I've recently started to work with a dietitian and a trainer to come up with a sustainable plan to get me through the winter and to get a bunch of weight off. It has been educational and very interesting to see how both have responded to me. FWIW I'm very happy with both choices so don't get me wrong in my comments. The Dietitian used the standard scales/tables and came up with a weight for me that to me seemed very low. The trainer sent me off to actually have my body fat measured and interestingly my current lean mass is almost 30lbs higher than the ideal weight from the dietitian. So I would have to lose muscle mass to achieve the ideal weight from the tables ! On the other hand the dietitian actually measured my resting calorie burn twice to get a good baseline for the calories that I need to burn just to exist (my base metabolism is surprisingly high -- so much for the slow metabolism theory for overweight people) the trainer used a table and told me what the same number should be (as a reference not a diet recommendation ) and it was about 500 calories a day higher than the dietitian - folks that's a pound a week if I just ate that recommended amount of calories. I also believe that is the same number that my GP gave me a few months ago. So if I had followed the advice from my GP and/or the trainer and cut 500 calories a day or added 500 calories a day of exercise I would be almost even and NOT losing weight. Of course neither one can comprehend a fast moving clyde on a bike neither one understands that as an obese person that I am actually above the curve on the cardiovascular/aerobic side.
Shog
Tom Stormcrowe
08-16-07, 09:44 AM
The tables are based off of statistical averages. I've said this before, but we're all custom order bodies gtenetically seaking because we inherit factors from 2 sets of genes, and tweaking of the standard statistical model is often required. It's a start point baseline I use and then adjust according to my individual needs and physiological quirks. There are no absolutes in how we all process foods and activity, just general trends.
joelpalmer
08-16-07, 10:07 AM
I'll second that. When I was working with a trainer she asked what my goal weight was after doing the BF% pinch test and calculating lean body mass for me, to see if what I wanted and what my body is built for make sense. My brother and I have very different builds but almost identical heights. He ways between 170 and 180. If I drop to 15% BF I will weigh 200. So any sort of generalized chart or the ridiculous and discredited BMI will always list me as overweight/obese. I would have to get into to 5-7% BF range or lose muscle (a lot of it) to get to "ideal" body weight.
My take away from all of this is that rather than looking at the scale I look at the BF monitor. I don't care if I weigh a lot, if I've gotten the fat under control I'm good.
joelpalmer
08-16-07, 10:08 AM
oh, before anyone says it - i know you need to regulate your hydration to use home BF monitors or you get wacky numbers. it's all about same time of day and the trend rather than the actual number (down is good)
rjm1982
08-16-07, 10:25 AM
Well, if you believe BMI than Brad Pitt is overweight and George Cloony is obese.
Tom Stormcrowe
08-16-07, 10:28 AM
Well, if you believe BMI than Brad Pitt is overweight and George Cloony is obese.
BMI is a statistical standard applied by the Insurance industry as a tool to increase rates based off of a perception of higher risk. It's a tool that we can use as long as we consider other factors as well, such as lean muscle mass, aerobic capacity, resting and max sustainable HR. There isn't one SINGLE tool for us to use, but in combination with all the other tools, we can arrive at a tweak that will work on the individual basis.
shog
08-16-07, 10:34 AM
Tom came close to what I am trying to say. We are all different and unfortunately a lot of current "guidelines" may not work for you. Maybe you are average and the tables will work perfectly for you but chances are you are different. I see people come the this board and others saying - I have cut 500 calories or I am down to XXX lbs and I'm not losing. Maybe the problem is you're target(s) is/are wrong maybe your ideal weight is higher or lower than you think, maybe your resting metabolism is higher or lower than you think. Personally it's nice to know some hard numbers for myself it gives me something to measure against and let's me know I am going the right direction. I have just enough type A inside of me that I need to know this.
Shog
ken cummings
08-16-07, 10:49 AM
Reminds me of a friend who went for an employment physical. The doctor just looked at the papers and sneered, "You're 50 pounds over-weight." My pal, a professinal body-builder with minimal body fat, replyed to the chubby doctor, "I am not fat, you are." Your situation is why I moved from my old doctor to an expert in sports medicine.
webist
08-16-07, 11:42 AM
Reminds me of a friend who went for an employment physical. The doctor just looked at the papers and sneered, "You're 50 pounds over-weight." My pal, a professinal body-builder with minimal body fat, replyed to the chubby doctor, "I am not fat, you are." Your situation is why I moved from my old doctor to an expert in sports medicine.
But..which doctor's opinion fits into the little square for a number that the insurance company is looking for?:(