Folding Bikes - What is small enough for the train & fun enough to be your only/everyday bike?

Hi

My first post! I’ve been reading the posts for a couple of weeks and see that some other guys in the UK have asked questions about what bike to get if they are going to commute.

I’ve got a similar question. I think the commute part has been answered but what I’m after is the one-bike-fits all. Like some of the others here I will occasionally want to put one on a train to go into London and then cycle around the city to meetings. I’m not after a tourer as I will only have one bag with me for a laptop, phone etc.

So for me, it’s the ideal combination of something small enough to take on the train and also suitable and fun enough to be an everyday bike (roads and cyclepaths). What is important is that it will be a bike I will actually want to ride.

I want to get it at a UK shop, so I guess some makes will be out as they’re not normally stocked here. So please bear that in mind with your suggestions.

I’m a Triathlete, so I don’t hang about! The Domestic Goddess has sanctioned something up to £1000 or $2000 equivalent – thanks to whomever it was that mentioned the scheme through your employer!

Fast, fun, small – is there really a one-bike-does-it-all?

Really looking forward to your advice.

IWantToGoFaster

I'm looking for some firsthand experiences with the Dahon Glide P8. It has 24" wheels and a nice, wide gear range. With the rack, fenders and internal hub it would make a great all weather commuter/day tripper.

On paper it seems ideal. I can't wait to try one out!

OP: How tall are you?

If you are a Triathlete then you should already know the answer to your question. There is indeed a bike which folds but rides like a road bike and I've just ordered one. This bike was ridden in the World Triathlon Championships and won a Bronze medal.

http://www.airnimalfoldingbikes.com/M_ChameleonPerformanceSport.php

You could get a Dahon cadenza frame and build it up as a skinny tyre drop/bullhorn bar thingy.

Actually, i have only one bike, my 2005 Specialized Globe Mity, which is basically a Dahon (the current Globe models are 700C non-folding hybrids). I switched the bars for on-one midge bars and use it for commuting (via train - it fits in the end-of carriage luggage racks in a FGW intercity) general riding about, and also off-road. My top speed (downhill obviously) is 39.8mph. I also run BMX tyres because i like a bit of extra cushioning and they're cheap and tough.

If you want something more road-bikey, maybe a dahon speed pro? The brakes on the TT bar model are a bit limp, so i'd maybe go for the normal flar bar option to get the v-brakes and then switch out the bars...

I'd also recommend www.foldingbikes.co.uk as far as where to get it. They happily dealt with loads of stupid questions and the bike came fully set up and ready to ride. Good price too...

SesameCrunch - I'm 187cm

onbike 1939 - Airnimals seem a bit of a big fold for my requirments - see thread title.

doktoravalanche - Some FGW have the luggage racks, some don't. I'm going to play it safe and go for something that fits even when there are none. I realise this limits my choice but better that then not being able to get it on the train. Thanks for the suggestion for buying the bike.

For multimode communitng you need a bike that folds into a relatively small package.

The only performance multimode bikes are the Birdy and Dahon Mu/Speed lines. A to B feels that the Ti Brompton fits into this category, but it really doesn't ride like an everyday bike.

The Birdy is a high quality bike. I feel that it rides better than a full size unsuspended bike due to it's stiff suspension. It's also good on packed dirt trails. I can easily keep up with the roadies on a fast group ride and feel more comfortable doing it. So, it's my only bike. I also do a lot of touring, and it can handle a 40+ Kg load complete with front and back panniers. Everything down to the cable routing has been well thought out. The downsides are: 1) cost, 2) difficult to fold (not slow, just difficult to learn), and 3) longer stem than a road bike. Otherwise, I would recommend it over a full size bike.

The Dahons are generally a better value, with SRAM X9 components for less than $$ the Birdy's XT (IMHO inferior) components. However, the frame has a hinge and the build quality is low. I also find the ride to be a bit harsher than a road bike. On a smooth surface, the Mu (my former bike) was stiff and fast, but really not adequate for anything but smooth roads. Also, I didn't feel that I could abuse it.

If, for some reason, you find a Brompton comfy and fast as A to B magazine does, then it is another mulimode option. Some people tour on them. I couldn't imagine doing so.

Comfort: Birdy > Dahon = Brompton
Big bike like dimensions: Birdy = Dahon > Brompton
Folded size Brompton >> Birdy > Dahon (with greater than signs representing "better than" not smaller than)
Performance: Birdy > Dahon > Brompton
Value (not counting quality): Dahon > Brompton = Birdy

PS, I had only a few hundred miles on the Dahon, and have almost 4,000 on the Birdy now. I've only ridden a Brompton once. So take that advice with a grain of salt.

I have a Bike Friday New World Tourist with road tires and drop bars. You can fast fold it into the soft bag to take on the train. However it's a bit messy to fold - the handlebars flop around and the bagged shape is irregular and bulky - so I don't find it is so handy for commuting. It is better viewed as a bike to travel with, I think. However it has road bike geometry so riding will be enjoyable. the Brompton, and other cheaper folding bikes I tested at LBSs all had too upright a seat post.
Swift (either the original from the New York builder or the licensed knock off from Xootr) also advertises that it rides like a road bike.

My recommendation is for a Xootr Swift. Stiff frame, lots of standard parts, fun ride, $700. It feels a lot like a road bike, although it does have the oversteer typical of 20" wheeled bikes.

The hitches are, first it doesn't fold very small. It does fold small enough to take on most public transport though. Second, the stock bike has flat bars. That's easy to fix, since it uses a standard stem.

It's good for commuting, recreation, touring, long rides (60-70 miles), even some group rides. I'd draw the limits at MTB, fast group rides, maybe centuries.


On a slight side note....

Can you use a 20" wheeled bike in a typical duathlon / triathlon? I know you can use 650c and I assume the rules are relaxed compared to UCI events, not sure they are that relaxed though.

At least the Swift folds thin. The Airnimal does fold smaller though, and as thin.

As a triathlete you would do well to test-ride a bunch of bikes - you may feel frustrated by certain bikes' overall frame flexibility.

I might not have been clear. This would not be for Triathlons but a bike a ride to work, take on the train, ride round to meetings and get on and ride for fun. My road bike is for competition use only as it isn't really suitable for normal use. I only metioned Tri's as an indication of fitness level and general awareness of cycling.

I like the look of the Swift/Xootr, which I can get here in the UK, which is a big plus. But size might be the problem.

I'm beginning to get the feeling that the one-bike-fits-all might not exist, well at least not one that will fit on a busy FGW train.

Is there anywhere that has a photo of a lot of folding bikes lined up next to each other, open and folded?

Keep the comments coming folks, they're a great help.

Who was it who originated this thread ?

Why don't you get a brompton? They are the smallest / quickest folders and will fit in any small space, eg between seats or under tables on FGW even if there is no luggage space available.

I have a 2-speed brompton. I commute in a hilly city and take it on the train to cycle round other cities - intended use is work and city breaks. I find it very comfortable and very easy, to the extent it has replaced my regular bike apart from extended leisure rides / touring. I would be quite happy to ride it 15 miles non-stop - after that I would look at increasing the gears perhaps but would be more likely to select a normal bike for a planned trip of that length - while it's possible to tour, why would you when you can take something that's built for purpose? You said you're not after a tourer tho and if you are planning it for mainly commute and city fun then it is absolutely ideal. (I think this is smart, as folding bikes are quite specific in what they do best - if you had one that claims to do everything then you'd have to compromise on everything, it wouldn't be the best) Also comes with a very neat bag that just drops on the front, which looks smart and is roomy.

It is insane fun. Really light, fast (can still take out other commuters quite easily) and you can just throw it around. In fact we have just added a second one to our household because we love riding them so much. It is incredibly flexible because of its light weight - you don't have to lock it up for short stops as you can carry it round a shop easily in one hand or tuck it away inside a cafe or pub.

Take one for a test ride and try out the various different bar combinations to see what suits you best - they feel very different so be careful to get the one that works for you.

My disclaimer is that I've never tried other folders, so I'm not saying that it's def better than other models. Size and design were key factors, and have only been more and more impressed as I have used it.

My final advice if you choose a brompton is to get a colour - black is cheaper but sure you would regret it :)

At 187cm, no Brompton or other 16" wheel bike is going to be comfortable for you for longer rides. Your legs will not extend fully enough. I'm 183cm, and I can't get full extension.

There are many 20" options which would most certainly fit your criteria, some have already been mentioned - the Swift, Dahon Speed Pro, and many others. I have a Speed Pro and the ride is very comparable to my full size roadies. The components are excellent, great wheels. They're just a little heavier than my roadie. I'm not trying to sell the Speed Pro, my point is that your criteria is not that difficult to meet. Just go try some 20" folding bikes and you'll see. One thing to watch for is the wheelbase, some bikes are shorter than others. You'll want something in the 40-42" range, which is comparable to a full size bike. Anything shorter, and you'll notice the difference in steering twitchiness.

Good luck and have fun shopping!

Why don't you get a brompton? They are the smallest / quickest folders and will fit in any small space, eg between seats or under tables on FGW even if there is no luggage space available.

I have a 2-speed brompton. I commute in a hilly city and take it on the train to cycle round other cities - intended use is work and city breaks. I find it very comfortable and very easy, to the extent it has replaced my regular bike apart from extended leisure rides / touring. I would be quite happy to ride it 15 miles non-stop - after that I would look at increasing the gears perhaps but would be more likely to select a normal bike for a planned trip of that length - while it's possible to tour, why would you when you can take something that's built for purpose? You said you're not after a tourer tho and if you are planning it for mainly commute and city fun then it is absolutely ideal. (I think this is smart, as folding bikes are quite specific in what they do best - if you had one that claims to do everything then you'd have to compromise on everything, it wouldn't be the best) Also comes with a very neat bag that just drops on the front, which looks smart and is roomy.

It is insane fun. Really light, fast (can still take out other commuters quite easily) and you can just throw it around. In fact we have just added a second one to our household because we love riding them so much. It is incredibly flexible because of its light weight - you don't have to lock it up for short stops as you can carry it round a shop easily in one hand or tuck it away inside a cafe or pub.

Take one for a test ride and try out the various different bar combinations to see what suits you best - they feel very different so be careful to get the one that works for you.

My disclaimer is that I've never tried other folders, so I'm not saying that it's def better than other models. Size and design were key factors, and have only been more and more impressed as I have used it.

My final advice if you choose a brompton is to get a colour - black is cheaper but sure you would regret it :)

I'd concur with this advice exactly. As the questioner wants it for travelling on trains and city riding, the Brompton or a clone is the way to go. The design does lead to very agile performance and as you say it is 'insane fun'. My Merc clone is a blast thanks to the geometry and design of Andrew Ritchie (Mr 'Brompton'). Being a cheapskate, I bought the copy rather than the original product. I've never regretted it - not once, and I can't say that for many of my possessions. Do you know, if I was ever in the position of having to go into exile with one possession, I would have to chose my Merc.

I have a Bike Friday New World Tourist with road tires and drop bars. You can fast fold it into the soft bag to take on the train. However it's a bit messy to fold - the handlebars flop around and the bagged shape is irregular and bulky - so I don't find it is so handy for commuting. It is better viewed as a bike to travel with, I think. However it has road bike geometry so riding will be enjoyable. the Brompton, and other cheaper folding bikes I tested at LBSs all had too upright a seat post.
Swift (either the original from the New York builder or the licensed knock off from Xootr) also advertises that it rides like a road bike.

I have a NWT with drop bars and taking it on the subway is doable once in a long while; but a disaster for an everyday commute.

Given the amount of money you have to spend, maybe you should talk to Steve Parry for a modified Brompton/Merc? You could get the smallest fold with a better drivetrain than the stock Brompton/Merc.

If the Brompton/Merc doesn't work for you, I would give a serious look at the Birdy. With your budget, you could get a smoking bike that still folds quite small and is definitely a fun bike. The only problem is that you can't roll the bike while folded like the Brompton/Merc.

Your height will create a few issues with a Downtube Mini. You would definitely have to modify the seatpost--which will affect the size of the fold--and maybe the reach. This option would be less expensive--although I recall that Downtube bikes are considerably more expensive on the other side of the Atlantic--but require one to modify the bike if you want a higher level of performance.

Do you know, if I was ever in the position of having to go into exile with one possession, I would have to chose my Merc.

WOW that is a glowing testomonial EV! .... for exile wouldn't you be slightly tempted by a real brompton :) ? i know some say there is virtually no difference, and others say there is ... whatever - thats a fine quote for either !

As for other suggestions - you have to experience FGW trains at rush hour to appreciate just how crowded they really are. The 'Evil eyes' you get for bringing on even a brommy/merc or strida are bad enough .... Swifts, Airnimals and even 20" Dahons and Birdies just take up too much space.

I was once standing in a usual place, in a crowded train vestibule, by the bin, next to the doors. I was leaning back over my folded brommie against the wall to try and minimise the already small space i was taking. When a 'lady' on getting out at Ealing Broadway, walked past me to the door, and on passing me she stamped her high heal hard into my foot and said "thats for bringing a bike onto this train you selfish b*stard" Wow - did that hurt in both ways. I was bruised for a week. Ok she was obviously having a bad day and I got it in the foot - but just shows how personal space is such an issue.

At 187cm, no Brompton or other 16" wheel bike is going to be comfortable for you for longer rides. Your legs will not extend fully enough. I'm 183cm, and I can't get full extension.

Well, I'm 183cm too, and I do get full extension --by putting the seatpost up above the minimum insertion mark on my Downtube Mini; but this hardly matters since you are taller and anyhow the Mini is not an option for you in GB.

I don't think the wheel size is the reason for this, but very few one-size-fits-all bicycles are built to fit a person as tall as you. At the very least you will have to test ride any bike to be quite sure it fits. Leg extension is only the primary problem; if you get the saddle up high enough you will still have the problem that most folding bikes have an annoyingly short reach to the handlebar, and is not so easy to fix.

On the other hand, in my opinion, 16" wheels are a fundamental requirement for any bike that's to go on public transportation during rush hour. The Swift is a beautiful bicycle, and it's a great ride, but I wouldn't want to take it on the train with me every day.

At the end of the day, you will have to compromise between the ride and the fold.

WOW that is a glowing testomonial EV! .... for exile wouldn't you be slightly tempted by a real brompton :) ? i know some say there is virtually no difference, and others say there is ... whatever - thats a fine quote for either !

Oh - I'm sure there are differences Simon, but I don't own a B. The remark was about things I own. I'd be happy with a B for sure I think. It seems a spendid bicycle. I only balked at the price and the idea of having to wait two months, whereas what I bought was delivered to my door in two days at a total price of £342 including delivery, about three hundred pounds cheaper than a similarly equipped Brompton, considering that it came with luggage system and carrying bag as well as dynamo lights and luggage rack. I'd far rather have a steel frame than the alluminium one I have, but it has stood up very well to a lot of use and rough treatment.


I was once standing in a usual place, in a crowded train vestibule, by the bin, next to the doors. I was leaning back over my folded brommie against the wall to try and minimise the already small space i was taking. When a 'lady' on getting out at Ealing Broadway, walked past me to the door, and on passing me she stamped her high heal hard into my foot and said "thats for bringing a bike onto this train you selfish b*stard" Wow - did that hurt in both ways. I was bruised for a week. Ok she was obviously having a bad day and I got it in the foot - but just shows how personal space is such an issue.

What an attrocious incident that was Simon. Just part of the decline in behavioural standards we see so much of these days, I think I'd have been tempted to quench the pain in my foot by booting her up the arse with it as she walked off. What a ***** she must have been to do a thing like that.

What an attrocious incident that was Simon. Just part of the decline in behavioural standards we see so much of these days, I think I'd have been tempted to quench the pain in my foot by booting her up the arse with it as she walked off. What a ***** she must have been to do a thing like that.

I seem to be agreeing with you a lot lately EvilV. Although I can't type or say "arse" without laughing.

And yes, my evil NYC ways would have been brought out in a hurry by that woman.

-G

You will need to test ride a variety of bikes but it sure sounds to me that a Birdy may be the best fit for you and your needs.

It is fun to ride.

It is light , it folds quickly when you know how, and just as important, it folds to a compact package which has the chain to the inside, stays together and is relatively easy to carry.

It rides more like a good road bike than any folder I have tried that will also fold well enough that I would want to contemplate it for train commuting during peak hours.

It will accomodate tall riders as well as short riders. I am 188 cm tall with long legs for my height. I find the riding position great with full leg extension and there is still room for further adjustment.

It's a proven timeless design with a good reputation for durability and a high resale value.

It is very comfortable and rides very well on rough roads without compromising efficiency.

It's fun to ride it fast!

Other thoughts:

Drop bars on folders are not very compatible with a compact fold. You may want to get the 25 deg non-adjustable stem for the best position to ride fast with standard bars.

I think that Schwalbe Marathon Racer tyres may be a good upgrade if the model you choose does not come with them.

David

At 187cm, no Brompton or other 16" wheel bike is going to be comfortable for you for longer rides. Your legs will not extend fully enough. I'm 183cm, and I can't get full extension. Good luck and have fun shopping!

That's silly. I know Birdy riders who are 6'5" or 196cm and get good extension. You just need a sport stem or an ahead stem to improve the reach. Those Germans are tall folks.

I'm sure that there are Bromptons out there that have been fit to taller riders, too. But I'm not sure what the specs are.

Just part of the decline in behavioural standards we see so much of these daysThat's old man talk. There's always been bad behaviour.

That's silly. I know Birdy riders who are 6'5" or 196cm and get good extension. You just need a sport stem or an ahead stem to improve the reach. Those Germans are tall folks.

I'm sure that there are Bromptons out there that have been fit to taller riders, too. But I'm not sure what the specs are.

I've been on a Brompton. Yes, I can ride it for short distances, and I am buying a Merc because I love the bikes. However, I think we're not talking about the same thing. I am referring to leg extension so that one can ride long distances or aggressively without hurting a knee (the OP describes himself as a triathlete). I believe you're talking about arm reach based on your suggestion of a longer, taller stem. Apples and Oranges, eh?

I might not have been clear. This would not be for Triathlons but a bike a ride to work, take on the train, ride round to meetings and get on and ride for fun. My road bike is for competition use only as it isn't really suitable for normal use. I only metioned Tri's as an indication of fitness level and general awareness of cycling.

I like the look of the Swift/Xootr, which I can get here in the UK, which is a big plus. But size might be the problem.

I'm beginning to get the feeling that the one-bike-fits-all might not exist, well at least not one that will fit on a busy FGW train.

Is there anywhere that has a photo of a lot of folding bikes lined up next to each other, open and folded?

Keep the comments coming folks, they're a great help.To me you were clear enough. I think the fault is mine I tend to be notoriously unclear. :) The point I was trying to make is, you are used to quality bike performance while doing triathlon. If you now got a folder which is flexy or slow as a dog, you would be sorely disappointed. So in your case it makes sense to go for a folder that gives a quality ride, perhaps at the cost of not folding so small it fits into a matchbox.

The Swift is definitely a good choice - it is all about getting agood frame.

And read this review about the Airnimal Joey - it sounds like a lot of fun while being fast and folding reasonably small. I don't have one but reading this certainly makes me want one.

http://www.wigglesworld.klebos.com/stuff/airnimal/index.asp

I also think the Birdy deserves a close look.

I'm going to throw in a recommendation for the Bike Friday Tikit. Very, very fast, reasonably compact fold.

They have three frame sizes, (small, medium, and large) and outfit the bike to your dimensions. See the Folding Society's report on the Tikit at http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/. Scroll down to find the report.

Tikits are available in England through Avon Valley Cyclery, where you can get a test ride.

It's also a fast bike. See Alan Scholz clocked at 40 mph on a Tikit in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGN69k82J7I. (Check the clip at about 1:40 in.)

Also see oldiesonfoldies comments on the Tikit in the oldiesonfoldies bike comments thread. And, Alex Wetmore reviewed his new Tiket on his blog http://blogs.phred.org/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/08/08/bike-friday-tikit-mini-report.aspx.

No, I don't work for Bike Friday. Yes, I have bought a Tikit. :)

As for the Airnimal, I believe you have to remove the front tire to fold it. If true, that would be royal pain on any public transport.

I thought that the tikit had a fast but not so compact fold.

OP: How crowded are these trains you ride?

As for the Airnimal, I believe you have to remove the front tire to fold it. If true, that would be royal pain on any public transport.Not necessarily true; in the review I referred to above, the guy filed off the lawyer tabs and put on narrow high pressure tyres. He can remove the front wheel in an instant even not having to release the brakes. He says he folds faster than the numerous Brommie owners he encounters on the train. (Although he admits the others don't necessarily know it's a folding race.) Plus the Airnimal rides like a dream while he thinks the Brommie is a dog.

Not necessarily true; in the review I referred to above, the guy filed off the lawyer tabs and put on narrow high pressure tyres. He can remove the front wheel in an instant even not having to release the brakes. He says he folds faster than the numerous Brommie owners he encounters on the train. (Although he admits the others don't necessarily know it's a folding race.) Plus the Airnimal rides like a dream while he thinks the Brommie is a dog.

I agree that the Airnimal Joey would be an excellent choice... the 520mm wheels make a big difference in road feel and confidence (I have a Chameleon) ...

I also like the Birdy, although it runs on 355mm wheels, the front and rear suspension allows for road irregularities and it is stiff, light, folds relatively small, able to be ridden fast with confidence, and has a proven track record of build quality... since the OP wants something "fun enough to be your only/everyday bike", I am now of the mind set that anything with small wheels (smaller than 26"), in order to be truly 'fun' at road speeds, shouldn't beat you up... Alex Moulton knew what he was doing with his full suspension/high pressure tire, bike designs .. My Swift became noticeably faster and more comfortable when I put a Pantour suspension hub up front and Rolf wheels/Stelvio tires...

I just received what may be my favorite road folder for under $1500.. it is the Pacific Reach Road... full suspension, light, tracks beautifully, confidence inspiring ride, plenty of gearing with a 53/39 and 9/26 Capreo, and it runs on 451mm wheels.. I'll try to get pictures up soon and a few words about it, but suffice to say, after the first 100 miles, I am in love with the bike!

I just received what may be my favorite road folder for under $1500.. it is the Pacific Reach Road... full suspension, light, tracks beautifully, confidence inspiring ride, plenty of gearing with a 53/39 and 9/26 Capreo, and it runs on 451mm wheels.. I'll try to get pictures up soon and a few words about it, but suffice to say, after the first 100 miles, I am in love with the bike!You may well be the 1st in this forum with one.

reviews + p0rn eagerly awaited...

Where can I find the Merc in the States? Or is the only way of getting a Merc is through overseas delivery?

You may well be the 1st in this forum with one.

reviews + p0rn eagerly awaited...

Jur, With a Pacific Reach Road, you WILL last longer and your gal will notice the increase in size immediately..:D

Where can I find the Merc in the States? Or is the only way of getting a Merc is through overseas delivery?

I just went through this myself. The only way is to order off their eBay store. Price is 330 Pounds, but you have to add 70 Pounds for shipping and another 11% duty. Adds up to about $900. As a comparison, you can get the lowest end Brompton in the US for about $700 (without some of the accessories that come with Merc).

I got lucky and found a used one from a fellow Forum-ite. Can't wait to get it.

Jur, With a Pacific Reach Road, you WILL last longer and your gal will notice the increase in size immediately..:D

Gee, now I really can't wait for the pictures and full report!

**breaks out the popcorn**http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eat.gif

I just went through this myself. The only way is to order off their eBay store. Price is 330 Pounds, but you have to add 70 Pounds for shipping and another 11% duty. Adds up to about $900. As a comparison, you can get the lowest end Brompton in the US for about $700 (without some of the accessories that come with Merc).

Hmm, at the rate, I would lean back towards getting the entry level Brompton, the C3e. And then ditch my Dahon.

I'm heading off into London later today and I'll try and take some photographs to illustrate the spaces (or lack of) for bicycles and how crowded the carriage might be. That means I must aim to travel during rush hour! What a mug I am.

I like what has been recommended so far. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

At 187cm, no Brompton or other 16" wheel bike is going to be comfortable for you for longer rides. Your legs will not extend fully enough. I'm 183cm, and I can't get full extension.



Just to clarify, the Brompton seat post come in 2 sizes - you just need to make sure you get the extended version. My husband is the same height as the OP (6' - 6'1, legs on the long side compared to body which may make him "taller" for cycling purposes) and he rides the Brompton comfortably at full stretch with the post fully extended.

This also has the advantage that you don't have to remember where to pull the post out to - right to the top! At 5'6 I ride with it in line with the bars but occasionally have to re-start if I've pulled it a cm too long or short.

I would agree that you are at the top end for this bike but I am sure that you would be fine with the right length seat post.

This thread is fun because everyone is very loyal to their own foldy! I'm glad it's not just me that feels protective! ;)

[QUOTE=IWantToGoFaster;5112003]I'm heading off into London later today and I'll try and take some photographs to illustrate the spaces (or lack of) for bicycles and how crowded the carriage might be. That means I must aim to travel during rush hour! What a mug I am. QUOTE]

If you get the chance travel at the time you will be going in. If you manage to go in outside rush hour(s) it is completely different - much less crowded -and a totally different experience- some of the bigger bikes discussed would be feasible. To appreciate just how tight the early 7 - 9 trains can be you have to experience it ... that's why so many MP's etc. are jumping up and down ... but looks like no real changes from FGW until at least next year.

I suppose if the trains are this (http://jpns.remotedb.earlham.edu/study_abroad_japan/photo_album/images/crowded%20train_jpg.jpg) crowded then even the tiniest folder would be too large.

I just went through this myself. The only way is to order off their eBay store. Price is 330 Pounds, but you have to add 70 Pounds for shipping and another 11% duty. Adds up to about $900. As a comparison, you can get the lowest end Brompton in the US for about $700 (without some of the accessories that come with Merc).

I got lucky and found a used one from a fellow Forum-ite. Can't wait to get it.

These kinds of prices would make the Brompton a far better buy. You probably don't need the extras at all, except maybe the fenders (as you fellows call them).

By the way, having read all the posts with interest, and knowing FGW rush hours very well, I think the two choices are the Brompton or the Birdy (smallest version of).

if I could afford a Birdy, I'd be interested in giving it a test ride after reading the recommendations here! More bikes to save for though... :)

Thought that this was an interesting comparison http://www.moultoneers.net/birdyv.html

If you really don't get too much difference in ride then I would not want to splash out too much, especially as the Brompton wins on folding (the fact that I can fold it in 7 seconds, and also stand it easily with its back end flipped under, make a huge difference to useability) and luggage which are important to me. However it may make a big difference to a top-end tall person!

I have read that the Birdy can have quick-release wheels? If you can avoid that it might be better for commuting in london. Less to steal, less lock cable to carry!

Key is to test ride. As I mentioned before, try different bars with the brompton. I ride an S-type and really did not get on with the other models with angled bars.

Hmm, at the rate, I would lean back towards getting the entry level Brompton, the C3e. And then ditch my Dahon.

I am an owner of both the Companion model the CE3, and 2 Dahons. What law makes you think that you must only have one bike? I live in very cramped quarters and can actually keep several folders at one time. And I use each bike in similar, yet overlapping ways. Don't actually ditch the Dahon. I would keep it for a spare or for a visitor that might want to ride with you.

For upgrades on all my folders see the World Of Folding Bicycles series below:

You may well be the 1st in this forum with one.

reviews + p0rn eagerly awaited...

Yeah, we want a full report. The Reach in the US is poorly equipped. I've never understood why they tarnish great frames with Tiagra components.

At 5'6 I ride with it in line with the bars but occasionally have to re-start if I've pulled it a cm too long or short.
This thread is fun because everyone is very loyal to their own foldy! I'm glad it's not just me that feels protective! ;)

You just need to mark the post and the bike with indelible ink (Sharpie pen) to know exactly where to put the seat.

Yes, loyalists disunite!

But, I only go on my Birdy rant when someone wants a fast multimode commuter. It is a lot like the Moulton and all that. But the real advantage is that it folds into a small package. I can see why people like Bike Friday. (I just can't bring myself to abbreviated it BF, even though they sell them with the post but without the seat.) The Airnimal probably rides like a dream. But if you need to get on a cramped train and also commute long distances or do fast group rides, there is only one! (Demonic laugh.)

I am an owner of both the Companion model the CE3, and 2 Dahons. What law makes you think that you must only have one bike? I live in very cramped quarters and can actually keep several folders at one time. And I use each bike in similar, yet overlapping ways. Don't actually ditch the Dahon. I would keep it for a spare or for a visitor that might want to ride with you.

I see you're in SoCal. What part? You can PM me. If possible, do you think I can try out the C3e? I don't know of any dealers in SoCal that carry Bromptons.

I did lend out my Dahon as a spare to a friend to go riding at the beach with me a few weeks ago. I got her hooked on the folder and now she's buying the Dahon off me. And yes, I do have more than one bike.

You just need to mark the post and the bike with indelible ink (Sharpie pen) to know exactly where to put the seat.

That works for about 2 days on my Downtube...then the ink wears off.

What's that new Bike Friday? I'm quite sure it folds quicker than Brompton, though it might not have the... "home court advantage" for you, being an American marque. ;)

TIKIT, that's it! Look on Bike Friday's site for that one. IMO, it's the way to go, unless availability in England is a problem, in which case, Brompton is pretty well respected.

Sorry to butt in again - I've been told that there is actually a third seat post available for the brompton which is telescopic, so it should give enough inches for the longest of legs, so bear that in mind if you need more flexibility.

Otherwise happy shopping! Let us know what you end up with (pics!) and maybe I'll bump into you on a train some time - we can defend each other from anti-cyclists in high heels.

In the end I was fortunate not to have to travel during the rush hour period, so I did not bother taking any photographs. But those trains can be very, very full, you'll just have to take my word for it.

That said, there was one bloke in the lobby/foyer with a large folder, a Dahon I think. I can imagine that if the luggage racks are full, on those trains that have them, then I would either need something that fits by my feet or perhaps behind a chair, or I would have to stand in the lobby/vestibule. When departure details are announced there always seems to be a sprint for the train, which I find absolutely hilarious, watching very overweight middle-aged men in suits wobbling along, puffing and sweating to ensure they get their usual seat. I guess my point is that space will be at a premium and folding time will be relevant.

I gather from some of you that your trains aren't too crowded. If that was the case here I would not be too bothered about folding compactness. In the same way that family men don't want to be pushed in to getting an SUV or MPV, I hope to find something that will always fit on the train and will be a bicycle I want to ride everywhere.

I appreciate all of your friendly advice, which is far more useful than from bike shop staff, especilly as it is helping me to avoid buying a lemon!

IWantToGoFaster

PS This photo is not one of mine but I attach it to illustrate what things are typically like on rush hour trains.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42732000/jpg/_42732433_commuters_getty416.jpg