Road Cycling - These Wheels stink...

In a recent post I mentioned that after cleaning my ride, I spun up the wheels by hand and seemed to feel a lot of friction. Needless to say they stopped fairly quickly. Someone suggested I adjust the lock nuts for lack of a better term. Which I did. It seems I have a choice. I either live with the friction or allow my wheels to wobble. There seems to be no middle ground.

There is also these rubber boots that protect the bearings, but they too simply add friction to the wheel.

The wheel set is a Ritchey Comp. I'm thinking about replacing them with Mavic Ksyrium Elites. Will I have the same problems or are the Ritchey wheels just not that good?

Also any other suggestions for wheels for a good middle distance rider with no aspirations for racing but doesn't want to give up speed due to cheap parts. And what about used wheels on Ebay - hit or pass?

Thanks all for your input.

R

I have 2001 Ksyrium SSC wheels and so far I haven't had to do a thing to them... not even retruing. They've been totally maintenance free and I've hit quite a few deep potholes and some curbs too. They spin as freely as they did new. Very solid wheels and I would recommend them. They are a bit pricey though and some people have issues with the special spokes. The newer SSC SLs are even lighter but I'm not sure exactly what the design differences are beteen the older SSC and the Elites though.

I have the Ksyriums as well and they're rock solid...

God...I've run through some REALLY nasty pot holes at high speed. ridden over all sorts of crap conditions, and as far as I can tell, they're as true as when I first got them. YMMV but I've been very impressed with these rims.

I have to agree with the others I have the Ksyrium SSC (I think 2001), I trued them one time since the front was about 1mm off (I was just being picky).. Definately a rock solid wheelset.

Campy Neutrons are another good choice.

This is an odd question to be asking a roadie, but is the axle bent? The problem you're describing matches that pretty well.

If it's not, not only do you have to loosen the locknuts, but also the cones, then torque the locks into the cones without unadjusting the cones...

It takes cone wrenches and an experienced tech. It takes me a minute to asses and adjust.

You might want to check having some custom wheels built for you, Chris King Classic Hubs with Mavic Open Pro or Bontranger Valiant rims should be pretty sweet wheels for about the same price

you can always have wheels built...

My roadbike has Shimano XTR Hubs (had to adjust the rear 5mm wider though).. They are rock solid and super smooth and tightly sealed..

I bought a pair of Rigida rims (the lightest I could find that would fit my budget)..

There are a lot of spokes to choose from...

you can get a set of wheels built that are cheaper and lighter than the mavics everyone's touting. they don't have quite the "cool" factor, but that's what i'd do if i were getting new wheels.

Originally posted by pgreene
you can get a set of wheels built that are cheaper and lighter than the mavics everyone's touting. they don't have quite the "cool" factor, but that's what i'd do if i were getting new wheels.

cool factor? what's that? (just kidding:D )

I agree...

Let's just call custom built wheels an understatement....

I just bought a set of Ksyrium Elite's to replace the clunky stock wheels that came with my LeMond Tourmalet. If you are worried about friction- these wheels are GREAT. If I take the wheel off, and just spin it, it will spin MUCH longer than my old wheels would, FWIW.

I've only got 100 miles on them, but I LOVE them.. Great wheels.

(and yes- there is that "cool" factor.. IMO, they look great on my Tourmalet)

-BlueDevil

Originally posted by Farmer John
This is an odd question to be asking a roadie, but is the axle bent?
No - not bent. The friction I'm experiencing is a little grinding as if the cones are too tight and jambed down on the bearings. I found it a little tricky to get the cones in the right place and then tighten it all down. Thought I had it to a place where they were spinning nice only to find the wheel wobbled once on the bike.

I'm learning that you get what you pay for...
I should have done some more home work and done it right the first time.

And I agree with pgreene - I do like the look of the Elites and SSC. But as my momma always told me - looks aren't everything.:eek:

Thanks for the input - anyone have any thoughts on buying wheels on Ebay? With something so important, I'd hate to get a wheel set only to find that although it should run smooth and true, it's screwed up and that's why they were such a deal...:mad:

R

Originally posted by pgreene
you can get a set of wheels built that are cheaper and lighter than the mavics everyone's touting. they don't have quite the "cool" factor, but that's what i'd do if i were getting new wheels.
Lots of wheelsets are lighter but not better.I had performance swap the stock,lighter wheelsets on my bike for these,100g heavier but a much better wheelset.

Have you tried to clean the races and bearings?

You said you tightened the cones but a good cleaning and fresh grease can do wonders.

I've only got 600 miles on them.. Perhaps this begs the questions - what's the frequency of that kind of maintanence?
I have no problem doing it - just didn't think I needed to do it so soon.
But it will give me the chance to inspect the cones and see if I've got some wear - which would explain some of the grinding...

Do most of these wheel sets out there have loose bearings or do some have fixed bearing rings that can be pulled easier?

God I love all this - can't wait to get home and get my hands dirty again...!
Yeah I'm nuts - but there's something about pulling it all apart and being able to put it all back together that gives me a thrill (unless I have extra parts and then I sulk)
R

Originally posted by pinky
You might want to check having some custom wheels built for you, Chris King Classic Hubs with Mavic Open Pro or Bontranger Valiant rims should be pretty sweet wheels for about the same price :beer: Cheers Pinky, I’m with you on this one. I have been running Chris King hubs, 32 holes with Open Pro rims and couldn't be happier. The King hubs are bomb proof, engage very quickly and very light 107g front, 265g rear). Open Pros at 425g are also svelte and strong. Both hubs and wheels can be serviced by your local shop, or yourself if you are mechanically minded. Many of the engineered wheel sets have to be sent back to the mfr. for service, and if you have a problem on during a ride you are grabbing your cell phone to get ride from the 'Team Car'. The Chris King rear makes a sound all its own when you coast, kind of like a fishing reel. You can A) get used to it. B) re-lube it every 2,000 miles, really helps make it quiet C) don't coast so much, you should be pedalling anyway.

Couple of tips.

1) Count the number of bearings before you even think about removing them. Count them a couple of times to make sure.

2) Make sure everything is dry before you rebuild.


Park Hub Rebuild (http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_hub.shtml)

This should help.

GOOD LORD!!!

Buying a new set of wheels is an awfully expensive and wasteful way to solve the simple problem of a misadjusted set of hub bearings!

Any shop worth a fart can repack and adjust hub cup&cones, or replace cartridge bearings (whichever you have) in a couple minutes.

hayneda

I'm up for building a set of wheels.
Can I assume that if I buy a hub - it's a complete setup? (except the QR)
Then obviously I need spokes and rims.
I've heard that the flat spokes are more aerodynamic, but a pain to deal with.
And then how dificult is it to true a wheel. I'm sure I'll need a wheel stand for that... Cool more tools - the wife will hate this!!
Frankly, I like the fishing reel sound a hub makes - so the Kings might be perfect. When buying all this - are there different sizes of spokes - and that about these off center wheels (like my Ritchey) do I need to worry about that at all?

This is going to be fun!

how much are you looking to spend total?

Raedeke, Have you built wheels before? If not, you might want to check in your area to see if anyone offers a wheelbuilding clinic. I took one two years ago, offered at a local shop, it was very helpful. Wheels look simple but there is a lot to know in building up a set from scratch. Here is a link to Sheldon Brown's primer on wheelbuilding, it should answer many of your questions.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Hayneda -
You sound just like my wife!? No offense. My stock wheels are heavy and slow. And the long term goal is to build up a nice Pinarello or other exotic frame. So buying or building a good set of wheels worthy of such a frame is the goal. And keep the old set to ride the two year old around on in her Chariot. (Burley)

I'd like to stay under $400.00. The wife would like them to be free - but unless she plans on seeing me during visiting hours at the local slammer - I think I'll have to fork out the cash -

However that being said - my view is I have a budget - but I'm also open to finding that what I really want or need will cost me more and in the end change my budget to fit the kind of quality I'm looking for.

A better answer to the budget question is. I want a set of wheels that will last 5 years or so. I ride a lot of 20-30 mile flat course and do get out and hit the mountains, which will include the decents. I also plan on some centuries and multi-day tours. I'd like a set of wheels that will be consistent with a high end frame - when ever I have the money to go there. Will build it up with Dura-Ace or Ultegra - might go Campy on it, but who knows...

there's a guy out in arizona who builds a pretty amazing wheelset. everyone i know who's used him has raved about them. he builds up a set lighter than kyseriums with bladed spokes for a bit over $500. he doesn't build a lot of wheels, so he'll tune them specifically to you. a bit over your budget, but worth thinking about.

Chris King hubs would definatley be a solid option, they will last a LONG time, some peopel complain about the noise they make when coasting but that is a personal preference. As for rims I really like Velocity rims check out the Velocity Fusion rim they are more fairly aero rims but not extremely deep so not as large a problem with cross windw. As for the Aero spokes alot of times you have to drill out the hub to get them to fit, easier to just go with double butted spoke they are thiner in the middle then on the end so absorb more shock and are lighter.


There is two excellent books on wheel building, I forget the name off-hand I'm sure some of the others will know it though. Also check out the barnet manual in the top of the forum.

Just to give you a idea of the cost.. Chris King front and rear hub will run you around $310.. Open Pro or Velocity Fusion rims will run you around $60 a piece.. then you need to buy spokes.. This would give you a excellent wheelset though.

Ok. the reason you are having trouble is that you are adjusting them too tight. they shoud be slightly wobbly, with a tiny bit of slop. when you put it on the bike, and tighten the QR, then it will be tight enough to not have slop. you just have to feel it out. RItchey comps are not crappy wheels by any stretch of the imagination.

Phatman's got it right -- you have to allow for a little additional tightening from the skewer when adjusting hub bearings. The QR will compress the axle slightly; not much, but enough to make an overly-tight adjustment if you set the bearings such that all the slop is gone from the bearings before tightening the skewer. Chapter 12 (http://www.bikeforums.net/barnettes/barnetts_ch12.pdf) of the Barnett's manual explains this in much greater detail. It mentions using an axle vise from either Park or Stein, but if you can't find them in your LBS you can do the job fine with a heavy-duty angle bracket. Go to your favorite hardware store and find a 90-degree angle bracket, making sure that it's one of the big ones with 3/8" holes and very thick material. This will work perfect for making a skewer tightening fixture that you can clamp in a bench vise and adjust the wheel. With the axle compressed by the skewer you can then adjust the cones so that the slack just comes out of the bearings but the wheel still turns free and then tighten the locknut (while holding the cone adjustment with a cone wrench) to hold the adjustment. Check the wheel and make sure it turns freely; if not, loosen the locknut a little bit and then use the cone wrench to back the cone out just a bit and tighten it against the locknut. A small bit of trial and error is all it should take to get a perfect adjustment. The wheel should turn freely with no binding and should slow to a stop very gradually and have no slop when the skewer is tight. Off the bike (or out of the bench fixture) you should notice a little bit of play in the bearings -- don't worry about it, the slack gets taken up when the QR is tightened when the wheel is on the bike.

Here's the tool I use for adjusting hub bearings:

Here's the tool attached to the wheel with the skewer tightened:

Here's the whole thing clamped into a bench vise:

The rest of the fun happens here while you get the bearings adjusted. Note that the usual skewer nut has been replaced by a 5 mm nut to allow plenty of clearance for wrenches and sockets while adjusting and tightening things:

Originally posted by BlueDevil
I just bought a set of Ksyrium Elite's to replace the clunky stock wheels that came with my LeMond Tourmalet. -BlueDevil

I am buying a new bike next year and the LeMond's are, as of now, leading the list. How do you like the Tourmalet? What did you ride before and how does it compare?

Awesome method!