Road Cycling - Shimano Ultegra 6500 vs. 105 group

What are the differences?? Is one better than the other? Most people are saying go with the 105 group and save the money and go with a nice wheelset.....

What do you think??

-Dan the Man-

I agree! I'm the one that stated it :)

Just to clarify what Ockey is asking, he is looking at get the ultegra group with a Sora hubs and Mavic Open rims..

Difference between 105 and Ultegra main one is weight.. possibly slightly smoother shifting with ultegra.

IMHO, 105 may look and possibly feel slightly cheaper. The shifting may not be as smooth, quick and light as with say Dura-Ace but it will be hard to disitnguish from the higher end group. However for all practical purposes and for the short term (read: at leas 5 years), it will most likely perform on par with Ultegra and Dura-Ace. It is by no means a low-performing group. It's probably the best bang-for-buck road group in existance actually. In the long run, Ultegra will probably outlast 105 but by then you'll be having upgrade lust anyways even if it's just to another 105-level group. I will agree with others that say wheels will make more of an impact with regards to comfort and performance than any slight differences between 105 and Ultegra. If it came to prioritising my budget, I'd pop for the better wheels.

Ultegra is no doubt better than 105, but the differences are going to be fairly small. In terms of durability, both are going to last longer than you will most likely want to keep the group (unless you are a riding big mileage). I'm still riding an old bike that has Shimano RSX on it, that's probably a good 8yrs old and has taken a lot of miles on it and it still works very well.

In you case you are on a budget, otherwise sure, we would all like to be on Dura-Ace or Campy Record with Zipp 303's, but that ain't gonna happen right now. In your case I'd probably go down to 105 and spend the bucks on a nice wheel-set.

For instance here's your "wish list";
2001 Specialized Allez Sport Frame - $330
Mavic CXP22 / Shimano 2200 Road Wheelset - $110
MICHELIN AXIAL CARBON ROAD TIRE - $70
Continental Road Tube 700x18-25c - $10
Nashbar Quick Release Ti Skewers - $25
Shimano Ultegra Triple Crankset - $130
Shimano Ultegra 6500 Bottom Bracket - $30
Shimano Ultegra 6503 Front Derailleur - $25
Shimano Ultegra 6500 Rear Derailleur - $40
Shimano Ultegra 9 speed Cassette - $35
Shimano Dura Ace / XTR 9 SPD Chain - $25
Ritchey Pro Road Handlebar - $50
Nashbar Deluxe Handlebar Tape - $6
Ultegra 9 Speed STI Levers - $150
Shimano Ultegra 6500 Brake Calipers - $70
Northwave Fuel Mountain Shoe 41-48 Blk/Y $70
Ritchey Pro Logic ATB Pedal 4 degrees of rotation Blk $40
Louis Garneau Bikini-V Helmet large Blk/Y $60

For a total of $1276 - or let's say $1300 just to cover any small things you may have missed.

I would do;
2001 Specialized Allez Sport Frame 52cm Y/Blk $330
Northwave Fuel Mountain Shoe 41-48 Blk/Y $70
Ritchey Pro Logic ATB Pedal 4 degrees of rotation Blk $40
Louis Garneau Bikini-V Helmet large Blk/Y $60

105 Build Kit special for $600 - includes (PM me if you want to know where the deal is, don't remember the forum rules on posting such ads);
Shimano 105 9spd derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI levers
Shimano 105 brake calipers
Shimano 105 crank
Shimano 105 b.b.
Shimano 105 cassette
Shimano chain
choice of 105 headset or Cane Creek aheadset
Mavic Cosmos clincher wheels(24 spokes front, 28 spokes rear)
TTT Forma handlebar
TTT The stem
Selcof seatpost
Selle Italia gel saddle
Conti Ultra 3000 tires
Cork handlebar wrap.

Total here is $1100 - and I'm sure you could negotiate a little savings to drop the items you don't need.

With the almost $300 saved you can buy another wheelset for training (Nashbar has a Mavic MA40/Ultegra wheelset for $140), or a higher end wheelset like the Mavic Cosmic Elite's. You can pick up a higher end brain bucket (nothing like keeping a cool head). Pick up those clip on Aero bars. Pick up a real road shoe along with the mountain shoes for when you really want to ride. There are a lot of possibilities here.

Andrew

I have Ultegra and 105 on my three road bikes, all triples and 12-27cassettes and can't tell the difference between the two with Ultegra and the one with 105. Steve

Originally posted by Ajay213
105 Build Kit special for $600 - includes (PM me if you want to know where the deal is, don't remember the forum rules on posting such ads);
Shimano 105 9spd derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI levers
Shimano 105 brake calipers
Shimano 105 crank
Shimano 105 b.b.
Shimano 105 cassette
Shimano chain
choice of 105 headset or Cane Creek aheadset
Mavic Cosmos clincher wheels(24 spokes front, 28 spokes rear)
TTT Forma handlebar
TTT The stem
Selcof seatpost
Selle Italia gel saddle
Conti Ultra 3000 tires
Cork handlebar wrap.

Total here is $1100 - and I'm sure you could negotiate a little savings to drop the items you don't need.

With the almost $300 saved you can buy another wheelset for training (Nashbar has a Mavic MA40/Ultegra wheelset for $140), or a higher end wheelset like the Mavic Cosmic Elite's. You can pick up a higher end brain bucket (nothing like keeping a cool head). Pick up those clip on Aero bars. Pick up a real road shoe along with the mountain shoes for when you really want to ride. There are a lot of possibilities here.

Andrew

hey Andrew, I am convinced that alot of people say get the 105 group with a great set of wheels. So I will. I already have the CF fork and Selle Italia seat/seatpost. Check the pics in my signature. Also I already have a headset. So I'll keep that for now... and maybe replace them if needed, but probably not.

If you look at my other post... Building a Specialized Allez Sport (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32801&perpage=15&pagenumber=3) I am thinking about the Mavic Cosmic Elite wheelset.

So check my "wish list" (http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dschilli/bike.html) for updates. Thanks

-Dan the Man-

There is real world difference between 105 and ulterga accept finish, same material spec and function. In my opinion, I don't care for the black finish on the new 105, I would opt for the silver, We have had a problem with the black scratching off and the silver scratches make the parts look old quick. The 105 is offered in silver.

Originally posted by mrfix
We have had a problem with the black scratching off and the silver scratches make the parts look old quick.

Very true..... the black would look better on my bike, but like you say over time, it will chip off. Thanks

-Dan the Man-

I was worried about the black scratching off but it has held up great after a couple of falls. It looks so much better on some colors its worth the fear of scratching.

Originally posted by ockey53
the black would look better on my bike

Dan the Man, shame on you. Shiny drivetrain components always look better. On anybody’s bike.

Originally posted by Bruco
Dan the Man, shame on you. Shiny drivetrain components always look better. On anybody’s bike.

Not the F65.

Originally posted by Feltup
Not the F65.

Of course, there are always exceptions to a rule. Even if it’s a good rule. :)

Progress is sometimes hard to come to terms with... :D

btw- the 105 crankset is lighter than the ultegra

Originally posted by khuon
IMHO, 105 may look and possibly feel slightly cheaper. The shifting may not be as smooth, quick and light as with say Dura-Ace but it will be hard to disitnguish from the higher end group. However for all practical purposes and for the short term (read: at leas 5 years), it will most likely perform on par with Ultegra and Dura-Ace. It is by no means a low-performing group. It's probably the best bang-for-buck road group in existance actually. In the long run, Ultegra will probably outlast 105 but by then you'll be having upgrade lust anyways even if it's just to another 105-level group. I will agree with others that say wheels will make more of an impact with regards to comfort and performance than any slight differences between 105 and Ultegra. If it came to prioritising my budget, I'd pop for the better wheels.

I have heard this one before, but I have never heard anyone actually testing the groups for relative durability.

I don't think that most people would notice any difference between 105, ultegra and Dura-Ace on a durability basis. I have just about 40,000 miles on a set of 105 components and it is still performing. I think that 40,000 miles is a lot more use then most people will ever look for in a bike. So I would hazard a guess that any of these groups will last longer then one will keep the bike anyway.

Originally posted by khuon
but by then you'll be having upgrade lust

Oh I'm so happy I'm not the only one...thought my wife was right and really did need therapy...

God Bless a new piece of equipment!!!:D

R

Originally posted by ockey53
What are the differences?? Is one better than the other? Most people are saying go with the 105 group and save the money and go with a nice wheelset.....

What do you think??

-Dan the Man-
Yes,go with the 105 and get a nice wheelset.Can we stop now?

Dan,

I also ride a Specialized Allez. Mine's an M2. I love it. You seem to be on a good track on getting your components. The best thing you can do for yourself is to find a buddy who has experience in building bikes. I do 90% of my own work and it is critical to know the tricks of the trade. Even though I have been my own mechanic for a few years, I still discuss the subject with riders who have more time on the road than I do. The 105 group will do you well. Saves you green backs and still provides quality. Both my bikes have 8 speed clusters (Cannondale and Specialized). I can pull a good pace line with them so check the price difference between the 8 and 9 speed.

Load a photo when you get it finished. We'd like to see the finished art work.

Good luck

CycleFrog