Commuting - something cheap

if I have to spend $1,000 to save on gas, I'll drive.
So I figure i'll get something cheap and it seems the only options are old garage sale / craigslist beaters, and poorly built, cheap-part walmart bikes.
the walmart bikes are cheaper than anything i can find on craigslist, and I'm assuming they use all the latest technology (if the crappiest of that latest technology), so are more easily upgraded? i know, having previously owned an old beater, there there's an issue with upgrading parts on obsolete bikes.
In my own opinion, a walmart peice would be much better than an old beater, since it's (1) cheaper and (2) more easily upgraded. But I read some dude's post on another thread saying just the opposite, so i thought I'd as you guys.

I guess I should list the specific walmart bikes I'm looking at:
GMC Denali, Schwinn Varsity, and Kent GMC Yukon

Check ebay for good classic bikes, like this one...
ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160148434030&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006)

If you want something new and cheap you may want to check out one of these http://www.pakebikes.com/nunubatmobile.html
I have no personal experience with the pake urban, but they are catching my attention, and for $280 it seems like a great deal. If i can get to a shop that has them i will give it a try as i was thinking of picking on of these up for my girlfriend, IMO girls look hot as hell on these style bikes.

My brother got a brand new Trek 3700 for $300 after tax and it's been a rock solid commuter. On the other hand, I ride a '93 Mongoose in every kind of weather you can imagine, and it's like an indestructible tank . I have another similar Mongoose (only it's an '88) that I recently bought for $45. I can promise you it would be a much better commuter than anything at Walmart, etc.

the walmart bikes are cheaper than anything i can find on craigslist, and I'm assuming they use all the latest technology (if the crappiest of that latest technology), so are more easily upgraded? i know, having previously owned an old beater, there there's an issue with upgrading parts on obsolete bikes.
In my own opinion, a walmart peice would be much better than an old beater, since it's (1) cheaper and (2) more easily upgraded. But I read some dude's post on another thread saying just the opposite, so i thought I'd as you guys.

No, the Walmart bikes DO NOT use the latest technology. They are made to "look" like whatever's popular... that's why today they mostly look like dual-suspension bikes, and 20 years ago they mostly looked like 3-speeds or road bikes.

The Walmart bikes are deficient in literally every single component. The frames are heavy, badly welded, and badly painted... basically junk. Many of the components are obsolete. For example, the fake-dual-suspension bikes at Walmart use 1" threaded headsets, which means you could never upgrade to a better modern fork, stem, or headset (which are all 1-1/8" because it's stronger). The drivetrain components are crap, and typically not compatible with modern components from major manufacturers. The rear wheels always use freewheel gears (obsolete) instead of freehubs and cassettes, which are much stronger and also easier to work on. The wheels often have steel rims (obsolete), which have dangerously bad stopping power, and are very heavy. The wheels are often built so badly that they wobble and break spokes easily. Etc. etc. I suspect that the companies that make throwaway Walmart bikes buy up old tooling and manufacturing equipment from more reputable companies that are getting rid of it... and then they proceed to make parts which are of much lower quality than what was originally made with that equipment.

I have looked at Walmart bikes that people have thrown out in the alley behind my house, trying to decide if any of the parts were useful to me. I've decided that literally not a single component of a Walmart bike is worth reusing. Not even the saddles--which are uncomfortably soft--or the pedals, which have bad bearings, are made of flimsy plastic, and won't accept toe clips.

It is *much* easier to upgrade an old bike of good quality than a Walmart bike! For example, I converted a 1990 road bike into a modern one with STI shifters and light wheels for about $150 (getting a really good deal on used parts and doing the work myself). It is probably not worthwhile to upgrade a bike so heavily unless you can do the work yourself though.

Your best bet, I'd say, is to get an older bike in good condition, and enjoy it as-is rather than trying to do extensive upgrades. In the DC area, there are many good quality used road bikes on craiglist in the $100-200 range, sometimes cheaper, typically 5-25 years old. For example, I got a very nice Nishiki for $25 for my girlfriend, which needed nothing more than air in the tires, a new $10 chain, and a bit of grease on the bearings. The trick is you have to learn how to spot the deals and avoid the junk on craigslist. The best way to do it is to get a local cyclist friend to help you out! I've done this for a number of friends... they tell me they're looking for a bike, what their price range and size is, and I watch craigslist for a few days, and send them what I found. It's worked out really well for at least 4 of them!

I've actually been impressed with the quality of Wal-Mart type bikes recently. Although, I have to state this is "relative" level of being impressed, in that compared to the Wal-Mart bikes being offered 10 years ago, the new bikes they're selling are miles ahead in design and quality.

Even, so, you could find a good used bike for less than you can buy a new wal-mart bike.
Craigslist is filled with rip-off artists, profiteers, and people who are just plain clueless so they price high. You can try talking them down (which you can't do at walmart) or you can check your local bike shops for deals on used bikes. Occasionally decent bikes show up at thrift stores too, I once got a Miyata 110 for $24 at an ARC, and have owned quite a few passable quality bikes that I've found at thrift stores and garage sales.

Also depending on your commute, "upgrading" might be a senseless waste of money. If the bike functions, there's really no reason to "upgrade" - you're commuting to work - not racing.

if I have to spend $1,000 to save on gas, I'll drive.
So I figure i'll get something cheap and it seems the only options are old garage sale / craigslist beaters, and poorly built, cheap-part walmart bikes.


I'm a big believer in Craigslist if you can be patient. About half the bikes on there are crap. About a third of them are from people who think their 15 year old piece of s**t is a 'classic'. But if you can skim for a week, I'm pretty sure you'll find something like what you're looking for at a good deal. Probably depends where you live, but in the DC area Craigslist is great.

I got my current bike, a great entry/mid level road bike (older Giant OCR2) for $400. I've since seen the same bike offered for $350. Not necessarily everybody's idea of a commuter bike, but you could get the same quality commuter for the same or less. I bet if you tried, you could get a good bike, in near new shape, for $250-$500 that will do what you need it to do.

The reason why the used bike market is great is because so many people buy expensive bikes thinking they'll get into biking, and don't. They ride the bike 5 times and sell it 2 years later at 40-70% of the original value. Works for me.

Word of caution, though - it's amazing, at any given time, how many people are "moving" and need to sell their bike by "tomorrow night" and are willing to get rid of it for 1/3 what it's worth. Don't get involved with Craig's Fence. ;)

There are tons of nice, older bikes that sell on ebay for less than $200 shipped.
For instance, I'm absolutely kicking myself for not bidding more on this bike.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120148899170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002



I would never waste my money on a throwaway walmart bike. Besides, buying a bike that you're planning on upgrading is almost always a poor financial move.

There are tons of nice, older bikes that sell on ebay for less than $200 shipped.
For instance, I'm absolutely kicking myself for not bidding more on this bike.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120148899170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002
Wow! That's an amazing deal, with Shimano 600 Arabesque. Presumably it was so cheap because it's a very large frame size. I have mostly given up on eBay, since it's usually a lot more expensive than Craigslist, and I can't try the bikes out... guess I'll have to give it a second look!

I forget the make and model buy my friend got a road bike off of ebay for $300. He promptly had it appraised for $700. It had a 9 speed Shimano Ultegra group set and it fit him, those are the parts that count ;-).

I guess I should list the specific walmart bikes I'm looking at:
GMC Denali, Schwinn Varsity, and Kent GMC Yukon

why would you go with a bike named after a car

I would never waste my money on a throwaway walmart bike. Besides, buying a bike that you're planning on upgrading is almost always a poor financial move.

well, i don't plan to upgrade a crap bike just to upgrade.
i had a beater whose freewheel went out. i needed a new one, and wanted to get a cassette (for moxfyre's reasons) and couldn't. worse, my last walmart bike's rims bent irreparably, and I actually couldn't find a new wheelset that fit!!!
so I mean to upgrade on an as-needed basis. having had bad experiences with both bike types, i was simply wondering which was the better of two evils. the way i see it, i commute 40 miles a day and i imagine that no matter the quality of my bike, components will fail. I imagine that starting cheap is just as good as starting expensive if i plan to replace on the go.

so it sounds like everyone is saying old bikes on craigslist over walmart anyday? thanks, good to know!

In my own opinion, a walmart peice would be much better than an old beater, since it's (1) cheaper and (2) more easily upgraded. But I read some dude's post on another thread saying just the opposite, so i thought I'd as you guys.
There are problems with upgradeability of the Walmart road bikes:
* some of them are single size only. You can't do anything with a bike frame that is too big or too small.
* you definitely need to upgrade the shifters, but good shifters are way too expensive.

But these factors are similar for the craigslist bikes.
* it's very difficult to buy a bike in your size
* if a bike is cheap, the components are not compatible with the modern ones.
You just ride them replacing the worn parts.

What to do? Go to www.bikesdirect.com (http://www.bikesdirect.com) or a similar site and buy the same Chinese bike as in Walmart having a better choice.

I would argue that it would be easier to upgrade parts on an old classic bike than it would be to try and maintain a cheap new bike. Look for good, reliable names like Trek and Cannondale. I just bought an '84 Bridgestone 300 off Craigslist and yeah, it needs some work, but the frame is in literally PERFECT condition. The people at the bike shop I went to to have it tuned up offered to buy it from me if I ever got tired of it!
The beauty of Craigslist is that you can try the bike out before you buy it. Ebay scares me.. Just shop around for awhile. I'm sure you'll find something you like.

(note: I live in mpls. and we have a very, very active Craigslist. If you don't live in a bigger city, you might not have the same selection..)

Look for good, reliable names like Trek and Cannondale.

I forgot to ask, while i'm the market for something used, what are good and bad brands?

I guess I should list the specific walmart bikes I'm looking at:
GMC Denali, Schwinn Varsity, and Kent GMC Yukon

Well, in all honesty... those are much better overall than the mountain bike crap that Walmart sells. Search around the forums for a few reviews of the GMC Denali, such as this fairly thorough one: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-237231.html

The Schwinn Varsity actually looks pretty decent to me. Less ugly than the GMC Denali, and has mechanically simpler shifters than the GMC Yukon (I wouldn't expect the STI shifters on a $300 bike to last long). If I couldn't do my own repairs, and if there weren't a steady supply of interesting 80s bikes around DC, I might go for one... though I don't like the lack of rack braze-ons and the solid axle rear hub :(

Even if you buy new, you don't need to spend $1000. I bought a new hybrid for $300, and I have 12000 miles on it. I'm happy.

Admittedly I spent another $500; $200 on lights, $200 on clothes, $100 on rack/panniers, but only the lights are essential and that only if you're riding at night. You can get by with a backpack and street clothes.

For value for the money, REI K2s are hard to beat. My wife and daughter picked up a couple and they're a pretty nice bike for $300, and well suited to commuting, IMHO. I have a Giant Cypress and it's in the same price range but not quite as nice.

windsor wellington? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm) Leeds? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/leeds08.htm)
Motobecane Mirage Sport? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/miragesport.htm)

hey, i forgot about REI! i'll have to hit them up, thanks

Performance Bikes???

you mean the ones i listed are performance bikes? should I be looking for something else?

windsor wellington? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm) Leeds? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/leeds08.htm)
Motobecane Mirage Sport? (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/miragesport.htm)


Just make a search here using the keywords "motobecane" or "windsor", but not in the Vintage forum.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ has a forum devoted to these bikes and the owner of BD visits it.

You want a cheap bike, buy it online. You know how to work on bikes, why pay extra to a shop.

why would you go with a bike named after a car

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/images/DD_Hummer.jpg
Good question. I just don't know.

But for the OP, buy a used bike at least. If you buy a Wal-Mart bike:

A) That money is going right out of your community
B) No free tune ups or anything
C) When you do need it to be fixed, your LBS won't like you because working on them is a pain
D) It was built by a savage Wal-Mart worker

I would argue that it would be easier to upgrade parts on an old classic bike than it would be to try and maintain a cheap new bike. Look for good, reliable names like Trek and Cannondale. I just bought an '84 Bridgestone 300 off Craigslist and yeah, it needs some work, but the frame is in literally PERFECT condition.
It's a nice bike, but it will be difficult to upgrade and maintain it for a 40-mile commute as the author wants.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1985/pages/11-bridgestone-300.html
* it has 27" wheels, rims and tires are difficult to find.
* it has stem shifters, they are obsolete. If he wants to change them to STI, he needs to change the derailleurs and housing
* it has a free wheel, it is obsolete
* the saddle cover is probably cracked
* the wheels might need to be trued
It's good for riding AS IS, improvements will cost money.

It's a nice bike, but it will be difficult to upgrade and maintain it for a 40-mile commute as the author wants.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1985/pages/11-bridgestone-300.html
* it has 27" wheels, rims and tires are difficult to find.
* it has stem shifters, they are obsolete. If he wants to change them to STI, he needs to change the derailleurs and housing
* it has a free wheel, it is obsolete
* the saddle cover is probably cracked
* the wheels might need to be trued
It's good for riding AS IS, improvements will cost money.

I agree that it's good as is... but I disagree about the freewheel and 27" wheels. Decent 27" tires for commuting use are still plentiful as far as I can tell. And 6/7 speed freewheels are easy to get. And there's nothing particularly wrong with non-STI shifters (I personally would switch them from stem shifters to Suntour bar-ends).

I guess I should list the specific walmart bikes I'm looking at:
GMC Denali, Schwinn Varsity, and Kent GMC Yukon

A $75 1970's Schwinn Touring bike will be a far better value than a modern Walmart bike at the same pricepoint.

I agree that it's good as is... but I disagree about the freewheel and 27" wheels. Decent 27" tires for commuting use are still plentiful as far as I can tell. And 6/7 speed freewheels are easy to get.Yes, you can maintain a bike by buying the older-style parts on the Internet and leaving it AS IS.

What if he wants to go to 9-speed? It's not just a new cassette, it should be a new wheel build with a new rear hub, at least. There is no sense in upgrading.

One thing I'd point out - this thread might give the impression (though I'm sure the authors don't intend it) that getting a relatively inexpensive used bike means getting something from the 1970s. That's definitely not the case - though there are a lot of bikes from around then still floating around that deserve to be upgraded. At the same time, you can get cheap used bikes that have either Shimano Sora or Tiagra components (sometimes better), usually 8- or 9-speed, that are compatible with current Shimano STI equipment.

What if he wants to go to 9-speed? It's not just a new cassette, it should be a new wheel build with a new rear hub, at least. There is no sense in upgrading.


You're right, there is no sense in upgrading - not because it's not cost-effective, but just because there's no point. You simply don't need a 9 or 10 speed cassette on a commute. I wouldn't turn it down, but if I were to buy one of these bikes I certainly wouldn't be planning to upgrade.

One thing I'd point out - this thread might give the impression (though I'm sure the authors don't intend it) that getting a relatively inexpensive used bike means getting something from the 1970s. That's definitely not the case - though there are a lot of bikes from around then still floating around that deserve to be upgraded. At the same time, you can get cheap used bikes that have either Shimano Sora or Tiagra components (sometimes better), usually 8- or 9-speed, that are compatible with current Shimano STI equipment.

This is a very good point, and one that I've tried to make before. You typically hear of the extremes in these discussions. People want to buy new, or they want a thrift-store bike for sub-$50. There are definitely plenty of bikes in the middle. It's hard to give advice though without knowing exactly what the budget is.

With a budget of say... $500... you can have your pick of very nice, barely used, modern bikes on ebay (bikes that originally sold for $1000 or more). For $200 you can get a high-quality older bike. Although I typically don't look for them, I'm sure there are plenty of modern bikes that sold in the sub-$1000 range out there as well. I seem to remember seeing more in the hybrid/mountain category than in the road category - because there are more of these bikes sold, and because road bikes tend to have a higher starting price.

My advice is always to buy used. A used bike bought at a good price can be resold for the same price. A new bike never can, and a walmart bike will have no resale value at all. I mention this because MOST people who buy bikes don't actually ride them - and those who do will often want to try something different. Being able to get your money back makes swapping bikes much less painful experience. I've bought seven used bikes in the last year and not lost a penny on the ones I've resold.

There's also this option from Sierra Trading Post:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/4287,83214_Marin-Novato-Commuter-Bike-2006.html

Hi Lefnire,
I know it gets old to hear people say you should just spend more money. I was in your shoes in the spring, and got talked out of the dept stores and into what I would call entry level bikes, and bikesdirect. I bought a Motobecane super mirage, and it has the first level of components that you should be willing to accept, which is Shimano Sora. Service wise, there is only so much good a mail order can do, but to give you an example I emailed them yesterday that I wanted to know if they carried a shorter stem, and they are sending one right out no charge. Props to them.

So if you're willing to throw three to four hundred at your bike project, that's one way to do it.

How far are you going each way? If it is under 6 miles or so, the bike is a non-issue and you could certainly make it work with a wall mart bike. If, however, you have a long way to go, I would absolutely have to disagree with your findings that older nicer bikes are inferior to modern dept. store bikes. In truth, the efficiency of nicer frames has not changed that much in the past 20 years and I find my $40 thrift store 1982 peugeot road bike (converted to single speed) to be almost as fast and just as fun to commute on as my Full Dura Ace Giant TCR0 sexy race bike (once it is up and rolling; acceleration is where you see big differences). I also commute a lot on a $90 full rigid jamis mountain bike from the mid 1990's that I absolutely love and refuse to part with.

If you want to be a commuter for the long haul, you need a bike that won't get in your way.

I would try to find a fully rigid rock hopper type mtb or an older name brand road bike (be careful of peugeots and italian bikes as they have different threading on many parts). They are cheap on ebay (less than $200) and you can still find the 7 and 8 speeds cassettes/freewheels that they run.

price range is $200-$400, it's 20mi each way (40mi/day).
i'm getting a lot of bikesdirect suggestions: motobecanes, windsors, and the like. on that previously suggested forum i found lots of positive and few negative reviews. $400 motobecanes are frequently compared to trek 1000, which is said to be a good-enough commuter.

i don't know about single-speed. it's 90% flat, which would be a boon for snglspd... but that 10% of grade is steep enough that I'd have to walk the bike up every time.

price range is $200-$400, it's 20mi each way (40mi/day).
i'm getting a lot of bikesdirect suggestions: motobecanes, windsors, and the like. on that previously suggested forum i found lots of positive and few negative reviews. $400 motobecanes are frequently compared to trek 1000, which is said to be a good-enough commuter.
Where do you live? In the DC area, as I've mentioned, you can get TONS of quality road bikes, 80s to recent, for $200-400. One of my coworkers just got an 80s Nishiki Touring Bike in very good condition, with computer, rack, and new tires... for $300 I think, and I felt that was overpriced but he was in a hurry to buy.

Maybe other people in your area can suggest good places to buy used. There are bike swap meets in many large metro areas, which I have found to offer many great deals and friendly people.

One bikesdirect bike that I really like the look of is the Windsor Tourist (http://bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm), which is $600. I am a big fan of the steel touring bike for making long commutes comfortable and efficient. It seems very comparable to the Bianchi Volpe, Surly Long Haul Trekker, or Fuji Touring which retail around $900. But it is a little on the expensive side, I know :( If you can find a steel touring bike, though, you'll probably be quite happy with it!

Where do you live? In the DC area, as I've mentioned, you can get TONS of quality road bikes, 80s to recent, for $200-400. One of my coworkers just got an 80s Nishiki Touring Bike in very good condition, with computer, rack, and new tires... for $300 I think, and I felt that was overpriced but he was in a hurry to buy.

Maybe other people in your area can suggest good places to buy used. There are bike swap meets in many large metro areas, which I have found to offer many great deals and friendly people.

One bikesdirect bike that I really like the look of is the Windsor Tourist (http://bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm), which is $600. I am a big fan of the steel touring bike for making long commutes comfortable and efficient. It seems very comparable to the Bianchi Volpe, Surly Long Haul Trekker, or Fuji Touring which retail around $900. But it is a little on the expensive side, I know :( If you can find a steel touring bike, though, you'll probably be quite happy with it!


This sweet volpe went for under $200 shipped a week or two ago.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150150074690&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

Speaking of craigslist etc - I found this on kijiji today:

http://kijiji.ebayimg.com/i12/03/k/000/77/c8/4938_20.JPG

They are asking 220 canadian - Is it a good deal?

I need something with straight wheels for the winter and there doesn't seem to be much up here that isn't considered 'classic' as mentioned above where they pay 500 and ten years later still want 250 because it's a 'great commuter' :rolleyes:

I commute on a 90's mongoose mountain bike that I got for 50 dollars off of Craigslist. You might have to work at it but you can certainly do better and cheaper than wal-mart.

I commute on a 90's mongoose mountain bike that I got for 50 dollars off of Craigslist. You might have to work at it but you can certainly do better and cheaper than wal-mart.
But Mongoose is a Walmart bike, isn't it:
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=4171&search_query=mongoose&Continue.x=0&Continue.y=0&Continue=Find&ic=24_0
The price for a new one is $100.

But Mongoose is a Walmart bike, isn't it:
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=4171&search_query=mongoose&Continue.x=0&Continue.y=0&Continue=Find&ic=24_0
The price for a new one is $100.

It is now, but there was a time when Mongoose was known for making decent mountain bikes. My Rockadile was $525 with a full chromoly frame and Shimano Exage components. And let's not forget the Mongoose Ampliphier full suspension bike. That was about as far from a Walmart bike as it gets.

It is now, but there was a time when Mongoose was known for making decent mountain bikes. My Rockadile was $525 with a full chromoly frame and Shimano Exage components. And let's not forget the Mongoose Ampliphier full suspension bike. That was about as far from a Walmart bike as it gets.
To be fair, you can still buy a $500 Mongoose bike, and you can buy it in Walmart:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5585806
I don't see why it's far from a decent mountain bike, except it's too heavy for commuting.

But Mongoose is a Walmart bike, isn't it:
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=4171&search_query=mongoose&Continue.x=0&Continue.y=0&Continue=Find&ic=24_0
The price for a new one is $100.

Like Schwinn, Mongoose is one of the brands sold to mass retailers that has both very very low and and some high end offerings. Back in the day (early 1990's), Mongoose was a great brand in both BMX and Mountain bikes. Today, you can buy a sub-$200 mongoose piece of crap or you can buy an $1,800 mongoose road bike with carbon fiber frame from performance bike. They are very different offerings.

i'm getting a lot of bikesdirect suggestions: motobecanes, windsors, and the like. on that previously suggested forum i found lots of positive and few negative reviews. $400 motobecanes are frequently compared to trek 1000, which is said to be a good-enough commuter.

Can I list what you should look in a long-distance commuter:
* size that fits you. Maybe, you should go to a bike shop with a ruler, sit on and test ride a few bikes, then measure them
* drop bars
* wide tires for comfort. 700x23 are too narrow, but some bikes don't allow to install anything wider
* a comfortable saddle
* eyelets for fenders and racks

This bike seems to be better suited for you among cheap Motobecanes.
http://bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/galaxy.htm

For a 40-mile commute I would consider an electric bike, but it's certainly out of the price range:
http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_category.php?id=109

Can I list what you should look in a long-distance commuter:
* size that fits you. Maybe, you should go to a bike shop with a ruler, sit on and test ride a few bikes, then measure them
* drop bars
* wide tires for comfort. 700x23 are too narrow, but some bikes don't allow to install anything wider
* a comfortable saddle
* eyelets for fenders and racks

This bike seems to be better suited for you among cheap Motobecanes.
http://bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/galaxy.htm

Totally agree with the saddle and drop bars and sizing (although a typical person's range can span 3 sizes or more). I also agree with the wide tires but more for utility than comfort. I often do 14 miles each way on my 23c tires and love them for the speedy feeling. But I want to mount something wider in the winter and my race bikes will not allow it. I personally find that you can mount fenders a miriad of ways and do not list eyelets as a high priority for doing so (p-clips work just fine). I use a comfortable backpack instead of racks.

Today, you can buy a sub-$200 mongoose piece of crap or you can buy an $1,800 mongoose road bike with carbon fiber frame from performance bike. They are very different offerings.
I wouldn't say that a $200 bike is a piece of crap. It has all standard Shimano components, a real crankset, and everything. It's just not a good choice for commuting because of the full suspension and heavy frame.

I wouldn't say that a $200 bike is a piece of crap. It has all standard Shimano components, a real crankset, and everything. It's just not a good choice for commuting because of the full suspension and heavy frame.

Fair enough and agreed. There is certainly a place for such a bike but long distance commuting is not it.

Especially when I have two wonderful used bikes that combined did not cost $200.

That being said, my brother in law's $200 full suspension bike is fun to kick around the neighborhood with the little kids. I just would not want to ride it for any real distance or attempt to do so at speed.

To be fair, you can still buy a $500 Mongoose bike, and you can buy it in Walmart:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5585806
I don't see why it's far from a decent mountain bike, except it's too heavy for commuting.

That's true, and Mongoose and Schwinn still both make nice bikes as well as department store fodder, it's just that the cheap ones are what you always see now. And I'll also admit that a $150 hardtail Walmart bike today is probably much better than a $150 mtb in the early '90s. I owned one of those and it was a huge pile of crap.

Look dude it boils down to money. If your trying to keep you bike budget under $300 then a Walmart bike like the Schwinn Varisty is their best in store bike. Is it the best or latest technology? NO, but who the hell cares? Especially if your wanting a bike for under $300! Where does the "better bike" syndrome end? IT DOESN'T! You could get a $1000 bike and still not have the latest and greatest technology. And some of that latest greatest technology is really not that great anyways since it involves lighter weight components that usually will fail sooner then mid-grade stuff.

I bought the Walmart Schwinn Varisty for my grand daughters 12th birthday last month and so far she's gone about 250 miles (yea!), and the only problems we've had was a one time spoke adjustment which I did, and the brakes were set too tight from Walmart, and one flat with no problems repairing such as too tight of rim etc. Otherwise it's been smooth sailing. Obviously 250 miles isn't a lot yet to report any real problems, but that's after 1 month and she's only 12. You can always upgrade any bike as time goes by when something breaks, and the same is true with the Varisty.

The derailleur system is old technology but the brakes are dual pivot design which is the latest technology while the GMC Denali model uses single pivot design that I thought wasn't even made anymore. BUT, just because a brake design is dual vs single pivot doesn't make for a bad brake, most of my bikes are single and I don't cry about their stopping abilities.

You mentioned you wouldn't upgrade a beater bike, will the Walmart be that? There are plenty of good upgrade components like the Shimano 105 series that are low in cost to do and are made very well. You can even get really good fairly light rims for about $250 for the set on sale. But I wouldn't do any upgrades until parts broke.

I bought the Walmart Schwinn Varisty for my grand daughters 12th birthday last month and so far she's gone about 250 miles (yea!)
Stop!
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4698938
This bike is available only in a Large Male size, which is 55cm. It's for a 5'9" or taller rider.
# Top tube: 55cm
# Seat tube: 55cm

It would've been better to choose a Female or small-size bike for your 12-year granddaughter. She probably stretches out a lot.

That's true, and Mongoose and Schwinn still both make nice bikes as well as department store fodder, it's just that the cheap ones are what you always see now.
That's right.

Basically, Schwinn in particular was a very well-respected name in American bikes for many decades. Then they went bankrupt, and got all their trademarks bought up by Pacific Cycle, which mostly makes Walmart bikes out of China.

Recognizing the value of the brand name, they continue to make high-quality Schwinn bikes, manufactured in Taiwan I think. And they probably get a lot of people to buy the crappy Walmart Schwinns who remember the high quality associated with the brand in the past.