Rob Roy group buy

[doco]

Hey Adam, I hear ya, I just went to IRO site to put my deposit down and group buy page nowwhere to be found.
Then I read the posts of late, so NOW what's going on.

I am just about ready to keep my crosscheck and part it out and sell the parts on ebay and buy parts to convert the crosscheck to a ss...

I sent some emails but in a year and a half he has never answered one....




Dave,

That's what the site says, but his vm says they're re-stocking and doing inventory. It would really torque me if he didn't fix the site before he got back from vaca or whatever he's doing. I might just have to get my truck sold and buy a Kogswell instead! Dernit, because I was really looking forward to the BRG and 700c wheels.

dirtyphotons, did you go ahead and just buy the bike?

[mihlbach]

Whats up? I was going to make my RR group buy deposit and the website says its out of stock and I can't make my deposit.

Edit: Ok, I emailed Tony.

[climbhoser]

Matt,

check out the previous page. If you can, please send tony an e-mail. I feel like the more e-mails he gets the more likely he is to respond. My whining only goes so far.

[knucklesandwich]

So $462 gets you the frame/fork, build kit, and wheelset, using the 20% off on the non-frame portions of the order? And then you still need to buy brakes, bar tape, cables, tubes, tires, etc?

Am I figuring this right?

I was thinking abt hopping into this group buy once we settled on our new house, but at these prices, I might as well just sit back and buy the cheapest San Jose/Madison/One Way, etc I come across this winter...

[climbhoser]

So $462 gets you the frame/fork, build kit, and wheelset, using the 20% off on the non-frame portions of the order? And then you still need to buy brakes, bar tape, cables, tubes, tires, etc?

Am I figuring this right?

I was thinking abt hopping into this group buy once we settled on our new house, but at these prices, I might as well just sit back and buy the cheapest San Jose/Madison/One Way, etc I come across this winter...


Well, I want to hear what Tony says first...because he gave us the $380 build kit price and that included brakes. So, would he gives us 20% off of that? And cables? Then we'd supplement the tires and bar tape.

Most bikes I'd swap tires out anyways.

Is it a good deal? We'll just have to wait to hear from the man himself, I guess...

[Old Dirt Hill]

edit

[Psydotek]

Anyone know anything about the quality of IROs drive train build kits? I'm looking to use my Rob Roy as an SS commuter, what do you think?

Thanks
IRO drivetrain bits are good. I have them on my BFSSFG frame.

I hope the page gets up soon. I was about to put down my deposit today and it wasn't there... :(

[a4blur]

Any chance the group buy page will allow new deposits to be made? :(

[TimJ]

Any chance the group buy page will allow new deposits to be made? :(

No one knows, but the most reasonable explanation I think is something got goofed and the page isn't supposed to be down and as soon as he realizes it is he'll put it back up.

I would bet it'll go back up in time for more deposits. I'll bet 5 moneys.

[mihlbach]

Heres my understanding of it...maybe climbhoser can clarify...

There has never been a stated quantity limit to this groupbuy. The group buy page started with a quantity of 100. Apparently 100 people have submitted their deposits, so the webpage thinks that the frame is out of stock, which is of course, rediculous, because they haven't even been made yet.Tony or whoever is behind the website needs to "restock" the $60 frame deposit. Unfortunately, it seems that the IRO people are on vacation until Oct. 15 and the group buy ends on Oct. 8. Hopefully, someone on their end is checking their emails or we may be out of luck, unless they extend the deadline. We have 12 days left, so something should happen by then....hopefully?

[Old Dirt Hill]

Everyone do their part and send an email or/and make a phone call. Pah-leese. ;)

[Old Dirt Hill]

edit

[rocks in head]

nah, Visa is everywhere the IRO Group Buy deposit wants to be... or at least I used it for mine.

[caloso]

Getting excited. I need to start accumulating the parts for my build...

[cnickgo]

If it gets to that point, I think Tony would realize the mistake and reopen the page for x amount of time. It would be crazy for him to say oh well and not sell more frames.


Heres my understanding of it...maybe climbhoser can clarify...

There has never been a stated quantity limit to this groupbuy. The group buy page started with a quantity of 100. Apparently 100 people have submitted their deposits, so the webpage thinks that the frame is out of stock, which is of course, rediculous, because they haven't even been made yet.Tony or whoever is behind the website needs to "restock" the $60 frame deposit. Unfortunately, it seems that the IRO people are on vacation until Oct. 15 and the group buy ends on Oct. 8. Hopefully, someone on their end is checking their emails or we may be out of luck, unless they extend the deadline. We have 12 days left, so something should happen by then....hopefully?

[climbhoser]

If it gets to that point, I think Tony would realize the mistake and reopen the page for x amount of time. It would be crazy for him to say oh well and not sell more frames.

You would hope so. After all the framebuilder has a few months for Tony to get additional orders out.

I wish I could be appeased by that hypothetical, though. The fact might be that Tony's just a laid back, easy going guy and there's no worries, but for a high octane cube-jockey like myself I get antsy and I think it's just good business sense to have the capability to connect with that as a product provider. I like folks that provide me with answers, which I've seen very few of.

So yeah, let's hope it'll all work out. I can think of at least twenty hypothetical situations where it wouldn't, though, and I haven't even tried!

[cnickgo]

You would hope so. After all the framebuilder has a few months for Tony to get additional orders out.

I wish I could be appeased by that hypothetical, though. The fact might be that Tony's just a laid back, easy going guy and there's no worries, but for a high octane cube-jockey like myself I get antsy and I think it's just good business sense to have the capability to connect with that as a product provider. I like folks that provide me with answers, which I've seen very few of.

So yeah, let's hope it'll all work out. I can think of at least twenty hypothetical situations where it wouldn't, though, and I haven't even tried!

It is most certainly good business to have the connection, have no doubt that my confidence is decreasing with each new issue, I just don't want people to give up home on getting on this buy at least for the frame just yet.

[climbhoser]

It is most certainly good business to have the connection, have no doubt that my confidence is decreasing with each new issue, I just don't want people to give up home on getting on this buy at least for the frame just yet.

I don't, either. But I also don't want folks to get burned. Not saying Tony would burn anyone, but it's hard to ignore that possibility!

[bonechilling]

Guys, it'll be fine. If you have a few hours to kill, plow through the original GB thread on the SS/FG forum and see how much trepidation there was. Tony just seems to do things at his own pace, but it all gets done, and done well.

For all our worrying and impatience, we got a great deal on some really good frames (I've already logged 1000+ miles on mine), with only the most minor complaints.

[dwainedibbly]

Guys, it'll be fine. If you have a few hours to kill, plow through the original GB thread on the SS/FG forum and see how much trepidation there was. Tony just seems to do things at his own pace, but it all gets done, and done well.

For all our worrying and impatience, we got a great deal on some really good frames (I've already logged 1000+ miles on mine), with only the most minor complaints.

+1 to all of that....

Backround: I dropped off of bikeforums for a about 6 weeks at exactly the wrong time & missed the group buy, officially. I arranged with another member to take over his reservation long before the frames shipped & reimburse him for his deposit, etc. It was clearly a non-standard situation in the midst of a larger non-standard situation (the group buy itself). Tony was cool with all of it, I got my frame without problem, and all is well. You have to remember that IRO is a small business, but it DOES have a reputation to protect.

Hang in there, don't sweat it.

I'm curious. How many people, besides me, who got a frame from the first group buy are getting in on this group buy? (This one is for my wife.)

[Old Dirt Hill]

I purchased one from the first group buy. This will be my second and third IRO framesets, if I'm ever able to put down my deposit money.

[Ziemas]

I don't, either. But I also don't want folks to get burned. Not saying Tony would burn anyone, but it's hard to ignore that possibility!

What gives you any indication at all that Tony would rip people off? Man, you have nerve! First you b!tch and moan when you don't get a build kit for next to free for organizing the group buy, and now when Tony has the nerve to leave the office for a few weeks and he's not there to hold your little hand you start saying he might 'burn' people. WTF? :fight:

I was going to pick up a frame in this GB, but as you are so incredibly high strung and exceptionally insulting I'll just buy a regular RR as I can't stomach the thought of being associated with you in any way!

[sping]

What gives you any indication at all that Tony would rip people off?...

A bit stronger than I 'd have put it, but he's right. Suggesting that Tony might be about to rip us off is a bit beyond the pale at this point. If I was Tony and I read your posts, I wouldn't answer another question of yours and I'd rip you a new one if I ever spoke to you. All reports are that he is a good and honest businessman, so suggesting he might completely destroy his business reputation for what? $6000? is ridiculous.

The only way this could go wrong is if they're going bankrupt, and Tony is a dishonest ******* who's prepared to commit obvious fraud for which he'd go to jail. I don't think that's plausible.

Now, thank you for organizing this climbhoser - I really appreciate the work and the opportunity, but the whining and rash speculative accusations are souring the pleasure of this buy.

As for:

Everyone do their part and send an email or/and make a phone call.

Please don't call whatever you do. Any idea how annoying it will be to get back from vacation to find your voicemail filled up with redundant messages you have to spend hours sitting through? Emails would be bad enough. He may never do a group buy again.

[climbhoser]

when you guys read a book do you get stuck on there mere story or do you read into the subtext?

My point, if you read my posts, is that there are plenty of possible situations, the best of which being Tony forgot and it'll be fixed no problem, the worst of which is he ran off with the money. Am I saying Tony will rip anyone off? No! I'm saying I'm anal because I fear a thousand and one possible situations where folks don't get to put their money down. I mean, dang you guys are being a little supersensitive.

And as for all the "it's a small business" excuses you want to make, it's BS when a guy can't get the site running, but understandable if he gets it fixed in a few days, especially when there's a deadline. However, this doesn't look like it'll be fixed until he gets back AFTER the deadline and will have to make exceptions. Ok, so cool, he does so for us. It's still just bad business and stupid. He has folks working for him (none of whom are pleasant in any way) and I don't see why it would be so hard to check your vms or have someone check your e-mails, reply to the situation in some manner rather than leave people hanging.

You know Matt at Kogswell would have replied by now. If anything he would have checked bf.net and replied, even if he was in friggin' Cambodia! Is his biz somehow bigger? No, but definitely smarter and better! And will probably succeed due to that in large part.

Ziemas, you think it burns me that you don't get a GB frame? If you're petty enough to not get in on a cheap frame because some guy on a net put a worst case hypothetical situation out there as a contributing reason to why he's working to make sure it, among others, DOESN'T happen then good luck to you, sir, and it's your loss.

As for the build, yeah I was torqued because Tony DID jerk me around. Don't accept it? Well, we can reinvestigate that anytime you like. His story has been continually full of holes and chit and suddenly now, without precedent he's discounting everything anyways. Wouldn't it have been just a little standard for him to think "Hey, since I'm discounting my stuff and since there's been 100 deposits on the GB frame already and since the guy organizing it has said many of them are interested in a full build, wouldn't it be nice of me to mention this discount and maybe work out a way for me to hold the parts until the frames arrive and do the build here?" Not just nice, Tony, it would have been GOOD business!

I know he might not have known he would put this discount out there when we were inquiring about build options (only a couple of weeks before he did, though) but he could have mentioned it to me...returned just ONE e-mail or phone call for chrissakes.

So, do what you want, think what you want...Ziemas, I'm convinced you weren't going to do the GB anyways as you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

I just know from a business standpoint that this could have been done much better. That's why I say call him, because he needs to know. First link in the chain of improvement is identifying a need. There's a need...I wish I had never done this only to be jerked around by IRO and have to deal with folks like y'all.

[Old Dirt Hill]

Please don't call whatever you do. Any idea how annoying it will be to get back from vacation to find your voicemail filled up with redundant messages you have to spend hours sitting through? Emails would be bad enough. He may never do a group buy again.

Understood. You're probably right. I made the comment I did because I'm just a little bummed that the page isn't working. As I've mentioned before, I own one of the BFSSFG IRO frames and am nothing short of thrilled with it. I've turned into quite the IRO fan and just want to expand my stable.

Tony, if you're reading this, I hope you're having a great and well-deserved vacation.

[Kogswell]

I've known Tony as long as anyone and I've been a customer of his since Day Two.

No one provides better value than Tony and no one provides better service.

The only person who can out-gun Tony is Tony and that's exactly what he did with the first Group Buy. He took it to a whole new level.

There are hundreds and soon there will be thousands of satisfied IRO customers out there, including me. And that alone means that he's getting the job done.

The only way for any of us to improve on that is to offer Tony our help and our patience.

-Matthew

[Ziemas]

when you guys read a book do you get stuck on there mere story or do you read into the subtext?

My point, if you read my posts, is that there are plenty of possible situations, the best of which being Tony forgot and it'll be fixed no problem, the worst of which is he ran off with the money. Am I saying Tony will rip anyone off? No! I'm saying I'm anal because I fear a thousand and one possible situations where folks don't get to put their money down. I mean, dang you guys are being a little supersensitive.

And as for all the "it's a small business" excuses you want to make, it's BS when a guy can't get the site running, but understandable if he gets it fixed in a few days, especially when there's a deadline. However, this doesn't look like it'll be fixed until he gets back AFTER the deadline and will have to make exceptions. Ok, so cool, he does so for us. It's still just bad business and stupid. He has folks working for him (none of whom are pleasant in any way) and I don't see why it would be so hard to check your vms or have someone check your e-mails, reply to the situation in some manner rather than leave people hanging.

You know Matt at Kogswell would have replied by now. If anything he would have checked bf.net and replied, even if he was in friggin' Cambodia! Is his biz somehow bigger? No, but definitely smarter and better! And will probably succeed due to that in large part.

Ziemas, you think it burns me that you don't get a GB frame? If you're petty enough to not get in on a cheap frame because some guy on a net put a worst case hypothetical situation out there as a contributing reason to why he's working to make sure it, among others, DOESN'T happen then good luck to you, sir, and it's your loss.

As for the build, yeah I was torqued because Tony DID jerk me around. Don't accept it? Well, we can reinvestigate that anytime you like. His story has been continually full of holes and chit and suddenly now, without precedent he's discounting everything anyways. Wouldn't it have been just a little standard for him to think "Hey, since I'm discounting my stuff and since there's been 100 deposits on the GB frame already and since the guy organizing it has said many of them are interested in a full build, wouldn't it be nice of me to mention this discount and maybe work out a way for me to hold the parts until the frames arrive and do the build here?" Not just nice, Tony, it would have been GOOD business!

I know he might not have known he would put this discount out there when we were inquiring about build options (only a couple of weeks before he did, though) but he could have mentioned it to me...returned just ONE e-mail or phone call for chrissakes.

So, do what you want, think what you want...Ziemas, I'm convinced you weren't going to do the GB anyways as you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

I just know from a business standpoint that this could have been done much better. That's why I say call him, because he needs to know. First link in the chain of improvement is identifying a need. There's a need...I wish I had never done this only to be jerked around by IRO and have to deal with folks like y'all.

All right I'll say it. I called up Tony several weeks ago and asked him if as you said the Rob Roy was being discontinued. He told me that no, it wasn't, and it was one of his best sellers. He seemed rather surprised at the idea. He also commented this whole 'the Rob Roy will be discontinued' BS sounded like a marketing ploy by you to get enough people into the group buy.


In the dealings I've had with Tony he's been a straight shooter and 100% honest and dependable. Through out this whole group buy you've been dishonest, greedy, and now paranoid and shifty. You are an ungrateful lout with a massive sense of entitlement.

[Old Dirt Hill]

I've known Tony as long as anyone and I've been a customer of his since Day Two.

No one provides better value than Tony and no one provides better service.

The only person who can out-gun Tony is Tony and that's exactly what he did with the first Group Buy. He took it to a whole new level.

There are hundreds and soon there will be thousands of satisfied IRO customers out there, including me. And that alone means that he's getting the job done.

The only way for any of us to improve on that is to offer Tony our help and our patience.

-Matthew


+10 Well said.

[climbhoser]

All right I'll say it. I called up Tony several weeks ago and asked him if as you said the Rob Roy was being discontinued. He told me that no, it wasn't, and it was one of his best sellers. He seemed rather surprised at the idea. He also commented this whole 'the Rob Roy will be discontinued' BS sounded like a marketing ploy by you to get enough people into the group buy.


In the dealings I've had with Tony he's been a straight shooter and 100% honest and dependable. Through out this whole group buy you've been dishonest, greedy, and now paranoid and shifty. You are an ungrateful lout with a massive sense of entitlement.


Hey think what you will about the "marketing ploy." Glad to know from day #1 that Tony was developing just as shifty and paranoid a plot as the guy he caused shiftiness and paranoia in!

Call and ask for Brad. I told my story. Brad said the RR would be discontinued, and used that word. He xferred me to Tony, I told Tony what Brad said and he said, and I quote, "Yeah, it'll be different next year." I told the group that if they wanted a RR it would need to be now or never because I was told as it stands now it wouldn't exist next year. He didn't specify if the entire concept would be gone or if he would just tweak some things. His words are as I quoted above.

Dishonest? I'm not dishonest. I may have misunderstood originally when Tony said $350 for the build that he meant just the parts and not the frame, too...but that's reasonable for me to assume when $350+$160 gets me a discount on a new bike that's hardly worth the wait.

Greedy? I don't care if he had said no to the GB all along! I do care that if he's going to offer us a discount he could offer one without all the traps. All I wanted all along was to see if it was possible to get folks a bike at a discount. Tony's GB service is great, and I am nothing but appreciative of the fact that he does it, but when I originally inquired and put it out there about a GB and a full build and I would garner interest and tell him and he would see what I could do and come up with some possibilities, he could have mentioned that a fully built bike would be still near enough the same price that I might not waste my energy! That's all I'm peeved about. Not greed...I'm pissed I did tons of work spreading the word for nothing and he's not even doing his part of the biz! I brought him over 100 people interested in a GB who may not have bought a bike otherwise.

BTW, Ziemas, how the hell did you get him on the phone? He won't pick up or return anyone else's calls.

Matt,

I appreciate your words. I hate to make an example of you, but again, what you just said is good business. I'm impressed everytime you post with how you handle yourself and your company.

However, I've offered help beyond help and patience that is now running out. I've said it before, he's jerked me around. If you want anecdotal evidence I'm happy to post it all, but he's given me BS from day one. A good example is this "discontinued" agenda with the RR. He left me with the unalterable impression that the RR as is would be no more next year, and he alone made the decision not to go into detail on how. In fact, I even prodded him, asking if it would be some upgrades and mods, and he only replied "Just some changes," as if it's his secret until the unveiling next year.

I don't care if he changes the bike...but I do care if he played ME! I didn't play anybody.

I also never cared if I was compensated for the marketing. A cheap bike was enough for me...but I'll admit I attempted to bargain with Tony on the price of parts after I found out close to the original price they would be. And, in fact, I tried to bargain on behalf of the entire group, FWIW. I said put an incentive structure on it...I bring in 20 people that want a build, discount it 10% for example. I just wanted to see if he was flexible. If not, fine, but if so then great!

In retrospect I think that dealing with Tony on a single transaction would be better than this...and I'm sure he would have been fine in that respect. So, maybe I'm just pissed at the group, and the effort I put in for little reward.

But you can't tell me that tony's lack of a response is anything but an indication of poor business sense.

and Matt, seriously, you're so with it you're even posting in the IRO GB forum! That's what I'm talking about!

[Ziemas]

Hey think what you will about the "marketing ploy." Glad to know from day #1 that Tony was developing just as shifty and paranoid a plot as the guy he caused shiftiness and paranoia in!

Call and ask for Brad. I told my story. Brad said the RR would be discontinued, and used that word. He xferred me to Tony, I told Tony what Brad said and he said, and I quote, "Yeah, it'll be different next year." I told the group that if they wanted a RR it would need to be now or never because I was told as it stands now it wouldn't exist next year. He didn't specify if the entire concept would be gone or if he would just tweak some things. His words are as I quoted above.

Dishonest? I'm not dishonest. I may have misunderstood originally when Tony said $350 for the build that he meant just the parts and not the frame, too...but that's reasonable for me to assume when $350+$160 gets me a discount on a new bike that's hardly worth the wait.

Greedy? I don't care if he had said no to the GB all along! I do care that if he's going to offer us a discount he could offer one without all the traps. All I wanted all along was to see if it was possible to get folks a bike at a discount. Tony's GB service is great, and I am nothing but appreciative of the fact that he does it, but when I originally inquired and put it out there about a GB and a full build and I would garner interest and tell him and he would see what I could do and come up with some possibilities, he could have mentioned that a fully built bike would be still near enough the same price that I might not waste my energy! That's all I'm peeved about. Not greed..]I'm pissed I did tons of work spreading the word for nothing and he's not even doing his part of the biz! I brought him over 100 people interested in a GB who may not have bought a bike otherwise.

BTW, Ziemas, how the hell did you get him on the phone? He won't pick up or return anyone else's calls.



He could have mentioned about a full bike? WTF? You could have asked about one too! You really seem to think the world owes you something.

As for calling I've never had a problem getting in touch with IRO. If the line is busy I simply call back later. I'm not an impatient person, so it's not an issue for me.

[climbhoser]

He could have mentioned about a full bike? WTF? You could have asked about one too! You really seem to think the world owes you something.

As for calling I've never had a problem getting in touch with IRO. If the line is busy I simply call back later. I'm not an impatient person, so it's not an issue for me.

Never had the line be busy...but it's 1 out of 20 calls that gets through. And 1 out of 50 e-mails that gets a response. I never get a call back.

FYI, I DID ask about a full build from a get go. The only thing I feel owed is honesty and clear cut communication. Tony has given me half-responses from day 1. I just wish you could have been there, because talking like you're doing, out of your arse that is, is presuming you know what my conversations with Tony have been like.

From day 1 I even asked if we could do a group buy on built bikes. He said we could do a frame build, and a group buy that way...I had no prior knowledge to the way these GBs work. So, I said ok, I for one want a built bike and I'm going to assume many others do, too. He said we'll work that out later. Time and time again I pushed for him to give me something to work with on the full build...time and time again he put it off. He gave me vague figures with no details and avoided the question...he told me we'd deal with it on an individual basis when the frames arrive. I told him that was fine if it was best, but I warned him that folks would be put off by that and would probably either opt out of the frame GB and/or just build it with other parts instead of waiting to find out if they'll get a good deal or not.

I wasn't lobbying for a good deal, just something concrete and not wishy washy. Of course it'd be nice to get a discount, but I just want to know the facts so I can get going. I was trying to help HIM, not myself. I can go get parts super cheap anywhere else, and for a very high quality. It was in his best interest to be up front about what he could do for us parts and build wise and that's all I was trying to get out of him.

Again, my mistake for assuming $350+ for the whole bike...that does seem ridiculously cheap, but $510+ (turned out to be $540) didn't seem like a reasonable discount, so I made an ass of myself.

All that is past. The fact now is that he still hasn't a) responded to e-mails b)responded to phone calls c) responded to this thread d) fixed the GB page e)given us an inkling of comfort that those who aren't in will get in on time.

How hard is it to check your vm or have someone do it for you or check your e-mail? Or check the site that you operate?!?!?!

Ziemas, BS on you. You're full of it, I know I'm right and that this deal is a big PITA. I should just spring for the discounted blue bike right now and be done! Same price anyways, which is another big "screw you."

[Ziemas]

Never had the line be busy...but it's 1 out of 20 calls that gets through. And 1 out of 50 e-mails that gets a response. I never get a call back.

FYI, I DID ask about a full build from a get go. The only thing I feel owed is honesty and clear cut communication. Tony has given me half-responses from day 1. I just wish you could have been there, because talking like you're doing, out of your arse that is, is presuming you know what my conversations with Tony have been like.

From day 1 I even asked if we could do a group buy on built bikes. He said we could do a frame build, and a group buy that way...I had no prior knowledge to the way these GBs work. So, I said ok, I for one want a built bike and I'm going to assume many others do, too. He said we'll work that out later. Time and time again I pushed for him to give me something to work with on the full build...time and time again he put it off. He gave me vague figures with no details and avoided the question...he told me we'd deal with it on an individual basis when the frames arrive. I told him that was fine if it was best, but I warned him that folks would be put off by that and would probably either opt out of the frame GB and/or just build it with other parts instead of waiting to find out if they'll get a good deal or not.

I wasn't lobbying for a good deal, just something concrete and not wishy washy. Of course it'd be nice to get a discount, but I just want to know the facts so I can get going. I was trying to help HIM, not myself. I can go get parts super cheap anywhere else, and for a very high quality. It was in his best interest to be up front about what he could do for us parts and build wise and that's all I was trying to get out of him.

Again, my mistake for assuming $350+ for the whole bike...that does seem ridiculously cheap, but $510+ (turned out to be $540) didn't seem like a reasonable discount, so I made an ass of myself.

All that is past. The fact now is that he still hasn't a) responded to e-mails b)responded to phone calls c) responded to this thread d) fixed the GB page e)given us an inkling of comfort that those who aren't in will get in on time.

How hard is it to check your vm or have someone do it for you or check your e-mail? Or check the site that you operate?!?!?!

Ziemas, BS on you. You're full of it, I know I'm right and that this deal is a big PITA. I should just spring for the discounted blue bike right now and be done! Same price anyways, which is another big "screw you."
Maybe there is a reason why your calls aren't returned. To hazard a guess I'd say it's your attitude and sense of entitlement.

As for Tony being shifty and unreliable your alleged experience is the exact opposite of just about every post I've read about IRO, and my own personal experiences.

From my personal dealings with Tony, others on this boards dealings with Tony which have been posted, and your attitude I'd defiantly say that you are the one who is unreliable and the problem.

If Tony is so bad where are all the other complaints about him? You seem to be the only one b!tching.....

[Elisdad]

I'm quite happy to be in on this group deal, and I'm anxiously waiting for more info regarding the status of the GB. I check my email several times a day in order to read all updates to this thread. It's a little painful to see this background "discussion" going on. Can you take it to PM please?

[climbhoser]

Last thing I want to say to you, Ziemas, is that I have plenty of e-mails of others who haven't been totally happy with Tony for a while. A few individuals who have been IRO customers for years who say that he has definitely changed recently and never returns their e-mails or phone calls either. They, as well, feel they've been shorted on customer service. You haven't heard about it because they, unlike myself, haven't posted it for the public.

But, the products are great and the price is right so they continue to purchase his stuff. And I can't argue with that. A superior product will always be that.

Even before this GB deal when I would write Tony with really general questions about sizing and parts it would take a barrage of e-mails before I would get an answer. Eventually he'd send me something glib and short, seeming like he never had the time to really care about how I would fit his bikes. But, again, the product and the price are right, so I kept on going. Customer service isn't the only part of the game.

I know he lost a child, so maybe things have changed for him and he doesn't have the energy or wherewithal to be the same cheery, happy go lucky bike guy he was before. I don't want to get into why I've been treated so poorly by IRO (including his Quasimoto-like assistant, Brad), but the facts are that I have been. And, Ziemas, you can think what you will but I have to reiterate that you haven't read my e-mail exchanges with Tony nor have you heard the calls...it's easy to jump in and speculate like you have about the quality of my character without knowing first hand. I've expressed some frustration here that might better have been kept to myself, but my reasoning is pretty sound.

You sound pretty eager beaver and in love with Tony. Maybe you should take over the GB. Let me know, I'll send you the e-mail list.

[mihlbach]

Sorry to point out the obvious, but showing some maturity and restraint in your public communications would also make for good business sense:rolleyes:
So Tony's laid back and not meticulous about answering messages. Some people have had better luck than others...we get it. Seems like most small bike-related companies are that way. I've never gotten responses from Kogswell or about a hundred other small companies to which I have made inquiries. I'm not that upset about it, nor do I feel the need to get self righteous about people who have difficulty dealing with it. I'd like mine in green please, with some yellow fenders:D

[climbhoser]

Matt,

I love reading this kind of crap on the 'net when I find it. Do I care if you don't or if you think it's childish? And besides, I'm not running a business nor am I being compensated on any of this. Stick it.

[mihlbach]

Matt,

I love reading this kind of crap on the 'net when I find it. Do I care if you don't or if you think it's childish? And besides, I'm not running a business nor am I being compensated on any of this. Stick it.

Chill man..its not solely directed at you...but more at the general vibe that this thread is taking. Everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. We all want the same thing.

[climbhoser]

Chill man..its not solely directed at you...but more at the general vibe that this thread is taking. Everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. We all want the same thing.

Not anymore we don't. I want a Kogswell.

[mihlbach]

Not anymore we don't. I want a Kogswell.

Somehow, I don't think you could get a Kogswell frame for $160.:p

[Grasschopper]

Um ok so I dont' want to sift through all the crap...did this get canceled? I tried going to it on the IRO page and while it lists a RR GB page there is then no info there.

But you can get a 20% discount currently......

[cnickgo]

Um ok so I dont' want to sift through all the crap...did this get canceled? I tried going to it on the IRO page and while it lists a RR GB page there is then no info there.

But you can get a 20% discount currently......

don't bother sifting... Bottom line is that the IRO guys are on vacation, and no-one has responded to emails and phone calls. My advice would be to sit and be patient and wait for the page to come back up or for an eventual response. If you are interested... just wait.

[climbhoser]

Somehow, I don't think you could get a Kogswell frame for $160.:p

Wow, pretty sharp there aren't ya! $540 is a small price to pay for a frame that comes with Kogswell customer service.

[mihlbach]

Wow, pretty sharp there aren't ya! $540 is a small price to pay for a frame that comes with Kogswell customer service.

For the same price I could be 3 RRs with the GB and if one broke, I'd have two more in reserve:)

[climbhoser]

For the same price I could be 3 RRs with the GB and if one broke, I'd have two more in reserve:)

that's cool...

[rocks in head]

Hey, umm, I hate to post after all that,
but,
Can we please be calm and collected when Tony finally does return (i.e. the first conversation you have with him)? I'm sure if you just politely ask him to extend the deadline since this happened that he'd do it. It's not like there's a deadline for getting the order in to the factory, or if there is I'd expect Tony to build in a few days to make sure everything runs smoothly. In any case he's probably not going to be doing anything while on vacation (I wouldn't).

It'd be a shame to bring on a confrontation and have both sides walk away from this, especially for the dozens who haven't yet put in their deposit. I'm still looking forward to my orange (YAY!) Rob Roy.

[dirtyphotons]

guys. this exact same thing happened with the other group buy, but they weren't on vacation at the time.

chill the **** out.

[climbhoser]

Dave,

I agree. I hate to get on anybody's bad side (although I like to stir the pot as much as anybody), but all I meant from the get go was for people to be treated fairly. I didn't know this had happened before, and FWIW thought tony would probably be accomodating, but fear/the sense of responsibility caused me to try and come up with a solution. I'm Type A, and I like control, so when things even think of spiralling out of control I start grabbing at straws. Asking folks to call and e-mail Tony was just that. It might work, it might just annoy him, and a side effect is that he knows that the system failure had people worried.

I don't like people to worry, so I was, as I said, grabbing at straws.

I'll stick to my guns forever that it's bad business, but if IRO's making it then it really doesn't matter. Like the cell-phone and computer companies that are just oh-so-accomodating we all keep buying and their customer service keeps sucking. In a free market economy it's not the most popular that wins, but the richest. It's just one of those things I valeu..being curteous.

Anyways...seriously, if someone wants to handle the group e-mailings let me know, I'd be happy to send the list.

[Ronsonic]

I've started a Sgt. Friday version of this thread. Just the facts, so whenever Tony gets to his email nobody will have to sift through this pile.

Please add any pertinent information I omitted.

If you've got opinions, commentary, personal issues, an overwhelming urge to run in panicky little circles flapping your fingers please let's keep it in this thread.

Ron

[dwainedibbly]

Would you guys STFU already & just get a room? Take the argument off-line. I'm tired of it.

[rocks in head]

So, months later, after all the drama...

There's no more Rob Roy on the IRO website.

dum dum dum...

aren't you all glad that you stuck it out and got the group buy frameset?