View Full Version : Buying new bikes = materialism?
iain.dalton
08-16-07, 10:25 AM
Lately I've been planning to buy a touring bike (Surly LHT), which I'll have to buy new. I don't buy new when I can avoid it. I think the urge to buy new is a form of materialism. By using a bike instead of a car, I already avoid a form of materialism (the thought that every person must have a car). Yet, people show off pictures of their bikes, which seems materialistic (though I'm not criticizing them). Am I succumbing to materialism by wanting this new bike? Technically, I could buy a longer stem for my too-small bike, and a new drivetrain, and while it's not much of a tourer, people have toured on everything, so I could make do with what I have.
So what do you think? Do you extend antimaterialism even to your bike?
timmhaan
08-16-07, 10:30 AM
you have to think in degrees. everyone is materialistic to some degree...otherwise we'd all be wearing used trash bags for clothes, sleeping under the stars, and eating out of trash cans.
you have to figure it out for yourself. if you feel it's too materialistic for you, then think of ways to improve your existing bike. being frugal is fun sometimes, but it's also fun to treat yourself to something new once in a while.
Heyduke
08-16-07, 10:38 AM
What timmhaan said +
It sounds like a larger bike is what you need and by not owning a car, you're 'offsetting' some materialism and creating a material deficit for yourself. (Yeah, this is my own brand of environmental Karma so bear with me.)
My solution to your issue would be to buy a good, larger USED bicycle or build one up for yerself using USED parts. You'd get something new to you and not pay the mark up of something brand new from a LBS or online. And the learning experience is priceless. Donate your old bike or what's left after you use parts from it and you'll help someone else out down the road...
Just my 2 thoughs...
It all works out....
I like old stuff. But once upon a time all that old stuff was new and shiny, fresh from the factory.
I fished out a fine 1960's vintage Sears 3-speed from my apartment's dumpster yesterday. Looks like it's been kept indoors for all that time. It has a Brooks saddle.
Edit: Rats, looking at it in daylight the saddle turned out to be San Marco, not Brooks. Looked an awful lot like a Brooks though.
Artkansas
08-16-07, 11:12 AM
I think your concern is too much. We all live in the material world. To do what we need to do requires physical items. You conserve when you can. No one is perfect. Materialism is generally when you become preoccupied with having things.
Obviously, your focus is not a big fancy bike to impress your neighbors. It's that you want to do touring and see the Surly as the best tool for the job. Yes, people have done cross-country tours on older bikes even pennyfarthings, but that doesn't mean that you must.
What you need is an economic analysis of the bike. A new stem, easy. A new drivetrain? And after all that work and effort you will still have a poor touring bike? A professional spends more on their tools because they know that the better tool does the better job. In the middle of the desert you will not be sorry to be riding on a bike that you have confidence in, one that carries all your possessions well and has the gears you need to climb the rockies, and has a seat you can ride on day after day.
Actually to be trying so hard to preserve the old bike is a form of materialism. You are putting that above your need for a bike suited to cross the country comfortably. Keep the old one and use it for a utility bike.
I'm not at all against keeping up old bikes. I have a '73 Nishiki/American Eagle that has seen several generations of components. Its my old rugged commuter.
I could do my current commute on it, and I have. But its not set up well for my current commute. My current commute has too many hills for its 10-speed gearing. So I got a newer bike(only 15 years old), a mountain bike that I modified for street use. Now it's perfectly suited for my current commute.
But I also just bought a brand new bike. It was hard to find an older one of the type I wanted, and by doing it, I extended my network socially.
Don't be afraid to get the right tool for the job.
I like old stuff. But once upon a time all that old stuff was new and shiny, fresh from the factory.
I fished out a fine 1960's vintage Sears 3-speed from my apartment's dumpster yesterday. Looks like it's been kept indoors for all that time. It has a Brooks saddle.
WOW! Great find. Hey, if it is the Sears 3-speed that I am thinking of, it is European made - I think in Austria to be exact. THEY ARE EXTRAORDINARILY EXCELLENT BICYCLES. Probably because of the Sears name, they are overlooked by collectors, but I think you will find the quality to meet or exceed even Raleigh 3-speeds. Plus you got a Brooks saddle? Congratulations.
There you have it for materialism - junk pickin' some great stuff to be materialistic with.
AStomper
08-16-07, 11:37 AM
I believe materialism to be showing what your social status is with an ITEM. I have a friend that has bought 2 USED mustangs to do this. Is your definition of materialism the same as mine? Would you be buying this bike to show your friends how important you are?
WOW! Great find. Hey, if it is the Sears 3-speed that I am thinking of, it is European made - I think in Austria to be exact.
That's the one, the badge says "Made in Austria". You're right that a person can be materialistic about old stuff even when it's fished out of a dumpster. So wanting something new, like the OP, isn't necessarily any more materialistic.
Hobartlemagne
08-16-07, 11:53 AM
Just buy whatever you reeeeeeally desire, then hit yourself with this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e5/Cat_o%27_nine.JPG/800px-Cat_o%27_nine.JPG
Everything will even out in the end.
discosaurus
08-16-07, 12:15 PM
So what do you think? Do you extend antimaterialism even to your bike?
No. I own two bikes, both purchased new in the last few years. I buy almost everything used otherwise, and bikes are (for me, at least) a statement against materialism on other terms. So even if they are brand new (and even if i bought new bikes often, which i don't!) they are still part of my opt-out of consumer culture.
lyeinyoureye
08-16-07, 01:16 PM
Buying new bikes = expensive. Materialism has more to do w/ spiritual versus physical than new versus used. I've always seen materialism as action, and anti-materialism as thought.
jamesdenver
08-16-07, 01:23 PM
Everyone needs hobbies. Hobbies are by nature materialistic. Unless your hobby is growing your own vegatables or something.
As long as it's in check and doesn't consume your life or make you greedy I say have at whatever suits your fancy. I like flying airplanes. There's nothing productive about punching holes in the sky on Saturday afternoons, but it's a skill I enjoy having.
Even though it's "car-free" there's some folks that enjoy tinkering and fixing up old cars. That's a lot different than the reasons we're car free (abstaining for car dependency reasons)
Have at your hobby.
Bikepacker67
08-16-07, 02:43 PM
I'd love to buy/find used, but I can never find anything in my size (at a min, I need a 58cm, but prefer a 60cm)
Fredmertz51
08-16-07, 02:52 PM
Lately I've been planning to buy a touring bike (Surly LHT), which I'll have to buy new. I don't buy new when I can avoid it. I think the urge to buy new is a form of materialism. By using a bike instead of a car, I already avoid a form of materialism (the thought that every person must have a car). Yet, people show off pictures of their bikes, which seems materialistic (though I'm not criticizing them). Am I succumbing to materialism by wanting this new bike? Technically, I could buy a longer stem for my too-small bike, and a new drivetrain, and while it's not much of a tourer, people have toured on everything, so I could make do with what I have.
So what do you think? Do you extend antimaterialism even to your bike?If you needed a 5mm allen wrench, you could find an old piece of steel and hammer it into a servicable wrench after a couple of hours,assuming you had the correct hammer, or you could search garage sales for weeks to find a used one, or just go buy a 5mm wrench at a hardware store. A bicycle is a tool that will last a long time. Good tools are not materialistic.
a bicycle is a tool that will last a long time
Well, of course, with a $2000 bicycle you can easily bust $1000+ worth of parts in 10 years.
I think you'd depriving yourself a bit too much if you can afford a good touring bike that fits you well, and you want to go touring, and what you have is a non-touring bike that doesn't fit well.
You can get a nice used touring bike for far less than a new Surly LHT, but I agree that if you want a Surly LHT you can't expect to find a good used one. I encourage you to think carefully about why you'd consider the LHT to be better for you than a used bike. Marketers will try to convince you that a Surly and a Trek and a Giant, etc. are different in ways that go beyond accessories, components, and frame features. But really, if it's got the rack mounts, tire clearance, whatever then the different brands are basically the same.
From what you've said, it sounds like your current bike is not suitable though. The cost of a big retrofit might be more than the cost of a used bike that fits you and your needs better.
That's the one, the badge says "Made in Austria". You're right that a person can be materialistic about old stuff even when it's fished out of a dumpster. So wanting something new, like the OP, isn't necessarily any more materialistic.
Yup. Nice machine, your Austrian made Sears 3-speed. Sears did stumble upon some pretty good stuff. I think they had good buyers back in the day.
Sears also brought the Spaceliner to the forefront back in the very early 1960's. That is a neat bike and somewhat revolutionary in a world of fat-tires with faux gas tanks.
Cheers!
wahoonc
08-16-07, 05:45 PM
Dunno if new bikes constitute materialism or not...I have been accused of hoarding tho...'cause I have 16 ridable bikes:rolleyes: But I look on a bike as a tool and there is more to tools than just basic function. There is nothing wrong with a tool that fits you and looks good too. I have a pretty substantial wood working tool collection many of the tools are from the early 1900's and they are not only functional but feel right in the hand and are attractive to look at.
Besides someone has to buy the new bikes so I can get good deals on the used ones:D
Aaron:)
CommuterRun
08-16-07, 06:39 PM
I think you're overly concerned about materialism. Everything is bad if taken to extremes.
It's one bike. If it were your tenth bike, then yeah, I may think this was a legitimate concern. If the Surly fits you properly, then buy the bike so you'll have one that does fit.
I would also sell the too small old bike and buy a second bike. Since, like everything else mechanical, they do break down. Particularly since you are car free.
Reacker
08-16-07, 06:47 PM
Besides someone has to buy the new bikes so I can get good deals on the used ones:D
Aaron:)
Further than that, if no one ever buys new bikes, than no bikes will be made in the first place. Surely it must be much more economically and environmentally friendly to have a factory that is tuned to efficiently produce bikes than it is for everyone to go and make there own bike, undoubtedly making mistakes in the process and causing waste while they are figuring out how to build a bike for the first time.
Newspaperguy
08-16-07, 07:49 PM
A year and a half ago, my bike was stolen. It was 17 years old and was still in great shape. I had a mountain bike of about the same vintage which had been given to me a few months earlier. I was able to fix it and make it rideable, but I still bought a new touring bike to replace the bike that had been stolen.
I had considered fixing up the old bike, but the cost of doing so did not seem worthwhile. A lot of worn parts would be difficult to find since sizes and standards had changed since the late 1980s.
When I calculated the cost of the new bike against a 15-year lifespan, it was quite a bit cheaper than fixing the old bike for another two or three years of service.
There's nothing wrong with spending money — and sometimes a lot of money — on a new item, provided it's necessary. A new bike may actually be a prudent purchase. At that point, it's not a materialistic gesture. It's about simply spending your money wisely. This also holds true for other big-ticket purchases such as tools, computers, appliances and the like.
The concern about materialism is a valid one I think. Quite a few cyclists have a garage full of bicycles. They buy a new one every year. I kind of suffer from the "garage full of bikes" syndrome, too. I have 2 bikes. My wife has 2. One son is planning on getting a bike (recent convert to cycling as transportation...). Another son has an old Schwinn which he parks here over the summer (he uses it to tool around campus.) I have an old Huffy which I'm trying to get rid of. As well, there's a good supply of old parts, dead tubes, pumps, a truing stand, etc. etc. If you open my garage, you would probably remark that's there no room for anything else.
I think the concern about materialism is also a concern about "bloat" in life. Might be a valid one.
Nycycle
08-16-07, 09:20 PM
Well, I wanted not new, not fancy, but faster and better road thingy.
Due to size and fast talkin bike dealer I end up with new, problem it's pretty, now I got that disgusting desire to wax it and shine it all the time.
Thou shall not want. but I did, so now I live with it. Sure is nice to ride though.
by the way, I have three, the Jeep, the pickup truck and the Ferrari(the one I just mentioned).
The only one I consider a WANT thing is the Jeep(Specialized FSR),,, it is only good for play.
The Pickup(Hardrock) I use to pull trailer to the store.
The Ferrari(Allez Elite) I use to go longer distance such as visit sick or older pals, and go ride with my pal Waldowales.
AStomper
08-16-07, 11:39 PM
I use a Ferrari, because my subcompact won't get me to longer distances to visit sick and older pals, and for ride with pal Waldowales.
Wait my subcompact would, but everyone envies my Ferrari.
BTW Whenever I see a Ferrari I'm always trying to see if its a celebrity driving it, and once, in Fort Wayne, I think it was.
iain.dalton
08-17-07, 12:51 AM
I posted this as much to see what divers people thought as to answer my question. Thanks all for the great responses. I think I agree that a bike is a tool and one must spend some money on the right tool for the job. I'll be gone to Utah next week (by car this time, by bike next time!), so I'll not have opportunity to reply until I return.
MrCjolsen
08-17-07, 03:35 AM
Materialism is buying more than one needs. If your bike is your main transportation, then you need something well made and functional, and a new Surly LHT fits that bill.
As for having multiple bikes (I have four), the thing to remember is that bikes are a hobby for many of us. That means that instead of building birdhouses or painting watercolors, I tinker with bicycles. I doubt that a person who builds birdhouses or paints watercolors would consider the materials they purchase for those hobbies materialistic.
Cyclaholic
08-17-07, 05:24 AM
Just buy whatever you reeeeeeally desire, then hit yourself with this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e5/Cat_o%27_nine.JPG/800px-Cat_o%27_nine.JPG
Everything will even out in the end.
Why would he want to hit himself with a dollar bill?
lyeinyoureye
08-17-07, 08:08 AM
Why would he want to hit himself with a dollar bill?Who wouldn't wanna get spanked by big bad George? :D
heywood
08-17-07, 11:06 AM
Sometimes you bike people (me included) drive me nuts..
$30,000 car plus/minus it's 5 year lifespan <--that's when these nuts trade up.. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine spending $60,000 every ten years on bikes & stuff !!?? I honestly don't think it could be done even if you did a China tour every other year! People really spend this kind of money on cars & trucks! Believe it! and that doesn't cover insurance or gasoline!! While these bikes are going on 17 years! My God see any 17 year old cars out there??!!
People don't make 60k or 100k a year that's why they're all leased too!
People look at 'you' weird for 'not' owning a car..yea i've had that happen, then I pull out a pencil and do a quick budget and the ones calling me weird just smile sheepishly as the dollars add-up..hee..hee.. "oh i never realized it was costing that much...hee..hee".
Bunch of idiots...let's ride over to the subsidized old folks home they're in when we're all 90 years old and kick the walkers out from under them (those that don't end up as red smears on the hightway).
Sorry..end of rant.
Oh yea..so you want to spend a couple of grand on a new touring bike? Don't even think that you're being materialistic. You're not even close, stop worrying life is short.. :)
Cheers!
Sometimes you bike people (me included) drive me nuts..
$30,000 car plus/minus it's 5 year lifespan <--that's when these nuts trade up.. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine spending $60,000 every ten years on bikes & stuff !!?? I honestly don't think it could be done even if you did a China tour every other year! People really spend this kind of money on cars & trucks! Believe it! and that doesn't cover insurance or gasoline!! While these bikes are going on 17 years! My God see any 17 year old cars out there??!!
People don't make 60k or 100k a year that's why they're all leased too!
People look at 'you' weird for 'not' owning a car..yea i've had that happen, then I pull out a pencil and do a quick budget and the ones calling me weird just smile sheepishly as the dollars add-up..hee..hee.. "oh i never realized it was costing that much...hee..hee".
Bunch of idiots...let's ride over to the subsidized old folks home they're in when we're all 90 years old and kick the walkers out from under them (those that don't end up as red smears on the hightway).
Sorry..end of rant.
Oh yea..so you want to spend a couple of grand on a new touring bike? Don't even think that you're being materialistic. You're not even close, stop worrying life is short.. :)
Cheers!
yaaa, uhm, heywood, like I don't think you are allowed to use smiley faces after a rant like that...
Cyclaholic
08-19-07, 02:48 AM
Sometimes you bike people (me included) drive me nuts..
$30,000 car plus/minus it's 5 year lifespan <--that's when these nuts trade up.. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine spending $60,000 every ten years on bikes & stuff !!?? I honestly don't think it could be done even if you did a China tour every other year! People really spend this kind of money on cars & trucks! Believe it! and that doesn't cover insurance or gasoline!! While these bikes are going on 17 years! My God see any 17 year old cars out there??!!
People don't make 60k or 100k a year that's why they're all leased too!
People look at 'you' weird for 'not' owning a car..yea i've had that happen, then I pull out a pencil and do a quick budget and the ones calling me weird just smile sheepishly as the dollars add-up..hee..hee.. "oh i never realized it was costing that much...hee..hee".
Bunch of idiots...let's ride over to the subsidized old folks home they're in when we're all 90 years old and kick the walkers out from under them (those that don't end up as red smears on the hightway).
Sorry..end of rant.
Oh yea..so you want to spend a couple of grand on a new touring bike? Don't even think that you're being materialistic. You're not even close, stop worrying life is short.. :)
Cheers!
Have you considered switching to decaf? :D
I think the Surly LHT is a fine bicycle. It should last you many years. It takes no more material to make a good bike than to make a crappy bike. As long as you made the money to pay for the Surly, and earned it honestly, you should feel OK about spending it on something nice that does minimal harm to others. You might want to donate your old bike, or sell it at a fair price if you need the money to help pay for the Surly.
discosaurus
08-20-07, 03:17 PM
As if you need more motivation, a bike weighs what? like 1/100 of a car? You could buy 100 bikes and still not consume as much as it would take to buy (and drive) a car!
evblazer
08-20-07, 04:36 PM
Sometimes you bike people (me included) drive me nuts..
$30,000 car plus/minus it's 5 year lifespan <--that's when these nuts trade up.. :rolleyes:
That sounds pretty tame. Most folks at my work are spending 40k+ and changing out every 2-3 years. Same people who think I'm crazy for spending so much on my bicycle ($850:eek:). Uhm hello my bike costs me less overall then your car does for a month of parking it in your driveway :D I mean 2 cars cost this one chap and his spouse $1,400 a month not counting insurance/maintenance/gas. :eek: I find it so entertaining what some people pay based on what they do/make which is why I just have to watch King of Cars (some reality car dealer show) just to see those sales people try to get these people credit go buy some car they can't afford. It is a sickness like watching a car accident or something.
Oh wait buying bikes materialism. Hm if your not buying a very expensive bike to just hang on the wall and you aren't buying a 6k+ bike for each day of the week or to match different pairs of glasses then I don't think you have hit the materialism level.
chrisrivas1
08-24-07, 04:41 PM
my friend bought a pinarello montello 86 and a super campy special drillium edition wheelset for it, as well as a vintage cinelli that is now on its way. you can go extreme with the materialism, or you could buy the bike and use it. does my point transmit clearly? he spent a lot!
cosmo starr
08-24-07, 05:26 PM
its not materialistic if you buy quality goods that you intend on using effectively for their full life.
Lamplight
08-24-07, 05:37 PM
I don't think you're being unreasonable, although as others have said you could keep your eye out for a larger used bike. I have only older bicycles, but I...um...have about twelve. :o If it helps any, most of them I keep so that friends can ride with me when they want or borrow them if they need to.
koine2002
08-27-07, 06:10 PM
Lately I've been planning to buy a touring bike (Surly LHT), which I'll have to buy new. I don't buy new when I can avoid it. I think the urge to buy new is a form of materialism. By using a bike instead of a car, I already avoid a form of materialism (the thought that every person must have a car). Yet, people show off pictures of their bikes, which seems materialistic (though I'm not criticizing them). Am I succumbing to materialism by wanting this new bike? Technically, I could buy a longer stem for my too-small bike, and a new drivetrain, and while it's not much of a tourer, people have toured on everything, so I could make do with what I have.
So what do you think? Do you extend antimaterialism even to your bike?
I am not anti-materialistic, what I am is anti-maximalists when it comes to stuff. I am a minimalist. What that means is the least amount of stuff to get done what needs to get done and still have some comfort (lets not be ascetics here). If getting a new bike would help you in getting done what needs to get done, then get one. If it would be well beyond what is needed, then don't. I live car free where I live because it fits this philosophy. As a realist, however, I would have to admit that in some other localities (such as Oklahoma City), that is not as feasible. In such a situation, having a car there would not be contrary to a minimalist mentality.
Bushman
08-27-07, 06:23 PM
Sometimes you bike people (me included) drive me nuts..
$30,000 car plus/minus it's 5 year lifespan <--that's when these nuts trade up.. :rolleyes:
Can you imagine spending $60,000 every ten years on bikes & stuff !!?? I honestly don't think it could be done even if you did a China tour every other year! People really spend this kind of money on cars & trucks! Believe it! and that doesn't cover insurance or gasoline!! While these bikes are going on 17 years! My God see any 17 year old cars out there??!!
People don't make 60k or 100k a year that's why they're all leased too!
People look at 'you' weird for 'not' owning a car..yea i've had that happen, then I pull out a pencil and do a quick budget and the ones calling me weird just smile sheepishly as the dollars add-up..hee..hee.. "oh i never realized it was costing that much...hee..hee".
Bunch of idiots...let's ride over to the subsidized old folks home they're in when we're all 90 years old and kick the walkers out from under them (those that don't end up as red smears on the hightway).
Sorry..end of rant.
Oh yea..so you want to spend a couple of grand on a new touring bike? Don't even think that you're being materialistic. You're not even close, stop worrying life is short.. :)
Cheers!
wow. switch to DECAF!
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