Rob Roy group buy

[cnickgo]

Can someone give a status update? Was a there a price given yet? Color? Estimated delivery time?

http://www.irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=88

[monkey]

Thanks! What a deal.

[climbhoser]

Thought you guys would be interested in hearing what Dave Moulton had to say personally about which bike I should pick. Again, for review, I am 5'10" (maybe a tad more, like a half) with a 33"-33.5" cycling inseam, and, here's the kicker, size 9 US shoes.

Dave's philosophy uses a much more 'holistic' approach to the bike fit incorporating overall height more than inseam, but also relying on foot length to dictate height a bit and forearm length to dictate TT fit. The two are interrelated, also.

If you hold your forearm up to your foot you will find that heel to toe is precisely the same length as elbow to wrist. In my case, size 9 feet are actually somewhat short-ish and thus my forearms are also shortish. I've always known my arms aren't the longest.

As such he suggested that I really could go with either the 56 or 58. However, because my feet are short for my height, which also means my effective leg length is shorter than if I had long feet, it seemed like the 56 would be more appropriate. Factor in also that my forearms (and overall arm, actually) are short as well and you get a result that says the shorter top tube would also be better.

He said this was very true for touring and commuting use as well, and not just 'cross racing. It was a very interesting and thorough analysis and I can't thank him enough for it. I've been hesitant on the 56 because I don't want to have to stack risers inches high just to keep myself in the right position, but Dave suggested that I probably wouldn't have to, and even if I did it's no big deal.

So, 56 it is!

[TimJ]

I don't understand how one would determine they have short arms. I mean, what's the average proportion?

[climbhoser]

Tim,

Have you ever heard of ape index?

Ape index is the length of your wingspan relative to your height. The artistic mean put forth by the Romans and Greeks was an ape index of 0, which meant your wingspan equalled your height. Well, of course this mean is very rare, and in fact the majority of people have a longer wingspan than their height.

It logically follows that the width of your shoulders has an effect in determining whether your arms are long or not.

I have a -1 ape index...I am in the minority percentile. Not only that, but I have very wide shoulders and wear a 44-46 sport coat. So, I am 5'10" with 44-46 sport coat width with a -1 ape index. I have short arms. I am Scottish and Irish and am build like a tall leprechaun with popeye forearms and calves and stubby fingers and toes. My forearms look like stovepipes. I have short arms.

Since I started biking my short arms have been a problem for me. As a young racer I always went for smaller mountain bikes for handling and for comfort, and always used a stubby stem and riser bars, too. One of the reasons I've always strayed from road riding is discomfort. I can't stand the hunched over feeling I get on bikes that are "my size." I always start a bike fitting by saying I like a more upright position because they'll cater to that whereas saying I have short arms doesn't always do much. I've always found touring bikes more comfortable. So, it's a catch-22 in this case...get the 58 so I don't have to stack spacers or get a 56 because the reach is shorter? Dave has convinced me the shorter reach will be more convenient and the height will be easier to deal with than the reach in the long run.

[MUDDY88YJ]

Is there going to be a complete bike in this group buy or just the frame and fork. thanks

[bward1028]

full build options will be dealt with when the frames arrive.

So far not the best news, though, but I'm waiting to hear from Tony on this. I asked him about the $350 he quoted me before, and it was my folly thinking that would be the total...he got back to me and said it was for the build kit, and did NOT include the frame and fork price. Oh yeah, and he bumped it from $350 to $380. Doing the math in my head, that means I did a buttload of work to get a full Rob Roy for exactly $59 less and I have to wait 3 months. Granted, it'll be a unique color, but I was expecting at the least $140 off the fully built bike price and not just $60. If the price was $460 I'd think it was a deal, and worth doing, but as is I'm just going to buy one frame and build it with cheap stuff I find around the net. Obviously I'm kind of pissed.

I did e-mail Tony back, twice now, asking him if there was any maneuverability in that price at all. I lobbied on behalf of those who would rather pay $59 more to get a bike now, but I haven't heard anything back. I also asked him if he could discount it for just sending a box full of parts instead of a built bike, as I know many of y'all wouldn't mind putting it together yourselves.

So, I'm bummed because I'm really stoked on the RR and I feel like it was kind of a bust. For those of you who just wanted the frame anyways I'm super glad that you get a great deal on that, at least. Looks like I'm going that route, too.

All I can say is those of you who want a build can lobby Tony all you want. Previously I worried about overwhelming him, but I think he's gotta still be making money on the frames, even a little bit, and even if we're getting them at his cost there's no way the math adds up for a fully built bike at $540. So, I think there's something funny and I want to know what. Not saying he's doing ANYTHING dishonest at all, but he's either taking a huge hit on the full Rob Roy or he's making a mint on us.

Anyways, give me your thoughts...

complete build is available, but not as part of the group buy. in other words, you don't get a sweet deal on the parts like you do on the frameset.

[MUDDY88YJ]

Thanks can you get the complete build in orange.

[bward1028]

you can get the frame in orange:
The framesets will be available in 3 colors Black,Dark Green and Orange

you could probably get deep v's in orange. you probably can't get the whole build kit in orange [/obtuse]

[cnickgo]

Thanks can you get the complete build in orange.

http://www.irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12

If Tony uses the parts from his usual RR build, you can only select black/silver on those items. But like bward said you could probably change your wheelset to a custom deep v set and choose orange or whatever color you want.

[dwainedibbly]

All of this talk of biometrics is very interesting.

Anyone know how many frames have been reserved so far?

[climbhoser]

All of this talk of biometrics is very interesting.

Anyone know how many frames have been reserved so far?

66

[sping]

If you hold your forearm up to your foot you will find that heel to toe is precisely the same length as elbow to wrist.

Interesting. My forearm is about 2 inches longer than my foot... 6'2", 35" PBH, size 11 feet... So that may confirm I have long reach.

I'm currently riding a 57cm top tube with 110mm stem to flat bars, and find it fairly reasonable, certainly not too long, pretty short when I stand up, but that's probably inevitable with flat bars. Perhaps my order for a Rob Roy 62 (58cm TT) wasn't wrong. I've been contemplating a change to the 60 (57cm TT), but need to do more research.

I'm planning to use it primarily for urban riding (traffic, etc. - don't want drop bars), but if I use anything but flat bars (kind of like the idea of bull-horns), perhaps the 62 will still be a little long.

[climbhoser]

Interesting. My forearm is about 2 inches longer than my foot... 6'2", 35" PBH, size 11 feet... So that may confirm I have long reach.

I'm currently riding a 57cm top tube with 110mm stem to flat bars, and find it fairly reasonable, certainly not too long, pretty short when I stand up, but that's probably inevitable with flat bars. Perhaps my order for a Rob Roy 62 (58cm TT) wasn't wrong. I've been contemplating a change to the 60 (57cm TT), but need to do more research.

I'm planning to use it primarily for urban riding (traffic, etc. - don't want drop bars), but if I use anything but flat bars (kind of like the idea of bull-horns), perhaps the 62 will still be a little long.


You're a perfect example of Dave Moulton's philosophy. Because you stand 4" taller than me, but your PBH is only 1.5-2" higher than mine! So, you have a much longer torso. He also says that if you have a shorter inseam, but longer feet then your arms will be long (this taken from notes about the animal kingdom).

I think the 62 will be fine, and you can always pick up a 90mm stem and get the same effective TT measurement as your old bike. I think the question would be if you have to jack the seat up on a 60 and end up bending over to reach the bars!

[rystone]

FYI - Tony said the black frame is gloss black not flat like the previous group buy. Count me in for one!

[The LT]

So I am trying to decide between a 58 and a 60 and I am definitely leaning towards the 58 at this point but wanted to see what other thought. My thoughts from what I have seen so far is that the 58cm will fit better in terms of reach but the 60cm might be better for height.

I just made some measurements and I have a 6' 3/4" wingspan and I stand 6'2" I wear a size 10.5 shoe and have ~34" inseam

I used the fit calculator on competitive cyclist and got these results from them

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 86
Trunk: 68
Forearm: 34
Arm: 68
Thigh: 62
Lower Leg: 55
Sternal Notch: 155
Total Body Height: 188


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.7 - 56.2
Seat tube range c-t: 57.4 - 57.9
Top tube length: 55.1 - 55.5
Stem Length: 11.5 - 12.1
BB-Saddle Position: 73.7 - 75.7
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.8 - 55.4
Saddle Setback: 6.5 - 6.9
Seatpost Type: SETBACK


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 56.9 - 57.4
Seat tube range c-t: 58.6 - 59.1
Top tube length: 55.1 - 55.5
Stem Length: 10.4 - 11.0
BB-Saddle Position: 72.9 - 74.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 55.6 - 56.2
Saddle Setback: 7.7 - 8.1
Seatpost Type: SETBACK


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 58.6 - 59.1
Seat tube range c-t: 60.3 - 60.8
Top tube length: 56.3 - 56.7
Stem Length: 10.6 - 11.2
BB-Saddle Position: 71.2 - 73.2
Saddle-Handlebar: 57.3 - 57.9
Saddle Setback: 7.2 - 7.6
Seatpost Type: SETBACK

[TimJ]

I just wanted to bump this and remind everyone to go buy a sweet Rob Roy (http://www.irofixedgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=88) before October 5th.

I ordered a 58 green the other day. Yay!

[rocks in head]

only 78 so far? I thought there was a lot more interest than this... is it because people were hoping for a complete IRO at a ridiculous price? (I was) It's still a GREAT deal on the frame! Plus oodles of customization!

[climbhoser]

only 78 so far? I thought there was a lot more interest than this... is it because people were hoping for a complete IRO at a ridiculous price? (I was) It's still a GREAT deal on the frame! Plus oodles of customization!


I know of at least 5-10 folks that couldn't get in til the end of the month due to payday issues.

I know a couple that also flaked because of the build option being more than expected.

I also know several just haven't gotten around to doing it! I'll send an e-mail out tonight or tomorrow with urgings, nudgings and the lowdown on the build for those who don't have it yet.

[Ronsonic]

I'm holding off until my B'day next week. Hooray for me.

Ron

[Ronsonic]

Interesting. My forearm is about 2 inches longer than my foot... 6'2", 35" PBH, size 11 feet... So that may confirm I have long reach.

I'm currently riding a 57cm top tube with 110mm stem to flat bars, and find it fairly reasonable, certainly not too long, pretty short when I stand up, but that's probably inevitable with flat bars. Perhaps my order for a Rob Roy 62 (58cm TT) wasn't wrong. I've been contemplating a change to the 60 (57cm TT), but need to do more research.

I'm planning to use it primarily for urban riding (traffic, etc. - don't want drop bars), but if I use anything but flat bars (kind of like the idea of bull-horns), perhaps the 62 will still be a little long.

Your dimensions are almost the same as mine (another simian). I'm going for the 60 - but that's for mustache bars if not drops. That should be perfect for me with a 110 stem. For a flat bar I'd need a bit more reach. I'd expect you'd run the same size for a given bar type. I'm thinking for bullhorns you'll want a 60 as well, you just won't need as much cockpit length.

Ron

[MarkWW]

can people still get in on this, or can only people that already signed up pay the deposit and get a frame? I wouldn't want to pay the deposit only to find out i ripped someone else off from a frame since it says there's only 21 left.

[TimJ]

There's not only 21 left, that's just a countdown to 100. 1000 people could buy frames and they'd all get one.

In short: anyone can buy as much as they want.

[fat_bike_nut]

I know of at least 5-10 folks that couldn't get in til the end of the month due to payday issues.

That includes me :o

I would have put a deposit down sooner, but...

[climbhoser]

That includes me :o

I would have put a deposit down sooner, but...


Includes me, too!

But, I have a $400 bonus coming to me for "superior performance in the third quarter," whatever that means. I guess my time spent on this GB didn't effect my ability to prospect financial advisors for possible leads :eek:

Anyhoo, I'll be poppin' for mine in a week.

[cristobal87]

Anyone know anything about the quality of IROs drive train build kits? I'm looking to use my Rob Roy as an SS commuter, what do you think?

Thanks

[climbhoser]

Tony, check it out I'm gonna hype your product again!

I think the IRO drivetrains are great for their price. The BB is solid, the cranks are better, IMHO, than the Suginos, the chainrings are very high quality and the cogs are dern good, too. All in all his parts are worth the price they're asking and are a very good deal. The hubs are Formula, so you know the quality there. Even the headset is a great price for what it is, and where can you find Brooks for the price Tony's asking? I don't know about his brakesets, but stem and handlebar are whatever anyways, and you can get a Noodle from him if you elect. I don't think there's a part he builds with that I think is bargain basement...they're all good, and a full build would be a super sweet one with all the parts I could ever want on an SS if the price was better ;)

[doco]

I will also chime in for the quality on Tony's parts....I have a set of Iro Wheels and a crank from him that is over 3 years of hard, abusive use...still going strong and no problems..even the wheels still true and roll easy

[Ronsonic]

Be nice to see a single ring crankset in a cross friendly tooth count.

Ron

[sping]

Your dimensions are almost the same as mine (another simian). I'm going for the 60 - but that's for mustache bars if not drops. That should be perfect for me with a 110 stem. For a flat bar I'd need a bit more reach. I'd expect you'd run the same size for a given bar type. I'm thinking for bullhorns you'll want a 60 as well, you just won't need as much cockpit length.

Ron

Actually, I did a better job of measuring, and actually have a 36" PBH (6'2", feet 11)... Still, as you point out, bullhorns will bring extra reach, so I'm still wavering

[period3]

The IRO web page is announcing a 20% discount on all 2007 products. Anyone know if this includes parts/buildkits too?

(Also, with a 20% discount, the $599 rob roy would be $480 -- so now the group buy is actually more expensive for a compelte bike?)

[climbhoser]

Actually, if you buy the whole kit it's $380 for everything. Take 20% off and it's $304. Add $160 and you get $464. But, the catch is you have to buy all the parts right now, and the frame won't come until Jan. from the group buy. For those interested this definitely brings it down to where we wanted the price to be. Problem is after some frustration some of us have decided to pony up and buy other parts!

For some reason, though, it won't let me into the groub buy page.

[Old Dirt Hill]

edit

[jhota]

Be nice to see a single ring crankset in a cross friendly tooth count.

Ron

i think i'm probably going to use a mountain crank - the "new" 4-bolt design should give me a nice gear selection for what i want...

[Old Dirt Hill]

Actually, if you buy the whole kit it's $380 for everything. Take 20% off and it's $304. Add $160 and you get $464.

I'm getting $393 for the build kit + wheels?

$393 - 20% = $314.40 + $160 = $474.40

Or just buy the complete for $599 - 20% = $479.20

I really want the orange Rob Roy, so I'll probably put my $$$ in for the deposit...but I can't help but wonder if the extra months of waiting is worth a limited color run and $5 savings.

Can someone help persuade me one way or the other? :o

[climbhoser]

wheels are $194

Build kit is $189

putting us at $383 for the whole kit.

The one thing that doesn't include that the built bike does, though, is brakes. How much are brakes? But, Tony gave us a $380 quote on everything including brakes. The question to pose to him is would we get 20% off if we bought now?

[climbhoser]

BTW, say yes to Michigan, but say Yah to da UP, eh!

[Old Dirt Hill]

wheels are $194

Build kit is $189

putting us at $383 for the whole kit.

The one thing that doesn't include that the built bike does, though, is brakes. How much are brakes? But, Tony gave us a $380 quote on everything including brakes. The question to pose to him is would we get 20% off if we bought now?

Ahh, I was looking at the black wheelset, which is $10 more. Someone should find out about the $380 quote from Tony and determine if the 20% off applies.

[Old Dirt Hill]

BTW, say yes to Michigan, but say Yah to da UP, eh!

Only in the UP...

http://www.daupeh.com/daUPeh/images/yooperdeer.jpg

(taken from http://www.daupeh.com/)

[climbhoser]

Ahh, I was looking at the black wheelset, which is $10 more. Someone should find out about the $380 quote from Tony and determine if the 20% off applies.


Already called him...got a vm, said they were doing inventory. I left a message and e-mailed him. I think if he gets bombarded with e-mails he's bound to write someone back, though ;)

Regardless, I've gone the way of my own build options. Alex Adventurer rims are $25 a piece...got a $10 UN73 BB, some Bulletproof cranks, RocketRings and I woulda upgraded to the On One Midge anyhoo. Tektro brakes, spending $50 on the whole setup (just cantis). Only thing I need from Tony is the headset (smokin' deal), the seatpost (again, smokin' deal) and the front hub (yet another smokin' deal). Nexus in back. I've decided as well to build both my wife's bike and mine like this.

We'll see what he says when gets back to me, or someone else...

[climbhoser]

Only in the UP...

http://www.daupeh.com/daUPeh/images/yooperdeer.jpg

(taken from http://www.daupeh.com/)


That looks like Escanaba, eh.

I just moved from Marquette, actually. Of course it's the one town in da UP that isn't really da UP, but we lived closer to Gwinn and Negaunee anyways ;)

[cnickgo]

Regardless, I've gone the way of my own build options. Alex Adventurer rims are $25 a piece...got a $10 UN73 BB, some Bulletproof cranks, RocketRings and I woulda upgraded to the On One Midge anyhoo. Tektro brakes, spending $50 on the whole setup (just cantis). Only thing I need from Tony is the headset (smokin' deal), the seatpost (again, smokin' deal) and the front hub (yet another smokin' deal). Nexus in back. I've decided as well to build both my wife's bike and mine like this.


Seems like the thing to do... Even if we can't get a decent deal on the whole build from Tony, it seems to me like building off a group buy frame and bargain hunting worthy parts for 3 months is better than getting the whole build from Tony now. Plus collecting parts over 3 months doesn't feel like your spending as much. Let the beauty of ebay/craigslist/ bf-for-sale or trade play it's role, the end result will be both satisfactory to the eye and the pocket.

[TimJ]

The group buy page at IRO isn't working.

He didn't stop orders after 100, did he?

Anyway, it's down, someone please tell him (I cannot presently).

[climbhoser]

The group buy page at IRO isn't working.

He didn't stop orders after 100, did he?

Anyway, it's down, someone please tell him (I cannot presently).

wrote him an e-mail and left him two vms...anybody else that wants to throw in a word to him can no doubt only expedite things.

[dirtyphotons]

hey guys, just raced my rob roy yesterday and it felt great. me looking bewidlered:

http://www.bikerackcyclocross.com/foo/robroy.jpg

don't have much to compare it to, but it was plenty light to shoulder. i did better than i expected, so the bike certainly wasnt holding me back. and i didn't find singlespeed to be much if any of a disadvantage.

[fluxgame]

wrote him an e-mail and left him two vms...anybody else that wants to throw in a word to him can no doubt only expedite things.

Isn't he on vacation?

[climbhoser]

Dave,

That's what the site says, but his vm says they're re-stocking and doing inventory. It would really torque me if he didn't fix the site before he got back from vaca or whatever he's doing. I might just have to get my truck sold and buy a Kogswell instead! Dernit, because I was really looking forward to the BRG and 700c wheels.

dirtyphotons, did you go ahead and just buy the bike?

[fluxgame]

I might just have to get my truck sold and buy a Kogswell instead!

Yeah, the whole thing is really starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth... I'm kinda leaning towards skipping out on this one and learning to braze this winter.

[dirtyphotons]

dirtyphotons, did you go ahead and just buy the bike?

i've had it for a little over a year, and love it.

it's been my daily commuter, rain bike, trail machine and now race bike. couldn't be happier.

[Old Dirt Hill]

Let's just hope he gets back before 10/8 when the group buy ends. I really want an orange Rob Roy.