Stronger Frame: Specialized Hardrock v. Gary Fisher Opie

[Maxximum]

Which do you think has a stronger and more durable frame? The Specialized Hardrock Sport with the A1 Aluminum...probably just the weak temper T0, v. the Gary Fisher Opie, looks like T0 6061 aluminum as well.
Any idea about how strong the chainstay and the seatstays are for each? Strong against high torque (climbing) and big drops and climbing and dropping?

Specialized Hardrock Sport
http://www.mikesbike.com/images07/HRportSatBlkStm.jpg

Gary Fisher Opie
http://www.mcphailscycle.com/documents/product_thumb_81.jpg

[Maxximum]

This is a close-up of the seat stay and the chain stay of the Gary Fisher Opie. For some reason the large welding seems to be weaker than if it were one piece. Does this seem right to anyone?
http://i11.tinypic.com/52d3v5w.jpg

[norco_rider77]

ya, cuz it not part of the actual peice of metal. then again, a submerged arc welder can weld huge peices of steel together, and the strongest part is the weld. i geuss it depends, but that area would definitly be weaker on the frame, because there is some very small tubing there. but remember, these bikes arent designed for big drops, theyre XC bikes. I have a Norco Katmandu, and i consider it a ouber XC bike, because i have used it for some trials, dj, and it has taken a 10 foot drop (extrememly smooth though)

[Maxximum]

ya, cuz it not part of the actual peice of metal. then again, a submerged arc welder can weld huge peices of steel together, and the strongest part is the weld. i geuss it depends, but that area would definitly be weaker on the frame, because there is some very small tubing there. but remember, these bikes arent designed for big drops, theyre XC bikes. I have a Norco Katmandu, and i consider it a ouber XC bike, because i have used it for some trials, dj, and it has taken a 10 foot drop (extrememly smooth though)

So you are saying that that particular weld is actually stronger than the actual tubing? That is fantastic! :beer:
Thanks for your insight, as I don't really know a lot about welding, just that the metal is molten, as well as a part of the metal pieces and the filler/weld puddle.

[Maxximum]

Thought I would post this up too. The Spec. Hardrock has two sets of holes, one at the derailleur area where the seat stay meets the chain stay, and another on the seat stay. They are used for mounting racks and fenders, they also weaken the frame=holes=weaker frame
Can anyone confirm? Or should I bash the hell out of a Hardrock and hope for the worst?
http://i10.tinypic.com/4ze2fqu.jpg

[Peterpan1]

To say the weld is stronger than the surounding tube is not the same thing as saying the welded tube is stronger than a tube without a weld. A built structure certainly can be stronger than a simple tube, and any one of them might well be strong enough which is all you need.

I'm not sure what I am looking at here, there is a concern about the stays to drops joint? Because the weld bead is large?

There is no way to just eyeball one or the other and say which is stronger in complex conditions. One thing that argues for the top one is the stays angle is less acute (angle larger at axle), which makes for a better truss effect. and there is a gusset which creates a mini triangle at the joint area.

I would probably buy either without any concern, but then I am not a bike thrasher.

[Maxximum]

but then I am not a bike thrasher.

but you are logical and that counts for a lot in my book!

your comments are appreciated kindly.