View Full Version : make a car driver wear his ass for a hat, then what happens?
boilermaker1
08-20-07, 07:43 PM
You know what Yoko Ono said about a warm gun, don't you?
Don't know, don't care.
donnamb
08-20-07, 10:52 PM
And this is why I don't dick around with drivers
“It all started around 12:30 on 1000 block of Southeast Clinton Street. Police said 46-year-old Johnny Eschweiler was driving along when he reported a cyclist kicked his car. Officers said Eschweiler sped up and hit the cyclist, who rolled onto the hood of the car, smashing the windshield.
The car continued on about 75 feet, sideswiping a car and hitting a truck before turning a corner where another cyclist heading towards the car was then hit, investigators said.”
Looks like the second cyclist was collateral damage from the first cyclist (supposedly) setting off the psycho
This quote left an important point out. The driver says the cyclist kicked his car. When the cyclist was interviewed in the hospital, he said the driver passed him with a half inch between the SUV and the handlebar of the bike. As they both approached a stop sign, the cyclist remembers knocking on the window and yelling at the guy that he almost killed him back there, etc. The cyclist, not wanting to stick around, proceeded through the intersection. His next memory was waking up in the ambulance. Witnesses' reports are more along the lines of the cycllist's memory than the motorist's.
This incident occured 10 blocks from my house. It is a quiet, residential neighborhood. SE Clinton Street is a "bike boulevard", with a great deal of bicycle traffic. People are not belligerent as a rule. The neighborhood is split between middle and upper middle class. Speeding motorists get regularly nailed by the police because of neighborhood complaints. We're quite reserved around here, and verbal confrontation is rare. Physical confrontation is almost unheard of. I've done what the cyclist said he did. My housemate has, too. We've never felt unsafe telling people they almost killed us and to please be more careful, and we'd never consider it "dicking around with drivers". We would never had imagined a response like this. These things happen in other places - not here. It's really disturbing how outside our cultural norm this incident is. I was at least heartened to learn that witnesses surrounded the guy in his SUV so he couldn't leave before the police arrived.
This quote left an important point out. The driver says the cyclist kicked his car. When the cyclist was interviewed in the hospital, he said the driver passed him with a half inch between the SUV and the handlebar of the bike. As they both approached a stop sign, the cyclist remembers knocking on the window and yelling at the guy ...............We would never had imagined a response like this. These things happen in other places - not here. It's really disturbing how outside our cultural norm this incident is. I was at least heartened to learn that witnesses surrounded the guy in his SUV so he couldn't leave before the police arrived.
That's the point, you would have never imagined a response like what occurred. But they do occur.
mr_nickos_jr
08-21-07, 06:14 AM
Don't be an idiot. Acting like the big shot won't get you anywhere. Realize there's jackasses out there and move on.
divergence
08-21-07, 12:34 PM
It's the same here, you have to stay within a meter of the curb or parked vehicles and cars are supposed to give you a full lane when they pass you.
Stay within a meter of parked cars? That's insane. And staying near the curb at intersections is a recipe for right hooks and all kinds of other mayhem.
I hope you're misquoting the law; if not, it is a freakin' criminally bad law.
janssenrider1
08-21-07, 01:39 PM
oh man has that line of thinking ever gotten me thrown in jail. you must know that your average policeman is strongly prejudiced in the favor of a car-driver right? i hope you like the feeling of handcuffs.
actually i just finished a court case last week where i and my roommate got into a confrontation with some crazy, old guy in a van. He plead guilty to assault with a deadly weapon, and got 18 months of probation and 40 hours of community service. Had we actually been severely hurt/dead of course he would have gotten more, but all it amounted to was a bump of his car and a u-lock, blackjack standoff. Which i found out is a considered a concealed weapon, at least here in Chicago. but in reality the cops who helped us file the case were more than friendly, they offered us cigarettes as we watched them rip the man from his car.
spencejm
08-21-07, 03:18 PM
The biggest asshats I've seen are the "cyclists." I use the quotes because I believe that a real cyclist would not behave the way these morons do. I was in my 3/4 ton pickup one evening and stopped at a 4 way stop. A guy all decked out in his race replica gear comes up on my right side and just blows through the stop sign. It wasn't his turn. I started up and pulled up next to him, giving him plenty of room and asked him if he was aware he had just run the stop sign. I got the finger. I explained to him that it was unwise to be flipping off a guy driving a 3/4 pickup while he was on a bike. He flipped me off again.
A large part of the problem is that the average car driver sees cyclists ignoring all of the rules of the road and then whining that cars don't treat them as equals. If you want to be treated equal to a car then start obeying the law. If you want to be treated like a child who belongs in the driveway then just keep acting like one.
Joe
A large part of the problem is that the average car driver sees cyclists ignoring all of the rules of the road and then whining that cars don't treat them as equals. If you want to be treated equal to a car then start obeying the law. If you want to be treated like a child who belongs in the driveway then just keep acting like one.
Sums it up nicely.
I think Susan Ferrando, who had her back window bashed in after plowing into a group of cyclists in SF some months ago, will think twice before doing so again.
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/04/04/ba_m_r_0001_kr.jpg
boilermaker1
08-21-07, 05:55 PM
Boy, you really have some tough customers in San Francisco. Rough town, eh?
I think Susan Ferrando, who had her back window bashed in after plowing into a group of cyclists in SF some months ago, will think twice before doing so again.
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/04/04/ba_m_r_0001_kr.jpg
Typical Critical Mass shenanigans. I'm so glad they're out there advocating for me. Way to raise the bar, err U-Lock.
Indeed....:lol: my weapon will make sure everyone is civil. *sigh*
Just like Dad's belt makes sure the kids are well behaved.
Heh who needs a weapon? We are a weapon.
In all seriousness I will not stand for idiocy from drivers peds or cyclists. As for what some one said about damaging a car because it got to close well ive messed up a few cars over the last 3 or 4 seasons. One was me kicking the hell out of the already damaged driers door another was a woman passing me 40 to 50 feet from a church just to get there in time i unclipped lifted my left leg up and out of the way and got her passenger side with my left pedal accidentally the 3rd time i remember was kicking off of some old mans right rear quarter panel when he went clear in to the left turn only lane for a right turn. So of the 3 times i damaged a car in recent years 2 were do to the fact i was attempting to avoid injury and the other time was because i was in immediate danger and had to take control of the situation then and there.
That's the point, you would have never imagined a response like what occurred. But they do occur.
So cyclist should just accept nearly being ran down and not give it a second thought?
Good idea that way drivers learn that hey we can do what ever we want and if one day we kill some one we can say hey it was a accident i passed him with a couple inches to spare as we always do and never had this happen and well they never seem to mind as they never said any thing about it.
Sorry no some moron comes that close i will tell them one way or another what they did is not acceptable. Do things like this happen sure they do but in general people are cowards when confronted they will turn tail. Most of these bozo drivers are little more than the school yard bully with some exceptions. Just like one kid in my school who we all thought of as the typical school yard bully up until the day he grabbed another kid by his hair and smashed his face in to a fence pole 3 times. It took me and a friend of mine to pull him off the kid. In the end my friend helped the kid up and i basically beat the crap out of the psycho kid. That was back in like 4th or 5th grade. The same kid as a adult ended up running a guy down in his car in a parking lot of a grocery store. Hes now serving live in the mental ward of some max security prison.
So yeh there are exceptions to all general rules of thumb. But you can not consider every person on the street to be that exception. When you start doing that you stop enjoying life and end up looking over your shoulder do to paranoia.
Winter76
08-22-07, 08:29 AM
Stay within a meter of parked cars? That's insane. And staying near the curb at intersections is a recipe for right hooks and all kinds of other mayhem.
I hope you're misquoting the law; if not, it is a freakin' criminally bad law.
You are correct I was misquoting it and infact this makes me feel better:
http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/h060_2e.php#145
Operation next to curb
145(5) A person operating a bicycle or power-assisted bicycle on a highway shall operate it
(a) as closely as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, unless the highway is designated for traffic in one direction and has three or more traffic lanes; or
(b) as closely as practicable to the right- or left-hand edge or curb of the roadway, if the highway is designated for traffic in one direction and has three or more traffic lanes.
Thanks Divergence!
paralegal1973
08-22-07, 11:02 AM
Here in Albuquerque, CAR IS KING!! In the past few weeks I've had at least three incidents of impatient cagers. I have a Timbuk2 bag and have started snapping my Kryptonite NYC (8lb) lock to the outside so as to get to it easier and quicker. I'M ALSO SICK OF BEING PUSHED AROUND!!!!!!!!!!
I've often wondered whether a holstered gun conspicuously strapped onto my messenger bag strap would calm some of these air polluting Hitlers down? What do you think?
janssenrider1
08-22-07, 12:48 PM
I've often wondered whether a holstered gun conspicuously strapped onto my messenger bag strap would calm some of these air polluting Hitlers down? What do you think?
i don't know if it'll calm them down or not, but it could be the start of what might turn out to be a very time-consuming, yet entertaining, game. Evade the Cops.
So cyclist should just accept nearly being ran down and not give it a second thought?
At no point did I say that. But the reality of it is, you can punch and scream, throw little tantrums and destroy others property all you want, it won't change the fact that there are jackass motorists and cyclists out there.
So of the 3 times i damaged a car in recent years 2 were do to the fact i was attempting to avoid injury and the other time was because i was in immediate danger and had to take control of the situation then and there.
No where do I see how you were in any eminent danger. If so, you wouldn't have had anytime to do anything but steer out of the situation. You damaged others property because it gave you that tough guy feeling.
Congratulations, you moved the bar down for us.
littlewaywelt
08-22-07, 02:30 PM
Yeah, why bother having a spine in this situation, right dobber?
spine? Spine is having enough self control and emotional maturity to not let emotion or ego cause a problem to get exponentially worse. Not letting the situation go before it gets worse or aggravating the situation is the surest sign of immaturity. Having spine as you put it will never cause the motorist to change opinions. It can only have two outcomes, he ignores you, or he gets angry, the later of which can have dire consequences.
Is your ego so easilly bruised or valueable that you'd risk going to jail or the hospital for it merely to make you feel better in an interaction that isn't likely to last more than 30 seconds?
lubes17319
08-23-07, 10:25 AM
Guns?
"Let me tell you something, bendeco. You pull any your crazy **** with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you and stick it up your ass and pull the ****ing trigger til it goes 'click'."
I think you'd do better with a shirt that says NRA in large letters than a visible gun.
Another possibility is to wear a shirt that looks like it could be part of a police uniform, and have "polite" printed on the back of it.
LittleBigMan
08-23-07, 05:47 PM
What all this "stand up" stuff forgets is the other side of the equation: there are many good people out there, and there is good in everyone. If people see you are behaving decently, they might reciprocate, and often do.
But flip the coin: if you act up noticeably, you invite the same. If the motorist that hassles you gets the same from you, he either laughs, or gets mad and does worse.
I'm not saying roll over and play dead. Just that people often respond to you according to the signals you send out.
Peace.
Guns?
"Let me tell you something, bendeco. You pull any your crazy **** with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you and stick it up your ass and pull the ****ing trigger til it goes 'click'."
It's pretty sad, but hey, if there were CCW laws everywhere, people would be more polite to each other. Works in Texas and Florida. It used to be the norm than the exception also. Watched a show on "Gangster Guns" where they were showing these small 1 or 2 shot .22's with an old timer saying about how polite society was back in the day because everyone was packing.
Hmm... wonder if they make them in Ti/Carbon to reduce the weight?? :)
It used to be the norm than the exception also. Watched a show on "Gangster Guns" where they were showing these small 1 or 2 shot .22's with an old timer saying about how polite society was back in the day because everyone was packing
They were also robbing stagecoaches and shooting each other for cheatin a poker games. The Japanese don't have CCW yet they seem to have achieved a society of politeness.
Maybe they're all packing samurai swords.
boilermaker1
08-24-07, 07:10 AM
They were also robbing stagecoaches and shooting each other for cheatin a poker games. The Japanese don't have CCW yet they seem to have achieved a society of politeness.
Maybe they're all packing samurai swords.
Actually that was right, though only Japanese elites and their retainer class were allowed weapons. Their willingness to use violence kept everybody polite, fellow aristos included. Pressure to commit suicide for "disgraceful" behavior also worked to keep the elites and their retainers in line, I doubt that the average Japanese fella cared much about that though until Bushido was changed and redirected at commoners after the Mejii Restoration.
The biggest asshats I've seen are the "cyclists." I use the quotes because I believe that a real cyclist would not behave the way these morons do. I was in my 3/4 ton pickup one evening and stopped at a 4 way stop. A guy all decked out in his race replica gear comes up on my right side and just blows through the stop sign. It wasn't his turn. I started up and pulled up next to him, giving him plenty of room and asked him if he was aware he had just run the stop sign. I got the finger. I explained to him that it was unwise to be flipping off a guy driving a 3/4 pickup while he was on a bike. He flipped me off again.
I've had similar happen, but the difference was the the guy in the race gear blew a red light at an intersection that isn't particularly busy. However, he didn't see/hear me coming at him at the 45mph speed limit. I had very little reaction time and ended up braking hard to avoid him. He got a nice long blast of the horn. He gave me the finger. It really makes me wonder if some of these idiots have never taken high school level physics. Had I been speeding like many do in the area, he certainly would have been hit, killed, and possibly caused injury to me if I hit a pole or wall post collision. It was pretty frustrating that he acted like I was a terrible sinner for having the right of way.
Here in Albuquerque, CAR IS KING!! In the past few weeks I've had at least three incidents of impatient cagers. I have a Timbuk2 bag and have started snapping my Kryptonite NYC (8lb) lock to the outside so as to get to it easier and quicker. I'M ALSO SICK OF BEING PUSHED AROUND!!!!!!!!!!
I've often wondered whether a holstered gun conspicuously strapped onto my messenger bag strap would calm some of these air polluting Hitlers down? What do you think?
I live in Albuquerque, and yeah, cars are king here. Why? Because it's a pretty lousy place for cycling, everything is far away from everything else, and the public transit is horrible. Maybe things will ease up a bit if we get those new streetcar things. In any case, I'd say that a gun is a bad idea. If you do anything that could potentially be percieved as a threat of physical harm, you have to be prepared to face the consequences.
I'm not sure exactly what the laws concerning this are, but imagine it from the reverse perspective: someone in a car pulls a gun on you for violating their right of way/their perception of you violating their right of way, and then gestures threatingly to you with it. At the very least, this is probably considered road rage. If caught, they'd probably be headed to jail. I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for you as a result of you approaching a motorist with a weapon.
That being said, I've lived here for my whole life. Honestly, it's really not that bad. I cycle on a slow BMX, and I will ride this on the street when I need/want to. I really have never had a problem with anything other than stupid teenagers yelling and hitting the horn.
A final note: I can understand it when cyclists call motorists "cagers". However, I am NOT Hitler for owning a car. Hitler killed millions of innocent people because of their ethnic background. For you to equate car owner with a murderer of six million people is not only mildly offensive, it marks you as an unintelligent person.
Blue Order
08-24-07, 07:43 PM
I think Susan Ferrando, who had her back window bashed in after plowing into a group of cyclists in SF some months ago, will think twice before doing so again.
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/04/04/ba_m_r_0001_kr.jpgHey Scarry, how many "cyclists" did Susan Ferrando plow into? :rolleyes:
Hey Scarry, how many "cyclists" did Susan Ferrando plow into? :rolleyes:
None, it was the typical CM drama queen event with the poor cyclists playing victim.
Blue Order
08-24-07, 07:49 PM
Getting too close to a bicyclist is NOT assault.It is assault if that was the driver's intent.
It is assault if that was the driver's intent.
Expalin that bit of logic Sparky. It's assault if it wasn't but the intent was to not be?
You've got a bright and shiny legal career with befuddlin logic like that.
Blue Order
08-25-07, 04:39 PM
Expalin that bit of logic Sparky. It's assault if it wasn't but the intent was to not be?
You've got a bright and shiny legal career with befuddlin logic like that.If the driver makes a dangerously close pass with the intent to scare you, that's assault. If the driver inadvertently makes a dangerously close pass, there's no intent to scare you, and therefore, no assault.
dzinehaus
08-25-07, 05:13 PM
an incident that happened to me recently was this:
I was riding in the city on a well travelled road in the morning where construction was on the right hand shoulder. So I ride in (what was left of the right lane) the middle of the right lane... Then this lady starts honking at me. I kept riding and let the lady pass. I look over and she flips me the bird... Luckily the light turned red for her and I got there at the same time as she did. I knock on her window and ask her to roll down the window to have a conversation.She panicks and realised her folly of trying to run some one off the road. I yell out loud enough 'WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT LADY??? WHAT'S THE IDEA OF DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT???' she promptly looked down at her door lock and locked the door and continued to flip me the bird. As soon as the light turned green she starts peeling the corner WHILE the pedestrians are crossing and continues to plow through them. The pedestrians had to graciously but frustratingly move out of the way for said civil lady driver.
Bright idea lady. Thank god i'm civil and didn't bash in her window to talk. I hope that she understood the point and will be more civil next time.
That's my 2 cents to a similar incident. You don't need to be violent, but at the same time I can understand your buddy's reaction.
Blue Order
08-25-07, 05:21 PM
she promptly looked down at her door lock and locked the door and continued to flip me the bird.:lol:
I just love it when people play act at being tough...
But first lock the door! :eek:
:roflmao:
an incident that happened to me recently was this:
I was riding in the city on a well travelled road in the morning where construction was on the right hand shoulder. So I ride in (what was left of the right lane) the middle of the right lane... Then this lady starts honking at me. I kept riding and let the lady pass. I look over and she flips me the bird... Luckily the light turned red for her and I got there at the same time as she did. I knock on her window and ask her to roll down the window to have a conversation.She panicks and realised her folly of trying to run some one off the road.
I guess I missed the bit about her trying to run you off the road. I saw something about honking and then passing. Must have been between the lines.
LittleBigMan
08-25-07, 10:16 PM
...someone in a car pulls a gun on you for violating their right of way/their perception of you violating their right of way, and then gestures threatingly to you with it. At the very least, this is probably considered road rage. If caught, they'd probably be headed to jail. I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for you as a result of you approaching a motorist with a weapon.
I was talking to "Jeff" yesterday on the job. I noticed he had an interesting belt buckle.
It read, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers." It showed a guy holding a rifle, he was a skeleton.
We talked a bit about family, etc. Then I mentioned that some people I knew wanted to carry a gun on the bike for protection (he knows me as a regular cyclist.)
He said, "That's two activities that both need complete concentration, they don't go together."
DGirlLA
08-26-07, 02:41 AM
I witnessed a murder twenty years ago. Two guys in a station wagon were flying down the alley in back of my house, and got "too close" to a pedestrian. They didn't touch him, but they startled him. The guy responded by kicking their car.
The two of them jumped out of the car, and stabbed him to death, while I watched, pounding on my window, screaming. They jumped back in their car and were out of there. The whole thing took maybe a minute.
Of course, they didn't actually need the knives. They were driving a several ton weapon. The number of cyclists on this forum who don't recognize that a car itself is a deadly weapon amazes me.
And it completely doesn't matter that the ped was right and the driver was wrong. It doesn't matter that the ped "stood up for himself" and showed what big brass ones he had.
What matters is that he's dead.
spencejm
08-27-07, 01:55 PM
What amazes me is that in almost every story of a "cyclist" who smashes a window or kicks the side of car the car driver "learns a lesson" and meekly drives away. I don't buy it. Where I live the driver would immediately turn around and he wouldn't miss on the second pass. Your best case scenario is that he would stop and call the police. I live in a cycling friendly community but if you kick the side of a car because you feel he got too close you will lose the argument with the police. All of these people that claim they get away with it either live around a bunch of wimpy car drivers or they're full of you know what.
Joe
What amazes me is that in almost every story of a "cyclist" who smashes a window or kicks the side of car the car driver "learns a lesson" and meekly drives away. I don't buy it. Where I live the driver would immediately turn around and he wouldn't miss on the second pass. Your best case scenario is that he would stop and call the police. I live in a cycling friendly community but if you kick the side of a car because you feel he got too close you will lose the argument with the police. All of these people that claim they get away with it either live around a bunch of wimpy car drivers or they're full of you know what.
Joe
I guess some cyclists can take off like cowards though in that period of "wtf my window got smashed??" of the driver. If traffic is heavy enough, I guess they might get away. But still, I know if someone bashed my window in, I'd call the police, give a description, and possibly divert from my route and try to catch up to the cyclist/look for their bike. If that didn't work, given the time, I'd be lying in wait to catch up with them the next day in the same location.
paralegal1973
09-18-07, 01:59 PM
From synOn A final note: I can understand it when cyclists call motorists "cagers". However, I am NOT Hitler for owning a car. Hitler killed millions of innocent people because of their ethnic background. For you to equate car owner with a murderer of six million people is not only mildly offensive, it marks you as an unintelligent person.[/quote]
I use Hitler because like Hitler, automobile drivers are egocentric AND the exhaust that exudes from their autos is the cause behind millions of deaths, probably even more than Hitler could ever imagine!
Let's rethink this: Maybe I should label the manufacturers of automobiles as "the murderers of six million people" and the cagers as the SS, or the cagers as the sheepish citizens that blindly went about their business without question? Hmmmm.
TRaffic Jammer
09-18-07, 02:03 PM
Wtf?
Let's rethink this: Maybe I should label the manufacturers of automobiles as "the murderers of six million people" and the cagers as the SS, or the cagers as the sheepish citizens that blindly went about their business without question? Hmmmm.
Paint chips?
Gordiep
09-18-07, 06:34 PM
Paint chips?
Sometimes stupidity doesn't have a reason.
I use Hitler because like Hitler, automobile drivers are egocentric AND the exhaust that exudes from their autos is the cause behind millions of deaths, probably even more than Hitler could ever imagine!
Let's rethink this: Maybe I should label the manufacturers of automobiles as "the murderers of six million people" and the cagers as the SS, or the cagers as the sheepish citizens that blindly went about their business without question? Hmmmm.
Are you serious? You can't be... can you? I don't even want to respond to this, but you do realise that things other than cars can emit CO2, right? Like your house, from which you sit and read this message? Unless you're homeless, you're harming the enivironment simply by living a modern lifestyle.
Gordiep
09-18-07, 07:45 PM
Are you serious? You can't be... can you? I don't even want to respond to this, but you do realise that things other than cars can emit CO2, right? Like your house, from which you sit and read this message? Unless you're homeless, you're harming the enivironment simply by living a modern lifestyle.
Every time we take a breath....
paralegal1973
09-19-07, 09:40 AM
I don't even want to respond to this, but you do realise that things other than cars can emit CO2, right?
synOn, you are absolutely correct. We as Americans, or as humans in a modern world, are responsible for our fair share, some more than others-like you drivers-, of pollutants. Electricity and natural gas from our homes are also culprits...electricity from this computer as well.
The use of Hitler was to get a point across. The damage done by you, along with every other driver (myslef included, I drove a car for 7 years, have been car-free for 12), in the world and especially the West, is incalculable. Also, there isn't enough space on the BF server to list the atrocities committed in YOURs and others' names for the sake of oil. I don't see how you or anyone else on this forum can get into an automobile, or watch an auto commercial and not want to vomit! I just find the complacency amazing. To soften the conversation-->Granted, you and others are doing your part by riding bicycles. Thank you.
Yeah, I am not homeless, so, in turn, I must harm the environment by living a modern lifestyle. BUT, I sure as hell have reduced my carbon footprint by choosing not to drive, among many other lifestyle choices that are simply good sense! I live in Albuquerque as well and it hasn't been easy living here without a car, in fact, it has been down right inconvenient most of the time.
I like Gordiep's respone, "Sometimes stupidity doesn't have a reason." Maybe it was the use of Hitler that made everyone so upset. Most of the time the truth, thrown in someone's face, makes them very upset. You guys are akin to alcoholics at an intervention!
I know how we are all so concerned with words and the emotions they evoke. Yeah, I should have used WWII German Citizens instead of Hitler, because that's what cagers are. Keep watching your auto commercials where they blatantly drive through the forest destroying natural habitat and pristine beauty, where they equate a car with "Freedom", keep salivating and being indoctrinated. You are the destroyer.
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