough talc to dab the patch with.
If it's raining - to hell with the talc trick, I just cram the damn tube in, pump like there's no tomorrow, and get the hell out of there! :D

greywolf: I had forgotten about those chalks that came in the good kits. The generic kits I've been buying are chalkless.

Having had (on multiple occasions at work) to yank apart strong tire / tube fusions I stand by my use of talc inside the tires. The amount of adhesion is relative to the age of the combination or the amount of tire wear. Older bikes that have been sitting long enough for the sidewalls to dry rot are particularly bad as are high mileage commuter bikes. But to say that tires and tubes don't stick together (bear in mind this IS Florida) is plain wrong they may not permabond but they DO stick.

Originally posted by rippo
is that "no no [etc]" don't use talc, or use talc?


Thats the no no use talc.

I use talc on my tubes because I think it makes it easier for the tube to sit properly in the tire without bunching, twisting, kinking or pinching, all causes of premature flats.

Wedge contents:

2 tubes
1 patch kit
2 tire levers
1 mini tool
2 tubes of iodine gel; made for horses, not approved for, but works on humans
1 shower cap for my Brooks Swift, in case it rains
1 extra chain link
2 plastic zip ties

It all fits!