Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit in half for two people?

I'm thinking about buying a new lock, and was considering going with Kryptonite's Fahgettaboudit chain lock. Only drawback is the obvious weight issue. Three feet is way more chain than i need, and way more weight than i want to deal with. Cutting it in half, though, would give me a more sensibly sized chain at half the weight. As a bonus, my gf was considering upgrading her lock, so we'd be looking at around $70 (chain) + $30 (2nd disc lock) = $100 / 2 = $50 each.
My concern is that the lock might be too short at that point. 18" doesn't seem like a bad size at all, unless the links are too bulky (which they could be from what i've seen).
Does anyone with the above chain know if something like this is feasible? Will i end up with something too small? If so, i may consider doing the same thing with the 5'... the difference (same math) would only be roughly ten bucks each, and we'd have more size options.

Furthermore, what sort of tools are needed to cut a link?

might as well buy hardware store chain if you're gonna do that. i'm sure you'd be able to call around and find a shop that carries similar gauge links.

A fat bolt cutter..but to be honest if u can cut the link obviously its means that the lock aint safe. Use as much lock as possible is a safe bet.

For that much coin, the two of you could just get matching u locks.

might as well buy hardware store chain if you're gonna do that. i'm sure you'd be able to call around and find a shop that carries similar gauge links.
Hardware shop? Would i be able to find something like that?
I don't know from metals, but "11mm six-sided, hexagonal chain links made of triple heat-treated boron manganese steel" sounds like something pretty specific..

just swing by your local ace hardware and ask. if they do have it, then ****, you'll have saved some cash. if they don't, then buy a 4' bolt cutter and get on your way to the bike shop.

I use a krypto chain shortened to about 18", it works well, like a big flexible Ulock. I use a padlock though not the disc thingie

Good call. Hrm, i wonder if i can find something even harder...

just swing by your local ace hardware and ask. if they do have it, then ****, you'll have saved some cash. if they don't, then buy a 4' bolt cutter and get on your way to the bike shop.

the 4' bolt cutters were the best those nutcases from that youtube video could do for "hand" tools to break a chain. Their own product can be severed with a hammer & anvil in just a few seconds. The easiest way to shorten a chain is to use a powertool.

just swing by your local ace hardware and ask. if they do have it, then ****, you'll have saved some cash. if they don't, then buy a 4' bolt cutter and get on your way to the bike shop.

lol...have you ever been to a hardware store?
first off...they WONT have chain like kryptonite uses. kryptonite MAKES that chain themselves.
secondly, a good 4" bolt cutter costs about 150 bucks.

the more lock the better...u dont need something harderrrr. In the Kryptonite site U-Lock got a higher rating I think. Go have a check.

A U-Lock around the rear wheel and seatube also laced a Kryptonite cable lock that lock the front wheel wis more than enough IMO.

might as well buy hardware store chain if you're gonna do that. i'm sure you'd be able to call around and find a shop that carries similar gauge links.

No...bad idea. The Krypto's not uncuttable but a hardware store chain is going to cut much more easily.

Just because you can take a Krypto chain to a bandsaw to cut it to length doesn't mean it's useless on the street.

ok, without creating what shouldn't (but prolly will) become a flame war, does anyone have any opinions about a cut-down 18" new york chain vs the smallest new york u-lock? i like the idea of the chain as it's not restricted by the structure of the u. Kryptonite rates both as a 12 (highest rating). i don't see how a LONGER lock is more secure, as once you break one link, no matter how many times it's wrapped, the chain is compromised-- right?
or am i missing something?

*i said shorter, changed to LONGER

more possibility of getting leverage on it if its longer and can be held against the ground.

more chain slack means an easier product to work with.

as far as the chain goes, if these guys want to believe that kryptonite somehow has the budget to make the most secure chain link in the world, then so be it. but i know for a fact that chain link, stronger, safer, and cheaper is out there, and if your local big box doesn't carry it, then at least a knowledgeable salesman ought to be able to tell you where you could find such a product in town.

might as well buy hardware store chain if you're gonna do that. i'm sure you'd be able to call around and find a shop that carries similar gauge links.

Hahahahaha.

No.

You can't buy chains that strong in a hardware store. That's why companies like Krypto and Abus exist in the first place.



As to cutting it in half, it's still gonna be pretty heavy and not as versatile. Dunno. I'd definitely get U-locks before doing what you're proposing.


Edit: as to the safenes comparison, if they have similar lock mechainsm and the chain links are at least as thick as the U, then the chain is marginally safer as it's less prone to leverage attacks.
I'm quite convinced that the difference is not relevant in the real world as nobody's gonna **** with your NY U anyway; or if you attract somebody determined enough to open a NY, then the chain ain't gonna stop the same person either.

more chain slack means an easier product to work with.

as far as the chain goes, if these guys want to believe that kryptonite somehow has the budget to make the most secure chain link in the world, then so be it. but i know for a fact that chain link, stronger, safer, and cheaper is out there, and if your local big box doesn't carry it, then at least a knowledgeable salesman ought to be able to tell you where you could find such a product in town.

This post couldn't get any more false if you tried.

more chain slack means an easier product to work with.

as far as the chain goes, if these guys want to believe that kryptonite somehow has the budget to make the most secure chain link in the world, then so be it. but i know for a fact that chain link, stronger, safer, and cheaper is out there, and if your local big box doesn't carry it, then at least a knowledgeable salesman ought to be able to tell you where you could find such a product in town.

OK, you've got me curious. What's the working load limit of Krypto chain? The strongest my old hardware store ever carried was a 6600# 3/8 chain that I could cut through with a pneumatic cutter in about 30 seconds. It was heavy as hell also. My new spot doesn't carry ****. We've got some 3/8 chain, but it would be garbage for this application.

god.

kryptonite chain is not lifting chain people!!! do you guys even know what makes kryptonite chain strong?! it's not what it's made of! it's how its shaped!

square chain = hard to cut
round chain = easy to cut

what you need to find is a squared off (ie, not round) chain of reasonably strong material. THIS EXISTS ON THE MARKET OUTSIDE OF OVERPRICED BIKE PRODUCTS.

honestly people. does it really matter that much if KRYPTONITE is not branded around your waist?

I use a krypto chain shortened to about 18", it works well, like a big flexible Ulock.

What did you use to cut it?

god.

kryptonite chain is not lifting chain people!!! do you guys even know what makes kryptonite chain strong?! it's not what it's made of! it's how its shaped!

square chain = hard to cut
round chain = easy to cut

what you need to find is a squared off (ie, not round) chain of reasonably strong material. THIS EXISTS ON THE MARKET OUTSIDE OF OVERPRICED BIKE PRODUCTS.

honestly people. does it really matter that much if KRYPTONITE is not branded around your waist?

OK then. Do you have a source that proves that square chain is harder to cut? I'm not trying to call you out on this, I've just heard quite a few people say it and haven't ever seen any hard data.

And then after that, have you ever actually been to a hardware store that stocks square chain? I've worked in 4 different spots at some point, and spent a ton of time wandering around my competitors and haven't ever seen anyone that stocks the square stuff.

It seems like a square would be harder to cut through unless you turned it 45 degrees so you wear starting the cut at a point.

as far as the chain goes, if these guys want to believe that kryptonite somehow has the budget to make the most secure chain link in the world, then so be it.

If there is chain link that is stronger, safer, and cheaper, it is probably also made by Ingersoll Rand, the owners of Kryptonite.

A few years back i bought some chain, nickel plated and slaped a beefy looking lock in it





It worked untill someone stole it(the key was in it hanging in my garage)


The bloke at the hard ware store and to stand/jump on the hydraulic chian cutter to cut the chain that was good enough for me

Go to a hardware store that carries a variety of chain. Get the stuff they use for tow trucks/fasten down cars. Last time I bought some it was about $4 per foot. It's not ridiculously large. The stuff is hard. It ruins bolt cutters. They'll probably use an angle grinder to cut you a piece, or they'll get the lowest man on the totem pole to take a hacksaw to it. He'll be there for twenty minutes, and pretty pissed off when he's done.

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning why round chain is any easier to cut than square/polygon shaped. I'm willing to bet the biggest factor is plain old hardness and thickness.

Seriously, just get a U-lock. For what it's going to cost each of you to have a big chunky chain that you'll have to put in your bag, you could buy a pocket u-lock and a really decent cable lock. As is mentioned in the locking tutorial (I forget where it's posted, but I'm sure someone knows), if you have two different kinds of locks, you're way safer than one strong lock. The tools to bust a U-lock vs a cable lock are totally different, so you greatly reduce your chances of getting clipped by making it way harder to open your locks.

+1 on the tow chain aspect. A lot cheaper than a krypto.

FYI: the Fahgettaboudit is not a square chain, the links are six sided.

god.

kryptonite chain is not lifting chain people!!! do you guys even know what makes kryptonite chain strong?! it's not what it's made of! it's how its shaped!

square chain = hard to cut
round chain = easy to cut

what you need to find is a squared off (ie, not round) chain of reasonably strong material. THIS EXISTS ON THE MARKET OUTSIDE OF OVERPRICED BIKE PRODUCTS.

honestly people. does it really matter that much if KRYPTONITE is not branded around your waist?

Okay, I guess the next question is what do you use for locking your bike, and do you have any links to this amazing chain that's available for cheaper?

Square/hexagonal links are better because they dull the blade of bolt cutters and such as the initital point of contact is tiny. (According to Krypto)

Hardware store chains are inferior as they're designed to be strong (hard to tear and snap), not hard to cut (i.e. hardened and hexagonal and whatnot).

All the above is my modestly researched opinion. Kill me if I'm wrong.

A hacksaw with the right blade and a bundle of time will get through anything.

For starters try

www.mcmaster.com

item numbers:
36015T4 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=chain&FT_158=133792&FT_147=60655&FT_1415=115989&FT_189=125590&FT_294=133763&FT_3160=143878&FT_413=19365&FT_516=133765&FT_518=52165&FT_3150=199273&FT_305=20382&FT_525=20461&FT_527=20522&FT_526=20628&FT_4547=199288&ppe=2&session=chain,158=133792,147=60655,189=125590,294=133763,3160=143878,413=19365,516=133765,518=52165, 3150=199273;1415=115989;M;I)
36015T3 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=chain&FT_158=133792&FT_147=60655&FT_1415=115989&FT_189=125590&FT_294=133763&FT_3160=143878&FT_413=19365&FT_516=133765&FT_518=52165&FT_3150=199273&FT_305=20383&FT_525=199275&FT_527=199326&FT_526=199384&FT_4547=199282&ppe=2&session=chain,158=133792,147=60655,189=125590,294=133763,3160=143878,413=19365,516=133765,518=52165, 3150=199273;1415=115989;M;I)

To protect you paint you can make your own sleeve for the chain with an old tube or sew your own or order one from places like http://web.mac.com/chicagowig/iWeb/www.chicagowig.com/cityskin%20.html

When you pick out a padlock try to get one that has as little space left in the shackle as possible when you have it locked with the chain.

Diamond bit blade, It's 2 ton cut force. But 3 feet is not long once you lock up, neither is 7 lbs heavy.
NYPD would love to help cut it!!! Good luck.

It occurs to me that the initial point of contact on a round chain is also tiny.

In the end, it comes down to having a chain of sufficiently hardened steel.

The best chains from Kryptonite are about ten or twenty times harder to cut than any chain you would find at a corner hardware store. I would not use hardward chains for a bike worth more than $20. And, even with a hardware chain, you would still need to buy a top quality padlock, and few hardware stores will have a padlock as good as the best Kryptonite padlock.

The Fahgettaboudit U-lock is lighter and more compact than a chain of equal quality. A chain only makes sense if you park in neighborhoods where every suitable locking pole is too big for a u-lock.

What kind of padlock would one use with a chain? Seems to me that any padlock would be the weak point and a thief would be wise to go after that - which means that the chain doesn't matter?

Someone educate me, please. ;)

The best chains from Kryptonite are about ten or twenty times harder to cut than any chain you would find at a corner hardware store.

Proof? I could buy that they're harder than some, perhaps even most, but any?

Consider this. Any particular hardware store may carry chain for mission critical applications, where significant monetary investments or even lives are at stake. Applications much more critical than holding a bicycle to a post. Such chain does indeed exist. It's commonly available, and not even very expensive. The trick only lies in being able to identify the right stuff.

I have no doubt that Kryptonite chains are decent products. But to suggest that they are uniquely strong and well suited to their typical application seems to overstate the case.

What kind of padlock would one use with a chain? Seems to me that any padlock would be the weak point and a thief would be wise to go after that - which means that the chain doesn't matter?

Definitely.

There are some nice locks I've seen with shrouded shackles, making it difficult for things like bolt cutters to bite. Still, they are not impervious to power tools or even hack saws. Some locks are opened by simple brute force.

werd! plazma cutter

This thread interests me because I already use a kryptonite U Lock and am looking for an inexpensive but effective second lock to use in conjunction with the U Lock.

I'm interested in some hardware store chain but I don't know what kind of padlock to attach to it. That www.mcmaster.com link has some interesting options for chains, but again I ask - what padlock should I use?

Buy this CHEAP Krypto chain and quit yer whining.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000102&subcategory=60001120&brand=&sku=15168&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Locks

I just weighed mine an even 2 lbs.

For the price, buy two each for you and your girl. If someone wants your bike, they'll get it. Cable locks are next to useless. Carrying around a lock that weighs half as much as your bike is a bit ridiculous as well

sorta why i'm talking about cutting it in half...

get the "new york noose". it is far shorter and lighter than the behemoth 3 footer one. then use a small U to lock the back wheel.

I'm in the same position, building up a set of suzue promaxes to open pro CDs and i'm pretty worried about wheel theft. I might just get 2 mini-U

How to cut the fuggetaboutit?

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/28260/Kryptonite-questions-methods-used-in-lock-break-TV-show

I cut a few links off of my fahgettboudit with a cheap cutting wheel for my standard drill. Because I couldn't apply force downward as one can with a proper angle grinder, it took significantly longer than it could have, but I still got through both sides of the link in about 7 minutes.

The reason one uses chain to lock a bike, is this:




both the locks pictured above were broken apart when the thief used the bike as the lever, and twisted the locks apart. U locks are solid, there is no flex, there is a point where they cannot handle twisting or leverage any more.

Now take a loop of hefty chain and lock it to to a solid bike rack. Try to twist it apart, not happening because the links can move and flex and are designed for such loads.



now some of you are all upset about the weight of chains. Its not a big deal, you loop it around your waist like us old messengers have been doing for the last 30 years. You dont notice the weight and its quite comfortable. Now you are NOT limited to parking meter post, your NOT limited to flimsy bike racks. You can lock up to big thick metal lamposts, bridge railings, etc, and have plenty of room to lock your wheels (both), the frame as well as the metal railing your locking to.

I can tell you from interviews with bike thieves by local police, that the average tool carried by a thief is a simple cable cutter or hammer. They use stuff they find on the scene, stuff like 2x4's, pipe to wedge apart U locks. Most locks are broken by striking downwards then upwards, then downwards again, breaking the lock body from the shackle. Equip your chain lock (MINIMUM 10mm links) with a all steel heavily shrouded lock, and dont use the mini U locks. There is a space in the mini U locks that a pipe can be inserted into and the lock forced open. FILL that space with chain link, make it as small as possible.

Now if your going to go the DIY route, look for the following chains:

Medium Security: Grade 70, 3/8" link, yellow dichromate coated transport chain.


High security: Grade 70, 1/2" or 5/8" link, yellow dichromate coated transport chain

Extreme high security: Grade 100 proof tested , 5/8" links overhead lifting chain ,25% stronger than grade 80, and extremely difficult to get a bolt cutter head around the links.


if i can carry around 4 feet of 1/2" chain, with a 3lb shrouded padlock, anyone can carry the standard 3/8" link chain around....

curious what you all think about the design of the "new york noose" locks...

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1002&pid=1195

I like the noose design, you can cinch up the loop around a stationary object, and loop the rest around the frame and wheel before locking (kinda like a "8").

since someone asked:

i use a square security chain i purchased off of mcmaster.com in conjunction with a nyc faghettaboutit ulock. over kill? perhaps. but seems everyone and their brother has had their bike stole and i for one, do not want to be of that group.

btw: any chicago residents will want to travel up to the evanston police department if they're interested in either nyc or kryp evo mini's. they sell them AT COST.

my total expenditure for my chain and u lock was about $50.