"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Crit cornering

First race coming up this weekend. I've been able to spend a lot of time riding with groups but haven't had a chance to work on speeding around the corners.
Thought it would be a good thing to work on for a few light days working up to the race... Any ideas, strategies or things that worked for you as you were developing your technique though the turns?

stay in the drops

A motorcycle helps a lot.

Anywho, try finding a tight downhill hairpin. It'll force you go through faster and learn to trust your lean angles. Also, don't be afraid to drop a few PSI for added grip. Practice, practice, practice.

Brake (if you must) before the turn, stay low, hold your line, inside pedal up, accelerate out of the turn.

Good cornering advice here:
http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/rzone.htm

I do alot of what the author calls "leaning" in crits, and countersteering on open roads, but definitely employ a mixture of methods described depending on where I am in the pack. Keep in mind the riders around you dictate your line, otherwise, fall down go boom.

Don't clip your pedals in the turn.

Put your weight on the inside drop and the outside pedal.

Put your weight on the inside drop and the outside pedal.

To add to that, putting you weight on the inside hand causes what is called "counter-steering" whereby your front wheel will be pointed less towards the center of the turn. This will cause your bike to lean into the turn more, allowing you to maintain greater speed throughout the turn.

I would add to put a significant amount of weight on your outside pedal. This will also help you maintain speed and stability.

To add to that, putting you weight on the inside hand causes what is called "counter-steering" whereby your front wheel will be pointed less towards the center of the turn. This will cause your bike to lean into the turn more, allowing you to maintain greater speed throughout the turn.

I would add to put a significant amount of weight on your outside pedal. This will also help you maintain speed and stability.

To add to that, make sure you yell "Inside! Inside!" and "Hold your line!" alternately, on every turn; it helps keep your center of gravity low.

Put your weight on the inside drop and the outside pedal.

^

all you need to know.

what i learned from my 1st crit:

-check out the course and look out for technical areas where either the road constricts or turns right-then-left or vice versa... you dont want to get boxed in- what will happen on curves or turns.. guys will dive into the turn to take the sharpest line.. which is ok if your in the middle or the outside... but then on the next turn you'll be on the inside with no place to go and get forced against the curb or barrier.
-protect your front wheel no matter what- even if you have to lean into or rub elbows with someone

-crashes happen... especially in cat5's... be prepared to fork up some $$$ if you run into some bad luck
-the main idea in your 1st races is just to survive and pick up some skills/experience...you'll learn what you need to do after your first few races

First race coming up this weekend. I've been able to spend a lot of time riding with groups but haven't had a chance to work on speeding around the corners.
Thought it would be a good thing to work on for a few light days working up to the race... Any ideas, strategies or things that worked for you as you were developing your technique though the turns?

Don't panic. Seriously I think at least half the crashes on the corners happen because people panic and start going wide. Also watch out for a pedal strike. You take corner sharply enough while pedaling, and if you are not careful inside pedal will hit the ground. At that point evil things will happen. Just relax, and follow the wheel in front of you. The inside of a turn can get very dicey, so if you are skittish try to stay on the outside of the group. Might not always works depending on crit layout.

Also watch out for a paddle strike.

I would hate to be struck by a paddle while cornering. That would be worse than a dog.

If its a four turn industrial the turns will be so slow you could pedal right through them but wont be able to because you will be coasting or breaking.

Can you find an empty parking lot to practice in ??

Rule #1, follow the wheel in front of you.

Don't clip your pedals in the turn.


seriously?

Also watch out for a peddle strike.When all the peddlers go on strike there will be nothing left for me to buy. ;)

Always look through the turn. Not at the ground. At the ground is too late.

Inside pedal UP. (by this, I mean: the pedal on the inside of the turn should be in the UP position.)

One turn through the corner. (by this, I mean: DO NOT make 7 or 8 little turns to get through the turn) Smooth is the rule.

Watch what others are doing. Don't ever think that you've found a better way because I guarantee that you haven't.

Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-Yrz7STy8

is there a "perfect" psi for cornering grip?

Rainsford said he once took out half the field on the first corner of an inner-city criterium coz his singles were at about 190psi! :p

Rainsford is a dickhead sometimes.

Eyes up and focus on where you want to go. Don't focus on things like curbs, cones and holes that you want to miss. Most of the time you will go where you look.


Andy

It takes longer than that to get good at turning. And, in most crits, people who can pedal through truns do a lot better than those that can't. I'd suggest going to an empty parking lot and settting up two water bottles about 20 feet apart. Do an increasingly fast figure eight around them. Stay in the drops, keep your weight low, lean the bike, and use your weight to counter-balance. Good luck.

It takes longer than that to get good at turning. And, in most crits, people who can pedal through truns do a lot better than those that can't. I'd suggest going to an empty parking lot and settting up two water bottles about 20 feet apart. Do an increasingly fast figure eight around them. Stay in the drops, keep your weight low, lean the bike, and use your weight to counter-balance. Good luck.

^^^^ Good advice. The harder version of ri_us' corner training involves cobblestones. You learn *fast* that way.

When all the peddlers go on strike there will be nothing left for me to buy. ;)

Thanks spelling nazi.

I would hate to be struck by a paddle while cornering. That would be worse than a dog.


Thanks spelling nazi.
Just following steaktaco's lead. :crash:

It takes longer than that to get good at turning. And, in most crits, people who can pedal through truns do a lot better than those that can't. I'd suggest going to an empty parking lot and settting up two water bottles about 20 feet apart. Do an increasingly fast figure eight around them. Stay in the drops, keep your weight low, lean the bike, and use your weight to counter-balance. Good luck.

A few times a year I'll pedal in circles or figure 8's until the pedals strike on the baseketball court. I think it's worth mentioning I don't ride on carbon pedals.

It is a worthwhile exercise because it and creates a lot of confidence and an intimate feel for how my bike handles. The consequences are quite minor and I've never fallen from doing this.

In fact, I've noticed that often I pedal-through more confidently to the right than I do to the left.

It's also a lot of fun. Don't get dizzy!

Always look through the turn. Not at the ground. At the ground is too late.

Inside pedal UP. (by this, I mean: the pedal on the inside of the turn should be in the UP position.)

One turn through the corner. (by this, I mean: DO NOT make 7 or 8 little turns to get through the turn) Smooth is the rule.

Watch what others are doing. Don't ever think that you've found a better way because I guarantee that you haven't.

Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-Yrz7STy8

Best advice so far.

I would only add, put all of your weight on the outside pedal. Push off off the outside pedal until your butt just starts to come off the saddle. Now all of your weight is concentrated on a point on your bicycle that is about 6 inches off the ground, making the bike much more stable.

Keep a very light, loose grip on the bars. You can survive bumping from other riders and hit some pretty big bumps in the road while leaned over and you won't fall as long as you are loose.

In the corner exit, stay in the saddle and start pedalling as soon as you possibly can while you are still leaned over. You can get a few pedal strokes in before everyone else starts pedalling which is a huge advantage.

To add to that, make sure you yell "Inside! Inside!" and "Hold your line!" alternately, on every turn...

+1

Otherwise you'll stand out of the pack and feel stupid.

Here's some resources that I've posted:
A Crit Primer (http://www.veloreview.com/obra3/2007/05/cat-6-corner-a-crit-primer.html/)
Countersteering Video (http://www.veloreview.com/obra3/2007/06/cat-6-mini-corner-countersteering.html/)
What to do (http://www.veloreview.com/obra3/2007/06/cat-6-corner-so-you-went-down.html/) if you go down
Technical Crit Video (http://www.veloreview.com/obra3/2007/08/vancouver-courthouse-crit-video.html/)

A few times a year I'll pedal in circles or figure 8's until the pedals strike on the baseketball court. I think it's worth mentioning I don't ride on carbon pedals.

It is a worthwhile exercise because it and creates a lot of confidence and an intimate feel for how my bike handles. The consequences are quite minor and I've never fallen from doing this.

In fact, I've noticed that often I pedal-through more confidently to the right than I do to the left.

It's also a lot of fun. Don't get dizzy!

+1 My pedals are all scarred from striking in corners, and I've never crashed from it. The lean angle to cause a strike is much lower than traction limits, so you're not going to slide out when you come down. Just relax. It can be a good way to learn what the limits are as the pack speeds up.

In a recent crit, I was pedaling through this one turn every lap with no problem. When I got into a break, we were going so much faster that I absolutely nailed my pedal. No problem -- just kept going.

I agree with those that say to follow the wheel in front of you. In 95% of the situations, this is exactly what you should do. Make sure to look ahead in the turn, and do everything smoothly.

+1 My pedals are all scarred from striking in corners, and I've never crashed from it.

I always thought the type of pedals help in this regard. My Quattros have a stainless skid plate on the side, it's usually what strikes and has never caused a crash or even a wobble.

There was one time though... bell lap, I was passing the flyer on turn 3 for the win. I was confident, pedaling through the right turn, then my wheel hit a tiny drop on the pavement and I bit it: my wheels slipped out from under me, but the down stroke of my right foot hit the ground full force and suplexed me the opposite direction.

That was one hell of a pedal strike. Lesson? It helps to know the terrain.

Thanks for all the great info, everyone. Tomorrow is the day.
Tire side down right?!

Thanks for all the great info, everyone. Tomorrow is the day.
Tire side down right?!

Yes. Unless you're executing a backflip to get past someone blocking you.

Thanks for all the great info, everyone. Tomorrow is the day.
Tire side down right?!Hey good luck!

Implicit in all the above messages is that crit-performance IS NOT so much about cornering as it is about pack-handling. The most important thing to keep in mind is how you ride relative to the other guys. The actual bike-handling technique, the course, knowing the course, navigating the course are very, very low on the list of importance. Voodoo said it best, FOLLOW THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU, aka, "hold your line". You want your wheels to track his path as precisely as possible. This one technique alone will get you to the end of the race where you can possibly contend for the win.

I've seen plenty of extremely strong athletes, runners, triathletes, swimmers, football players, etc. who were at the top of their fields come and try bike-racing and end up not even finishing races. They think they need more training, or better equipment or better bike-handling skills & technique. Nope, it's all in the mental strategies and tactics. It's a chess-game and the smartest player typically wins. Everyone in the pack is close to 5% to each other in fitness at the higher levels. The only difference between 1st and last place is mental strategy. The first and most important one to learn is to follow the guy in front of you precisely and exactly. You learn to pick out the strong players, find the guy that's going to finish 2nd after you, and follow him around the entire race. When he goes left, you go left. When he goes right, you go right. Good luck!

... You learn to pick out the strong players, find the guy that's going to finish 2nd after you, and follow him around the entire race. When he goes left, you go left. When he goes right, you go right. Good luck!

+bazillion

+bazillion

Damned guy I'm always following around knows it and goes to great lengths to make me feel like a turd for sitting on his wheel. Of course, since it's a race, he can suck my rusty chainstay. He often moves into spots I can't fit, but I always get back to him :D

Damned guy I'm always following around knows it and goes to great lengths to make me feel like a turd for sitting on his wheel. Of course, since it's a race, he can suck my rusty chainstay. He often moves into spots I can't fit, but I always get back to him :D

A lesson learnt from many yrs of racin, The only thing more dispised than a wheel sucker is a wheel sucker with a sprint :D

Rainsford is a dickhead sometimes.

Sometimes????


Lol....:)

Pedal harder or, barring that, pedal faster than everyone else....sure course to victory.
No but really, I think the advice has been right on...stay smooth and stay aware and also as relaxed as possible.
Here is something that worked really well for me the last couple crits I did:
following the guy in front of me into the corner, I coast for a bit about 40 feet before the corner, allowing a litle gap to form. Then, I give a couple strong cranks going into the corner (before apex) which gives a little acceleration coming out of the corner. I find that, when I get it just right, I am smoother and use a lot less energy, while matching the acceleration out of the corner of the guy in front of me.
The feeling is one of "pushing" into the corner...feels weird at first, but pretty cool...mainly because I hate all the slow-down-hammer-out-of-the-corners routine of crits......

Lots of good advice in this thread.

I'd just add, anticipate the acceleration coming out of the corner. Gear down as you slow entering the corner. If you can let just a very small amount of room develop between you and the wheel in front of you, you can begin accelerating out of the turn sooner (moving into the space you left), making it much easier to cope with the repeated jumps out of every corner.

Lots of good advice in this thread.

I'd just add, anticipate the acceleration coming out of the corner. Gear down as you slow entering the corner. If you can let just a very small amount of room develop between you and the wheel in front of you, you can begin accelerating out of the turn sooner (moving into the space you left), making it much easier to cope with the repeated jumps out of every corner.

To add to that: if your at the butt-end of the pack, just drop back 3 or 4 bike lengths.

Why? The back of the pack will slow to a stop by the time they reach the corner, and then come out having to sprint back up to the group from a standstill. With enough space in front, you can take the corner without slowing down. Of course when you get back together, you'd still be in the same spot; but that's just one more jump you saved for later.

Same goes for short climbs. You could almost coast up to the top.

Lots of good advice in this thread.

I'd just add, anticipate the acceleration coming out of the corner. Gear down as you slow entering the corner. If you can let just a very small amount of room develop between you and the wheel in front of you, you can begin accelerating out of the turn sooner (moving into the space you left), making it much easier to cope with the repeated jumps out of every corner.

Along these lines, one thing I've done in crits when I get briefly forced into the front, is go fairly slow through the corner, then sprint out of it hard. It really tenderizes the guys at the back, and opens up some gaps for me to drop back into the top 10 without actually doing any pulling.

Along these lines, one thing I've done in crits when I get briefly forced into the front, is go fairly slow through the corner, then sprint out of it hard. It really tenderizes the guys at the back, and opens up some gaps for me to drop back into the top 10 without actually doing any pulling.

I like to yell "SLOWING!" to really throw people off.

I like to yell "SLOWING!" to really throw people off.

"RIGHT turn!"

To get full speed through a corner, go outside-inside-outside, not inside-outside and definitely not inside-inside

Follow?

" Also, don't be afraid to drop a few PSI for added grip. "

what PSI would you recommend?

the PSI would depend on what you normally run. If you run max for your tires, then drop it maybe 10 PSI...

I've gone as low as 80psi for a crit before because of a long downhill with a corner at the bottom. Cornered like a scared cat on carpet.

I always run my tires at the same PSI (110 front/120 rear), except in TT's. Why? They're more predictable (to me).

I had a heck of a time getting better at cornering in the earlier races this year, but am that much better for it right now.

Most of what I ended up doing to fix it has already been mentioned, but i'll reiterate.

1) Stay in drops. Always. (In a crit!)
2) Keep inside pedal up when cornering. Always! (I have scars to back this one up)
3) Memorize this. Outside-inside-outside.
4) Brake before a corner, *NOT* in the corner (this causes you to lose traction)
5) I find it helps if I accelerate through the last half of the corner.
6) Weight on pedals as said before, but I haven't had a problem with this as long as I do #1.
7) This list is too long.

Go. Fight. Win!