Good luck on the appeal Joejack.:beer:

From what I'm reading on this thread Joejack is completely legal, and completely in the right in the interest of his own safety, in taking the lane in this situation according to the statute quoted in the OP.

I'm also reading a lot of people showing a bad case of cyclist inferiority syndrome.

Using a right turn only lane as a straight ahead lane isn't too bright. Particularly in heavier traffic when the chances of a right hook increase.

On a road with two same direction lanes motorists can change lanes to pass. It doesn't hurt them. If traffic is heavy, they can slow until they can change lanes.

I don't have the official paper work in my hands yet but as of this morning, my case was dismissed. The prosecutor initially offered the option of having me pay the original fine of $25 and dismissing the charges but my lawyer said that was not an option. After going over a few more details about the case though, she immediately changed her tune and dismissed the charges completely right there.

If you see a guy cycling around the DE/PA border today with a big sh!t-eating grin on his face, say hello :)

:beer:

I don't have the official paper work in my hands yet but as of this morning, my case was dismissed. The prosecutor initially offered the option of having me pay the original fine of $25 and dismissing the charges but my lawyer said that was not an option. After going over a few more details about the case though, she immediately changed her tune and dismissed the charges completely right there.

If you see a guy cycling around the DE/PA border today with a big sh!t-eating grin on his face, say hello :)

I take it then that you consider your victory worth a year of anxiety and lawyer fees?

I take it then that you consider your victory worth a year of anxiety and lawyer fees?

Can't we just be excited about a small moral victory? Albeit a fairly Pyrrhic one?

awesome !!

I don't have the official paper work in my hands yet but as of this morning, my case was dismissed. The prosecutor initially offered the option of having me pay the original fine of $25 and dismissing the charges but my lawyer said that was not an option. After going over a few more details about the case though, she immediately changed her tune and dismissed the charges completely right there.

If you see a guy cycling around the DE/PA border today with a big sh!t-eating grin on his face, say hello :)

Congratulations,
Way to stand your ground and fight for what's right. Hopefully that cop and others like him will be talked to by the prosecutor, and you or other like minded cyclists won't have to go through this type of thing again.
Bikesafer (www.bikesafer.blogspot.com)
Jeff

I take it then that you consider your victory worth a year of anxiety and lawyer fees?

Considering how much I ride, I would consider it worth it.

Congratulations Joe.

Considering how much I ride, I would consider it worth it.

Congratulations Joe.

I wasn't aware that Joe ever stopped riding, or even changed where or how he rode his bicycle. How does the dismissal of a ticket in a single traffic court change anything for either Joe or anyone else?

ILTB, what good would paying the fine have done?

ILTB, what good would paying the fine have done?

Would've gotten ILTB off your back?

ILTB, what good would paying the fine have done?

For you - avoiding lawyer fees and a year of anxiety, some of which I believe was caused by listening to the simplistic advice from some BF "legal" experts about the potential "good" that would/could come from the right outcome in traffic court.

For any/everybody else - nothing; which would be about the same amount of "good" that resulted from not paying.

Good job joejack. I applaud your effort in fighting this undeserved ticket, and would have done the same thing, since no laws were being broken at the time of your ticketing. It may be a small one, but this is still a win for cyclist rights.

Have you had any more incidents (or better yet, non-incidents) were officers watched you ride in the lane since?

Congratulations. You have a done a service for the common good of cyclists. In my dreams the officer that gave you the ticket in error and his colleagues will be on the receiving end of some 'corrective' training. :thumb:

Hopefully that cop and others like him will be talked to by the prosecutor...

:lol:

I'm impressed he was willing to admit he was wrong. Although I'm shocked that he could admit to being wrong and then write you a ticket for ... nothing.

Edit: Holy crap this thread is a year old, I need to read dates.

You have a DeathWish riding in the centre of the lane like that.

Provided you are going straight ahead and not turning, you should be riding as close the right hand broken lines as possible in the furthest lane to the right possible, so long as it's not a right turn filter lane.

It's not Rocket Science.

That scares drivers in the right turn only lane, and they slow down for you. And it should scare them, what if some dick comes screaming by you on the left and gives you three inches? It's quite possible you might adjust your position right into their lane.

Taking the lane isn't dangerous, I don't know why you say he has a death wish. Do drivers in your area carry fire arms and regularly use them during bouts of road rage? Or do they just drive with their eyes completely closed?

I'm impressed he was willing to admit he was wrong. Although I'm shocked that he could admit to being wrong and then write you a ticket for ... nothing.

Edit: Holy crap this thread is a year old, I need to read dates.

The wheels of justice do not always move quickly.

While the thread is old, the final result is new.

On a road with two same direction lanes motorists can change lanes to pass. It doesn't hurt them. If traffic is heavy, they can slow until they can change lanes.

Ya, but you'd think by their reactions, that you were pulling out their molars with a rusty pair of vice-grips.

getting a ticket thrown out of court does nothing for precedent; joe was approaching this as if it were a landmark case :roflmao:

how much did it cost you, joejack? factor in the hours of lost wages, cost of lawyer, etc....

getting a ticket thrown out of court does nothing for precedent; joe was approaching this as if it were a landmark case :roflmao:

how much did it cost you, joejack? factor in the hours of lost wages, cost of lawyer, etc....

Lost wages: $XXX
Lawyer fees: $X,XXX
Stickin' it to The Man: Priceless

-or-

When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eINqvPAKXBE

Wu-Tang!

For any/everybody else - nothing; which would be about the same amount of "good" that resulted from not paying.

Well I got a fair bit of entertainment value out of this thread.

getting a ticket thrown out of court does nothing for precedent; joe was approaching this as if it were a landmark case :roflmao:

how much did it cost you, joejack? factor in the hours of lost wages, cost of lawyer, etc....

The man has principles and a spine. You appear to have neither. Either give kudos where it is undeniably due or zip it up. Urinating on other peoples parades does not look smart or constructive.

Either give kudos where it is undeniably due or zip it up. Urinating on other peoples parades does not look smart or constructive.

Bek observed, correctly, that a victory "parade" is hardly warranted by a ticket dismissal that will have no effect on anyone else, anywhere, despite the best wishful thinking and kudos of a few BF legal dreamers.

But who needs a reason to party, eh? Let's celebrate!

I wasn't aware that Joe ever stopped riding, or even changed where or how he rode his bicycle. How does the dismissal of a ticket in a single traffic court change anything for either Joe or anyone else?

I don't think that he changed his behavior.

I recall that this occurred on a regular route. My understanding is that traffic officers often patrol the same areas. So in a direct way, beyond what Joe received in arguing the matter on principle, the dismissal should be helpful. More generally, I think that there will be a local effect. That is, LEOs talk to LEOs and cyclists talk to cyclists -- once in a while, LEOs converse with cyclists -- such that cases like this do have some impact on future behavior. Anecdotally, a similar event resulted in such discussion here. Of course, whether it results in any true changes is difficult if not impossible to assess.

EDIT: Sorry about the delay in response. Posting on A&S resulted in errors that I was unable to fix.

getting a ticket thrown out of court does nothing for precedent; joe was approaching this as if it were a landmark case :roflmao:

how much did it cost you, joejack? factor in the hours of lost wages, cost of lawyer, etc....

I'm surprised by the response. Would you have fought the ticket?

I'm surprised by the response. Would you have fought the ticket?

Proudly!

i'm curious how much it cost...

I don't think that he changed his behavior.

I recall that this occurred on a regular route. My understanding is that traffic officers often patrol the same areas. So in a direct way, beyond what Joe received in arguing the matter on principle, the dismissal should be helpful. More generally, I think that there will be a local effect. That is, LEOs talk to LEOs and cyclists talk to cyclists -- once in a while, LEOs converse with cyclists -- such that cases like this do have some impact on future behavior. Anecdotally, a similar event resulted in such discussion here. Of course, whether it results in any true changes is difficult if not impossible to assess.

EDIT: Sorry about the delay in response. Posting on A&S resulted in errors that I was unable to fix.

One possibility, if LEO's actually gather around to discuss traffic tickets that got dismissed, might be a specific effort to write tickets that will be sure to stick; especially if there is a feeling that the person ( a perceived wiseass) beat a previous ticket and was bragging that he stuck it to the "Man". That was not Joe's reaction on the this thread but some of his cheerleaders certainly could cause such a reaction.

i'm curious how much it cost...

Fought a ticket with an attorney two years ago, the cost was $75 for the attorney, but it was on first hearing and there were no court costs. We won and it helped my insurance rate. With an appeal, the cost would have probably tripled for the attorney, at least as I remember the fee schedule.

One possibility, if LEO's actually gather around to discuss traffic tickets that got dismissed, might be a specific effort to write tickets that will be sure to stick; especially if there is a feeling that the person ( a perceived wiseass) beat a previous ticket and was bragging that he stuck it to the "Man". That was not Joe's reaction on the this thread but some of his cheerleaders certainly could cause such a reaction.

I think that there is some effort given to avoid writing tickets that "don't stick". And yes, LEOs are people too; but my experience is that most simply want to do a good job.

For you - avoiding lawyer fees and a year of anxiety, some of which I believe was caused by listening to the simplistic advice from some BF "legal" experts about the potential "good" that would/could come from the right outcome in traffic court.

For any/everybody else - nothing; which would be about the same amount of "good" that resulted from not paying.

ILTB, you've offered plenty of sound advice in this thread, even if I didn't always take it. Bek, take notes.

As invisiblehand noted, the ticket was given to me on a road that I travel daily for my commute, though the intersection where I was ticketted is not one I usually go through (not that it's any different than the intersections I do use daily). The main "good" that I saw coming out of fighting this ticket was having a quick and easy way of ending the inevitable next discussion with the police about riding in the travel lanes on this road. As I noted earlier in this thread, I had previous discussions with police on this road about the same thing though they did not ticket me for anything.

As to my out of pocket costs, I don't have an exact cost at this point. To date, my costs have been $0. Lost wages: I'm salary. Lawyer fees: A local lawyer has defended cyclists in similar cases and while he was not available for my court date, he had another lawyer in his firm do him/me a favor and handle the case at no cost to me. Court costs: Because I did not have a trial, I'm not sure if the courts will cash my checks that I wrote for the appeal. I wrote them almost 8 months ago and they haven't been cashed yet. I'll be watching my bank account to see if they hit in the next few weeks. Assuming they do, I'm out about $135.

Back to the "good", I do plan on discussing the matter with the state police and DE Bicycle Council once all of the paperwork is finalized. As Steve Goodridge noted a while back in this thread, road designs such as this one don't do cyclists any favors. They tend to promote higher speeds and motorists (even the lawyer who took my case) view the road as more of a freeway than a surface street. Ideally (though this is likely a pipe dream) the road could be configured to be more cyclist friendly by allowing cyclists to use the width available on this road without unintentionally breaking the law (going straight from a right turn only lane). I'd also like to address the fact that Delaware has no laws allowing cyclists to legally travel on the shoulder yet the bike council and the police both promote/suggest that it is the only place for cyclists to be. I'm personally not comfortable with the possible legal conflicts that result from that contradiction.

And thanks to everyone else who offered support/advice/humourous comments during this thread. It was certainly worth my while, for many different reasons, to post about this incident here.

One possibility, if LEO's actually gather around to discuss traffic tickets that got dismissed, might be a specific effort to write tickets that will be sure to stick; especially if there is a feeling that the person ( a perceived wiseass) beat a previous ticket and was bragging that he stuck it to the "Man". That was not Joe's reaction on the this thread but some of his cheerleaders certainly could cause such a reaction.

Of all the things I could have potentially been cited for, the AFRAP law seems to be the most difficult one to fight. Other options:

impeding traffic: only applicable to motor vehicles in DE
under minimum speed: no posted minimum speed limit
slow moving vehicle to turn off roadway: only applicable on one lane each way roadway
unsafe speed: only applies to going too fast
reckless driving: I was in my lane, going straight, under the speed limit, and using lights and reflectors after dawn

I list the above because these have all been brought up during discussions with LEO's. The only one I was never able to convince any of them about was the AFRAP law. Who knows though. Maybe they'll dig up some obscure law and I'll get stuck with the same judge again.

Have you had any more incidents (or better yet, non-incidents) were officers watched you ride in the lane since?

I ride from the edge of DE into PA for work. Since the ticket, I have had one more discussion in Delaware right after my ticket (officer actually pulled into the right turn lane as I was slowing for a light to tell me I was impeding traffic) and two in PA (on a different road). On Naamans Road, I recently was making the left turn into my neighborhood and negotiated my way across to the left turn lane from the right lane with a county cop behind me. Didn't hear anything from him.